Since the Surge began, the debate over the War in Iraq had settled down a bit. Those who are anti-war have toned down their rhetoric and have been less vocal about their opposition. But there are still a few who are just as vocal as ever. Contrary to all evidence, they have said that the Surge has failed. They take a few unfortunate incidents, and declare all the efforts of our troop's failures.
Well, those who say that the Surge is a failure are either lying to themselves, refusing to accept reality, or are just making stupid statements to get votes and get on the news. I am against this war, but even I have to admit it. The Surge has worked; casualties, both US and Iraqi, are down. Violence has decreased substantially. The majority of Iraq is now peaceful and under control. Iraq is not perfect, and no one ever said it would be, but it is undeniable that it is better than it was last year or even the year before.
All of this is, of course, very good news. Even though I am against the war, I still want our troops and our country to succeed, and redeem ourselves for this ill conceived war. But the current successes in Iraq are not permanent. The Surge was never intended to be a long term solution to Iraq's problems. It was intended to make Iraq stable and create the environment necessary for the Iraqi government to pull together and take over. And to an extent, it has done this. But they are still a long way from being independent from the US. Eventually, our troops will leave, and the Iraqi government will be forced to pick up the slack, and they just are not prepared for this.
Like I said, I am willing to admit that the surge worked, and I am very happy. But what happens when our troops leave? What happens if Iraqi forces are not prepared and fold during their first missions? We will fall back to 2006 and be on the brink of civil war once again? The Surge was a success, but only in the short term. The surge was years too late and half-assed. I am not suggesting that all is lost. If anyone can fix Iraq, its the US. And the consequences of leaving are greater than those of staying. I'm saying we need a radically new strategy. We need to stop looking at Iraq in a one-dimensional manner. Troops alone cannot win this. Diplomatic force, not military, is what is needed now. Until we do this, then Iraq and the US will be stuck in a perpetual state of war.
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Comments: 32
The purpose was to give the Iraqi government time to actually do something about the political problems and thereby prevent a return (if it's ever stopped) to civil war.
How many refugees from Iraq have been comfortable and come back home? Is it safe to walk the streets of Baghdad now without guard and without protective armor? In Anabar province the ethnic cleansing is completed so there will be no violence there?
We know the answers to these questions so I am reluctant to call the "surge" a success until someone defines or redefines it's purpose and what success looks like.
There is not a shadow of doubt in my mind that when we leave there, regardless if we wait ten years, there will be an overthrow of the government and a bloodbath. We are not going to prevent it by staying, only postpone it.
This entire mess is one of the most tragic endeavors in which the United States has ever made the error of engaging!
I don't know about you, but any person that would do something like that is not normal and needs to be removed from the face of the earth. And guess what... there are many more like that out there.
James, that is a serious concern. Because the war was so poorly planned, that is a real possibility. However, Iraq does not have to end that way. We can fix it. Troops can help, but what we really need is to step up our diplomatic efforts. We have been soft on the Iraqi government. We need to be on their asses all the time and force them to make progress. And yes, we can do that.
While I sincerely hope you are right, I have no confidence that we will succeed because of the enmity we have generated in that land by occupying a sovereign nation. The people liked having Saddam removed but they never wanted us to stay. And I can't see where we can ever make that government legitimate.
If we can, more power to us but I'm a skeptic on this one. And the civil war has not stopped. If we can keep Al Queda out of there we'll be doing good. But when can the Sunnis that were living in Baghdad come home and kick the Shiites out who now occupy their homes? Or the Shiites in Anabar? Since ethnic cleansing, there are few Shiites left in Anabar but some left as refuges and can never come home it would appear.
I cannot escape the feeling that we are investing American lives, twelve billion dollars a month, and the domestic tranquility for a lost cause. However, the UN could move in there with the approval of the Iraqi people and stabilize the situation. They say they are ready as soon as we start pulling out. I'm all for giving them that chance. When GWB invaded without their blessing and approval, he effectively rendered the UN impotent, this might rejuvenate the organization.
Appreciate your explanation and views!
We have caused nearly a million deaths. Millions of displaced folks, and for what? Nothing! There is NO Al-Quada in Iraq. The news bombards us with this false fact every day, as do politicians. There are millions of really pissed off Iraqis whose country we invaded, and destroyed on many fronts! Of course they are willing to blow us up over there..we fricken invaded their country, and killed their children!!!
