Obama's Pastor and Race in America

This guy is being chastized for telling it like it is? How low can we go people?

I am a white male, late 30s, college educated and raised in upper middle class America. It is my belief that the Reverend's comments, while divisive, are true. It is one thing to be patriotic (which I consider myself to be). It is another to challenge our government and our media (all of which is run by elite wealthy whites) for bad behavior. This is another Clintonian attempt to regain the white house. This has nothing to do with Barack Obama, and it will be an absolute shame if this has a negative impact on his candidacy.

It is interesting that news agencies have run with this story like they have; expressing all types of outrage and forcing Obama to distance himself from his Pastor. As "aggressive" as Jeremiah Wright's words may sound, the difference between his speeches and those of people like James Dobson, Jerry Fallwell or Hague (sp?), what separates Wright from the what these men have said is that Wright is telling the truth while the other pastors actually deliver hate-speech. One thing is to criticize your government when it is doing its people wrong, and another thing is to condemn a group of people based on their race, religion or sexual orientation.

I agree with Rev. Wright. He's preaching truth. I voted for Hillary in the primaries; I'm a white woman, I'm from what could be described as an upper-middle-class background. Until our nation can face its own truths--and until we elect a leader who can engage tough, nuanced issues meaningfully, we'll continue to be stuck with polarized, polarizing, and (frankly) unproductive political discourse. Obama has me to win over... I'll be tuning in for his speech and paying attention.

I agree. I'm also a middle class white woman who thinks Rev. Wright is speaking truth to power. I don't think he's completely right about Hilary, who as a woman also has to work harder than men to prove herself. Nonetheless, the fact that the media is spinning this toward controversy is so predictable yet so frustrating and disturbing and counterproductive.

While what he says is true, his way of saying is evil. To use foul language on the pulpit and have close ties to Farakan is disgusting. To use truth as an excuse for racism is equally disgusting. As for Obama, you are known by whom you keep company with. He's not a presidential candidate for all the people. I thought OBama was a savior, now I think he's just a pig like the rest.

"I agree with Rev. Wright. He's preaching truth"

MaryHelen,

Do you have inside information that verifies Rev. Wright comment that white people invented AIDS to kill Africans? Please share.

Anyone who can honestly say that truth is being preached by Rev. Wright are living in a box....and its an old one....Lord people, do your research before you make that statement....This is most definitely a negative mark on Mr. Obama...and his explanation for his preachers comments (which are not substantiated by the Bible) today were very shallow...very shallow....

Simply stated, Jeremiah Wright was/is speaking bigoted, racist hate speech. There is no other way to state it. Further, listening to what Obama said about his Mother yesterday, while defending a hate spewing Reverend, a quote from his book
"Dreams of My Father":

" I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

suddenly takes on much more clarity...it does not speak well of a man when he is willing to sully his own mother's reputation before the world to defend a man guilty of hate speech.

"How do you hear the message of Jeremiah Wright? "

I hear it as the words of a person sharing their anger about the way people are treated badly; I hear it as a rant against poor, inconsiderate, and abusive treatment.


"What does it mean for the candidate who wants to move beyond race?"

It means making sure we address inequitable and abusive treatment wherever it rears its ugly head.

After watching the Fox news (ugh) video compilation of Jeremiah Wright's sermons I would say that Wright did speak truth to power but mixed in a lot of anger, bitterness, hatred, prejudice and flights of fancy.

After watching the entirety of Barack Obama's speech on race I would have to say that this was a stirring speech, perhaps the best American speech since Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous "I have a dream" speech at the Washington monument.

I have been in favour of Hillary Clinton winning the presidency and remain so, though calling me a supporter would be a stretch if only because as a Canadian without a vote to offer my support would be a dubious benefit at best. Clinton, I feel, is harshly disparaged for no discernable reason. It seems that all of the worst feelings about her husband have been transferred to her (even blame for staying with him despite his sexual pecadillos, while Bill himself gets a free pass from many Americans for not keeping it in his pants). All the best feelings relating to the Clinton administration seem to have clung to Bill while Hillary has to carry the baggage. She was one of the most powerful and infulential First Ladies in American history, in an administration that looks better with each passing minute of the Bush debacle. She is the twice elected Senator from New York. She is a symbol of women perhaps finally achieving the highest office in the land and shattering, for once and for all, the glass ceiling.

