Discussion Topic #32: The Kingdom of God: Jesus says it is within you. What does this mean to you?

I beleve what it says in the Bible.

I believe that statement is ever so true ... I have found it so by actual experience ... and subsequent word study would probably describe my belief now as panentheistic ... meaning not only is God to be found withIN each of us, but that each of us are withIN and thus a part of what makes up God or what God is ... and being thus created in the image of God, our natural perfection will be to become god(s). IMnsHO.

I believe that when we truly believe in god and the bible. We knpw that Jesus died for us. We will be better people and we enter in to Gods kingdom and ever lasting grace

You got some of it right Adam ... :-)

"Christ in you, your hope of glory," said the apostle Paul. I believe that he was talking about the same thing that Jesus was speaking of--the Christ consciousness or the divine essence that is within all of us. As Jesus said, this is not something that comes with observation, it has always been there. It is up to us to come to awarenenss of this aspect of ourselves and to express it in our daily lives, as Jesus did. I do not see this being the same as saying that we are God, although Jesus himself acknowledged the words of the Psalmist: Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'? Jesus often reminded his disciples that they had the power within them to do miracles. He said that "these things and greater things shall you do." So he seemed to be saying that the power that was given to us is part of our divine inheritance as we are all "children of the Most High" according to the Psalmist. To me, this is incredibly uplifting and encouraging.

You raise an interesting point, Carla.......

One could go even further and ask what did Christ mean in Luke 12:32, when He said:

"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom"

In this verse, Christ tells us that the Kingdom of God is not just a "location" or some place where we will live, but rather a literal thing that God gives to us.

Let liars wilt, repaying life they're loaned;

We (by a gift called dying born) must grow

deep in dark least ourselves remembering

love only rides his year.

All lose, whole find

- e e cummings

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

Gospel of Thomas

I believe it is in the heart of every man and woman that truly believes in Jesus Christ and asks forgivness for their sins.

In the gospels, you will notice that Jesus refers sometimes to the kingdom of heaven as well as the kingdom of God. I have come to believe that the kingdom of heaven is a state of consciousness when we are fully aware of our Christ nature and are living in accord with this truth. Imagine if everyone lived a life where they behaved in a way that honors all living beings and created a world that works for the greatest good of the planet as a whole. Sounds like heaven to me!

Fritjof Capra might agree that in some way every part IS the whole, that God literally is within each of us.

I think we all know somewhere deep inside that we are spiritual beings. It's just that we live "HERE." I think this is the HELL that man had made because we are not perfect.

David, have you read "The Holographic Universe"?

Clarke, the Gospel of Thomas is fascinating, as are all the ones that were discarded.

Gnostics were early Christians. None of the gospels were written during the time that Jesus Christ was alive, most being written at least 50 to 200 years after his death. Much of the Gnostic texts reflect the earliest Jewish mystical teachings known as the Kabbalah. Yes, it is Eastern thought, but Jesus was from the East.

By the way, Adam, I see that you are still incapable of sharing your beliefs without attacking those of others.

