"The End" It's been written, you've come to the conculsion of your story. Joy, Elation! Congratulations you've finished a full length novel. Many dream, many aspire, and you've completed the goal; to write the end.
When I was writing my first ms I had my best friend (the one person in the world who would tell me if it was crap) beta reading as I went. In as much I had done clean up editing along the way. Little did I know how far from the finish line I was; probably a good thing in retrospect.
I bought books on how to query and be published and quickly discovered I was a guppy swimming with sharks. One needs an agent to find a publisher. Agents like to take on authors who have an interested publisher. Huh? I need an agent to get a publisher, and to get an agent I need a publisher?
Confused, I set about sending queries and writing my next book.
What I didn't know?
I had a first draft, not a finished piece. Reject letters came in and I kept writing.
Fast forward FC1. I got out my ms and started to read in hopes of polishing it into a winning submission. Gasp! I wrote that? It's littered with infomation dumps, saidisms, head hopping.. good gracious no wonder all I got were reject letters.
Time for the first real rewrite/edit. Good news? I still love my characters and the stories I've written. Bad news? As I learn and grow as a writer I find myself back in the orginal mss looking to clean them up.
Is this the rewrite which will land me an agent? I don't know, but I hope so.
The journey from 'The End' to Published is a long road.
How goes your journey?
Have you felt like throwing in the towel?
Most importantly where do you think your strengths are now compared to then?
What is your weakness?
When will you be ready to query again? (sort of makes me sick to my tummy to even contemplate.)
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Comments: 316
Interesting questions all, Wendy. Having just been through the process, well, it's been a long and at times grueling road. I am sort of stunned at how much work I did on the book since FC1. I'm stunned that the agent who took me on saw the potential in what I had and helped me shape it into what it is now.
So I'm done with querying for the time being - hallelujah!!! I am hoping that I have a long and lucrative relationship with this agent and that I never have to query again.
I'm still pretty wiped out. I don't even feel like writing blog posts. Or long comments. I imagine I'll start wanting to write something in a couple of weeks, but I'm not at all ready to take on another serious novel.
Strengths and weaknesses? Man, I don't know. One thing is, I'm pretty obsessive once I get going. I don't work fast but I work hard and I work long. One of the reasons that this agent and I have been a good match so far is that he kept wanting me to make things better and I kept wanting to make things better, and interestingly enough, we both decided it was done at the same time. I'd finished drafts before, just utterly dragged myself to the end till I felt like I couldn't possibly do another thing on that book, but this time I really felt done, in a calm, content way.
It's a nice feeling.
Onward.
Good Night Neverland.. I look forward to your answers.
Now to catch up on Matt's thread:
Pat, evil harem in the baement? Now that's scary!
Jamie, did I miss something? What contest. Sorry to be so behind but mermaid day wiped me out. I may never recover. LOL.
Matt, thanks, you just answered my question. Readers Digest Contest? Can you tell me where to go so I can vote for Jamie and you if you entered?
Si, Vivian and Jamie, I had a similar experience with a racoon in the utility room and another with a large possum. Scary creatures I tell you, and stubborn as hell.
Jamie, Id like to read your story too. Critiquing is not my strong point though.
Beth, glad you're feeling better.
Julie, hi sweetie.
Towel? I don't feel like I've gotten sweaty enough to even merit that yet. Besides, the obvious laziness of not wanting to hammer out the kinks (crappy grammar, etc.) I don't know the next step. Querying sounds like exploring another planet to me right now.
I was talking to Jill over on Matt's thread. We were a little lost, I think.
Now, for Wendy's questions...
Since I have so many WIPs, I'm at different places with all of them. Would you like a list? Okay, here goes.
