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by Dave McGill
Member since:
January 23, 2006

the contrarian - THE DAY BEFORE TOMORROW

April 04, 2008 02:43 PM EDT
views: 617 | rating: 9.2/10 (39 votes) | comments: 91

The planes rose into the blackness of the new-moon night and, after reaching their maximum altitude, headed east. The lights of Amman could be seen as the formation left Israel, sped across Jordan and entered Iraq.

Soon other planes joined the original group but as they passed into Iran, they split into several formations with separate destinations. Far below, and to the south, along the shores of the Persian Gulf, the Bushehr Nuclear Power facility, a joint Russian-Iranian project, was left unscathed.

The same could not be said for the Chinese-supplied nuclear research facilities at Ishafan, the heavy water reactor at Arak or the nuclear fuel site at Ardakan. These facilities would soon be reduced to rubble by a variety of explosives including two-ton, bunker-busting bombs.

The largest formation, however, headed straight for Natanz, a heavily protected enrichment site located about 200 miles south of Tehran where it was situated 60 feet below ground.

Although there were a dozen planes in this particular formation, only one was of high importance.

As the first streaks of light announced the break of day, a mushroom cloud rose above Natanz, signaling the fulfillment of president Bush's vow to use nuclear weapons on a first-strike basis to meet threats before they became dire.

The time in Tehran, Iran's capital, was 6:00 AM.

Wave after wave of planes from the aircraft carriers Stennis and Eisenhower were also attacking suspected missile sites in Iran, but despite these efforts, hundreds of multiple warhead missiles were airborne within minutes and headed for Iraq and for our naval facilities in Bahrain.

At the same time, swarms of modern stealth boats, capable of speeds of up to 100 miles per hour, left the Iranian coast on a course that would place them within torpedo range of our fleet. Other Iranian ships were laying a blanket of mines across the 23-mile navigable width of the Strait of Hormuz, the Gulf's only outlet.

It was not yet 5:00 AM in Lebanon, but the news of the attack on Iran had traveled fast. Hezbollah had a plan of action at the ready and it was immediately activated. Soon, thousands of fighters and their equipment were moving towards the Israeli border.

As word reached the residents of the Gaza strip, the years of frustration and hardship all came to a boil at once.  Hoards of armed Palestinians, some members of Hamas and some not, breached the walls encasing their squalor and overran the vastly outnumbered Israeli soldiers manning their posts outside.

To the northeast, members of Fattah discarded their new-found partnership with Israel and broke out of their walled areas in the West Bank in an organized effort to team up with the Hezbollah forces moving south.

Meanwhile, as the clock moved towards noon in Baghdad, the degree of destruction from the Iranian missiles was becoming clear to the world. It was still before 4:00 AM in Washington, but the U.S. military and political leaders were receiving a briefing on the widespread destruction in the Green Zone and other military facilities as well as serious damage reports concerning the fleet bottled up in the Persian Gulf.

Earlier, the assembled leaders had ordered a full blown attack on all strategic facilities in Iran and the country was taking a pounding. Among the assets that were severely damaged or destroyed was the Yadavaran oil field in southern Iran, the North Pars Gas field in the Persian Gulf, and platforms in the Caspian Sea, all being joint projects of Iran and China. An unknown number of Chinese engineers and construction workers had been killed.

It was around 6:00 pm in Beijing when China began selling its dollar-denominated investments. The first to go were the U.S. government bonds, followed by its holdings of agency bonds, and then other miscellaneous assets. The total held by China, except for the government bonds, had never been revealed, but it was thought to be close to one trillion dollars.  As the fire sale proceeded the American dollar went into a tailspin.

Three hours later, when the New York Stock Exchange opened at 9:30 AM Eastern Time, an avalanche of sales drove the market down to a degree that caused the SEC to determine that a substantial disequilibrium existed and trading was halted in all stock exchanges under the so-called circuit-breaker procedure.

The chaos on the floor of the stock exchange was nothing, however, compared to the bedlam that ensued in the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges. The spot prices of all commodities skyrocketed. Gold was soon approaching $2,000 per ounce and oil was over $170 per barrel and rapidly moving towards $200.

By 10:00 AM eastern time, reports were coming in of lines forming at banks in the New York area.

Meanwhile, Israel was struggling in the late afternoon under a three pronged attack by Hezbollah, Fattah and Hamas and now, Syrian warplanes had joined the fray, elevating the status to "dire."

Haifa was surrounded and under siege. Beersheba was reported to have been overrun by elements of Hamas.

To the east, Iraq was no longer under attack, but massive rescue efforts were underway midst the rubble of the green Zone.

Iran's firepower had finally been muzzled, but at a high cost in terms of ships and sailors lost at sea in the Persian Gulf.

And further east yet, in Pakistan, members of the U.S. Special Forces, making up what had been called "Snatch Squads," were attempting to secure that nation's nuclear arsenal, consisting of 60 warheads stored in multiple locations, but the Pakistani Army had driven them back, and now the Americans were under attack by militants associated with Al Qaeda.

In the United States, panic spread rapidly. Banks, unable to provide the funds demanded by the crush of customers had closed their doors. Supermarkets, initially besieged with shoppers and finally overrun by looters as food disappeared from the shelves, were simply left unattended.

By mid afternoon, the president had used the powers granted him by the Warner Act and activated the national guards of every state. These units, along with all available military personnel and federal marshals had been sent into the streets of America's cities to round up looters and transport them to the nearest detention facilities.

Habeus corpus was suspended under the authority of the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

In addition, a 24-hour curfew was in effect and anyone violating it was apprehended. The news media was put under government control and the internet was rendered unavailable to the public.

