"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."
Robert Pirsig came up with the quote. Let's dissect it and understand why religion is such a negative experience for many people. Disclaimer - I am gay - religions generally don't want me or people like me - my thoughts may be based on that reality.
Religion has supplanted rational thought many times over. Our geologists know that the earth is billions of years old, but there are those of the religious persuasion who believe that the earth is only five thousand years old. They know better because they take advantage of scientific discovery every day of their lives. It is easier to convince people of a delusion than it is to convince them of fact. Why not fact? Because of the great mystery of life, facts seem incongruent with religion. Yet, I know religious scientists who have no problem accepting their work and believing in their particular religionl. So, what is it really about. How did the delusions (such as the earth is five thousand years old) come about?
There was a group of men (they are always men) who thought that the five thousand years old delusion was so important that they created a museum in Kentucky explaining this religious precept. Now, children from all over can have a good time and at the same time be indoctrinated into the "God" factor. The fact is that there is no proof of God. Does that mean that people shouldn't believe in God? Of course not. But, to deny the truth (that there is no proof of God) is delusional and is believed by many people. Ministers have been perpetuating this myth for many years. They even talk about having a relationship with this mythical God. In the end, it is a delusion. The fact is that the mystery of life isn't explainable. If these people didn't have their delusions they wouldn't be comfortable with the knowledge that some things are just plain unknowable. It takes rational thinking to get to the point I'm talking about. One cannot live with delusional thinking and recognize that God is mostly a construct made up in the mind. In the end, I'm glad that I'm rejected by most religions. I am free to live with the mystery of life on my own terms. I don't have to kowtow to any dogma. I wonder about those people who live with delusion. Strip it away and they have nothing. I will take comfort in the science of life and accept that not all things can be explained.
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Comments: 45
And it works well. That MIGHT not be religion though, but an abuse of religion.
I think so many people want religion because "real life" is so blah - and they don't want to just die and be nothing. Something like that. We are very self delusional and self indulgent about ALL SORTS of things - ha ha.
ha ha ... Constantine. He was clever and tricky - huh? And smart. He knew what worked to get his way.
I've known a lot of very crazy acting Pagans. Just flaked out !!!
Maybe.
I'm going to disagree with you on this one (but I'm doing it most respectfully). Religion, like any other large groups, does have the potential to turn people insane. Think of Jonestown as just one example. I think it's important that you maintain your individuality in any circumstances, including religion. The most important part of my religious beliefs is my relationship wth my creator. It has been a great source of hope and faith for me through the years.
Have a good night!
Another thought: "Evil people will do evil things, good people will do good things, but for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Consider this: the Crusades, the oppression of gays and lesbians, Jonestown, and the FLDS.
Amanda - I know better than to argue against religion. Why not just be glad that you are part of this wondrous world and leave it at that? That's just me, I suppose.
I suppose I should say that the people in religions don't like us. That would be more accurate. Since religions are made up of people - religion is a construct - it is religion that doesn't like us. I don't say these things because of that. I believe that we have to be honest about our lives. I only offered the disclaimer because there are so many people who don't understand that rejection of religion is well reasoned decision.
ha ha
(I still like Bach)
I suspect that religion was invented by mankind very early on its development (ie tens of thousands of years ago), in an attempt to try to make some sense of a world that seemed so inexplicable and unpredictable. It's hard for us to imagine what it must have been like for primitive humans who understood so little of how the world worked (eg. what caused disease or floods or droughts), and yet were suffering and dying very young as a result of things they did not understand. At that stage of human development, religion can be seen as the earliest form of philosophy. Unfortunately, religion survived past its early usefulness and grew into a destructive force that is in every fundamental way opposed to the requirements of human life.
I can certainly understand primitive man's need for religion. However, like you, I am amazed that religion (particularly in its fundamentalist, literalist form) still has so many adherents at a time when (as you correctly point out) the advantages (and the power) of rational thought and science should be obvious for everyone to see.
