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by Tom Gerace
Member since:
August 31, 2005

Talk to Tom: Improving the New Gather (Redux)

April 15, 2008 04:32 PM EDT (Updated: April 18, 2008 01:41 PM EDT)
views: 670 | rating: 9.9/10 (69 votes) | comments: 269
Friends-

There were so many fantastic comments on the last piece (252 last I looked), that I thought it made sense to start a fresh article for the conversation itself (otherwise people would have to scroll through pages to find our dialog). 

Before I begin, I want to thank you all again for caring enough to share your perspective.  That kind of commitment to Gather, the quality of the interaction on the site, and the constructive conversation we have here about the future all make Gather an exceptional place. 

As background for our conversation, I thought it might be helpful to share the vision we have for Gather and some of the things we have learned in our journey so far.   This will help put our recent upgrade in context and allow us to have a better conversation this afternoon.

One of our key learnings since we first launched the alpha version of the Gather site, way back in late 2005, was that people discover things socially and engage in more meaningful dialog when they do.  What do I mean?  Some of the information we consume is information that we actually seek out.  We might google it.  We might scan a newspaper looking for a few key areas of interest.  We might visit wikipedia or other sites with specific questions as well.

But much (perhaps most) of the new things we learn come from the people around us.  We learn from meetings at work, casual conversations with friends, or discussions with family over dinner.  We hear a story on public radio and mention it at the coffee machine, forward an article to a group of peers that might be interested, or even hand a physical newspaper or magazine clipping to a friend we know might like it.  And sometimes, when we want information we can really trust, we reach out to the people we know (our offline social networks) and ask them what they know, or who they know that might point us in the right direction.

This is all social discovery.  It is made much more powerful, over time, through the careful (albeit often unconscious) selection of who we keep in our lives as friends and colleagues.  Over the course of many years, we form relationships with people that we respect and trust.  They come to know us well (our likes and dislikes, our passions and hot buttons) as we come to know them.  And we begin to share, with each person we know, the things that we know will interest them.

In the early days of Gather, we discovered that a very early version of the "Friend Feed" we just launched created tremendous social discovery and learning.  People would share ideas and we would be sure their friends knew.  Interested friends would respond and we'd pass that response to the friends of those friends.  And in a matter of hours, great ideas (the best conversations on the site) would cascade(tm) through the network to reach hundreds or thousands of people.  Many of them would be engaged in dialog with the people they know and trust.  When it works, it's powerful stuff.

At the same time, we recognized that we were failing to deliver an experience to a broad segment of our members. There are a lot of Gatherers who do not want to create articles or share images every day.  They want to stay in touch with the people they care about.  They want to share and stay connected with them.  They want to interact.  But they wanted a lower threshold for doing that.  Some of our new technology is, therefore, meant to engage an underserved segment of our member base. 

Last fall, we set-out to build a better social engine for Gather, one that enables social discovery/sharing as I described above.  We created a platform that allows information to cascade through trusted circles of friends. And we added features (like status and pings) that let people keep in touch and interact with folks they know more playfully.

We launched the first part of this social platform in this technology a month ago when we allowed you to create friend sets and share with specific friends.  We launched the second piece last week, when we enabled feeds. 

We recognize, from the conversation over the past four days, that we have some work to do to improve this experience.  I am confident that it will, when we are done, be a much better one for the community.  It will take us some time to get there, but with your help we will build a Gather that meets the needs of a diverse membership, allows social discovery and sharing, and allows you to see the people and things you care about on Gather quickly and easily. 

With this context, let me start to respond to thoughts posted on my previous article.  I'll do my best to keep up today (but remember...you have me out numbered!)


To join the conversation, here are some helpful tips:

1) To see new comments and keep up with the discussion, you will need to periodically refresh your screen.  You may refresh your view by using the refresh button on your browser, or the F5 key on your keyboard, or through the Ctrl+R key (on Windows) or CMD+R (on Mac) key combination.

 
2) Once you have posted a comment to the conversation, refresh your screen (see above). Don't worry about accidental double-posting of comments, as Gather technology prevents doing so without a screen refresh between posts.  This will ensure that you can more quickly "chime in" with your thoughts.

Expand Tags: release, team gather, gather, upgrade, tom, tom gerace, ceo chat, privacy, feeds, profiles, pings, status, preferences, filtering, social connection, social relevance, relevance
Expand To Groups: improve.gather.com, The Gather Help Desk
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Comments: 269

Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 4:33pm EDT
Thanks again, everyone, for joining me today. I have been reviewing your many thoughts and look forward to our conversation.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 4:35pm EDT
First, a word on my approach today. With more than 250 comments (some with overlapping themes), it seemed to make sense to respond to general themes first, then move into any specifics I may have missed.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 4:37pm EDT
One of the key themes I saw, from members including Apryl L., Kris M., Priscilla (wishing I was in Costa Rica), was that the site felt too cluttered and complicated. The new feeds seemed to make the page too complex, particularly under the big navigation we have on top of the page.

I agree and so does our product team. We are already working on a release to address simplify the site navigation and the look and feel of key pages on Gather. Several hundred of you have participated in an exercise to help us with this simplification, explaining how you might "bucket" some of the key things you do on the website. We look forward to creating a simpler Gather for you in the future.
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 4:38pm EDT
Thanks for publishing this, Tom. Let me read and get back with a question.
kitchenMage (wizard of flour and chocolate) Apr 15, 2008, 4:39pm EDT
quick side question: "cascade(tm)" - are you seriously trademarking 'cascade' or did you just put it in to see if we're paying attention?
Beth H. Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
Looking forward to following this discussion. Have nothing new to add, since I've commented elsewhere.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
Hi karie anne, GREMS V., Heather W. and those of you who commented on a desire to focus on content versus social activity.

As I mention in my article above, one of our goals in this upgrade to respond to a segment of our members who were having a difficult time keeping in touch with the people on Gather who mean the most to them. We also wanted to make it easier for people who wanted to bring their friends and family to Gather to keep in touch with them once they were on the site. Based on member feedback in the fall (particularly from those who were engaged, but left Gather over time), we thought it important to strike a different balance between social connections and content publishing. We also knew they wanted some fun, light ways to interact without the heavy investment of writing an article. Status updates and pings were meant to do this.

That said, for many who joined Gather to share their ideas and discuss them, we now realize that status updates and pings may get in the way. I am exploring a number of alternatives to help you see just those things you care about in your feeds with our team.
Connie C. Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
I honestly believe that with a few adjustments that the new upgrade will be great. But it does require a few adjustments.
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
I'm glad you feel the new feeds make the site feel and look too cluttered - that was definitely a big part of what a lot of people felt needed changing.

Also, the outside email notifications that people receive or can receive are INFINITELY more helpful than the feeds.

Some of us also feel besides clutter is that the FEEDs trivialize our pages.

I am glad you said you look forward to creating a simpler Gather in the future.

Do you or can you possibly envision, enabling Feeds optional and enabling pings to be private?

That is such a BIG issue of what so many were talking about.