The Wolf Huntress - done with edits (as far as I know), am querying it, full mss is sitting on some agent's desk at the moment and it's been there for 6 weeks already, if they pass on it, I'll query some more
Death Domain - doing major edits on this one right now, after I'm done it will be going out on query to agents
SubZero - I queried this and got some personal rejection letters, and I've decided to turn it into a young adult series. So I'll be reworking the first half of the novel, probably start the second one and query it as a series. Gotta take all the romance out of it. I don't think it will be as much work as I fear.
Sylum's Saga - I still can't decide if I want to break the first book into two parts or not. I started doing that, but I don't like it as well. Maybe I'll wait until I have a sale and then try to send it in all its 165,000 word glory. The series is well underway, too.
High Sierra This is one that I wrote for Harlequin and they requested a full, then passed. Maybe I'll dig it out and rework it. Maybe I'll keep it hidden in "the vault".
Without A Doubt Another I wrote with Harlequin in mind. Yeah, it was my first and it is the worst, but it might be salvagable. It might keep High Sierra company.
The rest are WIPs that are not finished yet. Some are close, but some are just begun. I think the next WIP I want to finish is the one I started during NaNoWriMo. The characters have been whispering to me lately, but the need to yell if they want me to write.
I think that's enough boredom to spread this morning. Have a great day, all!
Must ponder before I answer Wendy's questions.
Jill, I like the tiime change too. It makes me feel like spring is here and I love the daylight.
June, I've been writing novels for 15 years. Doesn't look so impressive when you realize that. :-)
And of course reading Jamie's contest entry. Can't wait!
I hate daylight savings time. It will take me a week to get my internal clock reset.
As for the questions, Wendy, I'm still trying to find out what 'the end' looks like. Then there are the edits and revisions. Querying? OK, so I promised a couple of folks that I would at least query it. Then I can stick it in the vault and move on to the next one I have in mind. Because, yes, scarily enough, I already have another in mind. Sure never saw that coming. Especially since I've only really been doing the nmovel thing since last November. However, I doubt I'll ever be as prolific as Jamie!
I can't really do short stories, and wouldn't have a clue where to send them if I did. I don't usually read that form, so I have no idea what the market looks like in that area.
OK, off to round up some coffee and to read!
And thanks for looking at the short story. I do so appreciate it.
Now I know that the end is the end to one part only. There is creation, re-write, edit, query, re-write, edit, edit, edit... I will never throw in the towel on this.
As others of you have done, I'm trying some other types of writing including short stories and poetry. I truly enjoy the novel-length works, but this short stuff is good discipline for me.
Jamie, read your short story, and it's definately another one of your strengths. You do well at whatever you turn your hand to in the writing arena!
And Beth, look at you, featured on the front pae of Gather! Way to go! Wonderful, thought-provoking article! But it does make me feel a bit guilty. I've purchased or been given a number of books in the last 6 months on how to write, the art of writing, how not to write, etc. Other than "Writing a Romance Novel for Dummies" (yes, that's a real book), I have read none of them. Hard-headed, leap-before-you-look creature that I am, I expect it will take a couple of brutal rejections before I actually study how to write. For now, I'm just doing it my way (the way I do everything else!).
Pat, there's absolutely nothing wrong with writing first and studying later. A lot of what you do comes naturally, techniques and good habits you've picked up from years of reading. When it's time to fine-tune, then you'll want to use some of those tools that might take a little practice to wield with precision. But we've all picked up so much just from casual conversations and hanging around one another. That's an education in itself.
Should be interesting.
Never considered throwing in the towel.
And Beth, yes, hanging out with the wombats is probably the very best education I could ask for. I've learned soooo much! I'm so glad people are so willing to share their knowledge and experiences here, and are showing me the path to follow! Thank you all for blazing that trail for me.
Jamie my first drafts were horrendous as well. Please listen to your nano characters. Perhaps your ears are plugged from all the illness and they are yelling?
Pat, you have a flair for wordiness. If this was the worst of my sins when I started writing I'd have been doing cartwheels. Your story will clean up very well, of this I have no doubt.
