Recently, there have been several articles written about abortion: the taking of the life of the unborn child, the unborn fetus, the unborn embryo, the unseen baby that has not found a loving home.
Many has been the word said about a 'woman's right to choose' and 'what happens to her body is her business to decide.' If any of you who are reading this have seen my comments on the articles written, you know where I stand on the matter.
One thing I would like to propose here and anyone who wants to respond to what I have written can do so. However, if if is implied anywhere in the comments on this page that the people in favor of the preservation of life of the unborn child is less than intelligent, that comment will be deleted. I saw a comment on another page, and not the page belonging to the member who said it, but to a commenter only on that page that said the writer of the article was less than intelligent. So be forwarned.
Here is my question for those who support abortion or would have one: If sometime in the future, the God of the Universe, the Creator of all mankind, including women who think they own their bodies, was to bring forth the aborted babies, the aborted fetuses, the murdered embryos and give them voice to ask the mother who rid herself of the little life "Why? Why did you kill me?" what would those women say?
If God decided to bring a killer and his victim together in some future time and the victim could say, "Why did you kill me for my shoes? or Why did you kill me when I gave you all my money? or Why did you kill me, Dear, when you could have asked for a divorce?" what would those killers say in defense?
When a woman, or a young girl, gives up her baby for adoption, and later they meet, the child always wants to know, "Why did you give me up?" The mother usually will say something like, "I couldn't afford to keep you." or "I was so young, and my parents made me." or "I thought someone else could give you a better life."
Even these things are hard for some children to accept. For a mother to give up a child so the child will have a better chance is a noble thing. I couldn't do it, myself, but I understand when a girl thinks she must do so. They will never forget the baby and a lot of them regret having done so. But I can understand, and sometimes the adopted child will be able to come to understand it also.
Even so, the woman has a hard time facing the child they gave up and telling them 'why'. It isn't easy to do even under the best of reasons for having given up the child to be confronted with the question.
But, if you are one of those women, females, who feel it's your 'right' to have your baby killed, put out a hit on the little fetus, contract a killing of the embryo, were suddenly and without a means of escape, brought face to face with your dead child and they asked you 'Why?' what would you say?
And if in the future, the God of the Universe, the heavenly Father of those unborn children, brings you forth before Him and He asks you "Why?' what will you say? Ask yourself, 'will it be a good enough reason?' Will God then say to you, 'Well, alright then.' Be honest with yourself when you give thought to His reaction to whatever you say.
And to those who say they don't believe in God, that He doesn't exist, I say, believe what you claim, at your own risk.'
August 24, 08 : some of you may have remarked on the high number of comments I deleted. The majority were comments made by three people who commented time and again when I had made it clear to them that I would not allow their foul mouths and vulgar language to be posted on my pages. They were not just insulting me, but were insulting the unborn in obscene writing. And they wanted to disrupt the other honest hearted commenters. If those of you who had honest comments to make feel that I acted unfairly, I'm sorry you feel that way. But this article was never to be a debate
And on the day in February when iit was written, I said that I would not hesitate to delete any comments that implied that anyone who values life is less than intelligent, etc.,....... the comment would be deleted.
I will not allow those certain members who kept commenting or just leaving lots of dots to do so on my posts, today or in the future. So I have chosen to approve comments before they appear because deleting them is too time consuming when I am trying to give honest comments and replys to others.
I proposed a hypothetical situation and these members were choosing to ignore that and focus on trying to bring in any and all pet peeves they may have to muddy the waters. If you don't believe abortion is wrong and want to say so, to bring in all of your reasoning, then I suggest that you write your own article.
I appreciate any and all honest contibuters for their comments on the sanctity of life and those who have lost children have my condolences.
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Comments: 132 ( 27 removed by Shirley U Understand Me S. )
A fetus is a human being, not a piece of meat. People bear responsibilities that go along with rights. God is real and we are subject to His laws. There are consequences for breaking those laws.
Like you said, Shirley, sometimes the doctors are wrong. Thank God.
Yes, Frank, Thank God! I'm glad you're still here.
But reality is, your question is quite grounded in reality, because sometimes aborted babies aren't as aborted as their mothers would like them to be. Sometimes they survive. There have been real cases in which children have been raised by women who had tried to abort them. When the child finds out, they're going to want to know why. How is the mother going to explain THAT one?
And thanks, Shirley. I'm glad I'm here, too.
After thinking about this a little bit, I don't think if I was an aborted child I'd be too hurt about it either. Obviously I was unwanted so it would be better for me to not be born than to be born and abused or killed (especially since if I was abused or killed after about 5 or 6 I would conciously understand what is going on).