Dear God (Personal Essay)
by Gregg Rowe | edit | delete
mars 21, 2008 11:38 PM EDT (Updated: avril 06, 2008 01:04 PM EDT)
rating: 10/10 (4 votes) | comments: 4
Dear God
First and most importantly, this is not a letter to God in the religious sense that we as a society have been raised to believe in as Catholics, Protestants, Christians et al. This is a letter to my God and my concept and perception of him/her.
My god is the god that use to be all capitalized, as in G O D. With this capitalization it is an acronym standing for GOOD, ORDERLY and DISCIPLINED. I believe that if I am Good, Orderly, and Disciplined in my human life, I am, therefore, my own G O D.
And if I am my own G O D, then I need a cosmic force greater than myself to remain balanced in my existence. I. therefore, believe, in a higher superior cosmic force in this great universe.
So I am writing to you, my G O D, a thank-you letter.
First, I would like to thank you for making me a survivor. Not once, when, as a child, I was a victim of physical and sexual abuse by my father, my babysitters, my cousins and aunts (who are really not blood relatives of mine but who were friends of the family -- more friends of my father). Nope, once was not enough. At the age of twenty, after work at Hy's restaurant in Vancouver, I was kidnapped by three men and raped in an apartment building somewhere near the seawall. But it never seemed to stop. After putting that incident in the dark corners of my mind, I settled down with a lover and one night in a drunken stupor, with a knife to my throat, again I was forcibly attacked.
But yet I want to thank you for these experiences, because they gave me the strength to deal with the devastating result of the last rape--the HIV infection that is flowing through my life veins of my temple.
I am thanking you for these experiences for a multitude of reasons. They have made me a compassionate person towards diversity. I am thanking you for these experiences because they have nurtured my psyche. One must see cumulus clouds and torrents of earth before one hears the song of his soul. I am thanking you because in order for me to internalize the violence against me, I had to hear the violence within me.
I am thanking you G O D, because most people cannot perceive that some humans are evil and cannot perceive someone could experience all this in a lifetime.
I thank you G O D for letting me see my fortieth birthday. I am thanking you, because during the past forty years, I have been on a journey of wisdom that I received through my experiences to become knowledgeable. And I am compassionate, loving, understanding, and open to all diversities of the world.
I am thanking you because I am non-judgemental, forgiving, non-prejudice and learning to release my anger in constructive ways.
You taught me to value love and life. I have not committed suicide to end the torment of my nightmares nor am I a criminal sitting in a jail cell.
I am thanking you because you have filled my journey of life with -- not what the world perceives that will make them happy (which of course is the proverbial dollar) -- but with the riches of friends. The two-fold friendships. My friends from the past where our paths join now again, and then the new friends who have joined us on this journey.
I am thanking you for all the angels that you have sent me in human form. They have guarded and protected me well.
I am thanking you G O D for creating me. If I am to display anger in my creativity, it is so I can control it so I don't abuse my friends and angels. If I am sad in my writing, it is so I can smile in life. If I am upset in my dialogue, it is so I can speak positively without having to hold my tongue.
I am also thanking you for making me gay. As if I didn't have enough evil experiences in my life, you had to tag me in society as a minority. Not once, but twice, making coming out a reason to doubly party in my life by making me positive (HIV positive). What more could I look for in my already difficult life?
While I learned experiences from this, I discovered surrogate families versus biological siblings. I discovered the evils of discrimination, prejudice, and condemnation.
And I discovered wake-up calls. I learned to become a recovering alcoholic and a benefit to society.
And I discovered advocacy = anger: venting positively.
I thank you for making me a writer. It taught me that people care when you are honest -- and vulnerable. But you have given me a passionate innate art, that I furiously aim to develop...no matter how much borrowed time I have left.
But G O D --
I need to ask you, did you have to throw so many darts and devils my way for me to be the person I am today?
As a human, and as Gregg today, I say YES...a resounding YES!!!
So I just want to thank you for teaching and giving me the tools and techniques of survival, for making Gregg, Gregg, and for giving me the gift of writing.
©2001

This is as authoritative an account of theology as I have ever read. It is full of the positive growth of humanity which balances the destructiveness of the less than loving (and so, less than human) aspects of our human spirit, which balances these with the lessons of those higher angels in life which lead us to greater love. It is authoritative in its personal standpoint and in its overall stance of giving thanks for life.
John R, mars 24, 2008, 4:11pm EDT


JOHN: THIS WAS SUCH A CARTHACIST TO WRITE! Over the years I am very thankful to have had some sober days where I could reflect in sanity about my path of life. My Higher Power tells me that there is amission and perhaps this is the mission. To deliver words of experience and survival in an authentic voice. So I thank G-d everyd day for giving me this beautiful gift of expression and I am humbled that these words can touch so many people's lives in many different ways.

Why can't we just accept diversity? Then violence would subside and the axis of the world would cahnge to be more positive. I know it is coming. A New Earth proves it.

Gregg
Gregg Rowe, avr. 6, 2008, 1:08pm EDT


Gregg, I had tears in my eyes reading this. As a survivor of sexual abuse at the hands of my father, I can relate to how that experience has strengthened you and helped make you the person you are today. To have suffered all that you have on so many occasions is so heartbreaking and to know the reasons "why" is something that we can only ponder.

To have come through it all a stronger, more compassionate, non-judgmental person is so amazing. You are an inspiration to those who think they cannot continue on after going through such difficult times. Your life is meaningful and rich, and to have that is so special. Some people merely exist...living long lives of sheer desperation.