The Israeli situation deteriorated rapidly during the evening.  As the clock approached midnight, the Jordan Times reported that witnesses had sighted a golden glow followed by a mushroom cloud over Beirut, the Lebanese capital.

Minutes later, a flight of Russian strategic bombers armed with nuclear bombs completed their mid-air refueling and followed orders from Moscow to proceed on a direct course to Israel.

Pakistan and India declared states of high alert and armed their nuclear missiles which were primarily aimed at each other.

In San Diego, Mohamed Askar looked at the long line of sailors' vehicles at his all-night gas station and decided to raise his price to $8 per gallon, realizing that his tanks would be empty by morning.

At that moment, Hu Chang, in a silo outside Hangzhou, China, was reporting to his superior officers that his team was awaiting final orders after fully arming its intercontinental ballistic missile with coordinates for its destination - San Diego.

Dave McGill, News Correspondent

Dave's column, "The Contrarian," generally published every Friday, to Gather Essentials: News will sometimes present a contrary view to various aspects of the news, or an alternate take on the conventional wisdom of the day, and will occasionally also appear on other days of the week

Dave has been a senior officer of a large eastern insurance company, involved in economic projections and investment strategy, president of a Midwestern mortgage banking company, and a financial consultant in Southern California, serving clients in the field of commercial real estate development

You can find all of Dave's "The Contrarian" columns at: http://gather.com/thecontrarian...... Keep up with Dave's other postings and Gather activity by joining his Gather network - just click here: http://atadaskew.gather.com........ You'll find Dave and other News Correspondents, plus celebrity content and plenty of other News experts at News.gather.com.

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Comments: 91

Frank Z. Apr 4, 2008, 2:53pm EDT
I liked the tone of this narrator very much - aloof, distant, yet immediate. It's a tone that for me works well in describing the end of the world scenario. Now to the characters...

fz
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Kevin Duffy Crovo Apr 4, 2008, 3:06pm EDT
Well thought out chain of events. I hope the administration considers these possibilities this time and not ignore the warnings they received before the Iraq invasion. I can't wait until the ostriches - jJ, Shill, et al. read this.
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Kathryn E. Apr 4, 2008, 3:12pm EDT
The shot heard round the world ...been there done that...not personally, of course, but my grandfather in France...However, as you so deftly and adroitly point out...well, we won't have a tomorrow...Tom Lehrer had a song about WWIII - I'll be back after the war, Mom, at a quarter past 3. He should be so lucky.

Let us hope we get a change of administration and fast.
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X Tabber Apr 4, 2008, 3:21pm EDT
Holy shit. A Tom Clancy novel in the making.

I don't think people realize it wouldn't take much to set many of the wheels you describe into motion. And as the dust and smoke settle, what would have been improved?
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Richard Frisbie Apr 4, 2008, 3:26pm EDT
frighteningly devastating scenario - pray it remains fiction - and for the leadership to keep it so.
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G. M. Lupo Apr 4, 2008, 3:27pm EDT
Let's just hope this account remains fictional. I'm concerned our current idiot-in-chief would be willing to destroy the world just to prove what a man he is.
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Patrick C. Apr 4, 2008, 3:34pm EDT
Extremely interesting article Dave ... I just hope and pray that it never ever comes to this.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Apr 4, 2008, 3:36pm EDT
When Jon on the Daily Show had an inset that said, "Bush is still president", I cannot tell you what a downer that was for me. I was not expecting that on Comedy Central. Then again, his power is no longer very funny to me. No matter how ridiculous he makes himself appear, he still has his finger on that button because 54,000,000 people were stupid enough to re-elect him the second time.

I'm with everybody else on the rest of the commments. Frightening thoughts for a Friday morning.
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R o b i n ♥ Apr 4, 2008, 3:41pm EDT
Thanks Dave, great writing as usual...
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Mary M. Apr 4, 2008, 3:55pm EDT
Very scary stuff - even more so because of the real possibility it could actually happen!
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Jerry Kays Apr 4, 2008, 4:09pm EDT
I love the way you brought the "seemingly" diverse possibilities all together ... but one example of so many potentials ... some even far worse in consequences ... and all too possible at any time ...

But as Kevin said, it will be interesting at the incredulity that will come from the usual far right crowd of apologists for the neoCONs.
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Tim H. Apr 4, 2008, 4:12pm EDT
The Steve King of the blogosphere has horrified again. These are reasonable assessments of an idiotic attack on Iran. There are more...many more.
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Wayne B. Apr 4, 2008, 4:20pm EDT
Excellent article. What is so scary about it is that it could very well happen. The idiots that we have in Washington can't think or see past their noses so this is a highly probable event that could rather easily take place.
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maryanne r. Apr 4, 2008, 4:34pm EDT
We all know there is a good chance the Third and Possibly Last World War will begin in the middle East. I just pray we are not the ones who start it. The cold war never ended it just got hot. We need prayers, love, compassion and common sense.
Love and prayers maryanne
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 4, 2008, 4:53pm EDT
Gee, Dave... this is too much like a Tom Clancy novel...
except, all too much like the tempest now in the teapot
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James C. Apr 4, 2008, 5:01pm EDT
David,