Facebook enabled feeds optional within a short time of their having instituted those a couple of years ago.
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
there was no way to indicate, on that folder thing (not that I finished it, but ...), how important comment counts are in determining where to go. I seriously want them BACK.
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
Hello Tom, I am first I think, Are you going to help us be able to get around better, without all this feed stuff, telling about everyone's comments to others. I personally don't like it or need it, I liked the "old" gather , because it was more simple and easier to navigate. I went along with the pings and other updates, but changing our home page, so I don't even know where I am, is awful. I don't think it is because of my years either Tom, there are many much younger than I am having trouble getting around, my comments have dropped off, and I can't find my friends to comment on either, can we made some compromises here, let those that want the feed turn it on, and those like me that hate it, turn it off, and just have our homepages, with our profiles and pings, I can't even find my pings now.
Kimberly Ripley Apr 15, 2008, 4:42pm EDT
What I truly miss is the ability to click on My Gather and find all of my friend's most recent articles. It was an easy way to keep up with, read, and comment on everyone's posts. Now I find it confusing, with no set way to keep up with regular articles on a daily basis. I feel like I'm missing a lot of good reading.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:44pm EDT
What kind of a time frame would any alternatives take? The current Gather isn't going to keep people interested for very long -- all the people I saw over the weekend who kept asking how to redeem their points were suggestive of an old-fashioned run on a bank, and I am not saying that to criticize them.
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 4:47pm EDT
I used to like seeing what my friends posted when I visited my home page too, thank you for reminding me of that Kimberly, I know I am missing out on lots of articles, and people are missing mine. Just real determined people find you, and I them, shouldn't be work, should be comfortable and enjoyable, like it was.
Laura Cushing Apr 15, 2008, 4:47pm EDT
Hi Tom,

I hope that no matter what happens, we get to keep the Spotlight feature. I've really been waiting for that one for a long time, and I love it. =)

Refreshing and reading along,
--L
Andrea "slackermom" R. Apr 15, 2008, 4:47pm EDT
The 500 item limit on the feed is a problem. I can't describe it as well as Janna R. did, but it is far too small when that 500 items includes pings, friends made, status changes, etc. It fills up so fast that if one is not able to check in at Gather several times a day, content will have already scrolled off.
Bill D. Apr 15, 2008, 4:48pm EDT
I see more and more content coming in with my feed. Causing me to click around alot more. 'My Gather' is definitely better and can handle all the things that my connections throw at it, unlike before.

Seeing events in the feed that users have updated their profile or status is pretty cool. It's almost like you see what that person is thinking at that exact time. I do like that. I notice I interact more with my connections than just a select few like before. Now I can see what everyone is up to and stay up to date with new things.

Good Job. Gonna take some time to get used to the new layout. Guess I will just have to spend more time on Gather ;)
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Apr 15, 2008, 4:49pm EDT
"we thought it important to strike a different balance between social connections and content publishing."

The thing that attracted me to Gather in the first place was that you'd achieved that balance in almost exactly the way I wanted. It was what separated the site from countless others. I can understand if you're trying to broaden Gather's appeal, but I don't see value in it for me.
René Allen Apr 15, 2008, 4:49pm EDT
I have to agree with Elsie on being able to find your way around Gather now. It is frustrating. And, Elsie is right, it has nothing to do with age.
J. P. Apr 15, 2008, 4:49pm EDT
Hi Tom! You look young & sharp as usual.

Maybe by just giving us option which kind of page we want to use, the classic one or the new one, Gather can address the needs between the two groups (family oriented members & material oriented members).
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:49pm EDT
Also, how many people are chosen to participate in "exercises," how do you choose them, and why have none of us heard any good words about Hawthorne from them? So many of us interact with one another, even without connecting, that one would think we'd run into them on the site.
Kay M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:49pm EDT
Tom you said "We look forward to creating a simpler Gather"

The way to make Gather simpler and more enjoyable for all is to put it back the way it was last Thursday.

You also said that there are gatherers who do not want to share articles or images but simply want to stay in touch.
That is what i have an email account for. I see no reason to come to Gather to "stay in touch"
Chris Carlisle Apr 15, 2008, 4:50pm EDT
It will take us some time to get there

Don't be surprised if some people aren't willing to wait. I'm not saying I'm one of them (currently on the fence, I suppose), but the recent upgrade has made the site quite cumbersome and not at all user friendly or conducive to the free exchange of ideas, articles and communication as you allude to above.

What's to stop Gather members from finding another site in the interim?
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:50pm EDT
Tom, I am confused here -- are you going to address the concerns we brought up last night on the previous thread, or are you primarily taking questions today?
CC Miranda the artrat (or am i?) Apr 15, 2008, 4:51pm EDT
the announcement of who friended who, and the resultant comments i've been reading from people saying they can't believe so and so befriended this person and things were better when we didn't know that seems aweful high school like to me.

it was that same attitude that made me not speak to anyone that i went to high school with and vice versa due to pack mentality and the inability to stand up to the pressure of friends.

besides taking up much of the space allowed in our feeds, i think you are only asking for further dissention in your ranks of gather members and eventual mass migration to somewhere else not so juvenile.
Vivian A. Apr 15, 2008, 4:52pm EDT
Two words: Design Nightmare.

The feeds shouldn't be the top layer, the first thing we see on MY Gather, it should be a subordinate tab with member generated content restored to the top layer.

This is a main complaint and what everyone wants most. A members page should be an introduction to who they are, not the chaos swarming around them.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 4:52pm EDT
I read carefully concerns expressed by members like Danielle S. and Stephanie B. regarding privacy. They were worried about their activities on Gather being shown in a single place (on their new profile pages), even if they might be public elsewhere on the site.

First, let me make sure that everyone is aware of how the current system works after changes we made a in early March. In March, with our Guthrie release, Gatherers could begin share their lives with the people they want to in the ways that they want to, using friend sets. Since March, you have been able to group your friends into sets (matching however you think of your world). You have then been able to share articles, images, and videos with everyone on Gather, or just certain sets of friends.

With this upgrade, we built upon these recent features. If you share an article (or image or video) with a particular friend set and spotlight it, only that friend set can see that article in your spotlight section. That article appears only in the feeds of those people that you shared it with as well. And it will show in your profile feed only if the person visiting it has the right to see that article, too. The same is true for comments made on the item you shared.

Ok, that's where we are today. That said, we understand that you want more control over where things appear. Enhancements we are exploring include:

1) allowing you to display the feed on your profile page to just certain friend sets (or to no one at all), but prevent others from seeing it;

2) allowing you to remove activities from your feed and, when you do, removing those activities from the Friend Feeds of the people you are connected to as well; and

3) allowing you to make pings and or status updates visible to only certain friend sets.

If you had to pick one or two of these alternatives, what would best match your needs?
Andrea "slackermom" R. Apr 15, 2008, 4:52pm EDT
I would also like to still have the option of viewing my old Articles for Me page. That is the best way to catch up on what your people have published if you've been absent from Gather for any length of time.

I do like the feed for certain things but it won't be much help next month when I return from being out of state for a wedding. I'll have to visit each individual profile to catch up after that as things stand now.
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 4:52pm EDT
I am very sad to see that some people (whose work I enjoy) have already decided to leave
Janet Somewhere Up On The Mount Apr 15, 2008, 4:53pm EDT
Hi Tom,
Connie address friends sets. That should help a lot of people.
Just stopped by for support and rate ya a ten.
Have to make dinner.
Peace
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:53pm EDT
And Chris Carlisle is exactly right -- I am afraid our patience has been sorely tried over the weekend, so I would expect to lose quite a few members producing revenue for the site unless these issues are addressed as quickly as they were created.
Mary G. Apr 15, 2008, 4:53pm EDT
My concern is the large number of pings and who is now friends with whom and I didn't join this group for that information. I'm missing a lot of good articles that just disappear before I can visit the site.

