God vs. Science? - A Rebuttal

This is my refutation to a post by Ryan McReynolds titled "God vs. Science? or did Science forget it's creator?"

I'll attempt to keep my rebuttals short, because I don't want to spend time arguing against a position built upon fallacy from the start.  I'll apologize upfront for any lashing out or snide comments that may occur, but please try to realize that this sort of misinformation and blind, unsupported argument should be corrected whenever and wherever it is encountered.

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I title the article like this because 1st of all Science itself really was inspired by scripture repeatedly.

All of science, you say?  Wow, I hope you'll show how!

My Christian faith has never been against the practice of Science itself at all, Science certainly has done many wonderful things.

I'm glad to hear that, because science is the best way we've found so far to determine reality.

Sadly though, where are those who came up with these really questionable scientific explainations [sic] without actually checking cleary[sic] and teaching such things as facts rather than as theories.

"Really questionable scientific explanations"?  Scientists not checking facts?  Theories?!

It's obvious that you're setting up a straw man argument in a vain attempt to discredit science.  It's also obvious in doing so that you have no understanding of what science actually is, and you make the layman assumption that a theory is just a guess.

Like I said, I want to keep this brief, so please follow the links I provide and read up on the nature of science and scientific theory – that is, if you actually care about seeking the truth, regardless of what you might find.

Simply, the general usage of "theory" and the scientific use of the term are completely different in meaning.  The colloquial "theory" is just a guess.  In science, however, a theory is the highest pinnacle a hypothesis can reach.  It's a way of explaining observable fact.

I take it you believe in the theory of gravity, the theory of sexual reproduction, and the theories of electricity and magnetism, right?  Or do you reject them too?
 
For instance we are told that the Dinosaurs died out 65 Million Years ago? How can scientists really be sure of this when mankind has actually observed only 6000 years of History (6000 years ago being when Adam and Eve was created).

Yeah really.  It's like they just pulled it out of their ass, huh?  Stupid scientists…if they'd only read *my* bible, they'd see how wrong they are.

Sorry for that jab, but do you honestly think that someone just made up that number one day?

The only way we can learn about dinosaurs is by studying their fossils.  We first found these fossils in 1676 (first scientifically described was the Megalosaurus in 1824), and since then our methods and science has dramatically improved, as I'm sure you would agree.

We can know how old a fossil is by a process of examining the inside of the fossilized bones. It turns out that bones record their growth history in tissue similar to the way a tree's years can be counted in its rings. As an animal ages, certain kinds of tissue are deposited while others are eroded. Comparing the fossilized bone tissue with samples from juvenile and hatchling dinosaur bones and also samples from modern animals, researchers can piece together the entire growth history of various dinosaurs.

Also did scientists who made that estimation ever really bother to do some simple math…

I'm quite sure they did.  By the way, what makes you more qualified to know the age of something than someone who actually studies it?

The point is that ok we don't really know the exact age of the Earth, we know it's not younger than 6000 years, is it any older than 6000 years? well it might be, we can guarantee 6000 years for lowers possible age of Earth, if there is a higher age it could be 8000 years, 10,000 years, 12,000 years, 15,000 years but we ourselves and our ancestors weren't around before 6,000 years ago to make the observation so what can we say really on the age of the Earth.

Are you suggesting that since no one was around to see it, it couldn't have happened?

True, we don't know the *exact* age of the Earth, but we know it's defiantly older than a measly 6000 years (around the time of the domestication of the dog).  Much older.  The most direct means for calculating the Earth's age involves some pretty demanding science, including isochron dating and the decay rate of certain isotopes and the ration of uranium-to-lead.  I don't understand it all myself—I'm not all that educated in chemistry or geology—but many more brilliant men than I certainly do.

What I can say is that I do not believe the Earth is 5 Billion years old, I do not even believe that the Earth has been around for even over a Million years, I do not even think the Earth is older than 100,000 years either.

It's your belief, and you're welcome to it.  You can also believe that the stars aren't billions of light years away from earth, or that the earth itself is flat.