We are merely occupying their country now. We are not fighting a war...We are expecting our soldiers to occupy, and control a country we have messed up royally! We are building permanent bases there with your hard earned tax dollars, and the hard earned tax dollars of your children, and their offspring! Our country is on the verge of economic meltdown, and we occupy a foreign country? Our overused soldiers have been 100% abused by our government. They sleep in flea, and mold infested tents in 120 degree heat...While private US mercenaries sleep in airconditioned baracks with cabel TV!
The private contractor ripofffs alone are already close to 200 billion dollars of OUR money! Anyone realize what the Clintons, and Bushes have accomplished here?
First...they enacted laws that allow free trade with our enemies. China, and Mexico, and even India. That created a vacuum, that sucked most of our manufacturing jobs to countries with slave labor, and no environmental laws.
They left our borders completely open while claiming to be concerned about NATIONAL SECURITY! They engineered a false flag event on 9/11...to scare us all into submission! They passed laws taking away our right to an attorney! They passed laws to spy on us with no court required intervention!
They turned us into sheep who will do as they wish! They own the voting system now since it is almost 100% computerized, and 100% hackable. They keep passing more and more laws that favor jailing the poor...like drugs laws...etc...Folks...George Washington smoked pot!! A little known fact! The father of our country used it to combat his diseases he had...including very poor teeth!
I envision a Hillary vs McCain debacle! Ack!! I could not vote for either of them! The real controllers of our government are big business, and mostly the Federal Reserve Bank! A false bank that is not any more federal than federal express. Just as the Bank of England, has zero to do with English government...it is a private bank controlled by the Rothchilds....
Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now! He was worried that banks could take control...Well, they have!! Ever since 1913...Banks have OWNED our government! That is when the ILLEGAL federal reserve was created!
Basically, a handfull of the wealth now control our world! And they don't give a rat's ass about any peons like us! The Clintons and Bushes are pawns controlled by these evil forces...their ultimate goal...reduce world population to a managable level of maybe 500 million or so!
We have less say in our government now, than the Germans did when Htiler was taking over in Germany! We have got to be the laughing stock of the world right now. "The home of the free and the brave"...is now the home of the controlled, and the scared! In a democracy, the government is supposed to be scared of the people! We are all now scared of our government. Even police forces are preparing for civil unrest now!
We are also being completley screwed out of one of our most major resources that WE all own! OUR OIL! WE all own the northern slope oil in Alaska! The largest known reserves on the planet! why are we not tapping it right now? Because government, and big oil want to rape us over the price of it!
I voted for the Democrats in 2006 because I wanted to get out of Iraq, and do it in a positive way. I wanted to make sure that Iraq would be successful after we left. The left should not be afraid of victory. They should not be so dedicated to trying to put down and destroy the successes of the military. Many people in WWI and WWII were against the war. But they still pushed for victory instead of defeat. They still supported the troops, their mission, and the President. They still wanted success. The Left is only supporting defeat. I dont even know if they want the US to succeed anymore. There is nothing positive coming from them. I'll still vote for a Democrat in 2008, but I want one that has a positive, not a defeatist, spin on Iraq.
The problem here is that you need to define the meaning of "worked" in terms of your understanding. Did an increase in troops cut violence? Of course! That's a given. But is that all that was supposed to be accomplished? I don't think so, do you?
The second was the political progress of the Iraqi government. That where it has "failed." However, some progress has been made and continues to be made. Its just very, very, very slow, and we should not expect it to be any other way. But compared to the political situation in 2005 or 2006, the effects of the surge in Iraqs political realm can be considered a success, albeit a small one.
But the point is that the surge, like so much in this war, was ill concieved and half-assed. There was too much attention on the military side of the war, which was an attempt to reduce media attention on the violence. Iraq needs political pressure to make things move faster. That is the only way Iraq will ever get better, and it will determine when things get better. I believe that the military surge was a huge success. But the political surge is on the border of success and failure.
The American People want out of there and any time last week is fine! The Iraqi people want us out of there three years ago. I haven't the slightest doubt that if we stay ten years, the day we leave all hell will break loose and the government, which is viewed as a puppet government, will be overthrown with much bloodshed! Just how long is enough?
And, the civil war will be in active mode when we leave. These people were held quiet by the heavy had of Saddam for many years but without that force they have no track record of being able to work together and form any kind of government. They do not want to work together.