Shout out to Paul! Afternoon almost published wombat!
Ken; Winners don't quit. Dumb? I don't think so.
Having my friends read my work didn't help me much with the technical end of writing. It did do wonders to encourage me to continue writing. When I went through a slump and just couldn't get it going, several of them continued to badger me. "Are you writing? Any new stories? I'd love to see something."
Encouragement can never be under rated.
Brunch is on. The buffet is filled with all sorts of tasty treats. Monte Cristo anyone? There are Mimosas at the end of the buffet. Do take care, I don't want any champagne hang overs tomorrow. The expresso bar is just over there.
Don't lament the rose has thorns. Rejoice the thorns have roses.
I'm enjoying the sunny afternoon. The 7-day forecast has raindrops on every day; I'm going out to stare at the sun, so I'll remember what it looks like.
But I bought a lot of fruit. Anyone else craving fruit. I think its because it will soon be spring.
Now I'm off to the gym. I've been slacking on my diet and exercise program. Getting lazy again. Need a swift kick in the pants.
See you all, later.
Yum.
Jamie, fantastic story, but no kick in the pants for you from me.
Beth, way to go!! When I opened Gather and saw you icon, I said "Wow, that's MY Beth. Famous." Now imagine when I see you book at the store.
Speaking of which, Wendy's question. I have often thought of throwing in the towel, most recently yesterday. As my publicist said to me a while back, being a writer doesnt mean you can quit your day job. I answered her - Oh. now you tell me.
I think I can only say what I tell graduate students about being a scientist. Which goes back several threads to something I quoted from the film NY Stories. The rewards are few, fame and glory are distant illusions. We do it because we love it, and we cant imagine not doing it. And every now and then, someone tells us "fantastic job. I loved it." And that makes it worth the work, the pain and the effort. (does anyone else hear those violins in the background?)
Moving on to Wendy's questions: I've made the decision not to query anything any more. Evrything I publish will be through the POD route. That means I have to decide when it's ready; I can't rely on an agent or editor to make that decision. Of course, I don't have to query endlessly to get anyone's blessing either, which is the real benefit of the POD approach. With my first book, I pulled the trigger and published too soon. I got quite a bit of feedback -- mostly positive, but some negative, which is of course the most heplful. When I re-read it several months AFTER I'd bought a distribution package, I nearly puked at how crappy it was. But then I set out to fix it. I made extensive re-writes, and I feel pretty good about it now. The version available now is the Fourth Edition. The time from "The End" until it was really ready and POD published as the Fourth Edition was a little more than one year.
Those who have been following my articles know that I'm soliciting a bunch of people to participate on the "Board of Directors" of a "Virtual Press," which will hopefully create a new way of marketing that completely bypasses agents and traditional publishers, relying instead on the Virtual Press members to decide when an ms is ready and to work together to market the books they choose to feature.
(I won't post any links this time, but I urge you to click on my golf ball and read the articles. Don't wait too long to weigh in on the VP idea or you'll be left behind as the new venture becomes a reality.)
Sorry to hear about Donny.
Spent today moving the basement around. Kids have a place to bring friends that isn't full of scary spiders and has the big screen tv. And I now have an exercise room. Here's hoping it helps the back - oh, and teens are good for moving heavy stuff around. Real family bonding time. ;)
Fruit? Mostly yummy. But that other stuff is good too.
(((((hugs)))) for Julie. I'm sure you need them, honey.
I bought some Washington Rose apples. They're a dark pink color (well, rose) and I've already devoured one. Delicious! I also bought grapefruit, grapes, pears and bananas. Cherries sound really good. I didn't see any at the store. I also bought fresh spinach, because I love fresh spinach, but the cooked stuff is just nasty. Now if I could only find some decent asparagus.