But if you want to know reality, you'll need to take the time to research the evidence and *learn*.

Ok I am sure you are asking what about the Dinosaurs? well have you ever read in scripture about the Leviathan, Dragons and Monsters? sure I know you are maybe thinking Monsters and Dragons are make believe, but the Bible actually speaks of such things and the Chinese who practiced religions like Buddhism, Confusism, Taoism and so forth insisted that Dragons had been real, and their images of Dragons do resemble our graphics on what Dinosaurs may have looked like, perhaps the Chinese dragons are the same thing as those biblical dragons and the same thing as some of the breeds of Dinosaurs as well.

I believe some of the species of Dinosaurs are also the same as the Monsters and the Leviathan mentioned in scripture as well.

You're presupposing that the bible is true, then looking for reasons to make it fit your preconceptions.

Life was scary for early man.  Even today, we have an innate fear of the unknown, because what you don't know might kill you.  If you wanted to go into a cave, but had no fear of what might already be in there, you'd probably get eaten (and the one's who were afraid stayed alive to bred…but hey, that's evolution, and you don't believe that either).

Humans are also very imaginative.  These tales of half truths and imagination spread through word-of-mouth over trade routes and early civilization.  As humans migrated, they shared stories and took local legends abroad. 

You're going to find similarities in all religions and civilizations, because the common factor is *human*.  It's it strange too, that the bible also talks about tents and shelters, and halfway around the world—where people hadn't even read it—their were people living in shelters?!

Also when you read about Dinosaur bones, most of the ones that are found do appear to have evidence of having been killed by flooding, also you can find bent trees and Human bones in the piles as well.

They do, eh?  Please provide your sources for this information.

Even *if* all dinosaurs had been killed by a flood, it would not in any way prove the existence or validity of the bible, God, Jesus, Moses, or a world-wide flood.  These things must stand on their own legs of evidence.

We are often told that Dinosaurs died out in 65 Million B.C. and that Man evolved in 2 Million B.C. but the same scientists that have insisted this sort of stuff have been unable to explain why Human and Dinosaur bones have been intermingled together with evidence of flooding.

There are no human fossils or artifacts found with dinosaurs, and there are no dinosaur fossils found with human fossils (except birds), and there is an approximately sixty-four-million-year gap in the fossil record when there are neither dinosaur nor human fossils. If humans and dinosaurs did coexist, traces of the two should be found in the same time and place.  At the very least, there should not be such a dramatic separation between them.  I'd like you to again cite your evidence.

Even *if* we found humans and dinosaurs "intermingled", it would still not be evidence against evolution – something else you show you don't understand.

Homo sapiens lived from about 250,000 years ago up to today.  The majority of the dinosaurs died out around 65 millions years ago.  The two never saw each other.  The Flintstones are not real!

No geologist claims that every little stratum requires thousands of years to be laid down.  The strata associated with "polystrate fossils" of trees and things invariably show evidence of relatively rapid deposition.  Please take the time to research current knowledge base, and quit relying on first century information.

Being unable to explain is due to a failure of admitting that there is a creator up in Heaven, as well as the fact that if you actually try to do math for once, there is no way the Earth is 5 Billion years old, even if if [sic] is older than 6,000 years.

This is just a mindless argument.  Once again: even if evolution, dinosaurs, and science could somehow be discredited, "The Bible" doesn't just win automatically.  The notions of a heaven, creator, etc. need to be show true by their own merits.

Not to mention the carbon dating used to age the earth at Billions of years has been proven unreliable, for instance Volcanic rock from Hawaii that is documented to be over 200 years old was recorded by carbon dating as Billions of years old. Now that is proof positive as to how unreliable it is to assume the Earth is 5 Billion years old.

Carbon dating isn't the only way to measure the age of things.

We know what we know because it didn't happen the way you assume.  No one person, or a team of people, decided on one day—after one try—that the age of X is Y.  What actually happens is that many, many different scientists use many different methods and arrive at the same conclusion.  This is why science works.