I have also favoured Clinton over Obama because I feel she is more electable. Hillary Clinton has had almost sixteen years of being raked over the coals by the predominantly right-wing mass media. They had dug into every moment of her past looking for aspersions to cast. She has been accussed of financial malfeasance and even murder, but nothing has been proven against her despite investigations that put even the cast of every CSI spin-off to shame. They had said everything they can about the woman and she is still standing and still moving towards her goal.

Obama is new to the scene and the negatives, including his association with Wright, are still coming to light. His familial connectuion to a Muslim heritage at a time when Islam is widely seen as an enemy of America may be heavy baggage to carry through a presidential race. His admission of rather serious drug usage in his past will also come under greater scrutiny than it has as of yet. Some long ago passing acquaintance will no doubt be dug up a la "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" and be funded by shadowy neo-con forces to trumpet their unfounded claims of extensive involvement in drugs and gang activity on Obama's part. These things, along with the obvious racial issues and his unfortunate middle name, will represent major obstacles to overcome to reach the White House.

I think Barack Obama will be harder to elect than Hillary Clinton. For that reason alone I think Clinton is worth supporting to ensure that the fascists running the Republican party are thrown out of office so they can face criminal charges for what they've done to America and the world over the last eight years.

But I long for an America in which a man of Barack Obama's obvious talents and ability can be elected president. He is a dynamic, bold and courageous leader.

Obama has stated he never heard his pastor speak like this - do you believe him? As quoted above he himself wrote
" I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE". Me thinks he is caught here in an explicit lie and it should be pointed out. Of course some of what the Wright spews is true: the U.S. did bomb Hiroshima - but is the U.S. to blame for 9/11? Hillary was never called a "nigger" and
blacks have suffered in America and bias still hangs around - but did the U.S. government introduce AIDS into their communities? Fact is, Obama was not born into this church, he
CHOSE it, and he stayed in it and was one of its pastor's largest donors over TWENTY years. He considers this hate spewing pastor as his "Mentor." Who do you think will be
his spiritual advisor in the White House - if not the one of the last twenty years. Obama's
wife of "I am proud of my country for the first time" fame, has evidently internalized the
pastor's views and attitudes. Do we really want her to be our "First Lady?" Obama is
a great orator, but pretty words cannot undo the shadow this casts on him and his wife.

FoxNews, all "white" anchors, Hmmmmmmmmm. So easy for them judge, they've never been discrimnated against because of th colour of their skin.

I would like to hear from people of color about specific examples of discrimination against them. My husband is not white and from another country and has done very well here. He sees the U.S. as mostly a meritocracy and hasn't felt that his skin color has been a factor.

The black people I have interacted with in my life have all been educated, professionals. If there is pervasive discrimination, why are there black doctors, teachers, computer programmers, school administrators like the ones I know?

I would really like to hear people's life experiences on this!

The question is not "HOW do I hear the message from Reverend Wright" but as Andrew Young so aptly put it, how do we pull people into the conversation, and become part of the solution together, rather than seperating and pulling us apart. I think that Sen. Obama's speech did more to help the conversation, and bring the race issue into a real conversation. I also heard the conservative polsters view, and think he makes a valid point that we all must listen to.

Rev. Wright has the right as an American to speak his mind, the war where in is god damn discrace and the fact that we engage in torture has damn America in the eyes of most of the worlds people.
Has the revenge of 9-11 been paid, has the belly of the beast taken its fill, has freedom taken hold in the soil of Islam. And if not, why not and hold long will it be before we see the green bud of a future harvest, after the lost of 4,000 lives, 29,000 casualties and 3 trillion in tax payer monies spent. And never forget Rev. Wright wore the uniform of a Marine to protect his and other their right to free speech, whether you like it or not.

