One can group things pretty much any way one wishes, verbally. One can then think or speak of such a grouping as if a distinct thing unto itself. It's a handy way to simplify matters in order to reason or discuss complex realities, but it is also an easy way to generate illusions which render one's reasoning, irrational.
Sometimes we humans literally mock this vulnerability, such as with what one might call; 'Blond jokes'. That particular version of "them" humor, seems understood by the vast majority of folks to be harmless, even liberating, since it demonstrates the human mind's tendency to group people for silly reasons. It is taken for granted that being blond does not actually constitute a meaningful indication of one's foolishness or gullibility, nor much of anything else really. It's a metaphor, and a good way to tell jokes about stupidity, without insulting real individuals.
Unfortunately, it seems to me, most people don't hesitate to group human beings in some very disparaging ways, for what are clearly egocentric, and often sinister, purposes. Sometimes I try to point this way of thinking and speaking out to those who do it, and am met with much incredulity, if not outright malice, in many instances. It is clear to me that many people are extremely blond about the whole practice of grouping folks, and haven't really comprehended the nature of "them-ism", which is to say, the illusory nature of thought.
One can generally tell quite easily who "gets it", by their use of language, as well as how they utilize the various "groupings" they speak of, in their reasoning. Often, it seems, others sense the problem of egocentric "theming", and refer to those who practice it as 'extremist'. Noticing others are extremist in this way, does not seem to inhibit the one noticing from themselves being extremist, to any appreciable degree, and often seems to incite that very tendency in the one who saw it in another.
The tendency to see extremism in others, but not oneself, is often called "political correctness". This is a form of meta-grouping, which generates the illusion that one is "correctly" grouping people, and identifying with the group that groups properly, and is appropriately antagonistic toward those who group unfairly, or maliciously, for purposes of self aggrandizement.
I fear such folks have crossed a line between sanity and insanity, which may render them out for the full count, so to speak. For they can see a thing is wrong to do, but cannot see themselves as wrong for doing it. They are blind (or more apropos, blond) to the illusion of them. Which ultimately means, they are blond to the illusions of 'I'.
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 40
If that is the premise of this article, I find myself in agreement with it, and hope that some of the solution lies in self analysis, and personal growth. There is no mystery to the subject, but it is a tough mission to accomplish. Tolerance is the first step, engagement is second, and full understanding and acceptance is the final step. Of course there may be occasions when it is necessary to reject, rather than accept, but they should be exceedingly rare.
Generalization is one of the nearly instinctive characteristics of the human mind. We tend to use small samples to judge large populations. The current fear and suspicion of Islam is a good example. A few hundred, perhaps a few thousand, individuals have gone on a rampage, adopting the most radical principals hinted at in the faith, and the result has been a general fear and loathing of all things Islamic.
The generalization leads to unjust accusation and reaction, further widening the gap between those who identify on either side of the issue. The anger and hate feeds more anger and hate, fear, and suspicion. The rhetoric and behavior ramp up to more and more violent behavior, and the end result is great destruction and generations of more fear and loathing.
There is a counter example, the Reconciliation Commission of the Union of South Africa. That single, and courageous political course may have had the effect of creating an integrated society where apartheid had been the rule of law for a long time.
While much of what you said there seems quite reasonable, and yes, in the vein of the article's intent, I find this;
"and full understanding and acceptance is the final step"
Somewhat puzzling. Just why would one wish to accept or reject an illusion? I realize it is not particularly easy, as you note, but is not the final step; Abandonment of the belief in a "them" at all?
You yourself, as I'm sure you are aware, are one of the people I tried to point this illusion out to, and whose reaction triggered this article. You seem quite sane, yet do not hesitate to speak of billions of human beings as if linked somehow, such that what one does, is in some sense the responsibility of someone thousands of miles, and perhaps even thousands of years, removed from them.