The trip to the gym was great. No one there. Guess they were all at walmart. I knew I had a deltoid muscle, but until I did that weight lifting I wasn't aware of it. I sure am aware of it now. Sweated my ass off in the sauna. And now I'm cooking dinner. Turkey, rice, mashed potatoes and corn. Anyone want to come over for dinner?
On another possibly brighter note, I have recieved an email from Clara Sanchez, my Uncle Charley's companion. Apparently he got so excited about having an audience that he is now writing his memoirs. She attached the first chapter, asking me to post it. She also said that she knows all about Gather, sort of hinting that she might tell him about it.
I plan to visit them next week when I am in NY, and see if I can straighten everything out. MEanwhile, I am going to try to edit what he sent me, and see if it can be made publishable.
Well, since Pat was cranky because of the snow, and Jamie was off having a miserable time at Walmart, the unused muse came here for the day. Added almost 2,000 words to my WIP. Yay. Thanks ladies.
Now for Wendy's question. I don't think I've approached novel writing in the same way twice. I wrote the initial draft of my first novel fast. Think I was nervous I'd forget the plot if I didn't get it down on paper fast. Then, I edited, rewrote, queried. I had some partial read requests, but nothing ever came of them. I set it aside and started my second novel. The plot idea came from a very short scene in my first novel. I was half way through the first draft of that, decided I hated it and set it aside for a long time. One day, I opened it, read it and thought, "Hey, this ain't bad. Has potential." I wrote to the end, but knew at 180K words it was way too long. I then spent lots of time rewriting/editing to cut, cut, cut the word count. When I got it down to 158K, I started querying it saying it was 150K, thinking I'd worry about that later. LOL. I got some great encouragement from agents on that one, but still knew it was too long for an unknown novelist to get published. I set it aside, and started a third novel. Then FC1 came along, and after reading what other people were writing, I thought my first novel was pretty good in comparison. Rewrote it. Started querying it again. Had a full read request. Rejected. Then I discovered a new girl at work has her MFA and used to teach graduate-level creative writing. She read my second novel, and when I handed it to her, I joked, "Cut 20,000 words while you read." Well, she took me seriously, read it, loved it and with red pen in hand, suggested parts I might cut. I set aside novel 3 to work on novel 2 again, and it's now at 143K words. Then came nanowrite. Started novel 4. Have a sloppily written first draft. I then opened the long-forgotten novel 3 one day in January, read it, and thought "This ain't so bad. Has potential." Now working on it again, while the nanowrite novel sits and waits. Wendy, aren't you sorry you asked? LOL.
Jules sending prayers Donny's way.
Sy it's good to hear your uncle is excited about his writing prospects.
Judy my basement is now a mini apartment for eldest and grandbaby..her old room now serves as the Entertainment room. I hope your back gives you a break, chronic pain sucks.
Jamie your little dog sounds like a cutie, and far too smart for her own good. grinning
Jill, and Jamie, my head would explode if I tried to keep track of that many stories! I'll be happy to finish just one, thank you very much. And the other one that's starting to make noise will have to wait. It will, I know. Very patient heroine in that one, and she wants it told right, so she's willing to wait. Yeah, she's making that much noise already.
Simon, can't wait to read more about Uncle Charlie. And inspiring him to write his memoirs is a very, very good thing. Wish I had the memoirs of a couple of my relatives. My great granfather, who died at 101, went west in a covered wagon as a runaway teen, and watched Neil Armstrong land on the moon from his wheelchair. He was glued to the TV for every moment. He never used anything but a horse and plow on his fields, and did it until he was 97. At the same time, he loved to ride in cars (he never drove) and go really fast. So treasure his memoirs, and don't edit too much. You know we love our rogues and rakehells here!
Jamie, your dog sounds like a complete cutie! And smart! Like her guardian!
Today was a travel day. I've ventured down to Philadephia for a standards meeting. Philly is now on my list of civilized cities. You can fly into the airport and then catch a train that brings you directly downtown. I had to wait a few minutes at the train station at the the airport, but that gave me a chance to pull out my WIP, so I did some editing and started adding to it.