What Wright has said, in context, is neither shocking, or untrue, but it does make for a fast growing swiftboating of a man that has never expressed, or believed, any of the sort of comments that he, himself, has spoken out against, more than once, for those that have their own reasons to want to swiftboat him.

I liked Barack Obama's speech, for me it was a point in his favor.

I have always had a softspot for "liberation" theology, whether in Black America, or South America, or anywhere else, the basic morality of this world is a subject that is hardly addressed anywhere or anytime.

I think Wright is kind of a crackpot, but every preacher I have ever heard is kind of a crackpot since I am not much into religion, and I am also not much into bashing religion either. They are science crackpots as well, like Shockley, and Watson who have said some peculiar things. It does not rub off on the people who know them and does not diminish the important work and discoveries they have made.

Everyone has weird ideas, or ways of expressing their ideas, and that should not be the issue. What they do with those ideas, and where they want to lead people should be the issue.

Another thing is that in private most people express doubts about what is going on in the world, who or what is in control, if anything, and how messed up things are. That is one of the important things religion should touch on and provoke, the sharing of ideas and feelings in the common environment of a genuine positive attempt to criticize and motivate progress.

Rory:
> I would say that Wright did speak truth to power but mixed
> in a lot of anger, bitterness, hatred, prejudice and flights of fancy.

I don't really blame him. I have known a few black people and try
as they may it is very common for angry comments or outbursts or
paranoid ideas to be expressed from them.

At least getting these comments out in a church, the haven where
things are supposed to be postive and productive and discussed
with an eye towards morality is better than in some secet underground
group of suicide bombers, in fact it is productive, whatever we may
think of it, or whatever guilt or fear it might at first provoke in other
Americans.

I'm wondering if that is not the issue ... that "America", the shining
city on the hill does not want to acknowledge its real legacy, bad
along with good.

I am totally willing to see that the US has made lots of mistakes, but
it does not make me want to reteat from involvement in the world,
it makes me want us to get it right, and do it right, and confront
evil and injustice in other countries, as well as here at home.

I support the action in the middle east against Islamic tyranny,
and I can say I believe 100% for sure that when the Middle East
can accept people in their societies that are as critical of them as
Wright is of our society the world will be a much better place, and
progress will have been made.

I heard enough of Rev. Wright's comments to make the decision to turn him off.

How dare a minister (ANY minister, priest, rabbi, etc) go before the public and share intimate, private (even sacred if you will) information and communication about one of the patrons of his church, synagogue, parish, etc.

Senator Obama has pulled his own skeletons out of the closet on more than one occassion during this campaign. His speech this week has given the rest of us (black, white, green, or any other "color" that's floating around our country) cause to do the same thing. Are you a bigot? If so, fine. Be miserable within yourself as the rest of this nation finally faces up to the future. 9/11 is history. Viet Nam is history. Slavery is history. Barefoot and pregnant for women is history. Remember it. Honor it. And leave it in the past where it IS!

Hello.

Just stopping by to tell you that I noticed this article is featured on Gather's homepage right now!

Here's a 10 rating & have a nice day. :o)

This OnPoint discussion was continued on March 19 for all who are interested.

Obama's speech, if you actually listened (and I advise reading it, as text too) should answer everyone's questions about this relationship between Obama and Wright. I was impressed by the number of comments that saw through the Fox spinmasters hysteria.

who cares about wright ??? I sure don't, and I don't care what he preaches, or if it is true or not.

obammie isn't wright and wright isn't obammie, you can't blame one man for the words of another.

Obama's wanting to move beyond race, as you say, is the reason so many of us white folks wanted to vote for him. Now you have to wonder, does he really?

Imagine the cries of racisim if McCain frequented a church whose pastor spoke half as vehemently about black people. Heck, McCain wouldn't get most white votes much less black votes.

Tom,

I was kind of shocked when Newsweek's Lisa Miller casually referred to Jeremiah Wright's "hate speech" and you didn't catch it. The only intemperate thing I have heard in the clips is "God damn America". What we normally call hate speech is denigrating to a group of people, and that remark, though intemperate and angry, is not hate speech. The rest of the clips range from simply true ("America was founded on slavery", "We bombed Hiroshima") to ignorant (the AIDS conspiracy theory) but none of it is hate speech.