One fo the reasons for decreased violence has been the ethnic cleansing in Anabar province and Baghdad. When the people you hate are all gone there is no need for violence! I believe it is time to call in the United Nations, which is ready to take over, and get the hell out as quickly as can be safely and orderly done!
I'm know we disagree on this and that's kind of normal for different people. I respect your view.
James, Iraq does not have to fall into civil war when we leave. However, it will if we take as much time to plan a withdrawal as we did when we planned the invasion.
THanks Austin
Those of us who can see things clearly are not going to begin holding hands and singing about how wonderful things are there. They aren't. After five years the Iraqis still cannot even train recruits to be soldiers. They are still murdering one another. That's not success by any measure. I'll freely and happily admit things over there are getting better when the Iraqi government begins taking action and governing.
The various tribe as ethnic groups each want total control and this is achieved by defeating the others by force. That's what they know and have experienced. Perhaps, if they can complete all the ethnic cleansing they want, they can avoid civil war.
What I am saying is that, with military concerns, the surge has worked. No matter how you look at it, the security and military situation is a vast improvement than what it was before. That is an undeniable fact.
Politically, the surge has not done so well. Yes, the political situation was the main focus of the surge. And if you want to compare the political situation to how it was a year ago, then it has improved. However, the political situation would have been better if the US gave it as much attention on it as it did the military situation. But it is not fair to expect every single political issue in Iraq to be resolved in a few months. Its impossible and unrealistic to expect it.
Overall, the surge can be seen as a successful failure. It achieved in bringing stability, in terms of security. But the political progress has not kept pace with the security progress. We all want our troops out as soon as possible. Until the US steps up political pressure on Iraq, then the troops will have to stay longer.
I am not here to debate whether or not the surge worked. I am here to discuss whether the success of the surge really matters. And as far as I can see, it does not. Its a short term solution at best. We are stalling for time. Our troops will leave eventually, and unreliable and ill-prepared Iraqi troops will take over. Its one step forward and two steps back. Its great that violence is down. Its great that the terrorists are being beaten. But Iraq does not need that. Iraq needs a political and diplomatic solution. US troops can only do so much. The international community and the US government must come down hard on the Iraqi government to make real political process. The US needs to send its best diplomats to Iraq for 12-15 month deployments, just like the military. A working political situation and unity among the Iraqi people will be more than enough to end this war. But unless the US, the international community, and Iraq are willing to try to hammer our a real political situation, then the war will drag on and our troops will never leave.
You mention Washington going out and suppressing uprisings. Fine, let the government of Iraq put down the uprisings, that would be the same. Our government was brand new under Washington and we really didn't have one yet.
You're going to have to get a government that the people are willing to recognize as legitimate in Iraq for them to accomplish anything. One set up by the United States essentially, just doesn't cut it.
Yes, the "surge" worked, and now we're setting there on top of a restless, angered, bitter and angry populace hoping for a miracle! That's a "victory" of some sort but not what we needed.
The next question, is can we, the United States, afford what is needed? Thats continued twelve billion dollars a month, the fragmentation of our own stability, the continued loss of lives and the ill will we are generating in every Muslim nation in the world. If so, how long, 100 years as McCain has suggested? I don't think so! How can any US candidate or president say to the American people "I want you to pay taxes to fund my little misadventure in the Mideast for another ten years. It's a bargain at only 12 billion dollars a year" and still look the American people in the eye?
Cal Thomas, the arch conservative writer/commentator, had an article in the Sunday paper today stating that the other nations have been pikers in paying the costs of this war. The two nations who would be most affected by our failure and most able to assist have promised only a million dollars between them! That's Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Thats far less than what they had pledged and as he stated, "that's chump change!"
It's time we let the nations most affected by anything in the Mideast to start carrying the load, filling the body bags and putting on the political pressure! Uncle Sam has been carrying this almost by himself, for far longer than was needed. The UN sets there ready to move in the day we move out. Let them!
Anyways, the surge did work. When you compare everything to how it was a year ago, the situation has greatly improved on all fronts; political, military/security, and the economic situations have made vast improvements. That is undeniable. Yes, things are slow, but that does not mean that it is a failure.
But the point of the article is not whether or not the surge worked (which it did). The point is whether or not it matters. As I have said before, US troops will leave. Then what? We go back to the years 2006. All the gains would be pointless.