Normally, I am working during the day and can see today there are many great articles during the day. The evening has a lot of pinging over and over again.
Lune Wolfsong Apr 15, 2008, 4:54pm EDT
I would choose these two:

2) allowing you to remove activities from your feed and, when you do, removing those activities from the Friend Feeds of the people you are connected to as well; and

3) allowing you to make pings and or status updates visible to only certain friend sets.
Wilma M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
I agree with Kay M. Gather WAS simpler as recently as last week. After Hawthorne arrived, it is cluttered with a lot of irrelevant info constantly in my face. I wouldn't leave Gather completely, but if it stays like this, I will be spending a lot less time here. I know I am missing a lot of articles as the friend feed fills so quickly and the older articles drop into oblivion.
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
None of the above; is that an option?
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
Are you just listening again Tom, as Kris said, or are you going to comment back this go around? If it is just going to be us asking or leaving remarks, well I have said what I wanted to, well more may come to me, but no since in sitting here for an hour, I could be out hunting down a friend I havn't been able to find on the new Gather, this is really how I am feeling right now.
Laura Cushing Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
2) I would like to be able to remove things from my feed- that'd solve the problem I was noticing where deleted articles and comments show up in the feed.
Tina (a slightly smaller Spanky) B. Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
The 500 item limit on the feed is a problem. I can't describe it as well as Janna R. did, but it is far too small when that 500 items includes pings, friends made, status changes, etc. It fills up so fast that if one is not able to check in at Gather several times a day, content will have already scrolled off.
Andrea R., Apr 15, 2008, 4:47pm EDT


Exactly what Andrea said. I don't care about the pings and who made friends and all that garbage. When I am having to weed through all of that to find the articles that the people I want to keep in touch with have written, that's way more trouble than I want to go through and I won't go through it.

It's not worth it.
Vivian A. Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
Presently MY Gather has nothing to do with me, but everyone else. Their is a conflict between what the page promises and what it delivers.
Can you solve this financial tsunami ? ?. Apr 15, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
Hi Tom you mentioned in this "Talk to Me: Gather CEO Chat March 11" the following :

" Flit- We have figured-out a legal solution to points distribution internationally. We now need to make systems changes to match some of our legal and financial guidelines. Prior to doing so, I want to be sure we have the system really working like it should (it's best not to open-up a patient twice...the same applies to technology systems). "

Can you please discuss or tell a little about this system or programme ?
From when this system will be implemented ? - Can you please give an expected time period as when it will start ?

It will be also better if you can let us know as how this system will look like !

Thank you !
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris Apr 15, 2008, 4:56pm EDT
Waiting 15 minutes for our articles to post is completely unacceptable.

I see a lot of people don't like the pings. I diabled mine when they were first introduced, so that's not an issue for me. I just wonder why the "disable" option couldn't be available on almost every feature? I think having the ability to control to some extent what "MY" home page looks like would help me to feel a lot better.

By the way, I am still upset that you did away with the Gather Guides. They were the ONLY way I ever got answers from Gather management.
Tina (a slightly smaller Spanky) B. Apr 15, 2008, 4:56pm EDT
And BTW, no one that I personally know from Gather was included in your "exercises". go figure.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:57pm EDT
Friend sets were suggested over the weekend as the key to all happiness for those of us unhappy with so much clutter on the inescapable "feed." Frankly that isn't a good enough answer. I don't want certain people to see my pings -- I don't want ANYONE to see them. I don't want to herd my friends into a dozen little subsets like groups of cattle for everything I might care to publish, and when I say this, understand that I've already made six or seven different sets. This is a lot of work for people who never asked for this particular change in the first place.

To be forthright, I and many others don't feel like WE should be the ones correcting this mess, because WE are not the ones who created it.
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Apr 15, 2008, 4:58pm EDT
Tom,

Hello. I ditto Kay M.'s statement, and hope along with a less busy page, that ping won't be visable.

If people want to be "social butterflies" that's fine, but that should be an option, and everyone should have the option to "opt out" if they so choose.

Thanks, Tom!
Ina ♥ Tagline Free Since September '09 ♥ Apr 15, 2008, 4:58pm EDT
All of the above. Plus, I'm missing so many articles if I have to be gone for more than a few hours. I can't go back several pages and see what my connections have written unless I go to their page and click on their articles.

My Gather page has lost its' intelligent feel. It's cluttered and adolescent.

I've spent less time here in the past few days than I ever have since I joined.
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 4:58pm EDT
Waiting 15 minutes for deleted comments/articles to disappear is even worse!
Linda K. Apr 15, 2008, 4:58pm EDT
To answer your question, Tom, I would choose these two:

2) allowing you to remove activities from your feed and, when you do, removing those activities from the Friend Feeds of the people you are connected to as well; and

3) allowing you to make pings and or status updates visible to only certain friend sets.
MaryAnne, Director of Member Services Apr 15, 2008, 4:58pm EDT
Hi Kris,
Tom's answers now are addressing the themes members shared in yesterday's article. Please stay tuned. He's going as quickly as he can.
Sue M. Apr 15, 2008, 4:58pm EDT
I agree with flit... "None of the above", Tom. If you aren't going to get rid of "the feeds," atleast take out the "who pinged who, who connected with who, stuff." And make the image icons bigger and add the image icon for comments, so we know "what" people are commenting on!! Thanks for listening...
Kimberly Ripley Apr 15, 2008, 4:59pm EDT
Articles for Me.....I think that's the name of the link I'm missing so much. It was a real convenience. Since its deletion I feel I'm neglecting the reading of my Gather friend's articles in a timely and organized manner. Any chance we can have this link reinstated?
Vivian A. Apr 15, 2008, 4:59pm EDT
Profile page, I am assuming you are referring to My Gather?

The first thing I want to see on my and someone else's namespace is that member's generated content. Feeds do not interests me at all.
Stephen Prosapio Apr 15, 2008, 5:00pm EDT
Tom,
First, thanks for posting your article and for conducting your live chat earlier than the 10 days that you mentioned on Friday. I called for (and was willing to personally go through with) a boycott of gather based on the attitude of you and your team that was on display in the original "Help.gather" articles. A friend notified me offline that you'd changed your mind and were listening prior to giving us 10 days to deal with the changes, so I'm back and I hope you ARE listening for real this time.

Next, I need to apologize for a couple comments I made about Jason. I'm not sure that he even saw them as I made them on a different article (which I mistakenly thought was pre-flagged) but I need to apologize to the members who saw my vulgar comments. I was so incensed with Jason's poor attitude and rude comments to people I consider friends and "online family" that had I been in person, vulgarity toward him would have been the least of his worries. Regardless, to anyone offended by my language on Friday, I apologize.

That said, it does nothing to excuse or negate his (and subsequently your) attitude displayed on Friday. I feel you and specifically Jason owe an apology to gather members at large as well as specific members for the patronizing, condescending and rude comments and "hit refresh and learn to deal with it" attitude. I know it's never easy to hear criticism, however there was no need to make snide comments to those protesting (but caring enough to try and voice their displeasure so that you may continue to earn our support) the poor product that was unveiled.

Next, in the future, you might consider conducting unbiased polls and surveys as to what members REALLY WANT, rather than what internal employees feel would be a good idea. As I mention in my boycott article (and I'm only slightly upset for "outing" Jennifer), not only could I not understand the "survey" you asked me to take, I expressed that directly to your employees and was told that she didn't really understand it either. That should signal to you a huge disconnect with your users!

I wish you well on your business endeavors. While I'll end my "boycott" (not that anyone followed me anyway), I'll be using gather significantly less until the wide array of issues that have already been expressed are corrected. In the meantime, I can use the positive features of your site to draw attention to my network to my blog where my articles CAN be seen and commented on without too much headache.