Imagine that I am looking at an apple.  I might say the apple is red.  Let's suppose I pass that apple around a room full of people.  If we asked them what color the apple is, we might get a number of different opinions (red, dark red, garnet).  The slightly weak analogy here is that every person is using their method (their eyes) to tell the color of the fruit.  And by taking the average conclusion of what everyone said, we might safely be able to call it a 'red' apple.  When it gets to you, you say the apple is orange because a book you read somewhere said that all apples are orange.

Also if you examine Dinosaur and Human bones being mixed in together, you can find proof that Dinosaurs and Humans did exist in the same time frame, and all over the world you find that loads of people that God wiped off the earth in Noah's flood had wound up crushed together with Dinosaurs.

I've already responded to this…please show this mountain of proof that dinosaurs and humans were all drowned together.

Ok we are told that Continents split apart and yes there is strong evidence that this had happened, I am betting all Continents were together when Noah was around and that time time [sic] God caused confusion at the Tower of Babel was the same time God decided to start splitting the Continents off.

I find it funny that you don't wish to argue against the evidence that the continents were, at one time, together.  There's just as much evidence for this as there is for evolution and the history of man and dinosaurs.  Why do you shut your eyes to one piece of evidence, and accept another piece of evidence (provided by the same branch of science even)?  This compartmentalization is one reason that religion is dangerous.

You're "betting" that Noah lived 250 million years ago, even though there is no evidence for human life at that time (and certainly not any bronze-age humans)?  I'll take that bet.

I'm betting that was also around the time that Rapunzel was letting her hair down for the Prince.  I think she was actually *in* the Tower of Babel, the Germans just changed it around a bit…

You may agree or disagree with what I am saying here, and whenever I disagree with the Evolutionists, I am told that I am closed minded, well I think the Evolutionists are the ones with the closed mind because they haven't really taken certain logics into consideration.

Oh boy, I feel a watchmaker argument coming.

For instance do cars, computers and houses build themselves? if you answered no then you are right on that one.

Hot damn, I was right!  Of course cars, computers, houses and watches don't just "make themselves".  How do we know that?  Because we *know* what it takes to make a car, or a house, or a painting.  Yes, it takes a builder to build a house.  Yes, it takes a painter to paint a painting.

The issue with your argument is that these things DO NOT occur naturally.  But rocks, trees, cats, and people *do* occur naturally.  The appearance of design is subjective, and we humans are well suited to see intent and obviously designed objects.

And once again, even if we overlook all the flaws in the "design argument", it still doesn't just mean "God did it!" by default.  That conclusion wouldn't follow; you could just as easily posit The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Zeus, or space aliens.

Back in December I was at the Detroit Science Center for an exhibit on the Human body, and well some people who have cited that exhibit as proof of Evolution but I cite it as proof of Creation, when[sic] I saw everything associated with the Human body inside that exhibit, I could tell clearly that there was no way we came by mere chance or mere accident, I can tell clearly that we had to have had an intellegent [sic]designer, and I believe that God is our intellegent [sic]designer.

Well, I'm convinced!  I'm glad the scientific community has someone like you, with such a keen eye for seeing "flaws".  I'm glad you could clearly tell that God made people, could you just maybe explain it to those evil scientists now?

No one is saying that humans came about by "mere chance" or accident; quite the opposite.  It took millions of years of evolution, something you really should read up on, and not just at one of your Christian websites.  Look for sites by the scientists who actually study the stuff.  Even if you don't, at least understand that evolution is basically small changes over time.  A lot of time.  Your 6000-year old world would never be enough time to squeeze all of man's evolutionary history into.  It's the Creationists who say that we just "popped" into existance one day.

Even if you want to accept evolution—and just say "God did it"—you still need to show how "God" did it, what this "God" even is, and how you know all of this.  You have done nothing but put forth hollow arugments and false attacks.

You still have not provided any demonstrable proofe as to why "all of Science was inspired by scripture", but I really didn't expect you to.  I would like to ask: what did you hope to gain by post this?

http://talkorigins.org

http://ironchariots.org

http://thesmalltownatheist.blogspot.com

-STA