What I am beginning to doubt, is the ability of those caught in this trap, to extricated themselves. I certainly hope I am wrong, but do note that you see the problem in what others say and think, but do not seem to see the very same behaviours by yourself as wrong. Like virtually all such believers in "themism" whom I have challenged, there is a failure to grasp that the illusion generates the very rationales which the believer sees as justification for it's adherence in their particular instance.
You said in part: " ... the illusory nature of thought."
To me that states an equivalency with, that all humans are "sinners" ... a very "negative" view ...
Why would you think that thought is so "illusory" ? It may be an apt description in "your" case when it comes to "this" subject ... but I have much more "confidence" in "my" thoughts (and NON-sinner status) ... but that is because I, unlike you, DO believe that mankind and the spiritual realms DO share a common mind ... sensed by our INtuition ... just a different set of "priorities" between the two of us John ...
The difference between ego (lower self) thinking and higher Self thinking ... the literal "letter" of ... or the "essence" of ... IMnsHO.
"but I have much more "confidence" in "my" thoughts"
I have virtually no confidence in your thoughts.
You are a man prone to arguing against yourself, fervently, as this brilliant bit of double-talk illustrates quite well;
"you have none in your own, based upon your statements ... yet to the contrary, you seem to make claims that must be related to your thoughts"
" . . . otherwise where do you find the courage to claim that which is in this article?"
Mindless babble, if ever I heard it. I've NEVER argued that people ought not think for themselves, just that they ought not consider the results devine revelation. This is not a difficult concept for non-egomaniacs.
However, if thought is illusory in nature, I too would be illusory. But I doubt it. If I'm doubting, I must be thinking, because as you know, doubting by nature requires a thinker, therefore, I must be more than an illusion.
I commend your general "preference" in times of ignorance. It is surely wisdom to not speak in haste, since once we do speak, we are then bound to be bias in our own behalf, to some extent.
I did not mean to say there is no self, but spoke of the "illusions" of "I". While it is without a doubt a fact that the thinker exists, and it would be shear lunacy to doubt ones own, it does not follow that the human mind is not prone to much self deception. I doubt you would argue that.
Care to explain what is confusing about what I said? It seems rather obvious that Jerry exists, but not at all obvious that Jerry is not full of self delusion. That would apply to anyone, would it not?
I have many times, in great detail, attempted to enlighten you about a much more satisfactory way of "seeing" things, but you insist that you are right and I am wrong, that you are a humble sinner under your "book" interpretation of your relationship to the God of that Book, as if he were a King with certain specific expectations of you ... and there seems to be much Fear and idolization involved with "that" relationship ... IMnsHO.
I offer you the benefit of my own spiritual experience, which you say you have read, but do not understand ... then tell me that I am the one living with "illusory" (did you look that word up yet ? You should, it is very "negative"), and "delusional" ideas (thoughts only of the disconnected little people in my head) ...
I might as well (probably more so) say much the same of you and your thinking John, that being so much truer in your case, because you are the one that insists that there is NO connection between minds ... something that I say there IS.
But about the "mind-less" babble ... I do spend an inordinate amount of time slowly reading and re-reading your words in my very best attempt to understand what you are implying in your articles ... but you use so many double, triple, and sometimes even more, "negatives" (such as "not' ... "not") that it does seem like babble to me at times (often) ... but then, as you have pointed out, I could write "better" also (room for improvement) ... but I usually get by because I use the common mind of human-kind related to my intuition to "read between the lines" for the essence of the message based upon my trust of our spiritual commonality that you seem to reject ...
In a nutshell, I believe our thinking IS spiritually interconnected (a greater mind) and our intuition is our instrument of utilization of that connection ... I use it and you reject it.
I didn't think you'd explain what I asked about, you never have before. You don't seem to understand much of anything at all. Your entire wisdom amounts to little more than the story of 'The Three Bears', with you in the role of a Divine Goldie Locks, eternally sampling things and declaring nothing must be either too this or too that, but just right.