Ciao.
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 5:00pm EDT
I would do away with the feeds personally, they were always there if we chose to click on them, now they are smack in our face when we go to our page, no sense in goiing there now, I can't even find my pings. Tom, whoever designed this new upgrade didn't have what the people who use this site have in mind. We write, we comment, we socialize, I sometimes play games if I want to, but I can't find anyone lately, and I know they are having trouble finding me. Can you erase it?
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:02pm EDT
Jimmie and Andrea both brought up excellent points. The time lag in posting and/or commenting is unacceptable. I should not have to click ten or twelve times, making money for a site that has inconvenienced me, to find my own article. This wasn't the case as soon as a week ago -- what was never broken has been set on fire.

And as Andrea said, Articles for Me was all the tool any of us needed. There's no reason this couldn't be reinstated as an option, although as I've said, I've not met a soul who wouldn't prefer many old features to the new.

Also, the 500 item limit is a problem for us all and I cannot understand how anyone could have failed to foresee dissatisfaction with this and many of the other new features. Again, the time lapse in publishing is terrible.
J. P. Apr 15, 2008, 5:02pm EDT
If you had to pick one or two of these alternatives, what would best match your needs?

Tom, I'd like to have option to see recent articles, image, & videos in the same page, like the previous page before the upgrade.
Andrea "slackermom" R. Apr 15, 2008, 5:02pm EDT
I love the idea of Spotlight but won't find it very useful until I can truly spotlight my best content, which may well be over a year old.
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Apr 15, 2008, 5:03pm EDT
I don't think the feed metaphor works well as it's currently implemented and I don't think you'll be able to implement it in a way that's satisfactory. Custom personal page tailoring where users can choose from a cafeteria menu of features and filters might work.

Bringing back the subscription feature would be a big help.

Rather than try to improve the feed approach I suggest that you scrap it now before you have too much invested in it.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:04pm EDT
Thanks, MaryAnne.
Amy B. Apr 15, 2008, 5:04pm EDT
"But much (perhaps most) of the new things we learn come from the people around us. "

That's what brought me to Gather in the first place - being able to read articles from a very diverse group of people and to read (and partake) in the discussion and sharing of thoughts. I have read articles on topics I probably would have never sought out on my own because Gather brought it to me so easily. Before the upgrade I could go back to approximately 1500 articles that my friends had written over the past month if I had been away from Gather due to other commitments. But now, with my feeds being limited to 500 items, including those meaningless pings, status changes, etc., I am now lucky if my feed contains 20 articles. I can't watch my feed all day, so I know I am missing some great content now. I had an email about an article that one friend wrote, and if it wasn't for that email I would have never seen the article because it had already rolled of my feed. I came to Gather for the articles, and I have the friends that I do because I enjoy what they write, but now I am no longer getting the enjoyment of seeing what all they have written and feel like I'm being left out of a lot of interesting conversations. So, the site has become much less social for me - the opposite of what your upgrades intended.
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris Apr 15, 2008, 5:04pm EDT
Please, do something quick, Tom, we are bleeding... and medical attention is needed!
Wilma M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:04pm EDT
I miss the "Articles" and "Images" for me so much. I haven't even looked at images for about 3 days. Without going to each friend's page, I have not been able to keep up at all. I don't care for any of your options listed in your comment of 4:52 PM. I just want to have my page back to it's appearance of last week. All of this friend set stuff is a waste of time in my opinion. WE are supposed to do all of these things so we can try to keep up with our connections. We easily could do that LAST week without so much work on our part.
Marianne R. Apr 15, 2008, 5:04pm EDT
I'd like to know why you would build a release around a former segment of gather members who left. Do you think you can gain back a larger audience in them to replace the droves of current members who have recently left, plan to leave or will leave because of this upgrade?

I don't know of any of my 450 connections who particpated in your focus groups and beta tests. Did you go to My Space and Face Book and ask their members by accident?
John S. (arizona) Apr 15, 2008, 5:05pm EDT
I left comments on the other article as did many, so I'll wait to see how well you digest all that first before posting more.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:05pm EDT
I believe Nippy Katz just spoke for about 90% of your members when he said:

Rather than try to improve the feed approach I suggest that you scrap it now before you have too much invested in it.
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 5:05pm EDT
hmm...these choices...
Kimberly Ripley Apr 15, 2008, 5:06pm EDT
"Please, do something quick, Tom, we are bleeding... and medical attention is needed!
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris, Apr 15, 2008, 5:04pm EDT "

Brilliantly expressed! Ditto!
Andrea "slackermom" R. Apr 15, 2008, 5:06pm EDT
I too would like more filtering options for my feed. I know I can choose Article on the pull-down menu but I'd like to choose articles and comments. As it is, it's all or one.

And I'd like my choice to stay until I change it instead of having to reset it every time I reload the page.
Debby O. Apr 15, 2008, 5:07pm EDT
CC does have a point. I do not care who else my friends are friends with, why should I? This is not high school, my gosh I graduated 40 years ago, those times are way gone! I only care who my friends are, what other friends they have is entirely up to them! Are there that many teens on here to make you think that we need to know these things? I could care less about all of that, I just enjoy meeting people and making friends and learning new things from them! Now, I'm luck to even find them! My days of being part of a click or even caring to be has been gone for 40 years, and if any of my friends do not understand that then they are free to remove me as a friend, it makes no difference to me, this world is screwed up enough without worrying about who is friends with whom! Who gives a rats behind? I am on here to enjoy myself, not to fight with children! Sorry Tom darlin, but I just had to get that off my chest, this site is turning into something that it didn't start out as at all!
Ina ♥ Tagline Free Since September '09 ♥ Apr 15, 2008, 5:08pm EDT
Also, many of us have been asking for the option to just block certain members from seeing our activity for quite some time. A lot of the animosity on this site could be eliminated if this was addressed.

I look at this thread and I know nearly all of the people here. None of them were polled about Hawthorne. Who are all of these people? Where are they?
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:08pm EDT
It's your site. John O. is right. And without members as its customers, it will go out of business as surely as an awkwardly designed store with questionable customer service. I do not believe that Stephen, above, truly has anything to apologize for, but some of your staff do.
Sue M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:08pm EDT
Ditto Andrea R's comments...
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 5:09pm EDT
A number of people have commented and written to me personally about how some members of Team Gather treated them on the day after our launch. They felt that they were treated in a disrespectful or condescending way. I have reviewed these conversations in detail. I agree that our tone and approach were, at times, inappropriate. I am responsible for the actions of all of our team, including these. We fell short of our own standards that day and I apologize to all.

I want to explain, because you deserve an explanation. On Friday, Pam and I watched as our member services team was swamped by a tide of questions and reaction to the new release. We asked a few of the younger members of Team Gather to volunteer to help answer member questions and comments (something they don't normally do). Many of those comments were critical and at times, emotional. Finding that we disappointed a lot of you made for a pretty hard day.

Anyway, I know some of our folks who were answering questions that day weren't used to that role. Rushing to get answers out the door (and perhaps showing some of their own frustration around the initial reception), they came across quite differently from the good, caring people they are.

It is clear that the dialog made it seem like we didn't value your opinion or care appropriately about our members. We do care, a great deal, and that's why I think emotions ran a bit high. Again, I apologize. We will review our internal procedures before our next release and do better for all of you.
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris Apr 15, 2008, 5:09pm EDT
Here's a suggestion for future upgrades (and I have seen this done on other sites, so I know it is possible):

Post an article to ALL Gather members explaining what the changes will be and showing how things will look, and then give us time to take it out and play with it. Then, instead of having to gather comments and address concerns after the fact you might actually get the changes perfected before they are officially made!
Lainie - Just Lainie Apr 15, 2008, 5:10pm EDT
Thanks for hosting this "talk," Tom.