But I realize not everyone agrees with my point of view and that is ok, this is just my opinion. If you don't believe people should have abortions, good for you but please don't try to make a decisions like that for anyone but yourself. It's a personal choice and if you take that away, you take away one of the fundamentals America was built upon.
And this article was not about the 'rights' of choice men have given each other, but what the unborn FEEL when they are murdered and how GOD feels about those children of His who are murdered in the name of 'freedom of choice'
If I could take away the desire of even one woman to murder her baby, I would do so.
If I could change any laws in this country, that would be the law I would change.
I look to GOD to make justice happen for anyone murdered including all of the murdered babies in all the whole world. He cares about them too.
Obviously, this individual has problems, because they are substituting the US Constitution for a moral authority. It is serving as their conscience -- something it was not meant to do.
Yet, whenever a conversation is about the moral and ethical ramifications of abortion, the abortion advocates resort to political ideology, and imply that abortion is a constitutional right (which it is not, and never has been). In other words, to justify a "moral" position they are taking (which is based on either self-service or political expedience or both) they fall back onto statements like: "...the fundamentals America was built upon."
Oddly enough, however, such as in the case of Melissa, above, the rest of the arguments for abortion are quite disturbing, such as, to imply that it is better to abort a baby than to bring them up in a world "full of hate and intollerance," and justifying it by comparing it to the killing of older children. You notice, too, that the abortionists no longer claim that "it is just a clump of cells" etc, because science has so completely abolished that dogma. Therefore, they are openly justifying killing what they know well to be a human life -- just read Melissa's argument on this page, or so many of the arguments on other abortion-related pages, and you will find this phenomenon over and over again.
Then, when all else fails, they fall back on a quasi-patriotic plea, based on an erroneous Supreme Court decision that somehow "implied" a right to abortion to the Constitution -- a "right" that was *never* a right in the first place. Never.
I hope one day these advocates of abortion come to their senses, as some already have, INCLUDING Norma McOrvey, the "Jane Roe" of Roe v Wade fame, who is now pro-life.
Obviously, since my view is that a baby, a fetus, is valuable as human life, sacred to God and to me, I would not sanction the killing or abuse of a child that had been born either. But to kill a child because it 'might be abused' is just too awful to consider.
Does obama deservie from God what he advocates for babies.
Equally unfortunate, is the fact that this is an argument that can never be won by those who value the life of a human being in the womb of its mother.
It is like going into a prison and arguing with a murderer who feels justified in having taken the life of another person. You're not going to get a murderer to listen to reason. Partly because, admitting that you are right means admitting that they are guilty of murder. That is why infantcidists will never admit that abortion is wrong (let alone admit that it is actually killing a human being).
That is why they argue so fiercely and fight so hard against anyone who believes that abortion is murder. Denial and indifference are absolute necessities in order for them to remain guilt-free in their own eyes. They cannot and will not ever accept or even give ear to anything you say. Because, to them, even giving in an inch means that they must accept at least that much guilt and responsibility.
Therefore, an unborn fetus must remain a "thing" to them. A non-living.......non-human.....mass of unwanted tissue that must be removed from their bodies, in the same way they might wish the removal of an appendix or an absessed tooth. Because, to admit that a living human fetus is anything more than the equivalent of having their tonsils removed, means they must admit that they have been a party to cold-blooded, premeditated murder......And who wants to admit that, right??
My question to you is... How do you know this?? There is a CHOICE to be made there as well! Who is to say that sacrificing the life of the child is better? Why not sacrifice the life of the mother for the life of the child??? I don't know... How can you be completely pro-life and say something like this. :(
What if the woman is raped?
"After thinking about this a little bit, I don't think if I was an aborted child I'd be too hurt about it either. Obviously I was unwanted so it would be better for me to not be born than to be born and abused or killed (especially since if I was abused or killed after about 5 or 6 I would conciously understand what is going on).
But I realize not everyone agrees with my point of view and that is ok, this is just my opinion. If you don't believe people should have abortions, good for you but please don't try to make a decisions like that for anyone but yourself. It's a personal choice and if you take that away, you take away one of the fundamentals America was built upon."
That is a HORRIBLE thing to say! That is basically saying that Obama is less than or unequal to the life of an unborn baby! Who is to say that one life means more than another?
However, with that being said, I also know that it is NOT my place to tell others what to believe and how to live their lives. I can express my beliefs to others, but I can't force people to do things my way. It is each individual's responsibility to face God on judgment day and be held accountable for the way they've lived their life. So, it is NOT up to me to try and shove my beliefs on someone else when it is each person's own right and responsibility to choose how they will live their own life.
Do you think that women who DO get abortions feel no guilt or responsibility despite their decision??
Now I must address Jessica.
