The US has yet to try ONE of these people but a decision to seek the death penalty has been made for six of them, including KSM and his nephew, as well as the so-called 2oth hijacker who couldn't get into the country. Now that would increase the international focus on the case and present new challenges to the troubled military commission system. So far the system hasn't even been able to handle far less complicated cases . . .
Guantanamo has no death chamber and we have no idea how an execution would be carried out. In an unrelated, yet 'shocking' development . . . the Pentagon has NO commment. Who saw that coming? Not covered by military justice rules (the military uses lethal injection) one wonders how they would be executed? Relatives of the Sept. 11 victims have expressed differing views of potential death sentences, with some arguing that it would accomplish little other than martyring men for whom martyrdom may be viewed as a reward.
One relative, Debra Burlingame, who is the sister of American Airlines Flight 77 pilot (Pentagon Crash) had this to say: ""My opinion is," she said, "if the death of 3,000 people isn't sufficient for a death penalty in this country, then why do we even have the death penalty?"
Military Commission Courtroom - New York Times
The Bush-in-Chief military system he set up to avoid those damn pesky Constitutional details has been NOTHING but trouble and has completed only one of the more than 80 cases they were thinking of handling . . . and that one by plea bargain! One wonders if they ever intended to prosecute . . . or just to hold them forever. Just ASKING for a death penalty is sure to draw some INTENSE international scrutiny, and even some domestic issues.
Franz Kafka is alive and well in Cuba if a (so-called) trial can end the life of another person who cannot see all the evidence against him due to National Security concerns . . . nor confront witnesses . . . and who enjoys being the target of secret proceedings and closed door trials. How about evidence they get during torture interrogations? How is all that being handled? Who knows . . . it's not like we'll see any of it? Just a blip in the paper that one was executed after a "conviction" and that's all people need to know?
If we don't have the clarity of moral vision to know that this is wrong, then I'll oppose this alone. I don't like it. I don't like secret proceedings with anonymous witness transcripts and information derived from torture being used to kill people in the name of the US Government. In MY name. In OUR names.
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 43
I read this article in the Times and had a response similar to yours. More than anything, this announcement seems designed to let all us citizens know that our government is hard at work seeking "justice."
One question for you. If not this porceedure, then what?
Secret trials in Cuba are just the beginning.
Can secret trials here be far behind?
Lori . . . you seem to march to the beat of your own drummer . . . if I ever find him I'm gonna give him a swift kick . . . right in the green card! :P
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
I second that sentiment. I don't like ANYbody being put to death in the name of the US Government, or a US State government. When are we going to come into the modern age, as all other civilized western civilizations and get rid of the death penalty in this country, or used by any US citizen in the name of this country? It is barbaric. This will only serve to further support the cause of the Islamic radicals against the US.
I recall some time ago when the Commander-N-Chimp took the mike, leaned forward, snickered and said out the side of his mouth to the camera: "If I got 'im in my sites, I'd take my shot," which was Mr. Bush's homey way of saying he'd like to murder Saddam Hussein in cold blood (of course as a younger man, Mr. Bush had his chance to go kill some evil-doing Vietcong and passed).
That's chilling.
I'm disturbed by such rhetoric from our leaders and potential leaders. The republican debates have been a one-up who can talk about killing people more-fest.
This past April, Mr. Obama said we have to build up the military for a possible confrontation with China (Dem Debate) (obviously, being younger and of less experience, Mr. Obama doesn't know what M.A.D. is and if elected, I'm sure there'll be someone who's been around awhile to explain it to him -- I've repeatedly eMailed Senator Obama's camp over the past months asking for clarification, but since my name's not Oprah or Larry King, I get no answer at all).
If it's about the numbers, the almost 3,000 people from 30 plus nations who died on 9-11, how many of them have to die under the hands of the U.S. before we call it even? If it's about the numbers -- if killing people somehow gets us even.
How many?
And, if so, do we count the 10's of 1000's who've died in Iraq and Afghanistan? The U.N. puts the number of Iraqi 'collateral damage' at 1/2 million. Other organizations put the number higher, some as high as 2 million.