I know that most of the main concerns will be addressed by my fellow Gatherers... So, I'm only going to mention one thing - which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else yet... (By the way, this does not mean that I am in any way satisfied with Hawthorne.)

If I go to My Namespace (or the equivalent of what my namespace used to be), I can see my friends that recently signed on. But, on Classic Gather, we could see that on our My Gather pages as well. I would recommend that you put our friends on both...

It's really a minor thing but it was a feature I really liked. And, I do like that we can see more of our friends as opposed to the four we could see before.

That being said, I will let my friends have at it. : )
Amy B. Apr 15, 2008, 5:10pm EDT
I still have an issue with privacy. I can control my ping settings (even though I don't ping) but I can't control the ping settings of someone that I may ping. So, if I ping someone and say something private that is meant for that person only (I know, it's the internet and nothing is really private), that ping could still show up on everyone's screen. In my feed right now I'm seeing pings being sent by someone who is not one of my connections to people who are one of my connections. They're not even a connection of mine and yet I can see everything they say to people who are my connections.
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Apr 15, 2008, 5:11pm EDT
You want us to invite new member to Gathers. I have a hard enough time as it is now. I can just seeeeee the look on your faces as they see this new page, then ask me -- as they always do -- to help them navigate through it.

Uh-uh. NO!

I don't want to be bothered with it, and they'll pick THAT up.
They'll give up before they even get started.

Looking at the page makes me tired.

Solution: Give us the option of removing what is not important to us.
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris Apr 15, 2008, 5:12pm EDT
Thank you for apologizing and explaining, Tom. My respect for you has been restored through that simple act alone.

I think we will all get along better now.

Again, thanks.
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 5:12pm EDT
Oh yes, and as for the March update where we could separate or organize friends, whatever, I never used that feature, couldn't see why I needed it, but because it didn't interfere with my gather experience, tolerated it. I can't tolerate all these feeds
and things, they do interfere with my Gathering, don't know what else to say Tom.
George Corneliussen Apr 15, 2008, 5:12pm EDT
Tom ,
Why not establish a link to a web page that not only explains an upgrade when it happens, but also suggests to members of Gather how to utilize the site in the way that best suits them.
A quick scan of the "most discussed" articles clearly shows that the most comments are generated by chats and games. There's no problem with that, but those wishing to publish or read articles with "content" or connect to other members who publish or read "content" do not need all the bells and whistles that seem to be designed to service those who are only on Gather for social networking.
If the majority of Gathers members are here to chat and network then, by all means, gear the site toward them, but allow those who are here to publish content a way to work around all the networking hoops without having to jump through them every time they visit Gather.
If you do that everyone will be happy.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 5:12pm EDT
A number of members have mentioned that they love the spotlight. We are excited that that you are excited. Several have written that they want to spotlight older content.

Spotlighting older content is a great idea. I am talking to our product team about this request and hope we can implement this sometime soon.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:12pm EDT
Jimmie just made an excellent point. Why not have a two- or three-hour preview for rollouts like these? That way people we actually know and speak with will be able to test-drive a site that is, after all, powered by us, and it won't be limited to 500 people no one can find. Then you can get feedback and institute changes or eliminate bugs before you go forward with an upgrade. It would seem much simpler than locking the barn door behind the last horse out.
Bob B. Apr 15, 2008, 5:13pm EDT
Hi Tom. I'm just going to go through the thread. I'm sure all of my questions will be addressed. I want you to know I really enjoy Gather. I thank you for your concern with how we, the subscribers, feel.
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Apr 15, 2008, 5:13pm EDT
. . .and thank you for the humble apology, Tom. I accept it. It's cool.
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Apr 15, 2008, 5:13pm EDT
I think Gather's customers are the advertisers. I'm not being flip. They're the folks Gather needs to please to make money.

The site--member relationship is something else entirely. I'm not sure that maximizing revenue always leads to pleasing members.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:15pm EDT
There seem to be many corrections and changes due sometime soon. Can we get a time frame for these? If sometime soon is next week, it might be worth hanging in there. If sometime soon is the middle of May, it's an unacceptable wait, and I don't believe that I am alone in this opinion.
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris Apr 15, 2008, 5:15pm EDT
Thanks, Tom, for hosting this, and for listening.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I'm off to post an article about my latest painting!

Blessings All! :D
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 5:15pm EDT
A number of you mentioned that you miss the "more personal experience" that you had pre-upgrade. I'm trying to understand what you mean by that and I'd love to hear your thoughts. If you could share with me what you mean by "more personal" - I'll come back and chat further about it.
Amy B. Apr 15, 2008, 5:16pm EDT
"First, let me make sure that everyone is aware of how the current system works after changes we made a in early March."

I think another problem is that explanations of any changes aren't broadcast to everyone. If you happen to be in a group with help info, or are connected to someone who posts help articles, then you have a chance, but too often things change and I find that I am not in the loop at all and have no clue about what the implications of the changes are. I am connected to Kevin, who has been great about trying to help people after these changes, but with my limit of 500 things, his article tends to scroll off my feed before I ever see it, and trying to find it has become too time consuming and cumbersome with this new layout.
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Apr 15, 2008, 5:16pm EDT
I appreciate the purpose of the friend sets and pings but think, as with groups and other features you've given us, they only work as well as the members who use them. The same as people tell group owners they don't want to waste time selecting appropriate groups, others will not want to waste time sorting and publishing to friend sets.

I still think the solution is to divide Gather into areas - games/articles/stories/ads/chats, etc. which would probably require monitoring.

Again, I would be happy now if I could just opt in and out of the options offered, and have it stay when I reload.

Thanks for caring what we want. Unlike others, I would rather you take the time to get the next update right before you launch it.
Lainie - Just Lainie Apr 15, 2008, 5:16pm EDT
Tom, you said:
I am responsible for the actions of all of our team, including these. We fell short of our own standards that day and I apologize to all.

Thank you for the apology.... But I think it would mean more coming from those that did the offending (Jason and Adam, in particular).

We asked a few of the younger members of Team Gather to volunteer to help answer member questions and comments (something they don't normally do).

This is the second or third time I've seen you highlight the fact that these team members are "younger." Honestly, that should have nothing to do with it. If they are too young to handle adult situations, they should not be involved in adult situations. After visiting Adam Peck's profile, I realized he is only one year younger than I am. Yet I know better than to be so condescending to other people. "Younger staff members" is no excuse.

And, as for something they don't normally do, either you picked the wrong people because they were incapable of handling the situation OR they are not very well-rounded employees. I would think you'd want the best working for you and representing you (especially to us....) and that was not what we saw.

We will review our internal procedures before our next release and do better for all of you.

Thank you - I think.
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 5:17pm EDT
Facebook instituted FRIEND SETS as a direct response to the controversy caused when Facebook began affiliate shopping and began to share friends purchases with other friends.

And based on your chat a couple of weeks ago, I think you instituted friend sets as a precursor to affilliate shopping. Not that there is anything wrong with that. As CEO you have to keep the bottom line as your first financial priority. And us as your first membership priority.

Which I think you are doing. I think. I realize some of the technology may not be THAT easy but I think it is not THAT difficult, either.

We all keep honing in on the two main themes: FEEDs/PINGs.
Linda K. Apr 15, 2008, 5:17pm EDT
Thank you, Tom, for such a gracious and eloquent apology. It's hard working under pressure. I imagine we've all been there ... and experienced communicating in ways we wish we hadn't. One can't ask for a better response than the one you just gave.
Beryl Singleton Bissell Apr 15, 2008, 5:17pm EDT
I realize this is no longer a live chat but I'd like to reiterate what several have mentioned here which is the desire to see content not feeds as first thing on the page.
Holly G. Apr 15, 2008, 5:17pm EDT
I just don't understand why...this upgrade is harder to use, you can't see your connections older article without searching through your friends, finding the person, and then going through their stuff. I spend my time on Gaher searching ow, not looking at content, and commenting. It's horrible.