First I must say that I disagree with something you said. I don't care what circumstances caused the pregnancy. All abortions ...all of them..are wrong. And you can't change that fact. It is a fact that all abortions, no matter the circumstances, whether rape is involved, or the mother is ill, young, old, didn't ever want to be pregnant, I can feel sorry fot them, but to kill any baby is wrong.
Now as far as what I said about the man who wants to be king of the hill and has made it known on the hill that he is in favor of killing babies: I asked a question, first of all. And now allow me to make you really angry and put you up on your high horse.
to me Obama is less, much less worth, than any unborn baby. Any and all unborn babies are of greater worth than he is. One of the reasons: because he advocates death for them and they are totally innocent of any bad thoughts about him or any other human.
they are tiny humans whose lives mean just as much to The Creator of life as you or me or any other walking talking person, whether abortion advocates admit it or not.
Angry yet? If not, allow me to help you. Death is too good for abortionists. They deserve what torture they do to the unborn. And to feel it to the same degree.
You should be thankful I am not God. He will be more compassionate on Judgement Day than I would be. After all, He is a compassionate God. He is allowing all murderers a chance to repent before Judgement Day.
Covering medical bills. Providing for continued support for that child if the mother can't part with the baby after giving birth. How about payment for counseling for the unwanted child.
Everyone of you is quick to impose your religious beliefs on others.
My religion says put your money where your mouth is. Tell me what you are doing to provide the solutions to the side issues when you are telling me about what must be done according to your god and the book you claim he wrote.
I am not imposing my religion on you. You came to my page and attack 'my religious beliefs' by trying to impose yours on me.
So your religionn has as it's basis money and mouths. I've heard of your group.
Every time the murder of the innocents is brought up, the poor little ones your kind are failing to care for are given as a 'reason' to keep on murdering. This isn't a 'SIDE ISSUE'. Taking care of children already born is the business of the parents who had the children. If they can't take care of them, then where are their extended families? If they don't have extended families, the government has programs to help out.
Many of the abused children are in homes where money is the 'god' and 'religion' of the parents and it's not a question of having enough. It's a question of caring.
You've been murdering thousands of children everyday. Why, if this is so tied to the poor, and abused children, there isn't less abuse and neglect than before you had the 'legal' right to murder?
If my name was Gates or Trump or some other richer than the world name, and I gave every penny to help the poor and neglected, you would still try ot throw that stale stupidity around. And when you found out that I was giving billions, and lo and behold, there were no more neglected and abused children due to a lack of money and or education, you would try something else from your bag.
you would ask me, well what about rape? and my answer is the same.
And you would say, what if it was your daughter? and I say that happened and the child is doing GREAT and having lots of love.
And you would keep on and on, 'mother's body', 'not alive', 'not human', until those of us who have a different god other than the money and mouth you worship are ready to throw up!
You are no different than the ancient people of Canaan. They worshipped the gods of fertility and had their children and then either burned them in the fire, or walled them up alive in their houses....inside the walls...to die.
You want the fun and excitement of sex, but don't want to face the consequences that sometimes come in the next month.
There is no reason on this earth for any woman, anywhere, at any time to murder her unborn. And if any of those women were on the way to the clinics to hire the hit man, otherwise in different situations called a 'doctor', and someone abducted her, you would want the news crews to be sure to say she was pregnant to garner more attention.
And if the abductor did something to her that killed the baby and she lived in a state that allowed for it, you would be in favor of his or her trial for murder of her baby.
And if they just wanted her baby and performed an operation that enabled them to take it, but left her alive and well, you would want them charged with kidnapping, etc.
You have so much gall. Your kind stand on the street with your signs and protest that others want little children to keep living and they show signs of unborn children in order to pursuade those in power, or those pregnant ones on the fence of ignorance, as being 'insensitive' and 'uncaring'.
The place your money comes from is not my mouth. It's from the abortion clinics and the clinics that SAY loudly that they are for family planning, BUT really they make their money, not from 'planning' to prevent a child until they are ready, but on how to pay for the murder.
Your kind make me sick. Your ways of intimidation don't intimidate me. And they certainly don't intimidate the God who created life and whose continued existance doesn't depend on a building in a place called 'Fort Knox'.
You go and put your money where your mouth is. Because your comment doesn't answer the question my article asked. Can't you read or are the dollar signs you live by in the way of seeing?
Or what about retarded children? What if a healthy baby that is carried to term has a medical emergency, perhaps while in infancy or as a small child, and it becomes too difficult to handle as a teenager that is wearing diapers and not able to feed itself? The mother may never have planned to have to care for an adult-sized infant that would never grow up. She might not be physically able to carry her child around, or properly care for it, and may not have the funds to send it to a group home. So who are we to judge her if she terminates a retardedness?