How many until we're even?
Maybe, to satisfy the bloodthirsty -- revenge driven American, we should catch Bin Laden, clone him and every year for ten years, at superbowl halftime, torture him and then behead him, with 20 different cameras going and John Madden to doing some chalk-boarding.
"And when the bat hit him here! Pow! You know that broke a rib!"
We can have fireworks, dancing girls and Paul McCartney and John Ashcroft singing "let the Eagle Soar."
Maybe leading up to superbowl, we can have a 'most patriotic American' contest, along the line of American Idol. The winner gets to take his or her shot, murdering the Bin Laden, the crowd can cheer, and we'll know, deep in our heart, God is proud of us!
Oh yeah, and the children will dance in the street.
That this has been going on so long and not stopped is a black mark against all of us who believe in a fair world. That our government is doing it is appalling and shameful.
At least, that's my opinion.
NY TIMES HEADLINE: "U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case"
"It spelled out carefully all of the rights of the Government and the accused. "
Did it really? DO share! Will they admit evidence derived from torture? Will they reinstate habeus corpus? Share with me WHAT rights they say the accused have . . . I'm fascinated.
"One question for you. If not this porceedure, then what? "
Well, how about the established legal procedures we've used in this country up until Bush invented these pathetic Commissions offshore as a way to get around the US Constitution? Some people hate the Constitution, like Bush, and work their ass off to find ways in which they can get around it. That's the sole reason he established both the offshore prisons and this commission . . . The Country did fine handling international criminals BEFORE Bush . . . and this failed Commission has YET to have ONE trial because they don't HAVE to. Justice? Maybe in some third world fascist dictatorship . . . . but not what I have come to know and expect from MY country.
Thanks Penni . . . though I don't think we're soft.
Don! How's it going, my friend. No, there's been NO conviction yet. Oh wait . . . there hasn't even been a trial! NOT ONE!
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
The mayor of a nearby city is being accused of not supporting the troops because he denied the Marine Corp. Reserve permission to practice urban combat in his city.
Troops in American cities , training for what?
Toledo looks nothing like Baghdad .
Sheryl, we'll be called terrorist sypathizers soon, but I agree . . . making martyrs for (and of) them will do nothing good.
Karl, thanks for the input. If it's numbers how does the over a million dead count in there? The most reliable study is at over a million. Your superbowl half-time entertainment would be better as a pay-per-view show. THEN we could get a balanced budget.
Thanks Stephanie . . . you're right . . . it's been too long!
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Same crap, different flies.
1. Love the lie and lie the love
Hangin' on, with a push and shove
Possession is the motivation
that is hangin' up the God-damn nation
Looks like we always end up in a rut (everybody now!)
Tryin' to make it real — compared to what?
2. Slaughterhouse is killin' hogs
Twisted children killin' frogs
Poor dumb rednecks rollin' logs
Tired old ladies kissin' dogs
Hate the human, love that stinking mutt (I can't stand it!)
Try to make it real — compared to what?
3. The President, he's got his war
Folks don't know just what it's for
Nobody gives us rhyme or reason
Have one doubt, they call it treason
We're chicken-feathers, all without one gut (God damn it!)
Tryin' to make it real — compared to what? (Sock it to me, now)
4. Church on Sunday, sleep and nod
Tryin' to duck the wrath of God
Preacher's fillin' us with fright
Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right
He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!)
Tryin' to make it real — compared to what?
5. Where's that bee and where's that honey?
Where's my God and where's my money
Unreal values, crass distortion
Unwed mothers need abortion
Kind of brings to mind ol' young King Tut (He did it now)
Tried to make it real — compared to what?!
© Eugene McDaniels
If the rules don't apply to everyone, they're meaningless. I have no objection to capital trials myself - but I don't like convicting anyone by innuendo and inference, using torture for confessions, etc. Those barbaric, dark ages methodologies should have gone by the wayside centuries ago. If there is proof, bring it in an open trial. If not, they don't deserve anything, including endless incarceration.
adjective ( madder , maddest )
mentally ill; insane : he felt as if he were going mad.