You grandly declare that people need to think for themselves and not settle for the cold porridge of authority, but if they do, you grandly proclaim the porridge is too hot. All truth rests squarely on your "subjective discernment" that whatever folks say or do should be "balanced" according to your "spiritual" taste. It's a religion of personal preference, and you prefer gibberish with lots of meaningless mysterious terms, that leaves you the only one capable of real "insight", though that is the only insight you generally offer. Yours is a vast and deep ignorance, raised to godhood. You have but to speak the magic word "higher", and that which you know nothing about, becomes that about which you are an unquestionable expert.
Always you refer people to great wisdom you found, or deposited, somewhere else, which will explain it all if folks just open their "dualistic" minds to it. Rarely do you actually explain anything you say, but never do you hesitate to claim you could, if only the listener were wise like you.
You're a holy-man fraud, Jerry, and obviously haven't taken the time to think through or learn doodely squat. When you're called on this, you just say "to each their own", as though that actually meant something. And that's why I have virtually no confidence in what you think.
I have attempted dozens of times to engage you in meaningful dialog, and you'll have none of it. I really don't believe you are capable of such a thing, and doubt you even realize you're not actually engaging. What you call "explanation", involves no bothering to answer direct questions or asking any yourself. It's just a spiel, just a vacuous bunch of vague terms and purported relationships between vague magical forces. There's nothing to explain really, I don't think, or you would not be so reticent in your interaction with me.
If you were REALLY interested in LEARNING rather than ARGUING, you would read my book with an OPEN MIND letting your INtuitive Spirit (which you seem to not trust) guide you to the TRUTH of it all.
As it is right now, we are speaking of two different languages, I understand yours better than you do, but because you do not understand mine you deny it.
But again, as usual, and ever so true; To Each Their Own !
Oh boy, what a fine explanation; "ego". What a brilliant logician. And that spiel about "letting my INtuitive Spirit" guide me", that's a real meaningful thought there, you capitalized the 'in' of the word 'intuitive' and everything. It's gibberish sir, not extra special truth. It's a mindless repetition of homemade dogma, demonstrating the utter inability to relate any of your concepts to anything but the most cliche aspects of "pop religion", on a par with waiving the magic wand of Karma, to "explain" how everything "balances" in the end.
Here's how one actually explains the weakness in someones reasoning; Today, here, you say;
" . . . but I usually get by because I use the common mind of human-kind related to my intuition to "read between the lines" for the essence of the message . . . "
Now, how is it that you are using the "common mind of human-kind" to intuit things you day-in and day-out proclaim that the common mind is not aware of? If the whole world is not aware of your special truth, why are you calling what you're relating to "the common mind"? It makes no sense to ask people to invest in some "commonality" which you yourself denounce on a daily basis.
" . . . based upon my trust of our spiritual commonality that you seem to reject . . . "
Again, this is nonsensical; You are here, ostensibly, to awaken folks to a "spiritual commonality", which is already proclaimed by every major religious tradition, and you can't possibly believe, I don't believe, we have a "spiritual commonality". Obviously, it's not your trust in our spiritual commonality I reject, but rather, your trust in YOUR spiritual UN-commonality I reject. It's your egocentric trust in your particular, and blatantly uncommon, belief in your own Divinity, I am calling foolishness. The "common spirituality" of mankind, has utterly rejected such egocentric self-worship, and it is the "unspiritual" that embrace such "Me-ism" as you trumpet.
<< " . . . but I usually get by because I use the common mind of human-kind related to my intuition to "read between the lines" for the essence of the message . . . "
Now, how is it that you are using the "common mind of human-kind" to intuit things you day-in and day-out proclaim that the common mind is not aware of? If the whole world is not aware of your special truth, why are you calling what you're relating to "the common mind"? It makes no sense to ask people to invest in some "commonality" which you yourself denounce on a daily basis. >>
John, it is NOT I that has denounced the "common mind", it is you. You have claimed many times that all thoughts of one person, concerning another, is but their, non-connected to others, imaginations, ILLUSORY "little people" limited to their own head.