Or what about if it's a kid that's hard to control? Always talking back, getting into trouble at school, sneaking out at night, perhaps even committing petty crimes! That's not only a burden on the parents, it's also a burden on society! If we're not willing to take that child into our homes and discipline it, who are we to judge how the mother chooses to handle the situation? Maybe we should even thank her for terminating a criminality.
What about a poor man whose wife divorces him, then demands child support payments? What about if she also sues for alimony? He never asked his wife to leave him (and he would have continued to support her financially if she'd stayed married), never wanted the kids in the first place (she told him she was on the pill, when in fact she was not), and now he has to pay for them! And he can't afford to support two households. Who are we to judge him if he terminates an unwanted family? After all, are we able, or even willing, to pay his child support and alimony for him? It would be wrong to judge him for terminating them, when we're not willing to lift a finger in his aid.
Since we're not able to personally handle any of these situations for those who are burdened with them, then maybe we should all just keep our noses out of their business. Life for everyone would be a lot better if we could just kill anyone who might put a crimp in our style... Right Sharon?
The problem is that many people who consider themselves "modern" (which means "unchained" to the constrictions advised by God in religion) have allowed their own natural and atavistic nature to take precedence priority wise over their "human" nature. So they "revise" religion in a hypocritical attempt to retain the allusion of being pious by replacing the "God Factor" with their own superior judgment. Some of them even have "pretend churches" that have "ministers" and meet on Sundays while excluding "God" from the equation if their "parishioners" so choose. Others do much the same thing but less openly by retaining the illusion of being dependent upon the Will of God but interpreting that "Will" in ways that make it suit their own "will."
God has told us "Thou shalt not kill." I have not seen any scriptural evidence of any of the major religions that has altered this injunction from God, such as, "unless letting that child live will cause discomfort, loss of income, etc." But then, Thomas has above said it much better than I.
You are correct in saying that they have replaced the will of God with their own and His moral standards with no morals at all unless they are convenient to the moment they find themselves.
God is listening and taking names.
Give me a break!
I'm just saying.
To all of the anti-abortion advocates... I hope you are equally as active in the anti-war effort. I hope you never encouraged a friend or relative to sign up for the military. Government sanctioned murder is all it is.
Smoke-screen arguments are always flawed. The question of whether or not war is wrong, whether or not war is murder in the same way abortion is murder, doesn't in any way mean that abortion is ok. At best it just means that war and abortion are both wrong. So, eh... someone could say to you, Jessica, that if you're against war, but not equally against abortion, then you are (excuse me for saying) a hypocrite. After all, you just equated the two.
BTW, a little aside on your question, "Thou shall not kill is though shall not kill, right?" A correct translation of "Thou shalt not kill" would really be "Thou shalt not commit murder." (That's how the Jews translate it.) Ancient Hebrew law allowed for -- even required -- killing in war and execution. So if you want to be technical about it, then no, "Thou shalt not kill" is not "though (sic) shalt not kill."
It's good you asked, so your confusion on those points could be cleared up.
You have a handicap. Englsh is not a language you are familiar with.
This article is not about politics. You are attempting to make it about politics.
This is an article about what the mother....would be mother....will say to the murdered child if and when she is confronted by that child at some future time of God's choosing.
You must not be able to read any better than sharon can.
I have no clue as to how many adult human creatures Mr. McCain killed in Vietnam. Do you know? If you do, I'm sure he would love to hear from you. Most soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen can't say for a certainty how many people they have killed if they have been involved in war. If you have such information then perhaps you should go on one of those shows where they talk to people that 'know' things humans have no real knowledge of.
Those issues, the issues of war and whether it is 'right' or not, are not what I am addressing here. I am addressing the issue of the woman who kills her child rather than have it and adopt it out or ...oh no, raise it the best she can. If God makes her listen to the questions of the unborn and they ask her 'why did you murder me?" and makes her give an answer, what will she say?
Evidently, that question makes you uncomfortable. You refuse to think about it with any semblance of reason and thought and brain power.
Another question is :WHy are you uncomfortable with the question? Have you murdered children and can't bear the thought of being made to answer to them? Or to God?
And if you don't even believe in God, any God, that has the power and authority to call you to account for what you have done or encourage others to do, why are you even here on my pages? How does the question concern you? If there is a God, which in FACT there is!, and when you are called to account for these things, then it will concern you. Up until then, why don't you leave the subject to those for which it was intended, and to me, who brought it up?
Trying to muddy the waters is just plain....well, you know what it is.
I leave the discussion of what to do to all those who go to war, all those who are in favor of war, all those who think war is evil, for another discussion. Because if you read my question at the top of the page, you will see that it doesn't apply here. No matter how much you may dislike Mr. McCain or his brothers in arms.
Obama is in favor of abortion. Partial birth abortion and allowing the living baby, outside the mother's womb, to lie in a bowl and die for lack of care.