I agree with you. Being a writer is a true blessing. Writing was my therapy as I suffered through 8 years of abuse, and it has been my therapy ever since. And in my writing, I hope to reach others as you are certainly doing here. Thank you.
Cheryl W., avr. 6, 2008, 1:15pm EDT

I love all of the comments, even Adam's, because he shows the limitations of required restriction of concepts when one has sworn their allegiance to basically two books of dogmatic creed, even excluding so many "gospels" that were (and are) necessary to give the truer picture of a larger faith ... a faith that became so relatively conservative, due to the aims of the mere men of the time, who sought to bind their followers to them and their institutions ... a misguided attempt to build powerful hierarchies for control here on earth ... a very "objective" (exoteric) action, that has become but an "idolized" sacrament for the REAL SPIRITUAL essence which remains out of reach as too "occult" and subjective for those too hung-up on dogma, literal interpretations of spiritual and INtuitive essence, the transcendent and esoteric truths actually meant to be imparted to mankind ... through every and all means ... NOT "just" through "Brands" of Religion ...

If God is to be considered the totality of all creation, as I believe, or even only the "source" of it, as Adam "seems" to believe, God is still the "gold" standard for the ONE, and only, absolute, of consideration, from a "universal" perspective ... IMnsHO.

Thus for a more liberal mind, there may well be an infinite number of possibilities withIN such a vast creation of infinite potentials beyond our ability to "now" know of ... but with a "capitol G" God at the center of it all, at least IN SPIRIT ... there may well be also, and I believe there is, countless (to us, not to God) "lower case g" gods ... of which I believe the Jesus of earth fame (and beyond) is, in relationship (relative) to His Father God, the word "Christ" being but a cosmic (divine in this case) "sir-name" given to one that has become a "god" ... our "actual" realized "relative," when we also become so "related" by the Grace of the Father "when" it truly "happens" to us ... not just only in "words" of "authorization" from so-called "Priests", the "middle-men" of religions ...

Adam, I actually know of this by personal experience which came from withIN ... that with no prior beliefs to restrict me to any philosophy or spirituality ... all indications of my present beliefs being related to "Eastern" concepts, is simply because I have searched since my awakening to truth, all possible relative relationships between earth humans and the idea or concept of a Loving and UNIfying GOD (God). I have found that in words of countless ancient books, each having value, some maybe as much, or more, than "your" two books, cumulatively, expressing the ESSENSE of what has become known by those most INformed, as the Perennial Wisdom (or Philosophy) that IS the generic TRUTH of the ONE GOD, the God of our UNIversal consideration ... for those not so bound up in lessor beliefs ... which is what a belief in "a" Christianity that insists that "Christ IS God" amounts to ... Christ is but a term for one who has been "Christed" by "the" God (via Spirit) PERSONALLY ... they KNOW who they are ... there are MANY IMPOSTERS ... the latter being the Blind as well as their blind followers ... IMnsHO.

The UNIverse is very vast and full of potential, eternal and infinite, our limited concepts will only hold us back from the truths that would otherwise set us free ... would we but trust such truth ... which comes to us INternally from our INtuition, our most direct and near connection to the Spirit of the One God ... (+=-).

Greg, thank you for so honestly sharing your journey. It is harrowing, and I appreciate that you can acknowledge that it has made you stronger and more compassionate.

PS ... and though I had not yet seen or read the comment above mine from Gregg when I began mine ... it is a perfect example of what God is all about ... a very personal relationship involving unconditional love allowing our spiritual growth and evolvement ... thank you Gregg.

Adam P.,
An objective study of the Four Gospels makes it clear they were each written to stress a certain point of view. They don't agree with each other if taken literally.

Paul gave a very different message from the Gospels. He never claimed to have been raised up or given the powers, as to heal, of Christ after His Resurrection. The authors of the Gospels testify they were. Paul , on the other hand, believed it was possible - a different view. He formulated a different agenda for the Christian message.

By the way, many of the female names of followers mentioned in Paul's Letters were later changed to male ones in the "official" Bible.

There are probably more than 500 texts called Gospels. Choosing which ones to give authority to depended on many factors over time.

Good points, Clarke. Only two of the gospels mention a virgin birth. They were all written for different audiences. Paul never mentioned the virgin birth either.

And yes, the texts chosen had more to do with politics than with truth. The Gnostics believed that the truth lies within each person and made it clear that the church was not necessary to finding that truth. This idea would have led Christianity down a whole different path had it not been suppressed. And church attendance would most certainly have dropped off. That alone would have been enough reason to leave these teachings out.

Carla,
"Yes and no." There are many different Christian churches today and their teachings and rituals are different. The view of Christ's message in the Orthodox church, the Roman Catholic, the Protestant is different in basic ways, including rituals and art. Some of the other churches, some older than than the Western ones - as the Nestorian ,Assyrian, Coptic etc - have their unique character.