Quite a yarn you spin there! Very tangible and possible. Hopefully common sense of some will prevent the destruction of all!
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donna f. Apr 4, 2008, 5:06pm EDT
Dave,
Chilling, just chilling.
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Ron B. Apr 4, 2008, 5:40pm EDT
Great writing.
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Debra C. Apr 4, 2008, 5:56pm EDT
Too plausible to be fiction, too possible to be ignored. Hoping it remains untested.
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Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. Apr 4, 2008, 6:42pm EDT
The CIA, using sophisticated computer modeling, ran scenario after scenario, on any kind of attack on Iran, and informed Bush long ago that none of the outcomes were acceptable. As in, every one of them resulted in the conflict escalating to engulf the whole of the Middle East, and beyond. If this happens, it will not be because Bush was not warned.
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PONHROS (please allow me to introduce myself) ONE Apr 4, 2008, 6:51pm EDT
How bout we just ship Bush and Cheney over there to run Iraq. It would eventually collapse just as we are, problem solved
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jJack Midknight Apr 4, 2008, 7:11pm EDT
pathetic, the fear monger strikes again with a comical scenario only a moron would offer.
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Ken funkypoormusician Apr 4, 2008, 7:26pm EDT
Dave... Great Writing! Here's a new video of mine that fits very nicely with this article. It's called "The Price Of Oil" Check it out when you get a minute!

The Price Of Oil
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Bonnie N. Apr 4, 2008, 7:32pm EDT
ah, ha...jJack strikes again....I see him all over the blogs and have NEVER noted that he had anything worthwhile to add...Is that the definition of a troll? Just asking.....I'm fairly new to blogs and computer stuff.
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jJack Midknight Apr 4, 2008, 7:35pm EDT
all over the blogs ??? *chuckle* this is the only place where I comment nutjob.....
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G. M. Lupo Apr 4, 2008, 7:45pm EDT
Bush probably thinks he's personally ushering in Armageddon. He already believes history will be much kinder to his administration that it most likely will be. If he's that certain then there must be a lot of behind the scenes stuff that we're not hearing.
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Stefania H. Apr 4, 2008, 7:59pm EDT
Yes, Bush needs to rethink his plan.
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Kevin Duffy Crovo Apr 4, 2008, 8:21pm EDT
jJ brings balance - he must be tired tonight - I expected more of a reaction and some counter analysis
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Lisa Bouzan Apr 4, 2008, 8:33pm EDT
Great article David - very scary because it could be very real.

What about the neo-cons? Wouldn't they do more to protect Israel.

jJack - you are just a horrid little man. How many delegates are you up to now? Zero?
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Aunt Boni H. Apr 4, 2008, 8:37pm EDT
Congress needs to rethink Bush, Stefania.

Why is it that the "real" people in this world can see what horrendous damage this administration is doing ~ yet most of D.C. doesn't?
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Kevin Duffy Crovo Apr 4, 2008, 8:47pm EDT
Lisa, don't worry about Isreal, the Fed will bail them out
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Randy W. Apr 4, 2008, 9:25pm EDT
Repeat after Dave ...

Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ... Hate the military ...

Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ... Hate the USA ...

Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ... Hate Bush ...

Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ... Hate ...

Well written fiction ... lousy message!
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jJack Midknight Apr 4, 2008, 11:33pm EDT
write in candidates don't need delegates chump *chuckle*
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 5, 2008, 12:06am EDT
Randy, one of last century's greatest warrior generals and a two-term Republican president warned against people like you.
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 12:15am EDT
Kevin-- how's this, I'll just debunk a common misconception, eh ??

David, and others of the same ilk, would have you believe the MCA "took away habeas corpus." Nothing could be further from the truth. I wonder if they've even read the pertinent language of Section 7 Habeas Corpus Matters pg 36

(a) IN GENERAL.—Section 2241 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by striking both the subsection (e) added by section S. 3930—37 1005(e)(1) of Public Law 109–148 (119 Stat. 2742) and the subsection (e) added by added by section 1405(e)(1) of Public Law 109–163 (119 Stat. 3477) and inserting the following new subsection (e):

''(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly
detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.


''(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801 note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any other action against the United States or its agents
relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained by the United States and has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.''.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendment made by subsection (a) shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply to all cases, without exception, pending on or after the date of the enactment of this Act which relate to any aspect
of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of detention of an alien detained by the United States since September 11, 2001.


As anyone capable of reading English can easily see, habeas corpus has only been denied to those people that have been declared enemy combantants, AND--- MUST BE AN ALIEN. You do see the word ALIEN, yes ???

In short, the only people that will now by statute, be denied a writ of habeas corpus, are ALIENS, that means foreigners for you people in Rio Linda, AND have been declared enemy combatants.

Demagogue David spews half truths and outright lies to distort the reality of things, in an effort to induce fear. For whatever reason, the "contrarian" has decided to become a pessimist.

I've often wondered how Demagogue David rationalizes his self described status as a "contrarian," given the fact his paranoia seems to have swept across the country and captured the imagination of so many of his fellow citizens.

There is NOTHING contrarian about the way Demagogue David presents the world to us, in each of his carefully constructed diatribes of doom and gloom. Demagogue David is a populist, through and through his soul; "the little guy" looms large in the dogma Demagogue David offers, as if he has a crystal ball.

In his heart Demagogue David apparently yearns to be a rebel rebel, without a cause-- proclaiming himself a contrarian, posing as an iconoclast for his choir of sychophants screaming halleluiah halleluiah halleluiah brother David, "we're all lost we're all lost, the world is lost lost lost! ! ! ! ! "
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Shun P. Apr 5, 2008, 12:59am EDT
Bravo!
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Dave McGill Apr 5, 2008, 2:03am EDT
The Act suggests that unlawful enemy combatant refers to any person:

"who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense."