Sonce the upgrade, I have hardly been on. It's a jumbled mess...I love Gather, and I have been trying to work with this upgrade, but it's just not a pleasant experience for me anymopre. Gather was a lot more fun before, now it's just a lot of searching...thanks.
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Apr 15, 2008, 5:18pm EDT
Nippy, without the end users, the customers/advertisers would not want to be here. What would be the point? We have that purpose, yes?
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 5:19pm EDT
Thank you for the apology Tom, I undertand how these things happen and none of them happened personally to me as I never got on an article before it was shut down, but I am sure it makes those that did feel talked down too, a lot better. I am sure you will do all you can and quickly, as you have so many people saying the same thing, it has to mean something. there is no electoral college here.
Chris Carlisle Apr 15, 2008, 5:19pm EDT
1) allowing you to display the feed on your profile page to just certain friend sets (or to no one at all), but prevent others from seeing it;

2) allowing you to remove activities from your feed and, when you do, removing those activities from the Friend Feeds of the people you are connected to as well; and

3) allowing you to make pings and or status updates visible to only certain friend sets.


These choices don't give me much hope for improvement. What you're basically saying is we're stuck with this upgrade, or more specifically, some bastardized upgrade of the upgrade.
K S. Apr 15, 2008, 5:19pm EDT
I posted this response to the other article ... but not in time, apparently .... it was shut down while I was in the process of answering the questions ... so here is what I had to say in answer to your questions .....

How does post-release Gather experience compare to pre-release Gather?
Post-Apocalypse, you mean?

Is it better/more compelling or worse/less compelling?
It is much worse ..... distracting, ugly, unfriendly

What is your favorite thing about the feeds?
NOTHING

What do you like least?
the feeds and the lack of white space on my home page .... it looks so unprofessional and juvenile

Did you use Gather more or less over the last three days? Why?
I have used this site much less over the last few days .... because it is unfriendly, unwelcoming, depressing, over-active, cluttered .... Why should I be someplace that is not comfortable for me to be? .... honestly, I have been having headaches and eyestrain since you downgraded the site .....

Did you do different things or were your activities basically the same?
I definitely did different things ..... I was busy deleting my past articles so I would not have to do it later .... if the site cannot be comfortable for me, I will probably be leaving

What would you change or improve on the current release?
I would change the appearnce of the MyGather page back to what it WAS ... clean, clear, uncluttered .... with lots of white space and thumbnails that I can actually SEE ..... I would totally scrap the FEED things .... they are ghastly and extremely distracting .... how in the world anyone can be expected to concentrate enough to write is beyond me, let alone to comment ... Make it easier to get around the site again ... like it used to be ....

Are any of these changes something you consider "urgent?
Get rid of the clutter and make the page clearer and more professional looking like it used to be ..... make it easier to get around, like it used to be ....
kitchenMage (wizard of flour and chocolate) Apr 15, 2008, 5:20pm EDT
Tom,

The old style myGather was the equivalent of a few specialized *content* feeds: articles, images, etc. People could pick an area of interest and scan that. Articles displayed a teaser that usually determined whether or not it was of interest to them and the visible comment count let them track where there might be interesting, or new, as in flit's case, discussions.

If I recall correctly, all of the data that is currently in the main feed was available off of a "my people" text link that most people probably never clicked on. I don't remember if pings were there or not, but the rest was, right? If you wanted the sort of 'over the shoulder' look at your friends activity, it was there. It's sort an auto-twitter feature, lots and lots of tiny blips of activity. Very twitter.

So now we show up one day and not only are our neat little groups of *content* gone from our own personal 'our gather, our way' page, and all of those handy bits of info (first 40 words, comment count, etc) is gone, reduced to titles and maybe a tiny image, but missing critical data. If that's not confusing enough, the twitter-stream is dumped into the aggregated content stream so people now see lots and lots of tiny blips of activity they don't care about in the middle of the, relatively few, things they do.

You know how sometimes people complain about the signal-to-noise ratio on the most discussed and most read lists? This upgrade created just that on our myGather pages.

The 500 item limit means that if people use the site as you have told them to (make lots of friends, post, share, etc) means that they have to show up once or more a day (not reasonable for many, perhaps most, people) or go through a frustrating process to attempt to find that which used to just sit there waiting for them. This is one of the great virtues of computers, they wait forever and nothing ever goes away, so the low limit of 500 items in the aggregated feed leaves me puzzled.

I am curious, were so many people using that 'my people's activity' feature to read their friend's status updates, new friends, and such that Gather thought it deserved to be included in the primary content feed?
Peter Joseph Swanson Apr 15, 2008, 5:20pm EDT
I'm the one who coined the term "Gather now looks like a junk drawer" .



I shut off my ping and I don't need to know about anybody else's ping. I want to read articles and chat. Anything else just seems junky.
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 5:20pm EDT
Nippy has a point. The customers ARE the advertisers; it is a point of fact; we are the subscribers of the service, and, yes, that can have a built in conflict of interest...
Sue B.© The Sting IS Worse Than the Buzz Apr 15, 2008, 5:20pm EDT
Has anyone read the article Tom posted above? He is merely defending the changes that have been made in the name of saving 'underserved' members. The only choices you have are the ones he outlined in the comments.

I don't see any grateful 'underserved' members here. It's the Gather staff's perceived 'overserved' members who contribute to the site regularly that are suffering by this upgrade. I guess the underserved members were the ones you polled.
Wanda H. Apr 15, 2008, 5:21pm EDT
This is the option of the 3 you offered, that i would like to have.

2) allowing you to remove activities from your feed and, when you do, removing those activities from the Friend Feeds of the people you are connected to as well; and


Personally, I would the option to use the older homepage set up or the new one. I truly liked the old page, it was convenient to me. I am interested in a site for 'social' activities. I had to stop using MySpace because it simply got too juvenile. I liked the adult aspects of Gather.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:21pm EDT
I agree with Melinda. "More personal" translates to "easier" and "more appropriate" for me -- I want a page with a few articles, a few images, and a few comments, so I can choose what to visit. I want pages like "articles for me" so I can opt for something else if I want. It also means I don't care who has befriended whom, who has left whom a message, and I want different communications separated so I don't have to scan the page like a microfiche. I believe many, many people have asked for variations of this rather than variations of what we currently have.
Laura Cushing Apr 15, 2008, 5:21pm EDT
Honestly, I know I'm in the minority here - but I've found myself having a more personal experience with Gather since the upgrades. I've been talking to a lot more people via pings, mails, and comments than I was before because I see them right away and I'm reminded to use them. I made some new connections, I got out there and discovered a lot of new content through the use of Feed Me.
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 5:21pm EDT
:(
John S. (arizona) Apr 15, 2008, 5:22pm EDT
I think many miss the "articles/images for me" and the "view all" link.
We seem to be inventing different work around plans for feeds to get back to that?
Can you solve this financial tsunami ? ?. Apr 15, 2008, 5:22pm EDT
Hi Tom you mentioned in this "Talk to Me: Gather CEO Chat March 11" the following :

" Flit- We have figured-out a legal solution to points distribution internationally. We now need to make systems changes to match some of our legal and financial guidelines. Prior to doing so, I want to be sure we have the system really working like it should (it's best not to open-up a patient twice...the same applies to technology systems). "

Can you please discuss or tell a little about this system or programme ?
From when this system will be implemented ? - Can you please give an expected time period as when it will start ?