The interpretation of Gnostic teachings as "Eastern" is generally biased from an historical Western point of view.

I read the other day that the Roman Catholic church announced that Islam has now surpassed it in numbers.

China is a very diverse society with many faiths, including millions of Christians and Muslims. It is quite possible that China will have the largest number of both Christians and Muslims of any nation in this century.

Adam P.,
Your views are based on the comments of "special interests" who had the aim of condemning teachings that opposed their groups. They invented stuff to do so. St Augustine, who received a partial, incomplete transmission of the original teaching , via the Manicheans, further distorted what became official Church doctrine. Paul never considered himself to have the authority or experience of Christ's pupils - he felt called to make the teaching available to the wider world but he knew he had not attained their level.

You choose to make a "religion" of Christ's mission and work . That is what most clergy of other world religions do to the teachings of the messengers and teachers . This is fine when there is mutual understanding of the diversity of religions - as there has been at times , as when Christians,Buddhists, Muslim, Jewish et al teachers shared their knowledge and studied together - as was the case for some centuries throughout the Middle East, Asia, Central Asia, Africa and Europe when pupils travelled ,studied and learned from diverse traditions and teachers in different communities and monasteries .

You lack a basic, factual understanding of history.

As for Christ's mission and teaching, you seem to be preaching a dogmatic and distorted set of religious convictions that are characteristic of many today who
are not yet experienced in their work on themselves.

"And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power."

(1 Corinthians 2:1--4)

Adam, because there are always at least two sides of every story based upon two perspectives and often different intentions, I will side mostly with Clarke, because based upon my own experiences, reading, and other deep study, I am well aware of the "slant" that the Christian historians have given everything ... you of course see that as just the gospel truth ... but that is because you have selected that perspective amongst countless choices that would be just as, or more, valid.

Thus we really do make our own reality ... to each their own. :-)

As far as I am concerned, "you all" went wrong with Augustine when he adopted "Dualism" (+/-) ... the Polarization of Good Against/Over Evil ... because of "that" you folks do not even understand the metaphoric truth of your own Trinity (+=-). IMnsHO.

Adam, if you were a perfect as you believe, and in God's inner circle of those who know and see all in perfect unison with the Spirit and in Truth, then you would be speaking to us from Heaven.

I am repulsed by people who talk as if they are the ultimate authority on God and religion. References to Jesus Christ and His personal teaching emphasize over and over that each person's relationship with Jesus Christ and therefore with God is "personal. To me this means that each might be different as well. What God speaks to me, is spoken to me alone and has no bearing on what God might want to speak to you. I can't tell you whether you are right or wrong, as you can't tell me whether I am right or wrong. Spiritual understanding is PERSONAL, between God and self.

Ugh, Adam and his ilk have distorted and spoiled this previously lovely sharing place. I find it sad.

As for your question, Carla. I believe Jesus when he said the Kingdom of God is found within each of us. I believe this kingdom is a place to worship God "in spirit and in truth," as we have been instructed. It is our "closet" in which to pray and receive answers to those prayers. It is our protection from the judgements of the modern Pharisees. To go within, I find the peace that passeth understanding, therefore, I can't really explain it in words.

Sandy F., you said it ! ... and those similar to Adam ARE the "modern day" Pharisees, for sure ... it is so sad, because there are so many of them, and they are in complete ignorance and denial of that fact. IMnsHO.

Pharisaic: observing the form, but neglecting the spirit; self-righteous. (Funk & Wagnalls)

Adam P.,
You perhaps did not understand my point was Augustine did not receive an authentic transmission of the teaching as the authors of the Four Gospels had. His association with the Manichaeans and their doctrines, which clearly were a partial transmission cannot be blamed for his failure later, in his theological writings to make the correct distinctions between spirt, soul and body as taught in the Gospels and some Gnostic teachings.

There is , by the way, a more complete representation of the authentic concepts in the writings of the early Christian fathers, such as Evagrius and Theophan. Some of their teachings are influential in the teachings and practices within the Orthodox church. They are taught today at Mt Athos, for example. An excellent collection of their writings is contained in the Philokalia, which was compiled in the 19th century.

My other point, regarding Paul, was more obvious. There is not really a need for you to quote him at length to "dispute" it. He says he witnessed the risen Christ. He was not taken up by Christ to his kingdom after his resurrection as were his disciples. He was not given the powers that he had manifested before his death: his disciples were. For his disciples, the kingdom of heaven was a present reality, co-existent with this world. They had been with the risen Christ and been taken to his kingdom.