"Some commentators have interpreted this to mean that if the President says you are an enemy combatant, then you effectively are." - Wikipedia

Patrick Leahy, United States Senator:
"Passing laws that remove the few checks against mistreatment of prisoners will not help us win the battle for the hearts and minds of the generation of young people around the world being recruited by Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. Authorizing indefinite detention of anybody the Government designates, without any proceeding and without any recourse—is what our worst critics claim the United States would do, not what American values, traditions and our rule of law would have us do. This is not just a bad bill, this is a dangerous bill."

I'm sure the president would be comforted by your confidence in his wisdom and restraint, jJack, in utililizing the powers granted to him by this legislation, the wording of which you so neatly cherry-picked.
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 2:10am EDT
Oh, and by the way....

Those people that like to suggest the USA would be crushed into submission if the Chinese "called the bill due," I suggest you have a look at this article and remember, China has their own problems, and investing in their single largest trading partner really isn't one of them.

I would also suggest reading this if you get the chance, and maybe you won't reflexively bend and kiss his ass the next time some prophet of doom like David wants to tell you the end is near.


Lastly-- witness the vocabulary of the purveyor of paranoia----

The Act suggests
Some commentators have interpreted this
Patrick Leahy has every reason to mischaracterize the bill as well, does he not???
His "interpretation" isn't any better than David's.

How did I "cherry pick" anything , when I posted the ENTIRE SECTION PERTAINING TO HABEAS CORPUS ?????

Cherrry pick ??? What exactly do words like "suggest" and "interpreted" do ???

Demagogue David, sadly confused, pathetically abused, and devoid of any real "truth."
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 5, 2008, 5:33am EDT
The US would not be crushed in a conflict with China. How narrow-minded, Jack. The world would, though, cease to exist in any form we know it, including Americans and enemy combatants and everything in between.
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 6:47am EDT
Bent, uh..... apparently apprehension isn't your strong suit. I said nothing about a "conflict" with China--- I referred only to the fact China is in part, financing American debt. Some people believe we would be "crushed into submission" if China called that debt due. For those people I suggested they read two articles I offered.

I have no idea what the hell you think you read.
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 5, 2008, 7:30am EDT
Jack, I understood perfectly well.

China has stated now a few times that it considers its international economic interests on par with securing its domestic land and resources interests. In other words, such a "conflict," - ie, the US being unable to pay its debt were it called - could result in quite a catastrophe, for China would only call the debt in such a way if it were looking for a way to distract the world's attention to a series of its known and mostly unknown internal issues, or some other ghastly scenario if China's economic strategy were to collapse due to the current mood about "buying Chinese," or if the Olympics proves to be a nightmare beyond repair for China. Remember, the Tibetan issue is only the tip of the iceberg. China has huge disenfranchised Muslim regions deep under a boiling pot and beneath most people's journalistic radar that could make the Middle East and Iraq look like a sunday walk in a park.

Russia's equivalent of a Pentagon has stated the same, and recently has escalated that after formerly Warsaw Pack nations have gotten into Bush's pants' zipper with somewhat agreeing to defensive missiles on her borders... by saying, Russia would not hesitate with a preemptive nuclear strike were it perceived to be threatened.

The US is in quite a military mess right now, totally unable to defend a lot of interests due to the mad cowboy strategy in Iraq and elsewhere for the past 8 years, were the world economy to get really bad, and these two nations played off each other to provoke a conflict with America that could be our last one.

It's honestly now a time for someone with a whole other international approach to be president, and definitely not a McBush or Billy ball-buster.
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 8:06am EDT
Ah, well Bent, why didn't you say so in the first place *chuckle*
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 5, 2008, 8:36am EDT
Just saw Funky's video, he mentioned up above somewhere. I also strongly recommend ppl. watching it. It's pretty cool, in a down home funky sort of way.

OIL
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Diana Raabe Apr 5, 2008, 11:19am EDT
Yikes, David!
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Captain Ken Pothier Apr 5, 2008, 12:34pm EDT
"As the first streaks of light announced the break of day, a mushroom cloud rose above Natanz, signaling the fulfillment of president Bush's vow to use nuclear weapons on a first-strike basis to meet threats before they became dire."
Dave, you have turned the above tactics into good by using them in a preemptive idea of what could happen. You do this out in the open and do not spin or lie for it is what you feel inately. Too bad some can not see that the trigger could be small and the explosion in the world large.
Noone has said anything against our millitary, on the contrary the military has never done a better job or been supported more. It is the draft dodging civilian leadership that has sold them and us out. Check out the recent PBS four and one half hour study of the Iraq war. It is well documented and researched, not unlike one of Daves' columns here.
This next election is the most important in our nations history. Differences of opinion expressed in ideas from true observation and acceptance helped our country grow strong. I fear we are losing that ground these past years. I believe that it is from the top down in this pyramid scheme called capitalism that is weakening this country. The great majority of the populace including the military and their overburdened families are doing their part. Wake up the rest of you. Peace!
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Sheila Deeth Apr 5, 2008, 2:16pm EDT
Frightening, and way too plausible. Scary stuff.
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Jerry Kays Apr 5, 2008, 2:25pm EDT
We all have been brainwashed by the Capitalists to believe that every other way of "doing business" is just a lessor way ... that Capitalism is sort of like God and all other programs are evil itself ...

But Capitalism has come to mean, in addition to "what the market will bear", primarily; "what ever we can get away with" ... and "that" philosophy may well be ultimately our "undoing".
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 4:17pm EDT
capitalism that is weakening this country

commie pink-0 crapola. Is this the type of barbarian a former "senior officer of a large eastern insurance company, involved in economic projections and investment strategy" wants to be associated with ???
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Jerry Kays Apr 5, 2008, 5:32pm EDT
jJ, don't your wings ever get tired ? Everytime you fly around here you drop more manure on everyone ... go back and keep it in your sty ... *chuckle**chuckle*
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John P. Apr 5, 2008, 5:38pm EDT
Well-written, but ridiculous. If Bush decided to attack Iran, he'd have already told the leaders of Israel to be ready, and ordered the Federal Reserve chairman to advise all member banks to close their doors, and the Presidents of all the stock and commodities exchanges to freeze trading.