It will be also better if you can let us know as how this system will look like !

Please clarify on this topic. Many of us just want a clear view as what is really happening in this field.

Thank you !
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 5:22pm EDT
pings were instituted in december...first week.
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Apr 15, 2008, 5:22pm EDT
Personal experience: My interaction with other members came through the content. I could read articles and interact with the author and other members through the comment threads. The old UI was perfect for that. I could look at content posted by people I knew and comment on it. I could look at the unfiltered article stream when I wanted to.

The advantage to the pre-feed system is that there was a conceptual organization that the generic feed lacks. I doubt that anyone who uses the site wants to have to read through a list of everything their contacts do.

The personal element of the experience was the ease with which you could keep track of what your friends were doing. The feed is like watching a stream of freeway traffic and hoping to see something interesting before it gets past your field of view.
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Apr 15, 2008, 5:22pm EDT
Ditto the thanks on the apology.

Having separate lists of articles and comments for my connections felt more personal to me. I'm not sure why, since I'm seeing the same things mixed, but having those specific lists 'felt' more personal.
CC Miranda the artrat (or am i?) Apr 15, 2008, 5:22pm EDT
i think by more personal we ment that we weren't subjected to who friended who, who pinged who, what content got shoved down our throats and the ability to see more of the past content without having to wade thru the Pings and Friendings to find the articles and images or by going to each and every friends profile, then wade thru their entire content to find anything.

the simplicity of the pages before and the easy to read factor of the old pages made this a much more fun experience for a lot of us.

i've been stalked and harrassed by people now that you've made it easier for people to see everything as have my friends. i've been unable to access half the controls that your company tells me to use to make my stuff more private and no one can find the content that i do want public such as my images since the pics are so small on the feed that no one can see them.

all the simplicity and features that i liked about gather have been taken away to make a small populace more interested. and have alienated the larger populace.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 5:24pm EDT
A few folks asked about the Friday poll regarding the release and why it went away faster than most polls (particularly since the vote was going against us: 54% against, 29% for, and 17% getting used to it). We had added that poll mid-day because the community requested it in help.gather.com. We thought it would be a good way to gauge overall community feedback.

Our polls refresh automatically at 8pm on weekend nights, unless we prevent them from doing that. We had already placed our Saturday poll in queue and it went live on schedule at 8, after the member experience team went home for the weekend.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:25pm EDT
It certainly seems that more members are underserved by this upgrade than any ones that may have been asked to participate in its development. And Nippy is right. Most of the revenue comes from advertisers. It's also true that advertisers will not advertise to an empty audience.

I hope, as Chris Carlisle mentioned, that we are not going to be stuck with this, or some hastily rearranged version of this. If you can make one change overnight, you can make another, although it might seem less fun at the time.
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 5:25pm EDT
my opinion exactly Flit
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 5:27pm EDT
Good luck Tom, and thanks for the chance to express my opinions, I appreciate that, and anything you do to eleviate the stress the noise on the home page is causing
will be greatly appreciated.
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 5:28pm EDT
I seriously have not contemplated leaving Gather until this ~talk~

I would hate to lose all of my connections here.

But that seems pretty inevitable either way now.

If it ain't fun, we ain't doing it.

And this new Gather is work. It is not fun.
Elsie Duggan Apr 15, 2008, 5:29pm EDT
Oh yes, I have had people tell me they were disconnected, and would I reconnect. I never disconnected anyone ever, how many have been disconnected from me that I don't know about. Take care Tom
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Apr 15, 2008, 5:30pm EDT
Sheeesh! There's just too many people saying what you're saying flit.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 5:30pm EDT
Many of you expressed that you feel that Gather did not hear member feedback regarding the features you recently requested.

I think this is in part due to some confusion about a series of surveys we sent out a couple of weeks ago. Our features in this new release did not reflect member requests in that survey.

An upgrade cycle can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. Our first step when planning a release is to do initial product research with member sampling and surveys. We then follow that research with an intense design process. We then do product validation with members and non-members alike. Following any changes in design, we do development and quality assurance testing.

The surveys we sent out recently were not for the most recent upgrade, but inform our planning for work that will be coming out in a few months.

If you do have a suggestion for new features, please feel free to post your thoughts at improve.gather.com, which is our Building a Better Gather group. Our product team and I read it every day!
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:32pm EDT
There have been many helpful suggestions for improvements and new features on this thread and the one from last night, as well.
Tina (a slightly smaller Spanky) B. Apr 15, 2008, 5:33pm EDT
Honestly, I know I'm in the minority here - but I've found myself having a more personal experience with Gather since the upgrades. I've been talking to a lot more people via pings, mails, and comments than I was before because I see them right away and I'm reminded to use them. I made some new connections, I got out there and discovered a lot of new content through the use of Feed Me.
Laura Cushing, Apr 15, 2008, 5:21pm EDT

Laura, that's great for you.

But the rest of us don't want to see everything you've done today. I don't want to see everything Doyle or Lainie or Ina or Julie or Monkey have done today and they're the ones I talk with the most. I don't care who Lainie pinged or who Doyle decided was "connection-worthy".

Having to sort through all of that junk during my day has given me a major headache, and made me very cranky.
George Corneliussen Apr 15, 2008, 5:33pm EDT
On the "more personal experience" topic:

Every upgrade adds steps to what a member of Gather has to do just to begin their Gather experience. The risk of too many steps is in losing the "one-on-one" feel Gather had for so long.

Think of it this way:

How excited would you be about meeting a friend at a place that required you to ask a dozen strangers where your friend was before you could talk to that friend ?
Many of the steps included in the upgrade are strangers that stand between us and our friends.
Peter Joseph Swanson Apr 15, 2008, 5:33pm EDT
One more thing that I think is junky - If I click on "images" on the top bar to look at all of them, the images that have been published alone are mixed in with all the images that are published to go along with and illustrate articles. Don't throw them together. Just show the images published as images. The images published to go along with an article obviously aren't intended to stand alone.
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:34pm EDT
Has any consideration been given to sending surveys to ALL members rather than a select group? That alone would go a long way toward repairing member relations.
~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Apr 15, 2008, 5:34pm EDT
Well, thanks Tom, and good evening.
Kim A. Apr 15, 2008, 5:34pm EDT
I don't think articles,images or videos should be in a feed period.And the other feeds should be an option.It is confusing ,not being able to find friends articles,images&video.
Kathryn E. Apr 15, 2008, 5:35pm EDT
instead of the three options you list, can you just allow members to turn off feeds if they wish?

i realize that the feeds may be helpful from a business point of view - not sure but my guess - and i know pings can measure how fast an operating system is operating - so it is helpful for your company to have both of those in operation, but i'm thinking we could meet half way...

a choice..without the stiplations you listed in 1,2,3 above.
donna f. Apr 15, 2008, 5:35pm EDT
Didn't we go through this "My Space" clone garbage a few years ago? Wasn't the general consensus against making this site just another social networking site?
elizabeth e. Apr 15, 2008, 5:36pm EDT
I agree with flit..."None of the above". I want my old Gather back. Unlike many, I made a commitment not to have more then 200 connections. I want to see just their articles in "Articles for Me" as well as "Images and Videos for Me". That way when I come home at night I can navigate through "My Gather"....and comment on my connections; then I can go to Highly Rated and comment on all articles that are of interest to me...then the same with photos and videos. I want to get rid of "My Feed"...I hate seeing who pinged who, who made a connection or any of that other bull. When I find a new writer that interests me, I want to be able to make the connection and then go back and read many of their articles that they posted a year or two ago.

