The Writer-Editor Dance, how to step gracefully

Interesting link Vivian, and lots of good information. I'd love to hear from folks who been through this.

I really really wish I had some insights to share with you! That would mean I was farther along with my work than I am, though. So I, too, wait to hear from those who've got the experience.

Nice article link Viv. I too wish I had something of worth to add, perhaps some day.

No experience yet with book editors.

With newspaper editors they pretty much leave me along now except for the (thank, God) copy editor who makes any changes inconsistent with grammar or the AP Styleboook (average 5 corrections per article) mostly of the 10 vs. ten, capitalizing or not capitalizing words like "congress," variety.

We occasionally have words about things I want to capitalize the first letters of because I think it's funnier that way.

And they almost always change the title.

Thanks for the link, Vivian.

I'll check back here, Vivian, hoping to hear from those going through the process. This is something I'd like to be familiar with before I need the info.

I had an extensive editing experience with my (now) agent. It worked really well because we were basically on the same page (as it were) on the book, and seem to have a sort of world view in common. There was a lot of give and take and a lot of mutual respect. I considered everything he suggested, implemented many of these suggestions, took a sideways approach to some and rejected others. We worked on the book together for about six months - I think it was four major drafts and a tweak after that. It was a really positive process and resulted in a much stronger book.

I think as a writer one is really fortunate to find these kinds of relationships. I don't know if this is at all common an experience.

I'm hoping my next book won't need nearly so much work.

The important thing is finding someone who gets the the book that you were trying to write and genuinely wants to help you end up with the best book possible.

I went through this once, and it was for nonfiction, which might be different than fiction. Actually it would have to be, because when I submitted the final manuscript, the editor had not seen anything of the book except for sample chapters and outline. After submitting (a month early) I heard nothing for three months, during which time I assumed it was rejected. Instead I finally heard that they were just overwhelmed, and he like the text. The manusricpt was sent to a reader (I think this happens with fiction too) who made general remarks, and the editor then sent a long message detailing changes I needed to make. This included folding two chapter into one, omitting lots of stuff, and also including some material that he thought was missing. It took me about a month to revise and re-submit. At that point the editor was satisfied, and then the Ms was given to an associate editor, who shepherded the book through the rest of the process. That includes copy editing (an ordeal of fixing roughly two "errors" per line of text), galley proofing and corrections, dealing with permissions for quotes, checking for accuracy etc. etc. That took about 3 months. Meanwhile, cover art (including author photos), marketing questionairres, titling (there is a separate committee for that), and other things that the author is not privy to, (like the size of the print run) go on. Setting a release date is very complex, since there is a whole marketing and publicity thing as well as deals with dealers that are time sensitive.

Suffice it to say, that (at least for me) writing the book was the easy part.

I cross posted with Lisa. I should say that the editor's remarks are generally negotiable, and I ended up not cutting everything he thought I should. And I made lots of arguments to the copy editor (I won about half of those battles).

Editing, editing, editing. Oh, what a long row we have to hoe...

I read the article; very useful information, thank you.

Vivian, what a great article. Thanks for the links. Like beth said, it's nice to know what to do when the time comes.

Sy, don't be scarin' us now!

John, any experience is valuable to the community whether it be newsprint, fiction, or non-fiction.

Lisa, your relationship sounds great and knowing, as you point out, that their is a great deal of work to be done after we type THE END gives us a realistic expectation of what comes next.

Simon thanks for laying out the timelines and what transpired when. Honestly, knowing that title committees are going to run with the ms and comeback one is probably surprising for many.

Ken, how true. Editing is what separates the professional from the hobbyist.

I know we have a broad writing community and having a forum to share the experience and relay the nuts and bolts of making it happen would benefit many, myself included.

I am a full time freelance writer who worked as an editor for several years in New York and New Jersey for Prentice Hall Bureau of Business Practice and for Woman's Day Magazine and on Writers World newsletter. Now I have been blessed with an agent who handles my editors and we work together to get new editors for my books. Right now we are sending out ten proposals with four chapterfs of my new book, The Saints of Molokai. Maryanne

How dearly I wish I were involved in the dance. But thanks for the chance to watch, through other people's comments.

Interesting article, Vivian. I don't know about editors, but how do you ignite an agent to get back to you when you've been waiting for 4 months. I've already done the email and whine techniques.

I was very lucky to have my book accepted with the first submission. The book I wrote was about a young woman that was in a very abusive marriage. She was on the "slow" side. Her 2 little kids were her pride and joy. I sent the first few pages to the editor and they said they would publish. I told them what I wanted for the cover and they gave a couple of things for me to look over. I am still working on my second book and also a childrens book.