As far as the Iranian fleet, that would be our first target. It would be annihilated in a matter of minutes. Simultaneously, all of their land-based defenses would be destroyed. Minutes after that, your "doomsday" plan would be implemented. Any Russian, Chinese, Syrian, or Saudi air attack would be easily destroyed by F-18s and laser-guided rockets from the carriers in the Gulf.

I hope this never happens, but as terrible as the President is at directing a strategic ground war, I have a feeling that he would be extraordinarily efficient in a brute-force war.
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 5:43pm EDT
mere mortals get "tired." little tin g-ds like me don't need sleep.....
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Jerry Kays Apr 5, 2008, 6:09pm EDT
jJ, I did go and read your earlier suggested links, and as in the past I found them extremely outdated ... the first above over a year old and the second 2 years old ... but what is even more interesting is they would seem to "support" this article rather than "your" opinion against it ...

That makes me wonder if you even know what it is that you link to ... probably just posting long involved links to "pretend" that you have done your homework, thinking that no one will really go and read them ... I have and you are found out. *chuckle*
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 7:15pm EDT
berry berry berry, so badly bruised and bandaged, so sadly misguided, outdated???

You've got to be kidding. What those articles discussed were true then, and to the nth degree more true today, as the international financial trends discussed, have only been magnified since then, and therefore given even greater weight, and cause for bewilderment from so many just like you.

The truth never fades away, it's always the truth. What you chose to do with it is up to you.

I wonder if you could tell me HOW exactly, my linked references support Demagogue David's doomsday scenario, would you ???

David's idiot notions have the Chinx selling off dollars as fast as they can--- consider this wild eyed description: "As the fire sale proceeded the American dollar went into a tailspin."

Tell me, if the Chinese hold over 1Trillion, and they do, why would they desire the dollar to go into a tailspin?

Whatever the provocation, China would consider its levers and weapons and find one stronger than all the rest—one no other country in the world can wield. Without China's billion dollars a day, the United States could not keep its economy stable or spare the dollar from collapse.

Would the Chinese use that weapon? The reasonable answer is no, because they would wound themselves grievously, too. Their years of national savings are held in the same dollars that would be ruined; in a panic, they'd get only a small share out before the value fell. Besides, their factories depend on customers with dollars to spend.


This supports Demagogue David's wild fantasies, how exactly??

There are all kinds of problems for China if and when they would ever want to "dump" their US financial investments.

If they try to spend it locally, they first have to convert to the yuan, thereby driving up the value of the yuan, and they certainly don't want that.

If they try to sell off at ForEX, they devalue their own assets. Not to mention shut down their largest export destination, the USA.

It isn't a coincidence the Asian banks have been buying dollar denominated assets for the past 30-35 years, really, since Tricky Dick unhinged the dollar from gold.

It simply isn't as simple as "calling due" the debt China holds, as it doesn't really work that way. It isn't as if the Chinese can simply present their holdings to the Treasury and demand 1 Trillion dollars.

Let's not forget, it isn't just China buying US debt. South Korea is in the mix for almost 300 billion, ditto Tawain. Japan's central bank has never stopped bankrolling the USA since the 80s although their ability to flex their muscle as at times wained.

85% of all currency transactions on any given day at the ForEX involves US dollar denominated instruments. There is simply no other currency, even with the deep decline in the dollar, that can replace the greenback.

The EURO crowd is actually PISSED OFF because the euro is unable to take advantage of the strong euro, and it is even causing PROBLEMS for them in the form of slowing economies due to the high cost of exporting their goods.

The Chinese ARTIFICIALLY FORCE the devaulation of the yuan, as pegged against the dollar. If they ever decided to play fair, and let the yuan trade on the open market, the honey moon is OVER.

The simple fact is, to keep their own people happy, prosperous by Chinese standards, and growing, they MUST PRODUCE 10 MILLION JOBS every year for the influx of new blood.

300 million people in China, the same number of people in the entire USA, are categorized as "poor," and in China that's saying something.

If you think China is the master of the universe, simply because they hold about one third of all US foreign currency reserves, you are sadly mistaken.

I've been found out??? How's that exactly sprout ???
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pamela r. Apr 5, 2008, 7:22pm EDT
well written piece of fiction--unfortunately it's all to plausible--we may have a system of checks and balances and procedures that are supposed to be follwed but if you pay attention you know that what is supposed to hapen and what actually does are often two entirely different things, pray for peace and plan ahead is all i can say people--this world sinks further down the crapper daily--too bad we all can't learn to get along and have to act like a buch of temper tantrum throwing two yr. olds.
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Jerry Kays Apr 5, 2008, 7:41pm EDT
jJ, you put forth a plethora of "words" (on occasion) but they are based upon your own dis-informed and misinformed view that only supports a stochastic perception of yours. You do not look at the larger picture of total possibility because you so egotistically REJECT everything the liberal viewpoint suggests ...

In "other words", you my friend have the typical conservative one sided view that always thinks itself "right" and every other wrong ...

If you could only free yourself from that you might find the real truths of the potentials spoken of by those that do not discount everything unlike what they prefer to see or think ...

I will not go into specifics with you because I do not deal in those singular issues that can be debated until the cows come home (or even longer) as you folks of that persuasion like to think, if you can pick one insignificant aspect of a debate to win, you discount all other, in thinking you have won the whole thing ... at least claiming so here on Gather ... your mere claims will never make it so ... of course, to each their own.