It is my strong belief, which cannot be changed by your arrogance, and your false reasoning, that someday he will be made to pay for this. It is my strong belief and in fact, my prayer that he will receive everything that God decides he deserves.
I know it will not change them or their minds, but when they come on my post and try to call me to account for expressing my beliefs and then attempt to change the subject, I feel I just can't not answer them. I get to express my anger and my grief. Anger at them and grief for the the millions of tiny babies that have been tortured and killed in horrendous ways.
As Maude used to say: "God will get them for that."
Nice personal attack, there.
Personal attack.
Personal attack.
I'm glad that I don't stoop to that when trying to make a point in an argument.
My article asked a question. I didn't leave it open-ended.
So if you can't take the heat, stay out of my kitchen.
I never promised on this page to refrain from questioning anyone's abiltiy to read and understand. If that is a personal attack in your mind, then you are severely limited in those areas.
You NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION I ASKED. THAT IS PRECISELY MY POINT!
ARE YOU A 'WOULD HAVE BEEN MOTHER' WHO MURDERED HER UNBORN?
IF SO, ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED.
IF NOT, THEN WHY DID YOU COME TO MY POST?
I NEVER WANTED PEOPLE, ANYONE, FRIEND OR OTHERWISE TO COME BY AND SAY, "NICE ARTICLE'.
I WANTED 'WOULD HAVE BEEN MOTHERS' TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. NOT NECESSARILY HERE, BUT IN THEIR HEART. IF THEY WANTED TO ANSWER IT HERE, THEN FINE.
Not one, no not one, 'would have been mother' or thinking about becoming one, answered my question on this page. Perhaps they did in their mind or heart. I don't know.
And neither do you.
So if you don't have something to say that is on point....ie: what would you say to your unborn, murdered child, as to why you killed them instead of allowing them to live?...then I suggest you find something else to do with your time.
I know I am done trying to get you to listen with what intelligence you may possess. Therefore, this will be my last reply to anything and everything you have to say from this point on unless it is to answer the question I asked.
Thank you very much for stopping by. By the way, I'm not sorry I made you angry.
Because she didn't stay on point either.
i appreciate your concern for the children around the world that don't have enough to eat. If selling my cheap, old computer would keep a child from dying of hunger, then yes, I would do it.
But, you too are missing the point of this post.
I was not trying to address all of the problems in the world. I was seeking to address one topic, with the propounding of one question. A simple question for each woman who has murdered a child or is thinking of doing so. One simple question with one post.
In a court of law, the arguments that Jessica, sharon, and you have brought up would be dealt with thus:
OBJECTION:
Grounds?:
Irrelevant:
SUSTAINED.
Obviously, Jessica didn't want to lose, so she kept coming back with irrelevant remarks.
I tried to explain to her what I am stating to you. Not on point. Stay on point or stop wasting my time. I finally decided that she was never going to stop as long as she could engage me in a war of words.
Now to you question about God killing Obama. God makes the rules. If his decision, which I am praying for, but must leave to him is to kill the man, that is HIS RIGHT AS GOD.
God is not bound by the laws He makes for men to live by. He sets the rules and commands for us. He can do as He chooses to. He can do as He decides is Right!
I said that I ask God to do with Obama, and by the way, all who behave and believe as he does, as Obama DESERVES based on the decision God makes. I said that I pray that God will do in this man's case as God decides that he deserves.
If that means Obama dies at the Hands of the Almighty God and Creator, then I will not argue that God has done anything wrong. And if He chooses to allow him to live, I won't argue with that either.
and to address your last sentence in your comment: I am not debating this. I asked a question. when people like the woman you are defending come on and try to make it a debate, then I state the case for the right treatment of the unborn. They deserve life just as much as any person we can see without the help of radio waves or xrays. They are living breathing humans with the God-given right to go on living unless God decides otherwise.
This will be my final comment to you, as my last one to Jessica was the final one to her.
Go on your own page here on gather and write your own article. And if you ask a question such as: do you think I should get a haircut today or tomorrow, and some one comes back with 'why are you concerned with your hair when squirrels don't have enough acorns' then you and your other commenters can debate those subjects and more serious ones all you want to.
This is my page here on gather. I chose a question based on all of the articles I had been reading, now months ago, on abortion and I got sick with hearing how it was a woman's right to choose whether her baby lived or died.
So I asked a rhetorical question to perhaps, make some of those women THINK!
You don't know my situation. You don't know if I have lost babies, or not helped a hungry child or anything else about me. Other than what I choose to write.
Jesus didn't feed every hungry child and he could perform miracles. He didn't prevent war, and he could perform miracles. God will not be asking him now or in the future why he didn't do more.