I don't like the idea of putting my connections into "groups"...like cattle....They all are of value to me. I made the connection because I liked their content. It's the content of the connection that I value most....the essays, the poems, the photo-essays, the images that I want to see. Yes, later you develop a social network...but it revolves around what they produce.

For social interactions, I have my personal email and skype....but Gather is about content. That's why I go to Gather.
CC Miranda the artrat (or am i?) Apr 15, 2008, 5:37pm EDT
how i feel about separating my friends: when i have a party at my house, i invite all my friends. they come from all walks of life, all age groups and not everyone knows each other. they all know that they will have a good time at my house. because it's my house.

Many times over the years, I've had people comment that they are amazed at how everyone got along, even though they never would have thought that such different people could. And often they end up with a new friend that they wouldn't have met otherwise. If someone is having an issue with another person that I'm friends with at the time, they either keep me out of it, suck it up for the duration of the event, or don't come. but that is their choice, not mine.

by your "friends sets" I am now being asked to segregate my friends into categories and keep them apart from each other. Then if someone finds out they weren't invited to a "party" that I've had, it not only hurts their feelings, it makes me feel bad for having to exclude them.

again i feel like i'm being forced back into high school. could it be because of the Gather Staff seems to be made up of people that are barely out of high school themselves and have yet to learn how to handle themselves differently?
kitchenMage (wizard of flour and chocolate) Apr 15, 2008, 5:37pm EDT
Kathryn, this isn't a literal ICMP ping. It's just geek-speak for saying 'hi' in a brief message. There's no testing of anything going on there.

slaps geeky little hand
Kris M. Apr 15, 2008, 5:37pm EDT
George made a good point about friends. To continue his example, I would be displeased if I wanted to show a friend something I had written but my Word program wouldn't let me see or access it for about ten to fifteen minutes. My friend, in this example, is here NOW.

Or imagine you've severed all ties with a friend, but their latest conversation is painted on your wall, and instead of disappearing with the former friend, you're forced to wait for the paint to fade away in a feed of 500 items.

These, respectfully, seem like issues that should've been caught before the upgrade was done.
Laura Cushing Apr 15, 2008, 5:37pm EDT
Tina,

I'm just expressing my opinion of things - I have just as much right to like things as you do to dislike them. There is no 'rest of us'. There are individuals, each with their own opinions - not everyone likes or hates everything about the feeds.

Please let's not snipe at each other and instead do what this chat was meant to- give feedback.
Can you solve this financial tsunami ? ?. Apr 15, 2008, 5:38pm EDT
Hi tom i will be happy if you can please clarify my questions that i posted above ?
Peter Joseph Swanson Apr 15, 2008, 5:39pm EDT
This is the best social network site. The others just sit there, dead, there's no back and forth chit chat like on here. You don't want this site to resemble the others AT ALL.
Stephen Prosapio Apr 15, 2008, 5:39pm EDT
We do care, a great deal, and that's why I think emotions ran a bit high.

Obviously....ditto!!!

I appreciate you listening, Tom. You've created quite a community here and the potential (as I'm sure you're aware) is amazing. There truly isn't anything this content/community available on the net and I feel like we've all come (rightly or wrongly) to feel partial "ownership" in the site. Hopefully the interface can be amended so that those of us who value articles can find them without all the other (in what seems to be a wide majority opinion on pings and befrending) ancillary nonsense!

ciao
flit . Apr 15, 2008, 5:40pm EDT
oh now THAT is funny.... I believe I shall go sit on my hands now
Roy ☯ Hilbinger Apr 15, 2008, 5:40pm EDT
I just want to put my vote in for several issues which have been brought up by a lot of others.

1) Please let us filter the categories available on the feeds, and make those filters stick. I really only want to see articles, images, video, and maybe comments. Put little check boxes next to each category so we can check which ones we want to see, and make it so the next time we log in those changes will still be in force. This applies to both the Friends Feed on the My Gather page and the feed on the Namespace page.

2) I really don't like the Spotlight feature; I was far happier with the old "view all" button. Isn't there any way to put that back? Even in Spotlight? *I* can find my way up to the orange menu strip to click on articles, images, etc. and see my entire archive, but my friends and potential employers won't know that right off the bat and will need a road map. Unfortunately, potential employers aren't going to wait around if they can't get it at sight. So we really need the old "view all" button back next to the articles, images, and videos in the Spotlight.

3) Please, please, please get rid of the 500 item limit in the Friends Feed. I'm missing too many of my friends' content. And also please make the feed on our Namespace pages retroactive. I'd really like to put some of my older articles in there, but I can't because it's not in the feed. And of course, once again, maybe you can incorporate a "view all" link here as well. It's much needed.

Thanks.
Tom Gerace Apr 15, 2008, 5:41pm EDT
A number of members have requested that we add comment counts and view counts to their feeds (when articles/images/videos are listed). Others want these on the general listings for content as well (the articles tab, images tab, etc.)

How do others feel? Would this be helpful or would it add too much clutter?
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Apr 15, 2008, 5:42pm EDT
Like CC, if I have a party at my house, I invite all of my family and friends, and they enjoy one another (while admitting that the only thing some have in common is that they know me).

On the other hand, if Mom goes into the hospital, I don't call my friends from PTA. So, there are times when I separate people and I don't think anyone is insulted.
Dame Ruth, Chief Executive Elitist D. Apr 15, 2008, 5:43pm EDT
I, like the other adults here, object strenuously to the whole silly ping thing, and certainly don't want 'harry pinged sally' and 'sally was pinged by harry' cluttering up what is billed as MY page. Navigation has become a nightmare, content has been trashed in favor of 'social' activities and what started as a place for intelligent discourse has deteriorated into a schoolyard playground. No matter how you try to rationalize this travesty, until and unless you implement the suggestions made by the few loyal members you have left, Gather will be just another site for giggling adolescents to hang out. Not that you care, but as one of the 'real' writers here, I used to enjoy publishing to G. and interacting with what appeared to be a well-educated, appreciative and verbally adept audience. No more. I've lost all desire to put any effort into producing a worthwhile piece for publication here and unless I know my readers can find me easily, without jumping through flaming hoops to find my output, it will be deposited elsewhere.
Jimmie (Hey! Let's Gather!) Harris Apr 15, 2008, 5:43pm EDT
Tom,

To me, "personal" means I get to have a say in what appears on MY page!

I know, I know, I didn't leave the conversation after all...hehe..going now (I think).
Laura Cushing Apr 15, 2008, 5:43pm EDT
I'd love to see a comment count on my feed - but I don't really think I'd like to see a page view count.

The comment count would help us know if there's a new comment we should go read - but the page views isn't really something I think I'd need to see at a glance.
Natalie Neal Whitefield Apr 15, 2008, 5:44pm EDT
Why not allow us to choose our own defaults? And allow us to collapse the feed? I much prefer the professional look of the OLD GATHER. I was able to showcase my work here, but can do so no longer. I also had to remove most of the content of my profile page in order to make my namespace page neater and tidier. I do like the spotlight feature very much. Like most others here, since this upgrade went into effect, I have had difficulty finding articles written by my favorite writers and images posted by my favorite photographers. I appreciate being able to contribute to the post-upgrade assessment process. Although we are not your customers, we are the end-game for your advertisers. It is all about money, after all. And if end-users aren't here, who will buy what your advertisers are selling?
John S. (arizona) Apr 15, 2008, 5:44pm EDT
That's how it was before Tom with the "articles/images for me" format. In that format it was not cluttered. In this one...?????