• (of a person, conduct, or an idea) extremely foolish or ill-advised : they were all mad to go believing such a cock-and-bull story.
• in a frenzied mental or physical state : she pictured loved ones mad with anxiety about her | it was a mad dash to get ready.
• informal enthusiastic about someone or something : I wasn't mad about mountain bikes | [in combination ] a sports-mad nation.
• informal very angry : they were mad at each other.
• (of a dog) rabid.
• Brit., informal very exciting.
That "my friends" (John McCain Statement) That above is the definition of George Bush and his clan, just in case you might have missed the memo.
Thanks for the article. Have a great day
If the truth came out and abuses were published and the root cause analyzed I see not reason why we cannot have military justice work here.
This is a pretty minor situation, and it took 3 years or something to convict Jose Padilla ... imagine 3000 terrorist all having to be tried with wacko lefties demostrating outside the prison to let them go.
That's what the radical Islamists say about us. When will it stop? When at least one side exhibits sanity.
Not with that shirt!
I wonder what other coincidences will occur before November?
Meryl, these aren't the ones who flew into the buildings . . . they're dead, right? Should we string up anyone Bush points out?
"I have no objection to capital trials myself - but I don't like convicting anyone by innuendo and inference, using torture for confessions, etc. Those barbaric, dark ages methodologies should have gone by the wayside centuries ago. "
Interesting . . . you condone the barbaric, dark ages muder of criminals but not the method of convicting them? Interesting.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
* For the record I happen to have some very good Islamic friends . . . and I apologize to all those that wear turbans for equating them with Jett for a cheap laugh.
Nice point Brian . . . on a deeper level, I wonder what other fear based danger will rear its ugly head to polarize the electorate to seek protection. That worries me more than many other things right now.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
H.L. Mencken said, "Hanging one scoundrel, it appears, does not deter the next. Well, what of it? The first one is at least disposed of." That's pretty much how I feel about it. My father got me started researching some of the less savory folks there were (he handed me every bit of rape research and serial killer research he could; forewarned was forearmed for my father) and the one prevailing thread for me was the number of people committing years and years of violent crimes for which they were caught and "punished" before they started killing in earnest and for pleasure.
Dead people can't escape or be released and hurt anyone else.
Note, that that is just my opinion.
Having said that, no one should be punished - by incarceration, torture, death, anything, unless a crime has been proven. If the government feels these people have committed crimes deserving of death, they should be able to prove it using the same rules that apply to everyone else.
> It's just another ploy by the Bush Administration to
> "Remind" ppl that they should be scared of the boogie man.
Tony, you are scared (apparently witless) of the boogie man - Bush.
Brian, some sane people are afraid of Bush,
but that does not mean all people that are
afraid of Bush to the extent that they refer
to him as the Boogie man are sane.
top reaction Bush has gotten from his oppostion has itself
been inffective at opposing him, and has by association made
it more difficult for he rational moderate opposition to get
traction. Sane is the ability to pursue your interests rationally.
What the extreme Democrats and the Obama group are is
the opposite of that.
Does that mean he's evil or he's incompetent? I don't know, but that he was so successful in doing so much damage to our reputations and our constitution, as well as this country directly is a sad commentary on how readily an intelligent system can be subverted.
> done since 2000 is so perfectly rational. . .
Hardly, I agree with your sarcasm there, but it is not
rational or productive to think that mere contridiction
is argument, let alone intelligent argument ... a point
I think was made by Monty Python.
Barack Obama's run is based on saying the war was
stupid from the Illinois state legislature, without access
to Bush's lies. He made a good call.
Now with less than a full term in the Senate he thinks
his brand of logic, smooth talking without accomplishments
or experience is the answer to the country.
And many in the democratic party are going for this
ridiculousness, and that is what I call insane.
Barack Obama is willing to pander on the war, while
he backtracks to peice together a platform on other
things taking advanate of infatuation the media has
with him, that will soon show its real colors.