But there is ONE THING that you are missing in your LOGIC ... the decline of the value of our dollar over the year(s) since your (linked) arguments were supposedly made, and just what is MOST LIKELY to happen should it further deteriorate in value as very well COULD happen should even a couple of the scenarios begin to unfold as mentioned in this article ...

Your vision is myopic and probably self serving ... there is always another perspective, and I am happy to say that mine is not yours ... just as happy and probably smug that you may think the same from your end ... have a nice day.
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jJack Midknight Apr 5, 2008, 7:50pm EDT
I will not go into specifics with you

You don't dare old man, that's the truth *chuckle* I've never seen you link to references to validate your stupid opinions, all you do is call me stupid *double chuckle*

You're an idiot.

now, since you can't adress even ONE thing I've said, the name calling begins in earnst, apparently *triple chuckle*
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Kevin Duffy Crovo Apr 5, 2008, 9:00pm EDT
jJ, you just don't get it. What is the real message here? Read between the lines - destiny is what you choose, don't let it choose you.
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Kevin Duffy Crovo Apr 5, 2008, 9:19pm EDT
Based upon your choice of icon, you're back in the seventies again. The stakes are much higher now.
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Jerry Kays Apr 5, 2008, 10:14pm EDT
I guess the flying pig icon I commented on earlier caused him to change it ...

jJ, there is really no way to deal with you other than I have been, because the subjective nature of the things I hold important have no value to you, thus no way to be comprehended by you ... what you are best at here on Gather, is giving the typical extreme right, narrow minded, and often hateful and nasty opinions against your own favorite and personally selected enemies ... any one to your left who are thus more balanced, even sometimes having liberal views. All of your comments being usually just expressions of a massive ego that must be offensive in the cause of defensiveness ... not unlike "your" president and his henchmen that you so love. (not funny enough for a *chuckle*, sorry)
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Dave McGill Apr 6, 2008, 5:15am EDT
Jerry, I've always been proud to have you as a friend.

As a general comment, if this fictional account indicates anything, I believe it possibly reveals how slim the likelihood is that this country will expose itself to the multiple potential risks that would be associated with such a foolhardy action.

Even after considering this administration's unbroken trail of major miscalculations, it's difficult to imagine that it would add this one to its resume..
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 6, 2008, 5:53am EDT
John:

You wrote:
>>but as terrible as the President is at directing a strategic ground war, I have a feeling that he would be extraordinarily efficient in a brute-force war.<<

This reminds me of "Mission Accomplished"...
and...

"It won't take weeks. You know that, professor. Our military machine will crush Iraq in a matter of days and there's no question that it will."
Fox News Bill O'Reilly, February 10, 2003

"Tommy Franks and the coalition forces have demonstrated the old axiom that boldness on the battlefield produces swift and relatively bloodless victory. The three-week swing through Iraq has utterly shattered skeptics' complaints."
Fox News Tony Snow, April 13, 2003

"Now that the war in Iraq is all but over, should the people in Hollywood who opposed the president admit they were wrong?"
Fox News Alan Colmes, April 25, 2003

"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things... stuff happens..."
Donald Rumsfeld, on the beginning of the insurgency, civil war and criminality after the invasion

Then consider this:

"In war, truth is the first casualty."
Aeschylus

"I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."
Alan Greenspan

"War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses."
Thomas Jefferson

"If you look at those matters [US War on Terror/Iraq], you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace. Because what America is saying is that if you are afraid of a veto in the Security Council, you can go outside and take action and violate the sovereignty of other countries. That is the message they are sending to the world. That must be condemned in the strongest terms."
Nelson Mandela

"Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose—and you allow him to make war at pleasure."
Abraham Lincoln


"We are now spending on these activities more than 10% of all the government's annually appropriated funds... We're at a point where we look at how much is approved by Congress, we're at $450 billion. Then the $116 billion requested by the Bush administration puts the total at over $556 billion... The Vietnam War, when inflation-adjusted, cost $652 billion." [Another analysis describes an additional $900 billion to taxpayers should 75,000 US troops remain in Iraq over the next five years]
Robert A Sunshine, Assistant Director for Budget Analysis, Congressional Budget Office

"This is the consequence of going to war haphazardly and without a plan."
Brian Katulis, senior researcher, Center for American Progress

Lockheed Martin (95% of its revenues is derived from the US DoD): 34% more taxpayers money to special interest shareholders

Northrop Grumman Corp (manufacturer of military aircraft, defense electronics, precision weapons): 15% more taxpayers money to special interest shareholders

General Dynamics' Combat-Systems Unit: 19% more taxpayers money to special interest shareholders

Congressional Budget Office estimates that the medical and pharmaceutical industry will take an additional $13 billion from taxpayers should 75,000 troops remain in Iraq over the next few years.

Columbia University professor Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel Prize for economics in 2001, states that the total cost to taxpayers for the Iraq War will be $2 trillion dollars

Since September of 2006, the US debt has grown at nearly $1.5 billion per day, to where now the US debt is over $9 trillion. Right now, everyone in America, from those on life support and nursing homes to those just out of their mother's womb owes the US government/special interest corporate shareholders $30,000. Simply due to the Iraq War, each living human being in America will have a debt to the above-mentioned special interest shareholders amounting to an additional $6,000. This includes breast-feeding infants.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
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Karl Leuba Apr 6, 2008, 7:56am EDT
David you said it. You said It more dramatically than I could have but you certainly said it. I think I missed the part about the Soviet Mutually Assured Destruction Position regarding first strike nuclear attacks, but perhaps that policy has been rescinded. Of course, launching an aggression on the border of Russia might have serious consequences, unless the Russians were our allies in the attack.