Paul experienced Christ in the spirit at his conversion . He conceived of the kingdom of heaven only in the future. His teaching was therefore a partial one. His mission was to prepare others to seek Christ in the spirit and to work to establish a closer relation between two worlds - this one and the kingdom of heaven.

Thank you Sandy, Jerry, and Clarke. I actually pray for people like Adam. He sees the mote in everyone else's eyes and yet does not perceive the plank that is in his own eye. It is just such polarization in religious circles that scares me and which leads to wars.

Carla,
Have you read "Jesus Plus Nothing," published in Harper's some years ago? It was scary then and still is.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

Clarke, no, I'm not familiar with that article. I'll check it out. Thanks for sharing it.

When I "died", (Four times during my surgery, they tell me) I was free of all the encumbrances we associate with "life". I was PART of everything in Creation ... the air, water, wind, sunshine, hot and cold. There was no pain or transitional stage ... I was just THERE. What I believed or was trained to accept were never in question.

This leads me to change my entire belief structure. It doesn't revolve around a book (the Holy Bible) or around an individual (Jesus, Allah, Buddha, etc.) It revolves more around who I was and what I did with what I had.

Thanks for sharing this, Rev.Dr. Jack. It sounds as if it was a transformational experience for you. Would you be willing to do an article about it for the group?

I think it's amazing that people who died and live to tell about it, can still experience life outside the body. I wonder if it is because the brain isn't dead yet. I've been reading about the Pineal gland and DMT. Could this be responsible for NDEs?

Is the kingdom of God within me? Well, if it's paved with Gold streets and pearl gates, then no. I can't fit all that stuff inside of me, honestly!

Debra, I believe that the reason for this is that it is the soul or spirit of a person that lives on even though the body may cease functioning. Some people have even said that they have witnessed the soul leaving the body of another person when they died.

There is one documented case of a patient being operated on who was clinically brain dead for a time - this was part of the planned medical procedure, draining all the blood from the body and greatly lowering the body temp to permit the delicate operation on the brain - yet they were able to remember the conversation of the doctors during the time they were brain dead. There was consciousness, which apparently was not located in the brain.

I believe the kingdom of God is both within you and outside of you. There is that little spark within that connects each of us individually with God which strengthens through personal communication. And then there is a heavenly realm - Paul described the third heaven, and Jesus mentioned the mansions, and John described in deatail the gates and roads and trees and even a big crystal sea of glass. I believe at some point Earth will be inducted into the heavenly realm, but right now our planet is in outer darkness, and we are spirits checking out the big blue marble in the vast creation and finding our way back to God. The throne coming down out of heaven to the new earth can only happen when civilization learns war no more. Heaven is peaceful, and we can allow our hearts to "KNOW" that peace while we are awaiting the great and glorious day when all Earthlings will finally get the Big Picture, and God will come to accept Earth as another spiritual sphere of heaven. Not that He doesn't want to accept us now, just that he can't accept our war-mongering ways in heaven. We still have some growing up to do here in Earth School.

Look at it this way - you don't add your piece of real estate to the Parade of Homes until it is finished.

Some earthlings awaken sooner than others, but until you do awaken, you will keep reincarnating yourself back into outer darkness and keep gnashing your teeth at one another.

When I "died", (Four times during my surgery, they tell me) I was free of all the encumbrances we associate with "life". I was PART of everything in Creation ... the air, water, wind, sunshine, hot and cold. There was no pain or transitional stage ... I was just THERE. What I believed or was trained to accept were never in question.

This leads me to change my entire belief structure. It doesn't revolve around a book (the Holy Bible) or around an individual (Jesus, Allah, Buddha, etc.) It revolves more around who I was and what I did with what I had.

Rev.Dr.Jack Daye,DD RCP,

Reverand Dr. Jack Daye, DD RCP in two paragraphs summed up my beleifs that I was presenting in my essay. When a doctor has give you a death notice four times in life, when you have a fifty/fifty chance of coming out of open-heart surgery, when you spent 72-weeks on Hepatatis C treatment (think chemotherapy), issues within your life become prioritized. I am so thankful for these illnesses bestowed upon me, for they have taught me what and whio is important in my life. A Higher Power for me includes the Reverand' sentiments: my Higher Power is a cultimination of many religions/mythologies/theories that I have adopted and grown each year in as I strengthen myself to continue to live and contribute to society before I finally leave. And yes, sometimes I do resort to the Bible in search of a passage that will help me, but my spiritual soul does not depend upon just the Bible.