People that think like you do are doomed to such egotistic thoughts of complete separation (except for 5 sensory experience). Such "separation" prevents the spiritual sharing that happens because you would deny it. I do NOT deny it, I promote it, our COMMON SPIRIT INsures it for those that allow. I allow! It is you who does NOT !
<< " . . . based upon my trust of our spiritual commonality that you seem to reject . . . "
Again, this is nonsensical; You are here, ostensibly, to awaken folks to a "spiritual commonality", which is already proclaimed by every major religious tradition, and you can't possibly believe, I don't believe, we have a "spiritual commonality". Obviously, it's not your trust in our spiritual commonality I reject, but rather, your trust in YOUR spiritual UN-commonality I reject. It's your egocentric trust in your particular, and blatantly uncommon, belief in your own Divinity, I am calling foolishness. The "common spirituality" of mankind, has utterly rejected such egocentric self-worship, and it is the "unspiritual" that embrace such "Me-ism" as you trumpet. >>
John, I seem to get from "that", that it is ONLY YOUR SPIRITUAL (Christianity as you know it) "commonality" then, that QUALIFIES to have an interconnection of minds ? (which is nothing you have ever admitted to ((connection of minds)) before).
But I have often said that we create our own reality by the way we think and that it is co-created (secondarily) by the way that those we associate with think. That is done both, through the shared mind (implicit thoughts) as well as the overt manifested activities (explicit actions).
So then we have a world with the greatest preponderance of believed evidence derived from the "like thinkers" (say, in your case, Christianity) as the INput to the common mind that I speak of ... that allows me to understand far better that mass thought when I INtuitively "tap into" it ... but is also prevents you and "your kind" from picking up on the relatively few of us that think alike (differently than the crowd) ... all of THAT because it is "your" kind that are the sheeple, all thinking the same way, that of each other's views, just as your religions have taught you ERRONEOUSLY all of the years of history. IF you folks would look INside of yourselves to the INTUITIVE that is DIRECTLY connected to your own Soul and thus to God, you would discover the truths that I speak of, you would better connect to the Spiritual Mind of God directly instead of beeing constantly "fooled" by the more "shallow" (yet massively powerful) mind of your surface thinking leaders and "peers" ...
It has always been the Prophets that have brought new revelation to the masses of common folks (Jesus was but one of many), but the INSTITUTIONALISED religions have denied that any but the ones of old could do that ... you are all thus locked into your ancient past, based upon church dogma and creed which LIMITS you !
History will eventually prove, or at least show, that those such as myself, with our unique experiences of a spiritual nature, who sought truth and found it, are but modern prophets, actual small "g" gods, REAL Sons of the Father and Brothers of Christ, divinity ... at least of a sort.
But YOUR leaders and authorities have scared you into believing this possibility, that ALL such will be FALSE and in league with SATAN ... the very same kind of fear tactics the right-wing uses on the nation concerning everything.
I could go on and on John, but you would never allow there to be any truth to what I say ... thus I only spend the time with you any more because there may be OTHERS reading that seek such truths ... truths are relative and some ARE far more transcendent than others ...
To each their own ... there is a season and a time ... Peace, j.
I really don't know how to explain to someone so egocentric that when you declare I ought to listen to MY intuition, that would be MY intuition, not YOURS. What YOUR intuition provokes in YOUR mind, is not something I can "listen to", just you. MY intuition does not provoke the same things in me, as YOURS does in you. I do listen to MY intuition, and you are telling me to REJECT that, and take up authority games by somehow pretending that what Jerry feels, is what I feel. Get it? You're the one telling me to IGNORE my intuition, NOT to listen to it, cause some dude named Jerry thinks it's invalid.