If you wanna start a war, Elect McCain, Kiss your posterior portions good bye, and say hello to your maker. In the Immortal words of Tom Leher "We will all go together when we go, No one will have the endurance to collect on his insurance, Lloyd's of London Will be loaded when we go."
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 6, 2008, 9:06am EDT
Hi Karl,

The Chief of the Russian General Staff, Gen. Yury Baluyevsky has said that now twice this year, first in January and again last month. I translate a lot from the Danish Ritzau News Bureau, and saw it come across in Danish last month, and in researching it, saw he'd made a similar statement as recent as January Russian General Staff. It is saber rattling, of course, over the planned NATO/US deployment of defensive bases and missiles along Russia's border (supposedly to ward off an attack now it is my turn to *chuckle*by Iran or North Korea). But once someone that high up in the Russian military command makes such statements, it would not take much in today's real world to cement threats into action.

I cannot think what on Earth the White House is thinking of, in proposing these defensive systems along Russia, other than there are a lot of investors, including paradoxically in China, getting wealthy on Republican voters' paranoia. Most European NATO allies really do not wish these missiles to go up among former Warsaw Pack nations, for several reasons, one being that Europe gets a lot of gas and oil from Russia, but also out of a sense that this is no way to build bridges in a time of so much absolutely stupid and totally unnecessary turmoil.
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 6, 2008, 9:12am EDT
Oh, and in terms of McCain, I am beginning to feel that he still has some old trauma anger issues over his years in captivity in VietNam. He deserves great respect for his bravery through all that. I remember well the circumstances of his and other US aviators stories occasionally filtering out of Vietnam at the height of the Johnson end of the war, and then his release.

But we do not need that sort of unfinished emotional business being the trigger of White House actions. It's odd, because until a year ago, I really had considered him a viable candidate deserving of my vote from Denmark (I have that privilege). I'm an independent.
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jJack Midknight Apr 6, 2008, 10:52am EDT
I'm always the one that doesn't "get it" when I'm around all these delicate geniuses of the left *chuckle*

Yeah, I'm the one that doesn't "get it" boys, you betcha *double chuckle*


Please, don't address a single word I've offered, please, don't try to debate ME like you debate all the other people, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, just ignore every point of FACT I've presented, and just call me names.

I love to be called names by the delicate geniuses of the left.

Don't bother with the FACT the MCA doesn't say what you think it says, don't bother with the FACT China has a vested interest in making sure the USA stays solvent, don't even consider the FACT Japan has been "financing our debt" for DECADES now, and has no financial, military, or domestic reason to stop "financing our debt."

PLEASE just forget ALL of that and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find more noxious ways of engaging the politics of personal destruction when you attack ME instead of the FACTS I present, PLEASE just focus on MOI MOI MOI, as I deserve ALL of your feeble minded attention, MOI, yes MOI, look at MOI and call me all of the childish little names you can think of, make sure you include the fact you are SUPERIOR and I am INFERIOR, yes yes yes, tell us all what geniuses YOU are, and what an idiot I am, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE do ALL of these things, do them all and then I can be sure you really do love MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! *chortle*
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 6, 2008, 11:35am EDT
And in spite of all the economic and moral logic from all corners of the world, from the far right to the far left and everything in between, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al invaded a foreign land like bullies in a play-yard, and now the world is suffering like never before...

Don't tell me about "logic" or sound economic policy when most of last century's history describes how the world blew into flames whenever economic logic just didn't ad up to a hill of beans.
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Jerry Kays Apr 6, 2008, 5:30pm EDT
Thanks Dave, as for our potential of creating the scenario that your article describes, I am not as optimistic as you are, naturally, because I probably look at different factors, many of which are subjectively spiritual, as to the possible "reasons" that some in power may have, to do ("cause") certain things.

I tend to attempt to balance out the promised perfection of God along with mankind's habits of screwing things up ... and God allows us to do that as part of our evolutionary "learning process" (trial and error supposedly teaching us) ...

At some point, as has so often been seen in history, when things get just so, "the straw that breaks the camels back" falls upon the load and all hell breaks lose ... and it is NEVER intended ... some people just never seem to learn to cease and desist.


Bent, you bring up so many salient events and quotations that have a true bearing on these issues, would that the critically responsible people in our government take them to heart. So oft the perspective from other shores is lost upon the citizens of this nation ... understandable, considering our "free and liberal" (NOT) media ... :-(


jJ, what goes around comes around sometimes (always in eternity) ... you have called me derisively and dismissively "an old man", as you have done repeatedly with one of my Gather friends much older and much wiser than both of us together, who participates on Gather also seeking for loving understanding between the peoples on this earth, and because he is over 80 years old (and sharp as a tack and extremely intelligent) you act towards him as if he were senile as you ridicule him even though he is exceedingly polite and forgivable towards you ...