Gregg

Adam, God's word is filled with mystery, the book itself even says so. Thats why you can't take it literally. God is constantly creating anew. Jesus basically said he came to fulfill what the Old could no longer give us, that is, a new understanding. Christ means anointing, and that what he brought us.

Rosa, I deleted Adam's comment. I have told him before that I will not tolerate personal attacks against people who particpate in these forums.

Rosa, I really enjoyed your comments, and yes, "awakening" is crucial.

Greg, you and Rev.Dr. Jack have both had powerful experiences that have been life-altering. I sometimes wish that I could glimpse the "other side" but don't think that I'd want to go through everything that brought you to it. I am grateful to those of you who share your experience and give us all a chance to understand. Bless you both!

By the way, please take the time to read Rev.Dr. Jack's full account of his near-death experience in his article, which I have featured on Spirituality Explorers.

First off, Rosa says it well, as do others.

I see the Spirit of God as non-local, as well as local, I believe it is "the mind", the all pervading, ubiquitous, intelligent energy force of all of creation, maybe similar to the water a fish swims in, taking it for granted most likely like we do (metaphorically) ...

I then believe that our DNA/RNA (which is throughout our physical being) is a cumulative "Transceiver" (transmitter - receiver) that "tunes" us INto God's Spirit which we sense via our INtuition "telepathically" (along with the faint and oft unrecognised thoughts of others, all of us contributing to the "mass mind" which INcludes that of God ... but possibly on different "frequencies" (picture radio/tv energy signals here, multiple channels) ...

The point being, analogous to our personal computers, our brain is our central CPU "hardware" the "coordinator" of physicality ... the mind(s), our intelligent programming "real time" connected to "all" such energies as distinguished, applicable via our physical DNA/RNA "system" codes ...

Thus even when the body shuts down, to whatever degree, the energy of "our special frequency" remains in creation ... thus remembrance via such as "out of body" and NDEs. (near death experiences) ...

There is a "field of auric energy" that is all around each of us, it is a part of that system that I just described. IMnsHO.


Carla, it saddens me that you would delete comments here, even, and/or, especially Adam's ... because all of us contribute our own "flavours" to these discussions ... it is the totality of creation that is required to experience the truth of it ... we cannot have truth with everything of say only a positive or negative, life, and spirit, is a balance.

As for Adam, he is a part of that and without his "tracks" here, there is no completion ... as for his being a certain way, that is just his nature, and our "egos" need NOT be offended, especially if we are as spiritual as we prefer to believe ... people can only reflect on themselves based upon what they are, Adam is Adam, and we are who we are ... I would like you to reconsider and reinstate him if you would ...

This is also selfish of me, to an extent, because I want no part of censorship ... having had that done to me (I wrote an article on it called "Do Not Read This") ... and I then swore that I would not take part where it was done ...

And I truly enjoy your articles and really want to continue with them ... just IMnsHO.

I rest my case. Peace, j.

Sandy, Jerry, Clarke, and Carla,

You expressed your thoughts perfectly. You said it all!

... and after I posted and refreshed my screen, I saw some comments that were not there before (Adam's latest) ... so maybe all is well. :-)

Adam, I ask none to replace anything, just to broaden their horizons without so much fear of other information ... you might even come to like it ... assuming you have any taste for truth.

Please stay, Jerry. You have so much to offer/share.

Jerry,

"I then believe that our DNA/RNA (which is throughout our physical being) is a cumulative "Transceiver" (transmitter - receiver) that "tunes" us INto God's Spirit which we sense via our INtuition "telepathically" (along with the faint and oft unrecognised thoughts of others, all of us contributing to the "mass mind" which INcludes that of God ... but possibly on different "frequencies" (picture radio/tv energy signals here, multiple channels) ..."

"The point being, analogous to our personal computers, our brain is our central CPU "hardware" the "coordinator" of physicality ... the mind(s), our intelligent programming "real time" connected to "all" such energies as distinguished, applicable via our physical DNA/RNA "system" codes ..."


Perfect!!!

Jerry, I want to provide a forum for people to feel safe sharing their views and beliefs and personal experiences. In the post that I deleted, Adam chose to call Sandy "wretched". I have said before I will not tolerate personal attacks on anyone. Adam comes across as mean-spirited in his comments and this discourages others from posting here. I have had people email me about this and say that they have felt uncomfortable posting their comments and experiences here because of how Adam attacks the beliefs of others who disagrees with his fundamentalist approach to Christianity and literalist approach to the Bible. You enjoy debating with him and allow his comments to roll off your back. Others do not. I would be sad to see you stop contributing here, Jerry. But I maintain my decision that whenever Adam chooses to attack others and their beliefs, I will delete his comments. It is my goal to encourage sharing here and not judgments and trying to make the beliefs of others wrong.