I know, and fully expect, to answer to God for everything I did and didn't do. But I will not have to answer to any murdered child why I chose to go in and have a doctor pull them apart, or smother them in salt or stab them in the brain, or suck their brain out, or any other way these women choose to have done.
I will answer to God. But I won't be answering to my children about why I murdered them because I didn't.
And if I choose to sell my computer on ebay or elsewhere, you won't know because you don't really know who I am, now do you? That's just plain stupid for you to say.
I have now said to you all I intend to say because you are not listening.
Don't hurry back to my house on my account.
But thanks for coming by.
I have found that some members will take the comments of others to be ammunition for them to use against the writer or other commenters who agree with the writer. And this happens sometimes when the comment they are using is contrary to the point they are trying to assert.
Thank you for coming back and clarifying. I really appreciate it.
Of course, I don't mean to detract from the question you raised, and I certainly don't want to bring good ol' Mark back to try to answer my questions in a way that would promote abortion. In fact, there's no need for Mark to respond at all, because the point of my comment was to show the sheer stupidity of his.
It seems to be the latest pro-abortion craze, at least on this site, to imply you're wrong for trying to save the unborn if you don't also save everyone else *first*, using your own money, no less, and then provide homes and sustenance for every child that would otherwise be murdered. It's one of the most pathetic arguments I've ever heard, yet they keep putting it forth... Guess they're running out of new ones!
Yes, to answer his venting, you had to get off topic because he was.
He came back and was very verbal in attacking me for saying that his statement that he would look for my computer on ebay was 'stupid' because he doesn't know me; so how could he ever know if I had sold it or not. But is was. I could sell this one to my next door neighbor and buy another, older, cheaper one, and use the money to give to some local charity, and still get back on gather and how would he know?
so he called me names and promoted his political candidate....guess who?....so I deleted his comments.
Thank you, Frank, for showing the absuridity of his 'reasoning'.
If your comment is not on point: not answering the question I asked, and if you are really 'don' meaning as in a male person, you can't directly answer, but only as one who approves and or advocates or performs abortions, could you tell how you would respond to the unborn you helped to kill.
Since you have not done that, you are not commenting according to the question. That means if you attack me for asking the question and then expecting people to either answer it or keep their opinions to themselves or risk being deleted, especially if I am attacked for asking, you will be deleted. Comprehend?
And you also are not 'playing by the rules'. Since I have read your attacks on other threads, and don't intend to have a sparring with you, your comment will not be visible here. If you want to be able to read it over and over and congratulate yourself on your wit, you will have to put it someplace else.
and the s word, which i found when I accidently hit your icon, is to me a foul word....and since you asked , i get to tell you.
another person with the initials sk said something so foul, i could not leave it up long enough to comment on it, but after deleting it, I did make a comment. However, this other person, who evidently has the same initials, is accusing me of trying to force my religion on her and everyone else. If it were possible to 'force my religion' on anyone, I might have done that already and they wouldn't keep attacking me. They would then believe as I believe, which except for the fact of what little I have revealed on gather, they can have no clue as to my over all or detailed beliefs.
i just want to know if you had a mole or cancerous tumor removed from you body, would you want it to be given a voice to ask you why you removed it?
and before anyone says that a fetus shouldn't be likened to a cancerous tumor, do realize that every day women die giving birth, so having a child is just as likely to kill you as that tumor.
Which according to the 'rules' I instituted on my post, is the question you would need to answer in order to qualify to remain on this page and still have committed murder or be in favor of, or promoting.
But it still is not answering the question, and therefore qualifies for deletion at my discretion.
..this is CC M's so called answer to my question.
which is stilll not an answer from one who murdered the unborn baby.
for those interested in the truth of what i said, which technically should be allowed to remain now that i've answered her subject line according to her rules...
actually frank, if you are referring to me, i'm technically not pro-abortion. i believe that if you don't want to get pregnant, use birth control or suck it up and deal with the consequences, and that includes the mental self torment and societal backlash of abortion and adoption choices.
And as I have stated several times, I would not ever murder an unborn baby, so I don't have to tell you what I would say as an answer for doing something I have not done and would not do.
And your response to Jessica.
The people I wrote this question to, the ones that I wanted to THINK about what they were doing, are the would-be mothers who either have had or were thinking of having abortions. I wrote this article months ago...last winter, I believe and no one really answered that question, but I did not delete any comments. Even those persons who just disagreed with me without even saying if they ever had an abortion or not. I didn't delete anyone's comments.
I didn't expect anyone to come on and agree with me anymore than on any other article I have posted. I thought it might be possible that someone would see it and comment.
As I said somewhere above, in response to one of the attacks, I wrote it in response to all of the pro-abortion articles or pro-abortion comments I had read on others's pages.