I suspect that your father must have been abusive to you and you must hate older people ... ? :-)

Anyway, whatever happened to you, it has made you very surly which causes you to bite the hands that attempt to feed you (good information) ... is it any wonder that you are criticised by so many so often ... the reason is you, not us ... think about it. When you think others acting in superiority, that is just your own deeper knowing that your attitude is probably inferior ... it is all about "attitude", not intelligence ... IMnsHO. :-) (NOT meant as a "put down") ...
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jJack Midknight Apr 6, 2008, 7:35pm EDT
*ROFL* isn't that SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET *ROFL*

berry berry is standing up for Richard Maefi or whatever his stupid GEEZER name is *ROFL*

Nuttin' happened to me ace, that's just your silly imagination *ROFL* what a loser
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Kevin Duffy Crovo Apr 6, 2008, 7:42pm EDT
For the record, I've been Independent all my life and haven't voted for a democratic president since Kennedy
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J. G. Weddle Apr 7, 2008, 9:06am EDT
Very impressive and well thought out scenerio.(I hope it doesn't happen.)
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 7, 2008, 4:19pm EDT
It won't, JG Weddle, but only because...
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Carol Lloyd Apr 7, 2008, 6:52pm EDT
truth and fiction are bedfellows indeed in this case. And we decide which is right and which is an illusion. Moody Blues Nights in White Satin.
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James C. Apr 7, 2008, 8:51pm EDT
Can someone tell me if our revolutionary army, not being able to afford uniforms and the United States having no flag, be considered unlawful enemy combatants? In fact, there was no country formed to authorize any army or action.
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James C. Apr 7, 2008, 8:54pm EDT
Dave,

It certainly bugs some persons when you speculate about possible scenarios, doesn't it?
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 7, 2008, 10:34pm EDT
James... and the Britts considered the whole Minutemen thing very terrorist--

Boy that's a balsie thing for me to say...

But it's only said to bring perspective into very diametrically opposed POVs
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Dave McGill Apr 8, 2008, 1:27pm EDT
Amen, Tony....
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James C. Apr 9, 2008, 2:33am EDT
Bent,

To the British, the minutemen were terrorists. They represented no country, they had no uniforms, they were a rag tag group of terrorists. They would be "unlawful enemy combatants" to this administration. The country was founded after the war was over.
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jJack Midknight Apr 9, 2008, 9:17am EDT
Can someone tell me if our revolutionary army, not being able to afford uniforms and the United States having no flag, be considered unlawful enemy combatants? In fact, there was no country formed to authorize any army or action.

That's such a BULLSHIT argument, it is RIDICULOUS.....

Moody Blues Nights in White Satin.

*ROFL* apparently Carol uses rock and roll lyrics to flesh out her opinions on things *ROFL*
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Dave McGill Apr 9, 2008, 10:34am EDT
Did the IRAN-ATTACK clock move a few sedonds closer to midnight yesterday?

Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, announced the Iran has begun tripling the number of uranium enrichment centriguges from 3,000 to 9,000 at its underground facility at Natanz.

At the same time, Israel held a massive disaster drill, yesterday, with 1,700,000 children heading for shelters.
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 9, 2008, 12:07pm EDT
Dave, this White House... even Capitol Hill for the most, is so far up their collective arses that they have no idea which is right and which is an illusion. The italics is what the the True Americans once called counting coup - to Jj - oddly mixing two European languages to create the term.

There is far more saber rattling going on now from all sorts of places in the world than even during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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jJack Midknight Apr 9, 2008, 2:58pm EDT
uhmmmm... a quick dash and a slap, aren't much of a victory, except perhaps on the grade school playground...
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James C. Apr 9, 2008, 3:08pm EDT
jJack,

It may be, as you say, bullshit, but you can't argue the truth of it! Sorry bout that!
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 9, 2008, 3:16pm EDT
jJack, as James says.

...Also, you might want to consider that that a quick dash and a slap also was a generally bloodless way to settle a serious conflict.
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jJack Midknight Apr 9, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
you can't argue the truth of it

That's because there is NO TRUTH TO IT WHATSOEVER---- it's all conjecture and lies.

a generally bloodless way to settle a serious conflict

oh yeah ??? NAME ONE INSTANCE when such a "coup" was sufficient.....
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Bent Lorentzen Apr 9, 2008, 8:35pm EDT
jJack, I'm not even going to bother with that one. If you live in America and wave a flag with 50 stars, you had better learn the history of your land.


Stripping all this of its "Dancing with Wolves" romanticism, the Sioux... the Crow, and other tribes of the Great Plains, often to settle inter- or extra-tribal squabbles that could have become bloody wars, evolved this system... Didn't always work, but it was sometimes insisted upon by the matrilineal women elders, who pretty much controlled descendency, land and inheritance and who understood the value of life, when the warriors sat in council to figure out issues...

Do some real reading
Counting Coup, with basketball and Little Big Horn, for modern reading in philosophy

Counting Coup, interpretative legal perspective

Counting Coup, modern interpretation

Counting Coup, history of inter-tribal warfare

It was far more honorable to count coup than to slaughter another human being.
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jJack Midknight Apr 10, 2008, 9:46pm EDT
I'm not even going to bother with that one.

Probably because you can't live up to the hype of your own words *chuckle*

..Also, you might want to consider that that a quick dash and a slap also was a generally bloodless way to settle a serious conflict.

Well, which "serious conflict" was settled by a slap ??? *double chuckle*

You don't seem to be able to name one, unless, you can't be, no, you don't think "little big horn" is a good example do you ??? *triple chuckle*

There's a reason you don't see indians around much bubba--- they are a defeated race, merely a quaint memory in the scrap book of time.

Whitey wiped them out, remember???
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Ramzy S. Apr 17, 2008, 3:46pm EDT
You should convert this into a screenplay. Only thing I can compare it is Sum of All Fears and that movie stunk.
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Sophiya S. Apr 28, 2008, 3:21pm EDT
interesting
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Jessica I. May 9, 2008, 2:19pm EDT
very well written. thanks for sharing.
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Paula C. Mar 6, 2009, 3:18pm EST
This is to let you know that your content has reached at least 20 comments and therefore has been removed from I want it All

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Webfetti.com

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