Wendy, like many of us here, I'd written a novel and after a few queries (and rejections), decided to enter it into FC1. Even in original form, it had its moments, but I've since learned a lot about how to make it better. I did a major edit and entered a portion of it in FCR. There I got lots of encouragement and some very specific feedback about what worked and what needed improvement. After another full edit pass and selective re-writing, I've started to send out queries again. In the meantime, I've moved on to continue work on my 2nd ms, which is very different than the first.
I've also found the various wombat contests have been very helpful in trying out different techniques, POVs and so on. I'll also agree with the others here that hanging out with the wombats has been a big help in working on both the craft and the marketing tools of a writer. Not to mention all of the encouragement, which as writers we ALL need.
I started doing some recording of a different song yesterday, but ran out of time. I'll try to pull it together next weekend in case I need it for round 2.
Thanks again for all of the wombat support.
Julie, I haven't met Donny, but the story is a hard one and my prayers go out to him.
Pat, very impressive snow total. We had monsoon like rains through last evening, but much to my amazement, the sky totally cleared while we were eating. The rains were replaced by winds with gusts up to 50 mph. This has been quite a winter in the Northeast.
Most of my trips to Philadephia were also in the Seventies. A former employer, Burroughs, did lots of training courses down here and I also visited an aunt in town. This is my first return visit in about ten years.
Then again, I would never attempt the traffic in Boston either. The exit from Logan airport is not for the faint of heart. Thank goodness my business associate was driving. I literally climbed over the seat into the back seat, because the view from the front seat was too scary. Imagine me doing that in an A-line skirt and high heels, and you'll get some idea of just how freaked out I was! No, not good in traffic at all. The idea of Simon driving a cab in New York? Beyond my comprehension. Then again, hubs used to live in Boston, and laughs at what we consider "traffic" here.
Glad to make you feel normal, Wendy. LOL. The one thing I did do differently before I started my third novel is thought about the market a bit beforehand. I just dove in with the other two without thinking of how, or if, they'd fit somewhere. So, though my writing (and personal taste) leans toward contemporary mainstream fiction, my third novel is a romance. I think it might be an easier market to break into, or guess I should say because romances make up the bulk of book sales (ask Judi) there are more romance publishers and the smaller ones are more willing to look at unagented manuscripts than other genres. Will writing with the market in mind work? Don't know, but my idea is try to get a romance written and sold so I can requery my second lengthy novel (which I still believe in) with a publishing credit. A girl can dream, right?
Pat, your super tastebuds aren't to blame for the limes. Limes ARE sour. :-)
Is it really 9:20 already? How is that even possible? *grumble, grumble Why does one hour make such a big difference? I mean it's just a measily hour, but I've felt disoriented about time all day. *grumble, grumble
I wrote my third ms with market in mind, but I don't know if it will do any good either. We'll see. Fantasy seems to be picking up which is good for the first ms.
I'm checking out early this pm. Make yourselves to home. Daughter made chocolate covered mini pretzels and there are refreshments on the island in the kitchen.
Well written romance never grows cold IMHO.
Re-Branding? I know WAY too much about this. We're doing a 2nd major re-branding in 2 years. Every bit of collateral has had to change and undergo review from Legal. When my stuff starts to sail througn Legal, I just know that I'm getting too much practice in getting into their mindset.
Rebranding also can apply in writing. I see that Jill is veering over toward Romance from contemporary mainstream. It is annoying to have to adjust one's writing to make it more acceptable to the gatekeepers, but so it goes.
James, rebranding is going to be a ginormous pain. After 18 years with the same email address, I have to have a new one next month. And notify all my peeps about it. Ick. I hate this new trend toward made-up names for companies. Our old one was linked to a man's name, and his personal reputation and integrity. As mentioned, the new one not only gives no clue as to our business, but sounds like a pharmaceutical.