I have to wonder if the whole emotional reaction to Wright's sound clips is an ironic reminder of the truth of what Obama said in his speech: we still have race problems. It isn't Wright's words, but the sound of his voice -- an angry black man -- that seems to make people run inside and bolt their doors and make journalists like Lisa Miller, and you, lose perspective. Compared to the real hate speech of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (imagine Jeremiah Wright running for President as Robertson did) what Wright actually said is almost nothing.

Amazing.

Such intolerance displayed here at Gather. I tend to think of this place as being mostly composed of out-of-work white people with too much time on their hands, but I have a great deal of respect for many of the opinions and ideas that get published on Gather.

This outrage about Reverend Wright's comments is being redirected at a member of his congregation... a member who just happens to be a black man running for president. It is insane for any of you to suggest that Obama is the lesser for having had contact and friendship with this preacher.

Think whatever you please about Rev. Wright or Falwell, or any other performer / minister with a cause and learn from them. Make your own decisions. Don't let Fox or NPR make it for you.

Obama responded to the uproar over Wright's language by opening the door for a serious discussion about race relations in this country. One can only hope that the rest of the country uses this moment as an opportunity to begin that dialogue. Or, you can take the easy road and continue to bitch at each other about how this proves that and that proves this.

The Chive's last sentence sums it up... We have miles to go....

This outrage about Reverend Wright's comments is being redirected at a member of his congregation... a member who just happens to be a black man running for president. It is insane for any of you to suggest that Obama is the lesser for having had contact and friendship with this preacher.

I could not have said it better, Doug. I am amazed at the fact that this has been made into such a big deal. Let's move on - the ignorant will always stay ignorant because just when someone comes along that may finally help them out, they find every excuse in the world to turn against him. It's really an issue of race, believe me. How pathetic and sad. WE ALL COME FROM AFRICA - so what's the difference. Salud.

I voted for Obama, and will again if given the chance. I am impressed the way he handled the aftermath. Affairs such as this certainly help the undecided come closer to making a decision. I hope that any edge will be in Obama's favor. I was equally impressed with Clinton's response to the sermon and Obama's speech.

I would love to vote for BOTH Obama and Clinton in November, Clinton as Vice President.

But one point that I have not seen mentioned is that people tend to gravitate away from churches (ministers) that they do not agree with and congregate with churches that fulfill their spiritual and personal needs.

I would have to live in Obama's neighborhood and hear more of Wrights sermon's to determine what the context of his words were. Let God judge him, I say, since he's NOT running for President.

Thanks for raising this issue...

I understand your point, Rory, about the electability of Obama against McCain. But I don't agree. Most polls show Obama to be stronger in his ability to withstand a Republican onslought. And now he has just won the only Hispanic governor's super-delegate vote. Interesting things are happening. Just hope the Secret Service do a better job with him than the two Kennedy brothers.

The issue of Obama's pastor is moot in my opinion. I have rarely met any "pastor" who has not expressed rather strong words against injustice. My dearest friend in the world is a Danish parish priest and theologian, and she and I are able to discuss the empirical world of science, politics and intuitive faith in one sentence.

In 2005, the bishops of Denmark wrote their second ever letter condemning a political policy. In 1939, they criticized the Danish government for being politically in-bed with Nazi Germany. In 2005 they criticized the Danish government for its current racist policies against our Muslim refugees.

I agree with The Chive that we have a long way to go in this country regarding racism. We are, as we speak, raising yet another generation of frothing racists without very many of us even being aware of it. This hit really close to home for me over the past day or so.

My great niece attends a High School where there has been quite a bit of trouble the past week or two all racist in nature. The trouble apparently began when a black girl bumped into a white boy. Racist slurs started flying, apparently on both sides. From there it escalated to a few fights. And then to the finding of a small noose hanging from the rafters of the school and some extremely racist slurs written on a piece of school equipment. Last Friday fully 60% of the student body did not go to school as the result of rumors of an impending shooting at the school. Nothing happened, but armed police were on the grounds that day.