Aborting an unborn child on purpose is dispicable to me. the thought of it makes me sick.
So, I wrote the question and hoped that some woman who had not made up her mind would read it and decide not to kill her baby.
However, during this day and a day or two previous, I have been attacked for asking the question. when I first began posting on gather, I thought we were supposed to all cap the title of our articles as that is what I saw others do. So, since this was written a long time ago, it is in all caps and until I found where someone had commented back in June, and left a thank you reply, no one...no one ..was reading or commenting on this post. It was way down the list. It had very few comments, some disagreeing with me as I said.
Up until today when I had responded over and over to a young woman and she failed to get my point, wanting to turn this into a political or war article debate, I had not deleted or refused to respond to any commenters.
Then, the real attacks began. comparing the tiny unborn to fecal matter and other offensive comments.
I decided to delete any comments that either promoted abortion, refused to answer the question and get off on other topics, such as my religious beliefs, or in some manner attack me or used foul language.
If a respondant is respectful and answers the question, even hypothetically, then I will not delete the comment unless. With one exception: those ones who have already commented in the offensive manner described in this comment and are just coming back over and over.
I hope that answers your question. Now, Sue*, if you want to come back with an answer to my question, fine.
You premise is inaccurate in that you believe that prochoice means we are for abortion, no we are for the individual right, it is in the constitution.
To answer your question, and I am not sure I would have the courage of having an abortion since I never had to face that situation, but if I did have one and would face the baby, I would be happy to find out, that I am most likely in heaven and I have been forgiven.
When you have an IF questions all you will get is an IF answer....it means absolutely nothing.
I am sure women who have them suffer to a degree through out their lives.
I had a miscarriage and I felt the loss at 2 months.
I am not for abortion, my stance is based on practical reason.
In a catholic country we had abortions illegally and many women died.
To make it illegal will not stop abortions, but it may kill the mothers also or women would have them and some will trash them, we have seen that here where abortions are legal.
The only remedy is to reduce the need for them to occur by changing people's hearts and mind and have reverence for life.
Education is very important in that area.
Also by providing opportunity for adoptions and health care and guidance for women.
Obama does not personally approve abortion, he is standing for civil rights signed years ago in to law.
He does not support killing babies that are alive after an abortion either. The senate passed that law, he was only against the clauses that applied to the doctors involved and those clause were removed before it passed .
Now you have planned parenthood agreeing also on this issue.
In the end I believe we are all affected by this laws and there is no real solution that will work for everyone alike.
A president cannot change that on its own, the courts will have to decide and the people will have to agree.
My final comment is that we kill people everyday with words, the tongue can be sharper than a sword, we kill their spirit and in God's eyes it is just as bad if not worse.
I have always thought we pay too much attention to the body and not nearly enough to the spirit.
We feed our children and give them every-thing yet most often their soul is starved.
I was adopted and had wonderful parents who could not have children and as a child it did bother me that my mother had given me away.Later as I got older and had my children I understood her situation and why she had done it.
Life is not always fair, yet I believe I had a better life with my adoptive parents and was grateful for her decision.
If she had aborted I guess I would be in heaven now...
I appreciate your answer, though I do not agree with everything you said.
By the way, you didn't seem to understand my comment. It was certainly not abortion focused. It was more about the perspective of spontaneous miscarriage, which I know a bit about, and actually trying to imagine the point of view of these aborted babies.
I'm someone who believes that if one uses the word "technically" before a statement, the statement should be technically true. Some people, though, use the word "technically" to mean "seems this way to me."
You have removed 23 comments so far, and those comments did not impugn the intelligence of those who oppose abortions.
It does not strengthen your argument to remove the comments of those who disagree with you.
It looks weak, as though your arguments cannot really stand up to scrutiny and debate.
The fact is, Roe was a political decision made by people in black robes. It's nowhere in the Constitution.
yet *n*k* proved otherwise and you are now not disputing that rather the wording that i chose to use.
now according to Miriam-Webster, the adverb "technically" stems from the pronoun "technical" which they define as the following:
2 a: of or relating to a particular subject b: of or relating to a practical subject organized on scientific principles
now, since science is based on theoretical ideals proven by hypothosis, technically my use of the word is correct.
I wonder who the millions of lost people would have been, had they been given their right to life. Poets, artists, writers, scientists, farmers, neighbors, friends, lovers....but it is never to be.
My friend aborted a child just before I became pregnant. I know that when she sees my daughter, she thinks of her own lost child. I don't say anything judgmental. She is punishing herself more than enough.
I didn't expect any answers. I thought the answers would occur in their hearts. I wanted to make them THINK. why is that so hard for people to understand?