Adam, it is one thing to say that Paul called himself "wretched" and something totally different to call Sandy "wretched."

WRETCHED:

1: deeply afflicted, dejected, or distressed in body or mind
2: extremely or deplorably bad or distressing: "He was in wretched health" or "a wretched accident."
3 a: being or appearing mean, miserable, or contemptible "dressed in wretched old clothes" b: very poor in quality or ability : inferior "wretched workmanship"
4. Contemptible; despicable: wretched treatment of the patients.
5. Of very inferior quality

I think the problem here is simply a matter of who is actually perceiving who as "wretched. Although Adam is not fully clarifying himself, he is saying that "before the eyes of God" we all are "wretched." Based on his belief that all human beings exist and live in a sinful state. However, Carla and others are perceiving Adam himself as saying that Sandy and everyone else in the world is "wretched." Had Adam phrased his comment more along the lines of: "Before God we are wretched" or "from God's point of view we are wretched" or something like that, then perhaps others would not have seen Adam's comment as a personal insult.
Because, if the word "wretched" means "inferior" or "deplorable," then it is extremely important, in this instance, to make it absolutely clear whose perspective we are talking about. Who are we inferior or deplorable to in comparison??
If Adam is actually saying that Sandy or anyone else is inferior or deplorable compared to him, then his comment is indeed an attack and a personal insult towards whomever he is referring.
But, if Adam is actually saying, when compared to or held up to the standards of God, all human beings are inferior and deplorable, then his comment must be perceived in an entirely different way.

Right on BERF. and I had a comment in here that was lost when Gather shutdown earlier ... it went something like this:

Adam, the fact, maybe even "your" personal truth, that you still consider yourself a sinner, even with all of your religion, attests to the fact that you are not yet truly Graced with Salvation, the baptism by Fire (Spirit) ... thus you would be an objective participant in your religion on an exoteric level, yet to transcend that stage to where you could understand fully the mystical esoteric truths that yet await you ...

The author of the "The Metaphysical Bible Dictionary", Charles Fillmore, who you often put down, was aware of what I speak of, and that is why he wrote that book and was instrumental in the formation of the Unity School of Christianity ... he knew that which you still reject, and at the rate you are doing so, you may never understand in this lifetime ... so you know not what you fault my friend ... in "that" regard you are ignorant. ... and excuse me if I offend you, I believe that you may have started it ... :-)


As for Sandy, I'll bet she has been called a lot worse here on Gather, I have been around her for a while now and know that she is no shrinking violet in these matters, I admire her for being more than able to hold her own against the likes of the Adams ... in fact I suspect she welcomes them because it just makes her points as they do mine.

But Carla, it is your group, and you have your reasons for deletions, so I will respect that and assume that you will not be censoring to the degree that I refuse to participate with ... if you do, it will probably be me anyway that gets deleted (I believe we discussed that before I signed up) ... and that will settle the issue for sure. :-)

Dorothy, thanks for your support ... over and out for now.

Ooops, a quick review and I see I made a mistake I must apologize for, sorry, not to you Adam, but to Sandy ... you are a different one than I was thinking of ... of course the essence "could" apply to you also, but I do not know that ... so sorry, please accept my apology. :-)

Thank you, Berf, for your comments. There is a difference--that Adam does not seem to recognize--in Paul calling himself "wretched" and in Adam calling Sandy "wretched".

And Jerry, you as well as I know that I have put up with a lot of Adam's attacks and his fanatical and condescending attitudes towards the beliefs of others. As I mentioned, when I get emails from people saying they are not participating in this forum because they are tired of Adam's tirades and his verbally abusive attacks, I feel that I should step in as the person who started this group and say something. If the attacks continue then I will block that person from commenting. I hope that everyone understands this. I am not trying to censor people but only trying to stop viscious attacks on on other members of this group. I want everyone to feel comfortable sharing their views, beliefs and experiences. And it bothers me to know that some withhold their comments because of Adam.

Jerry, did you know that the auric energy field is described in the first chapter of the book of Ezekiel? When I read that passage I always think about the Norhtern Lights. I just think it would be wise for folks to read the Bible with an open mind.