You are denouncing MY "spiritual intuition", and calling it useless non-sense. You are telling me to reject MY spiritual intuition, and instead worship Jerry the self declared holy man's adolescent imaginings. It is totally contradictory to what you keep repeating, without any apparent comprehension of what the words you're saying actually mean. I CANNOT "listen to my spiritual intuition", if I fill my head with your dogmatic egocentric rantings.
I have NEVER told YOU to listen to MY intuition ... only to listen to your own WHILE SEEKING ONLY ULTIMATE TRUTH ... if you have ever thought otherwise then that, it only proves you have never understood my words ... I assure you that I do fully comprehend my own words ... and as I have said, sometimes yours, better than you seem to do. Two languages, remember ?
The egocentricity is withIN you John, that is why you think you see so much of it in me ... it is ALL that you really seem to know ... normal for normal people I grant you ... been there done that.
My whole message has been to look deep INside to "your" higher Self, that which transcends your lower (ego) self ... how is it that you cannot understand that ? Is it because you have been "conditioned" by religions to think that Spirit will come from UP there or OUT there ? ... That is the most logical answer ... but Spirit is NOT only logic, it is primarily Subjective ...
Today is probably the first time that you have ever even acknowledged that you use your intuition as far as I remember ... all indications you have given before is that such thoughts are little people in ones head, yours included, NOT to be trusted, just an ILLUSION. You are making some progress IF you now value your intuition ... but I'll bet that your bottom line priority is STILL based upon the 5 physical senses ... the primary reality of the ego.
ALL I have ever tried to do is tell you folks how and why I came to finding out the truths that I have, because that is what I sought the most, TRUTH, and thus is what finally set me free ... such freedom scares the crap out most people, too conditioned by a life of fear mongering by society in general ... but IF "that" is what you prefer, it is your decision.
"I have NEVER told YOU to listen to MY intuition . . . "
Bullshit, you hypocritical infant-man. You do it every freakin day;
" . . . all of THAT because it is "your" kind that are the sheeple, all thinking the same way, that of each other's views, just as your religions have taught you ERRONEOUSLY all of the years of history."
That's YOU asshole, proclaiming real live human beings are nothing but little automatons, based on the fact that you can see them that way in your freakin' imagination. How "unconditionally loving" of you to dehumanize billions of people cause they don't agree with your "Spiritual INtuition". What a paradise we would be living in if everyone became so "unconditionally loving" of others. What a moron.
You're a veritable poster-child for the hazards of falling for the illusion of them. You've obviously never come within a country mile of ultimate truth. You're still foolish enough to believe people are just like the silly cartoon-like representations you can generate when you think about "them". You still don't understand that every bigoted nutcase can generate the same sorts of simpleton images of those they despise, and suffer from the same ego-maniacal delusions of "seeing the real truth", cause they're too stupid to comprehend that everybody gets one of those imagination thingies, and it's NOT an indication they are gods.
My "spiritual intuition" tells me you're insane. It also tells me to stay the hell away from worshipping my own imagination, if I want to stay sane.
Oh, my, are you going to cliche me into submission, pal?
Gee whiz, and here I was, looking forward to another "explanation" of how UNconditional love means attacking people and their faith, cause they don't see things like oneself. You know, the deal where your Higher Self is gettin' all them INtuitions and stuff, so you can't be wrong in attacking others for having the wrong Spiritual attitude, or thinking the wrong things about She/He/It/They/We/God ? Where you say it's only fair, cause them little Christians in your head are doing that to you all the time?
I followed you as I appreciated a comment you posted ... well, somewhere :) It's all slipped my mind while wading through the above. One thing separates the two of you.
One sees the 'i am' as himself. The other see the 'I AM' as another. Fight on . . .
So, we are stuck with grouping people into "types" to study them, even though each of us is unique.
Surely dehumanizing conceptualizations are an "occupational hazard" some must deal with, as best they can. I remember hearing many times, that psychiatrists commit suicide at a rather much higher rate than average . . . as do others who deal with humans under conditions which require some degree of dehumanizing, like soldiers, and police, and doctors . . . A difficult thing no doubt., maintaining one's "humanity", while having to set it aside frequently . . .