Today my daughter informs me that my great niece is being threatened with violence. The first reason was that she refused to take part in a "white power" rally at school, and told the person who asked her what she thought of it. The second reason she's being singled out is that apparently don't like the idea that her stepfather is half Chinese. The threats were in writing on her My Space pages. The kids involved were even so stupid as to leave their real names.

My niece has gone to the school and to the parents. Now she is going to the police and the newspaper is getting involved since the threats involve threats of some pretty graphic physical violence.

People such as the Rev. Wright, who stand in a pulpit and screams "god damn America" and makes the stupid statement that AIDS was intentionally manufactured to harm the black community only fuels these negative and racist divides. And yes, before you ask, he is no worse than Falwell or Dobson (both of whom I regard as hatemongers).

Bruce K.: I had read your comment earlier but somehow missed at the beginning of it that it was directed at me. Sorry about that.

"I don't really blame him. I have known a few black people and try as they may it is very common for angry comments or outbursts or paranoid ideas to be expressed from them." Now that seems to me a very racists comment, which surprised me as I have not perceived you to be a racist in the past, though we disagree on some very fundamental things. In my own experience I don't find blacks to be anymore prone to and specific behaviour than whites or Asians or whomever else. To say that blacks are given to angry outbursts and paranoia is little different from saying they have rhythm or are lazy. To be sure some blacks have rhythm and some are lazy and some are paranoid and some are given to angry outbursts. But then, so are some whites for all of the above.

The Chive: I gotta say I love your exposure of the *chuckle*head's use of "obammie" as a pretty transparent slur based on the old Al Jolson bit. I was thinking the same thing, had even considered calling him on it though I prefer not to acknowledge his steady stream of faux condescension masking the underlying hatred. Thanks for taking that dilemma off my hands!

Bent: I do so hope that you are right about Obama's electability. The well-known phenomenon of black politicians polling higher in survey's than they do on election day may be a factor you are overlooking, but perhaps it is not this time. I'd like to believe that is true, but I fear the consequences if it is not.

It isn't a slur, sir *chuckle* bam bam -- flinstones abuse perhaps ??? bam bam, I like names, playingi with names, is that okay with you jive, er, uh, clive, oops, uh, jumpin' chive boy *double chuckle*

how can I possibly be slurring the man, and standing with him side by side ??

I've said nothing here, or elsewhere, that would give anyone any doubt---

I am in the obammie camp, I am down with the brother. This is his moment, and I hope he is able to close the sale.

I was surprised that none of the people on the show had actually seen the full context of the quotes, rather than just Fox's highly selective outtakes. I don't know about the other cuts, but the long one on Hiroshima, etc, was a sidenote to the sermon -- and specifically noted as such during the sermon -- and was a quote from a white diplomat (Edward Peck). Rev. Wright's full sermon was a lesson of peace and reconciliation and a lesson to pull away from hatred at a time when many people were preaching revenge. How sad that we all jump into Fox's trap of soundbites without taking the time to hear the whole thing. And, speaking as a Southern, White, and Baptist - there are lots of preachers out there that get wound up in the middle of the sermon. I would not have considered him "ranting", but rather giving a perfectly normal sermon.

Angry clergymen? Shocking. After all, neither Pat Robertson (who, if I recall, recommended murdering the elected leader of a country with which the US is not at war; rumors of a similar statement from Iraq were answered with cruise missiles) nor any of the other US "fundamentalist" clergymen have had their supporters called to task for equally vicious things they've said.

NO one is special anymore in America because of their race. NO one should be. It seems the fact that we now OVERLOOK color might be just as offensive as acknowledging it.

Darn if you and darn if you don't when it comes to speaking your mind about racial issues in this country. I think racism is in the spotlight because this election has brought it to the forefront. Yes, it is alive and well, and everyone can be racist. If a person voted for Obama, it is because he is black. If a person voted for McCain, it is because he or she did not want to vote for Obama because he is black,etc...blah, blah....this a lose-lose situation.