I find interesting the concept of "rebranding" applying to writing. Do we do the research and write for the market, or write what is in our hearts and heads, and damn the marketplace? Do we hope our oddball concepts become the next hot thing in the market? Truth be told, my next concept is in direct correllation to the success of "The Thirteenth Tale" by Diane Satterfield, although I didn't think of it that way at first. It's just a story murmuring to be told. Only later did I think about marketing it that way. Guess I need to hurry up and finish this one, so I can write that one. She, and her hero, are getting louder every day. And yes, there's already a follow on to that lurking in my brain. Hard to believe that a year ago, none of these creatures lived in my head.
BUNCH =
Burroughs
Univac
NCR
CDC
Honeywell
OK, hubs had to come up with NCR and CDC, but I knew the rest!
Jamie I love pretzels...Especially the ones they sale at the local fair, the greasier the better.
This next week will be a challenge for me. Hubs is leaving with no milk in the 'fridge. I know I sound like a spoiled princess (I admit it, I am!), but I haven't been to the grocery in ages. It will be an adventure to which I'm not looking forward. Me, in a grocery store. Bad things are bound to happen. I'm likely to come home with cans of frosting (but no cake mix) and a bag of peaches (because I adore the smell of peaches) and a jar of maraschino cherries (because one can simply not make a good Manhattan without maraschino cherries). Wait. Do maraschino cherries count as a fruit?
Here's my story:
I've completed one novel, which I finished just days before FC1. I received a lot of helpful feedback from the Gather community (in particular, people who are now Wombats) and used it to create a second draft. Using this draft, I queried a handful of agents and secured representation from an agent on my dream list. But then, the novel didn't sell. I was pretty bummed, but got over it a lot more quickly than I anticipated.
The good news is that this will push me to try even harder the next time around. I don't think about giving up exactly, but I do think about giving it a rest. Time is so precious, and when I consider the hours and hours it takes to write a novel, it's pretty daunting. But I know that I don't keep at it, I'll regret it someday, and that's what pushes me to get back on that horse. That scary, scary horse.
A time will come, when she will demand to be written. You will have no choice in the matter, and you will get to a computer and write it out, regardless of what else is happening. I think this has already happened to you, so get used to it. When the characters are ripe, your fingers are no longer your own.
Oh and Pat, two more things. One, dont ever get into a car that I am driving, and two, as his biggest fan, I should mention that I will be posting Charley's latest tale for Humor Monday in about 30 minutes.
Sherrie, it is sad to read about Donny. When one reads his journal entries, it's even harder. Love found, and lost, and now this. Real life is so much harder than fiction.
You can keep the pretzels, especially chocolate covered ones. The only salty/sweet combo I like is Reese's cups (and something else not mentioned in polite company!). As for pretzels, they are my only really good memory of Philly. I love the big hard/soft ones, with mustard. Oh yes, and cheesesteak sandwiches. Adore those. Hold the peppers.
I absolutely love the roads to writing and publication this group has traveled. Keep sharing, guys. Your words are encouragement and goad.
Judi & James--wish we could all meet you this week.
Dave, have a fantastic trip! I'm ready for a vacation! Too bad it's not time for one.
Sy, I'm certain I do you a disservice, but my suspicious nature is not 100% convinced Charley is a living, breathing gentleman.
Pat, send hubs off with our wishes for an awesome trip. And you have fun without him at home! Write lots and lots and visit with us all the time.
My effort at sharing, a la Ken--
"The trouble with this hasty, respectable judgment lies of course in the fact that every individual writer, even a stern-minded person like Melville, is different people at different times. In one mood, or in one crowd, the serious writer writes fairy tales; in another he writes ponderous novels; in still another, dirty limericks. A great writer is not great because he never writes dirty limericks but because, if he does write one, he tries to write a very good one."
John Gardner, On Writers and Writing