I also agree with Jerry about the censorship. I feel safe in saying what I believe whether Adam disagrees or not. One day he will awaken, but even now he is our brother and a child of God. I don't believe Jesus would censor him. Leaving all comments makes for an open discussion. Adam can't hurt those who are truly awake, but we need the awareness of how our brothers think.

Rosa, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. If you read the Group Description of Spirituality Explorers you will see that it clearly says this is a group for "open-minded" people and that it is not about "judgment" but rather sharing. I have no problem with Adam sharing his thoughts and beliefs but he seems incapable of doing so without attacking others. Some may not be as awake as you are and they shouldn't have to be subjected to Adam's mean-spirited comments. Discussion is good, I believe, but having experienced Adam's comments on many threads, including in this group, it is clear that he is not "open-minded" and he is totally focused on "judgment".

Carla, what will Adam do when there is no one to play the game with him? LOL, but then again he may not be the last person to awaken either.

I'm not fully awake, but I just know when I read Adam's comments, it makes me realize things and my own enlightment grows, and then I am able to share more.

Looks like I missed a fascinating discussion here. But in answer to the original question, it means to me that I might not have to cross the world or the universe to find it, and nor will having crossed the world mean I'm in danger of losing it.

Rosa, few of us are fully awake or else we probably would have ascended by now. LOL And trust me, Adam will find others to do the dance with.

Sheila, yes, it has been fascinating. And you're correct, you do not have to cross the world to find it, or even go to a church for that matter. You can't lose it either. You can only be unaware of it, or as Tolle says, not awake to it.

Before the collapse of the Soviet regime, I remember visiting their Embassy in Tehran. It had extensive, beautiful grounds . The embassy dated from the time of the Czars, I believe. When I remarked to an Iranian that it seemed like Central Park with its variety of horticulture, he said, "Yes, but the birds are only allowed to alight on one tree."

Clarke, that is a strange thing he said. What do you make of this statement? And I'm trying to find a connection with our subject. Help!!

Carla,
I thought the analogy between the Soviets' only allowing one point of view and those who insist on one interpretation or doctrine was relevant, after reading many of the posts here?

Clarke, okay, I've got it now. Yes, there are some that only allow birds (which metaphysically can mean "ideas") to alight in only one tree (belief system, perhaps?).

I Believe, that each human-being receives a 'fragment of God' when each reached the age of awareness (knowing and understanding right from wrong) which for most occurs around the age of 5 or 6 years old.
I Believe, this 'fragment of God' serves as both a guide (conscience) and as a recorder of the individual's character.
I Believe, the content of our character i.e. our experiences, the resultant decisions all amount to that which we consider 'the soul' which is weighed in the balance upon the demise of this fleshly body.
No human-being is perfect yet, each individual has the opportunity to be welcomed into the Kingdom of God. Every human-being has within them the ability to mold their character. Imagine your soul as a pie chart, one section is white, another is grey and thirdly one section is black. If each of us develops our 'content of character' so that the white outweighs both grey areas and black, they are deemed worthy of entry into the Kingdom, to continue onward in God's plan for mankind.

This is what, I Believe

Interesting, Richard. I like that you say "I believe".

I have also heard the theory that we are cells in the body of God, as well as the idea that a spark of God is present within us all. Someone else put it this way...we are drops of water in the ocean that is God.

Carla: I think that would be in my essay to G-d. I never used the "water analogy, but I used the spelling out of the acronym--Good Orderly and Disciplined.

I am following this thread and reading all the comments: amused, bemused, angry, puzzled, confuzzled are just some descriptions that I experience as I am enlightened by the diversity of view points on this issue.

Before I would even attempt a theologian essay on this topic I would want to research the differencebetween "religion" and "spirituality". Obvious because they are two diffferent words in our language already, there must be a reason for the differences in the defining of the words. After understanding these differences, then I would surely enjoy the debate with a Higher Passion.

I also see a lot of egoism written behind the thoughts with a majority of the debaters responding to the topic. As we all should know, as soon as the ego is involved in our thinking, we become clouded over with our thoughts.

Gregg

Gregg, I am impressed with the fact that you made it through all the comments in the string! That is an accomplishment! Yes, the ego gets involved when one is feeling threatened in some way. Our attachment to being "right" is a drawback to a forum of sharing without judgment.

I stumbled upon this website today
Not sure if you are familar with it so, I thought I would pass it along

http://www.spiritualcinemacircle.com

Richard, yes, I am familiar with Spiritual Cinema Circle. They offer some great films that you can't see at the theatres.