I DIDN'T EXPECT ANYONE WHO HAD already had an abortion to come on and write their answer unless it was someone who is hard hearted and had it to get rid of an inconvenience and some of those people are very bold and outspoken.
But in truth, I didn't expect anyone to say how they would respond.
Your characterization of me is unfounded. I don't have to prove how evil it is. EVERYone alreadys knows.
I too know about miscarriage. And miscarriage is a terrible thing, but totally different from abortion. In point of fact, those women who want a baby or love their baby and then have a miscarriage are insulted when they find 'abortion' written on their medical records.
I believe that someday in the future, the aborted babies and those miscarried will have a chance at life. I believe God will make this possible. And if the baby were to be in a position of finding out that it's mom had killed it, what would it say?
I was hoping the answer to that question would touch the hearts and minds of anyone who had not already given in to the propaganda of it's not a baby until it's born. Would at least think about that before they killed it and if they thought enough, might decide to let it live.
this was never meant to be a debate. Perhaps on other's pages it is, but not on my page. It was not meant to be a debate.
as an artist i can say society would rather i be an insurance salesman based on how many times in my life i've been told "that's not a real job", "why don't you grow up and get a job at walmart or something so that your a useful member of society" or "that's a nice hobby, but what are you going to do for a living?." honestly, being an artist is condeming yourself to a life of poverty and distain by most of society. would you want that for your kids?
and how come no one wonders how many of those might have turned out to be serial killers or tyranical dictators or garbage men for that matter?
I'm sorry about your friend. and her lost baby. And all the lost babies.
I guess what I would say to this child would be: "Why did you leave me? Why did this omnipotent being take you from me? Why didn't he intervene? Why didn't he make sure that you were healthy and happy?" If there were a God, he is a rotten being for allowing this "abortion" to happen to me. Will he answer my questions when/if I meet him one day?
I did not delete any comments until I was attacked after asking that my request be respected. Instead of respect, I was called names. and if you look up the thread, you will see earlier comments that were attacks on me that I did not delete.
Evidently, some gather members just know their own mind and nothing more.
you said you had a problem with my use of that word, so i tried to explain to you the usage of it. should i draw you a picture next time as it seems your the one lacking in understanding now?
i get what you are saying, i do know how to read and comprehend the english language. however i don't believe that my original comment was around long enough before it got deleted for you to have gotten a proper grasping on what i was saying and are now just fixating on what you believe was there, or your interpretation of what i was saying is.
that is the problem with deleting comments. all further comments relating to that one suddenly become convaluted.
From whose point of view? I thought this was about the babies.
In point of fact, those women who want a baby or love their baby and then have a miscarriage are insulted when they find 'abortion' written on their medical records.
I wasn't insulted. First of all, I knew that was the medical term, and that its use in that sense predated the "induced termination" sense. (And exactly, what is one to make of the word "mis-carry"? What does that imply? Secondly, I was too devastated by the situation to care about what they put on the records, or to feel superior to those who, in a desperate situation, chose to terminate their pregnancies on their own account.
Robiyah, i can't imagine the impact of that on one's psyche. hugs lady.
Because it has turned into a debate. And some people seem to want to advocate 'choice'.
So, if you have been here before, and I have commented on your comment, I will most likely not comment on it again. be aware though: if you get nasty with me or another pro baby life commenter, your comment will be deleted.
and if you are ones I have deleted previously because of foul mouth, or name calling, you will again be deleted.
That was very hard on me physically and emotionally. When I received teh bill for my hospital stay, It said abortion. My heart just broke. I knew I did not have an abortion but I called the Dr anyway and they told me that is how they always write up a tubal pregnacy.
That was many years ago and I still think about it
You're missing the point, Frank.
Shirley said that she deleted my and other people's comments because we didn't answer the question. Yet she now admits that she never really wanted an answer.
I didn't say she was consistent in practice. She's obviously not. I was pointing out that she could never have been consistent with that set-up. It's a contradiction.
I was trying to say that if you found it necessary to have an abortion and it was the hardest thing you would ever have to do......I feel for your pain in that you seem to feel, maybe I am misunderstanding here, that one day you might be in that position....of making that hardest of all decisions.
If you don't think you ever will be in that position, then I misunderstood and my 'i feel for you' is unnecessary.
I used to work with medical records and found that many women who lose a baby, sometimes not knowing they were pregnant, are shocked by the word on their records. I know I didn't like seeing it on mine when I lost my babies.
But doctors won't change the terminology for our feelings.
That's pretty much all I have to say on the topic. 31 comments deleted on a controversial article isn't a good sign in my opinion.
Bottom line, if you don't agree with abortions as in the procedural type. . . don't have one. Problem solved.
Most of the deletions were the same person or persons. If those people come back, as I have stated several times. I will continue to delete. this was not to be a debate.