Great article, Vivian - I just got back here, so please forgive my absence, but I've just finished an intense process with an editor and loved every minute of it...I don't care how bruised and bloody I am ~LOL~ My editor is a consumate professional...in fact, she is so good, I ENJOYED having the rat stuff beat out of me...and learned so much about writing that my head exploded...twice! (It got better...) Like being deflowered, the process is painful the first time, don't let anyone kid you. I had great critique partners (who whipped me profoundly when I did something really, really stupid - in fact, one or two here) and I have a pretty thick hide...but even with that, I was reduced to tears more than once. You know what? She was absolutely right from page one to the end. I came away with; 1. A MUCH better book than the one I originally submitted; 2. A "used WAY too much word list" (the most valuable thing I could possibly have as a writer); 3. A "what were you thinking" list (both of which I can use on every new project); and 4. A very high regard for the kind of wonderful human being it takes to be an editor. I guess I need to write an article...Anyway, it was quite simply the best writing experience I have had to date and it's making the sequel much easier to write (well, easier to edit, anyway ~LOL~) - If I can get permission, I'll see if I can share some of her comments...if I can get up enough courage, that is...Yikes! Anyway, good to be back...it's been quite a ride....M:)

Hi Vivian, great discussion going! I've been through the editorial process twice now; just reached author/editor agreement on my second book last week. My publisher assigned their senior editor to me so he, my publisher and I have a very close working relationship. My editor and I will continue to work together on each of my books for the sake of continuity. It took quite a while to receive a response to my initial submission of SILENCED CRY, but the subsequent submissions went very smoothly. I also appreciate that both my editor and my publisher respond very quickly to my e-mails. Unless they're out of the town/the country, they nearly always respond within the hour.

I find that I have a completely different approach to my manuscripts when I'm in the process of writing than when it comes time to edit. When I edit, I have to forget the "creative" side and read it with a critical eye for flow, continuity, pace, rhythm, etc. Still, because I'm so close to my writing, I rely on another's fresh pair of eyes.

In my current book, THE BLACK PEARL, my editor found an inconsistency in one of the chapters that I was completely blind to. We batted it around 3-4 times before I "got" what he was trying to tell me to do. I'm so grateful he stuck with me because now the scene makes absolute sense. As far as the edits, he and I both caught errors and/or made suggestions for change. Unless my suggested changes create a technical problem, I've always been allowed the freedom to make them. In fact in this book, I added pages of new text to several chapters with any problems. At other times, I didn't necessary disagree with his suggested change but I needed an explanation for his decision and he was always gracious about giving one to me.

For me, it all boils down to relationships, respect, and trust. A writer should be able to have open discussions with their editor, ask questions, post concerns because that's how they will reach an agreement.

Marta and the others who said finding an editor on the same page as you are absolutely right.

I'm coming at this from the editor side. I've tried editing books in subjects that "weren't my thing" and couldn't do it. I could get the mechanical stuff out of the way, but as for tone and content, I was completely lacking because I had no knowledge of how it should be (mostly fiction).

However, when I'm editing fantasy, history, or religious fiction, I'm on my game. I actually recently edited a novel for June that (I hope) was helpful because of my extensive background in religious history.

On the other hand, even a book I'm interested in can be miserable if the author hasn't bothered to do a read-through on their own. The editor should NEVER be the first person to read the entire book through...I've had people send me so-called "manuscripts" that looked like they just threw up on the page and emailed it - no spell check, no nothing... Needless to say, I sent those back with no changes and told them they could resend when it was readable.

Also, as Marta said, it's almost impossible to self-edit completely. Aside from catching glaring mistakes in your own work, you need another set of eyes to read it over. That's what those of us on the other side are here for...to catch the things that spell/grammar check won't (homonyms are the biggest culprit) and to see that things that you don't because you see it how you thought it came out.

Hope this helps your discussion, and thanks Vivian for inviting me to comment here.

PS...if anyone needs an editor, let me know. I'm always willing to bleed on a new novel or short story, and I feel like I'm pretty good at it.

Excellent information, I'll check out the article.

Not here yet. Sigh. Love the insights from those who are. Thanks, Viv!

Great post with some really informative sharing of experiences. Thanks, Vivian, and also to each person who shared their knowledge of the process.

Interesting discussion. Glad I stopped by. Will stop back to see what others have to say.

DB 10 as I only read not write.

Vivian, excellent topic and a useful set of comments. Curiously, in my published magazine articles, they have rarely touched a word. I had one exception once with an editor for a well known datacom magazine who re-edited in a way that really distorted my original ideas. I pushed back pretty hard on that one and we ended up somewhere in the middle.

I have not gone through the editorial process with my fiction, but have worked a lot on self-editing during the past year. I will be interested to see what others have to say. Sounds like Minnette had a pretty remarkable experience.

I want to thank all of the published authors who have taken the time to share their experience. It really is appreciated insight.

Any others out there who can add to the knowledge pool? Please jump in, the water's fine.

I have just finished writing my first book and am only now beginning the editing process. So far so good.

Funny thing, my book has not been entirely edited but I am chomping at the bit to begin my second. The words for Book 2 keep moving through my mind to the point where I find my self speaking in that whisper voice I use for my own proof and re-proofing. Yes, it seems to be forming itself.

What this shows me is how rich the process of writing has been for me.
I love being read but I am growing as a person with every chapter I get down.

Sorry it took me so long to get here Vivian, I have been writing at a frantic pace lately, and I LOVE it!

Oh, and I agree with Simon, the editor's remarks are negotiable.
I try to keep my ego in check and my mind open.

Sage advice Anna. We do need to keep perspective of criticism of work separate from our ego. Good for you, btw, keep at it.

Useful comments. I enjoyed revisiting.

helpful

Wow, Vivian, this book sounds like something I need to get NOW. I've never approached editors, only literary agents though. Methinks I need to take a step back and begin the pursuit of an editor to fine-tune my manuscript.

Rachael did an excellent job editing my ms. I couldn't have done it without her. I agree with her when she said it's almost impossible to edit your own work.

Interesting article and ensuing discussion!

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