While I do not think that religion (at least in its earliest form) was invented to control people, I do agree that the doctrines of later organized religions were tailor-made for that very purpose. There are certain common themes amongst organized religions. You discuss the most prominent of these themes in your article: ie religion's elevation of faith over reason. In fact, religion often goes even further and condemns the human mind (and reason) as impotent or even evil. [This is a prominent theme in the Christianity of St. Paul, St. Augustine, and Martin Luther.]
Another common theme throughout all organized religions is an emphasis on suffering and self-sacrifice. For example, Christianity opposed anaesthesia, because this supposedly subverted God's will that humans suffer. Organized religion consistently condemns those things that bring people happiness and joy such as music, dancing, and of course sex. [Joe: I believe that this is at the root of organized religion's condemnation of gay people. Think about how Catholicism condemns non-procreative sex (ie sex for enjoyment, and to express romantic love) even among married heterosexuals!]
These doctrines are very helpful in giving organized religion power over people. Confident, independent-minded, happy people, are very hard to control and to rule over. So if organized religions want power over people (and they do), they must attack the mind and those things that bring happiness. They elevate faith and condemn reason, because reason can be used against their absurd doctrines. Once a person loses the confidence to think for him/herself and gives up those things that brings him/her happiness, he/she will be desperate to find someone to follow and obey (and that is where the priests, mullahs, etc. come in).
Any religion that seeks to restrict people through fear is corrupted ... most institutionalized religions are all about control ... no matter what they say ... they are for the most part Dualistic (+/-) involving conflict between intentionally generated polarizations ... divided to be conquered ... convinced to fight with each other and never look above (or below) where the controllers hide in the shadows conspiring to enslave us all for their own benefit.
Such is the earth condition, void of the unconditional love of the Spirit of God, due to the lies of the impostors and the gullibility of the sheeple that seek a savior rather than take self responsibility.
When one seeks ultimate truth, it will show itself to one and they will spiritually know it as God and that Love ... it will be INtuitive because it comes from and is found withIN ... it is our very Soul. Religion speaks about such things as if an authority, yet they mislead the people to keep them under their wing tithing ...
"Who can separate his faith from his action, or his belief from his occupations?
. . .Your daily life is your religion and your temple."
~~Kahlil Gibran
Some of you may have a religion of Atheism,
or Agnosticism,
or Commerce,
or sex,
or money,
or lying,
or stealing. . .
whatever is your religion, you cannot escape it; you live it;
it is you, it defines you, as you define it.
It is YOUR opium.
The quote does not support your all-inclusive concept of religion. The way I read it, Gibran was (correctly) pointing out that a person's religious beliefs influence all his actions throughout his daily life. I would agree, and go further to say that a person's beliefs (whether religious and non-religious) influence all his/her actions and how he/she lives his/her life. I do not see how you get from that to a concept of religion that includes every possible belief (and non-belief), action, or object in the world, as the second part of your post suggests.
You include in your concept of religion: the lack of belief in a deity or deities (atheism), the assertion that one is without knowledge of the existence or non-existence of a deity or deities (agnosticism), several examples of human activity or behavior (commerce, sex, lying, stealing), and a medium of exchange (money). This is unjustified and would render the concept meaningless.
A religion is a set of beliefs or dogma, at the center of which is a belief in a god or gods and/or a supernatural realm, which beliefs are to be accepted on faith. Faith is the acceptance of an idea in the absence of any evidence to support it or even when the evidence directly contradicts such idea. A set of beliefs which does not include a belief in god(s) or in a supernatural realm is not a religion. A belief, or set of beliefs, that is accepted because it is supported by proof, logic and reason is not a religion.
Atheism, for example, is just the disbelief, or lack of belief, in the existence of a deity or deities (hence the word a-theism). That a person is an atheist tells you very little about the person's actual beliefs or values other than that they do not include a belief in god(s). Moreover, since there is no proof, logic or reason that would support the possibility of the existence of god(s), the disbelief in such existence is not based on faith. Atheism is no more a religion that is the disbelief in alien abductions.
The other items on your list are not even beliefs, let alone a set of religious beliefs. Of course, one's beliefs and values (religious or secular) will significantly influence how one views commerce, sex, lying, stealing and money. However, the latter are the effects of the beliefs, not the beliefs themselves.