I apologize for the language, which I very rarely use so bluntly, but felt was appropriate to express the deep and truly dark nature of this rhetorical game which has become a staple of those who seek to make their egocentric impulses out to be "Spiritual" guidance. Under such declared labels, they claim immunity of a sort, from criticism of their "beliefs". Its a "wolves in sheep's clothing" charade, which I see eventually leading to massive deception, and even persecution of those who refuse to bow before this god sprung newly up.
As Glome seems to have "guessed", consciously or unconsciously, I actually wrote the article in anticipation of the dialog which followed. Jerry is about as useful an example as I can find here, and I knew he would "take the bait". Indeed, I don't even write much anymore for he turns whatever I produce into a circus of his egocentric dogma, and so effectively isolates me, as an author here.
Many will come, I think, using the cloak of "spirituality" to defame those who hold to the wisdom of the Book, claiming that to do so injures them, and any who do not. The "generic" god of self, with its proclaimed "acceptance", will be used to justify all manner of attack on those who reject it, and very many will join the mob, in the name of ending the "damage" that Book and God has supposedly done to the whole world. All the guilt, and pain, and sorrow, will be focused on Him . . . and the "them", which the mob believes brought Him into existence. I believe we are witnessing the "falling away".
I was glad to see that you finally put it into writing John, your "baiting" of me ... and you do it often and that is why I have to keep an eye on you and debate you, because you are "sneaky" and underhanded in the "way" you do it ... pretending innocence usually and that probably fooling those who know you not as well as I do. After all, you are the one that initially two years ago claimed that you would hound me and my concepts to show me to the Gather community for what I was all about as far as you are convinced ... anything dealing with you now is more of a self defense act than an attack on you John ... it is always you that begins the personal attacks ... of course that cannot be helped when I tell the truth that you still come from an ego perspective ... it is always the ego that fears everyone and everything as a challenge to it's very "self" ... never wanting to consider that there is a higher Self withIN ... The very SOUL of the person, the physically objectified 5 sensory oriented exoteric egomania self of course sees "that" as a threat even to be denied and fought off tooth and nail ...
John, as I have said often of late, I no longer write for your sake, because you are too stubborn to learn anything new and better, I write for the readers that come along, at least those that are not as narrow minded and fearful as yourself ... those that are still like you and insist that that is the way to be, will most certainly be amongst those that go the "other" way ...
It really is those that wise up to the truth, the esoteric truth, that will "fall away" from the "church" of old, away from the divisive egotistical dualism of "I am right and therefore you are wrong" (+/-) ... I think it is so sad that you and "yours" John, find the "fault" in me and mine ... but that is your God granted free will choice, go for it if it means so much to you ... you will be none the wiser for it though.
In all of my "preaching" the bottom line issue I always insist upon is that people seek the highest truth available to them ... and I explain that I have found it INternally through my own Soul as an UNconditionally Loving God ... yet people like yourself FEAR that ... that is really SAD.
The Book is incapable of doing damage. It is only an illusion in the minds of those who would see it in such a way. One of the reasons I do not see it to be taken literally is that it is a Book that has meaning for all people and for all times. As one who has studied the Bible in some depth, I know it is very complex to understand when literally interpreted. There are also some discrepancies. These are, however, from translation and not from the inspired Word as it was meant to be relayed.
The Bible's message is simple and therein lies its significance. Certainly, for believers who have a solid foundation in Christ, we can find the answers to all of life's problems clearly implied in its pages.
When what that should be as most important, the subjective and Spiritual message would be about a potential "Spiritual New Jerusalem" and reunification of ALL 12 Tribes of Israel ... etc. (Never intended to be done via the conquest of wars).
IMnsHO.
You don't even know what's in the Book. Just assuming it's filled with whatever you like is something you can do, but not me.