There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
I'm slow this morning. One flaw I see is that "treat them..." doesn't go with conversation. Saying and doing are, usually, two different things. It's also redundant in a redundancy for emphasis kind of way. I'm not positive on the collective noun number thing--is "family" one of those singular/plural hybrids--but it seems like "them" should be "it" even though it sounds funny.
It's also a little on the verbose side. If I were editing it for someone I'd suggest:
"I have never heard Mary speak of her family disrespectfully or fail to treat family members with respect."
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
"in any of my conversations with Mary" is not really an exclusive clause so you don't need both commas. You did not need to repeat Mary's name, a pronoiun would be fine and you could lose that comma after "way" I'm a bit of a punctuation geek so don't think I'm anti comma. They can start breeding like rabbits though.
I would write it like this...
"There has never been a time in any of my conversations with Mary when I heard her talk about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect."
If you were writing a pice to be spoken or read aloud you could inset a comma after "Mary" to allow the speaker a breath.
Well, Nippy, would you say that the last part of the compound sentence or treat them with any disrepsect is out of place? The person has begun the sentence with the prepositional phrase, In her conversations with Mary, How can the person determine whether Mary has treated her family members with repsect or not through a conversation? I can see how she can say that she has not heard Mary speak of them disrespectfully, but T can't see how she can convey the last part accurately with the beginning phrase in place.
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
I would have written,
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary when I've heard her speak in a disrespectful manner towards her family, nor have I ever witnessed her actions to be anything other than respectful.
, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
I might say later to the person, I thought you were at Mary's house last week and you told me they had a huge argument and Mary was disrespectful to them. According to the sentence as stated, Mary defends this by repeating, I only said, "There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect. That was in my conversation, not in my observance.
Sorry Sue, i just came back to the computer as i was preping homemade potato salad and bbq chicken for dinner. I have not really attempted to tell you what's wrong with the sentence, because quite frankly, I want to give others a chance. I'm always winning your games and giving the correct answer.
"How can the person determine whether Mary has treated her family members with repsect or not through a conversation? "
I did mention that when I said, "One flaw I see is that "treat them..." doesn't go with conversation. Saying and doing are, usually, two different things."
The first two phrases should be reversed. There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, should read: In any of my conversations with mary, there has never been a time when i heard her..... Mary is used too many times, no pronouns.
And what Nippy is saying is also correct, and would have a need at least for a proposition in the remaining part of the sentence; when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
In any of my conversations with Mary, there has never been a time when I heard her talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or (of or about) treatING them with anything but respect.
It was grammatically wrong, Katie, but the incorrectness of the grammar was in sentence structure. When sentences are incorrectly structured, it can also affect the clarity of the sentence and make it ambiguous.
No Clarke, it's not at all redundant. We can be sure of that! The point is that the sentence makes no sense because of its structure, or the way it has been put together. That, my friend, is a part of grammar, as much as knowing where to put a comma. I've read some of what you've written. I wouldn't go there, if I were you.
This article was only for the purpose of making my point in the subsequent article. This article serves, absolutely, no purpose any longer. I don't suppose you realize that either, though.
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
I noticed the same thing as Nippy but reacted diffderently. Mary could "treat" her family in a disrespectful way by being dismissive of them or disparaging their efforts e.g. "Didn't your sister's boy do well Mary?" --- "He did OK I suppose but it was no big deal."
It is a clumsy sentence if written as fine prose but I read it as a line of dialogue between two friends who are so at ease with each other thery do not feel a need to mind their grammar. In that context it is perfectly believable and would work well in fictional dialogue where more formal grammar might make the dialogue seem stiff and unrealistic.
WOW, you sure garnered some interest with that sentence. Good job. I enjoyed reading the comments, hoefully I learned a thing or too. Thanks for generating some thinking.
and thanks too for commenting on my weekly Quick Tips 4 U article. I appreciate it.
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard her talk about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect.
The comma separating the final clauses is debatably incorrect, but I would say that the major problem is that the verb tenses don't agree. "There has never been a time" does not work with "I heard". They are both past tenses, but they are not the same past.
I would rewrite this sentence as
"There was never a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard her talk about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect."
OR
"There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I have heard her about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect."
Jonathan, you know this was just for the point in the next article. It has no meaning now. Thanks for the comment, though! Always nice to see you. I liked the other icon better though. I'm not a cat lover. :)
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Comments: 45
should be: when I have heard
?
the way heard is used is not used in the right tense for the sentence I think.
No, Priscilla, that's not it, but the tense could also be corrected to what you've noted..
It's also a little on the verbose side. If I were editing it for someone I'd suggest:
"I have never heard Mary speak of her family disrespectfully or fail to treat family members with respect."
"I've never known Mary to treat members of her family with disrespect or speak of them disrespectfully."
I don't know how to explain "what is wrong with the sentence"... because I'm grammarless....
but the same thing was said TWICE.
"in any of my conversations with Mary" is not really an exclusive clause so you don't need both commas. You did not need to repeat Mary's name, a pronoiun would be fine and you could lose that comma after "way"
I'm a bit of a punctuation geek so don't think I'm anti comma. They can start breeding like rabbits though.
I would write it like this...
"There has never been a time in any of my conversations with Mary when I heard her talk about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect."
If you were writing a pice to be spoken or read aloud you could inset a comma after "Mary" to allow the speaker a breath.
I would have written,
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary when I've heard her speak in a disrespectful manner towards her family, nor have I ever witnessed her actions to be anything other than respectful.
, when I heard Mary talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or treat them with anything but respect.
was I close?
Can you please respond to either the comment that I made to Nippy, or to my last comment?
I have not really attempted to tell you what's wrong with the sentence, because quite frankly, I want to give others a chance. I'm always winning your games and giving the correct answer.
I did mention that when I said, "One flaw I see is that "treat them..." doesn't go with conversation. Saying and doing are, usually, two different things."
There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary,
should read:
In any of my conversations with mary, there has never been a time when i heard her.....
Mary is used too many times, no pronouns.
In any of my conversations with Mary, there has never been a time when I heard her
talk about her family in a disrespectful way, or (of or about) treatING them with anything but respect.
English grammar is concerned.
This article was only for the purpose of making my point in the subsequent article. This article serves, absolutely, no purpose any longer. I don't suppose you realize that either, though.
I noticed the same thing as Nippy but reacted diffderently. Mary could "treat" her family in a disrespectful way by being dismissive of them or disparaging their efforts e.g. "Didn't your sister's boy do well Mary?" --- "He did OK I suppose but it was no big deal."
It is a clumsy sentence if written as fine prose but I read it as a line of dialogue between two friends who are so at ease with each other thery do not feel a need to mind their grammar. In that context it is perfectly believable and would work well in fictional dialogue where more formal grammar might make the dialogue seem stiff and unrealistic.
and thanks too for commenting on my weekly Quick Tips 4 U article. I appreciate it.
I would rewrite this sentence as
"There was never a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I heard her talk about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect."
OR
"There has never been a time, in any of my conversations with Mary, when I have heard her about her family in a disrespectful way or treat them with anything but respect."
"Sentence structure", "collective noun" and "tense"... aargh! I just remembered what I hated so much about English classes.
I really wanted to know what "OSA" means, but I didn't get my answer. Dang.