Religious belief is very different from putting something else high on your list of life priorities, as Lady Nalita seems to be saying. Nobody "worships" or "has faith in" or "blindly believes" except in a religious context. One can put money high on one's life priority list, but it does not equate to a religion. Religious belief and its associated faith is the product of a lazy intellect in my opinion. People are willing to "let go, let god" because they do not want to personally accept the responsibility for their and others' actions. "god" caused the hurricane, "god" is punishing that group of heathens for their different beliefs with mass genocide, "god" will bring justice to that politician in the afterlife, so why should be punish him by rule of law today? It is ignorance and laziness to the maximum degree. That is why you cannot hold a reasonable, logic-based debate with a religious person. Their 'faith' requires them to just 'believe' with no proof or evidence, and they wear this 'faith' like some sort of crown or badge of honor.
Ignorance and Laziness.
Your words are quite appropriate, J. C. To some people, a gay person is a person to ridicule or make fun of. To others, gay people are people to bash and hate. Either one is disrespectful. I take a live and let live approach.
I'm a former university Geography teacher. Geography, from its Latin and Greek roots means description of the earth. It's described in age among dozens of other ways. The anthropological record, as well as isotope dating, scientifically places the earth's age at about 4.5 billion years.
You are right that people take advantage of scientific discovery and they assume
scientific facts to be true (cooling turns water to ice; heating turns it to gas), but when
it suits them, they deny science and believe such fairy tales as Adam and Eve, because it's in the Bible - a book written thousands of years ago, on another continent, by really
unknown (to us) authors.
...and yet, were God to appear to you and ONLY you and you had no proof afterwards . . . you'd believe in the 'myth', right? Without proof.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Have you read God is not Great by Hitchens?
Yes, I've read "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. He makes some great points about the evils of religion in our society as well as other societies. I personally believe that good does not generally come out of religion. There are a few religious communities that are the real deal but most are about thought control.
I do not expect everyone to agree, just my take.
I am religious and I believe in God.
The movie Kingdom of Heaven has a good quote on religion, a few actually.
This is my favorite,
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murders. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here (points to Balian's head) and here (points to Balian's heart) and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...OR not."
I am a stay-at-home mom and have always been able to do so.......my husband is a union trucker and makes very excellent wages....in this bad economy we are, fortunately, doing very well.....house paid off 12 years early, vehicles all paid for in cash, just a few minute credit cards......I have chosen to stay at home because I wanted to raise my child with MY standards and with my faith in God........to respect ALL people of ALL faiths and of ALL sexual preferences........my family hates NO one.
Organized religion functions as crowd control. As soon as a religion ceases to fulfill that function, it becomes re non grata.
I am free to live with the mystery of life on my own terms. Nothing could be more liberating. I can't imagine why so many people are afraid to go there.
The fact is that there is no proof of God.
In the end, it is a delusion. The fact is that the mystery of life isn't explainable.
What proof are you looking for? There is "proof" of God if you truly seek to know Him. What do you say to those who have seen God? I guess you think all people who profess to know God are lying?
I testify to you that God is our loving Heavenly Father. He is real. He knows you personally. He knows your name. He knows your life. "In the end" it will not be a delusion. You will know as well as I know today that God exists as well as Jesus Christ His Son. Life is not a mystery to me. It is not a fact that life is unexplainable. I know where I came from, why I am here and where I am going. Seeing is not always believing. Sometimes a witness of the spirit is greater than seeing. Your eyes can decieve you but a true witness recieved by the Holy Ghost is undeniable. If you have ever felt this in your life -(the spirit testifying to you of the truth) than you would know for yourself of these things and wouldn't be posting this.
I Tell You the Truth: He does not hate You.
Ive always thought that the word god was used to explain that which couldnt be defined. And having a mind that is curious in nature, I do not believe that things can NEVER defined, just perhaps not at the moment. Perhaps when we humans get to that last thing that can't be defined, then god will surface for me. Until then I believe anything can be possible and everything can be defined eventually.
thank you for getting my mind going this morning as coffee was not working ~ hugs ~j