Question what is worse:

I ask this question because recently I came upon an article that dealt with the mythology of Satanic messeges being hidden in music, specificly in Rock and Roll music. There was a woman whose comments led me to conclude she believed this and more. Then there was a fellow Gather, that compared Catholics taking communion to that of witches casting spells. From one extreme to the other. So I felt this need further discussion.

Why do you say "so-called" devoted christian?

both are bad, they are disrespectful and intolerant of others, the best is the middle of the road, a balanced view which takes into account differences in the way people view the world. black and white always fails to take into account the colors.
both extremes are alike i always thought

Smiley, I use the term as a ways to describe individuals that do not practice what they preach. To this day every time I go to church, I see individuals who routinely attack their fellow parishioners and then proceed to take Holy Communion. Almost everyday I see one after another preacher who is found to have feet of clay and doing the very same thing he preaches against each Sunday morning.

I agree with sigal shapira. Both are bad.

Equally bad.

Who really cares?

Obviously you do, since you took the time to contribute to the discussion.

I believe everyone has a right to their relgion, as long as they do not try to force it upon someone else.

Extremists are bad on all sides of the fence, what does it create really? Burned women, wars, hollocost... Nothing good comes from forcing your religous oppinions on anyone.

Mel, I agree with you 100 percent.

neither!
who has the right to say whos right and whos wrong?
not your nor I

That is the point, of my question. Religious zealots, whether Atheist, Christian, Muslim or "LOL" Scientologist, why is there a need to belittle an other's belief.

Thanks Juan that does wonders for my self esteem. ;)

I just read your comment about the article you read in reference to the santan and the church and I have only one thing (For now) to say about that, and that is that we all have the ability to have good or evil, god or satan, light or dark in us. WE are the ones that make the bad decisions and blame them on our bad forces (ie. evil, satan, dark). At the end fo the day looking into that mirror WE are the ones who made the decision to listen to the satantic music and then blow our heads off, or moleste the little boy or hate races, exctra. WE are the ones that are responsible. No matter how you look at it, or how you believe, For those who believe in God, he gave us free will, for those that believe in energy, you get what you give. At the end of the day we all have a choice and at the end of the day it is our free will that decides whether we do good or evil, love or hate, its OUR choice.

OK I am shutting up now!

Nicely said Mel.

Juan, I am confused about the atheist / pagan comparison. Pagans believe in a higher power, they have a devouted spiritual base which was incorporated by the early Christian church.

Atheists on the other hand believe there is no god, no higher power, no afterlife...this is it baby...what you see is what you get until you become worm food.

Why did you leave out the agnostics? Or is it hard to justify doing something evil in the name of "I don't know." :-)

Morgan, this is true.

LOL!!

Umm the agnostics have multiple personality disorder and they blame it on theirselves?

I AM KIDDING!!!!

Is either "bad" by definition?

How about rabid catmatism, Ivy?

LOL!!

Both scenarios are, in my opinion, pretty bad since they illustrate intolerance and suggest ignorance.

I firmly believe that we should all try not to force our opinions and beliefs on those that, for whatever reason, don't agree. We should try to remember that once upon a time Atheist, Christian or Pagan everyone has been persecuted and condemned because the Big Brother of the period wanted their own opinions/beliefs to be law. Why jump at shadows and feed into the same nonsense that always leads to some religious or political debacle.

Juan, I think we're all familiar with B. I would need to see what prompted A--a link or a literal quote--because I can't tell from your question what exactly was said.

I ask this question because recently I came upon an article that dealt with the mythology of Satanic messeges being hidden in music, specificly in Rock and Roll music. There was a woman whose comments led me to conclude she believed this and more. Then there was a fellow Gather, that compared Catholics taking communion to that of witches casting spells. From one extreme to the other. So I felt this need further discussion.

The thing is, it's possible to compare Catholicism to Wicca respectfully. If you respect the latter as a religion, comparing the Catholic mystery of transubstantiation to Wiccan practices doesn't have to be outrageous.

JIMMY PAGE AND "STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN"...... by Berf /. Here is the title of the article and discussion that prompted my question.

I agree with what Charles said. To the outsider, both Catholicism and Wicca are religions that share certain characteristics and are based on certain ideas. If someone compared Hinduism with Wicca, would you object? Shamanism with Shinto?

But again, I still don't know exactly what was said and how it was phrased.

Juan, could you give us a URL? It's hard to find articles on gather by title.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977233887&nav=Namespace

Here it is , I hope I did it right.

And what is it you're saying about that article? It seems just to cite other people's nuttiness.

I guess it just seemed funny that two opposing schools of thoughts were actually very similar in nature.

I would agree that both extremes are bad.

devote ??? *ROFL*

I mostly saw one kind of nuttiness. Where's the part about witches casting spells?

What two opposing schools of thought?

Atheists and Christians schools of thought,As for the comment that sparked my article I couldn' t find it. Perhaps it was removed. But to paraphase it

"Many religions use spells as part of ceremonies. Catholics also use spells but they call it they call it communion"

But I'm still confused. What part of your argument did you mean to illustrate with the Jimmy Page link above?

While "spell" might not be the most correct term, I don't see much problem with that argument, Juan. Magic "spells" are supposed to be supernatural; what Catholics [are expected to] believe happens in transubstantiation is certainly supernatural. It's a fair comparison, unless you believe that the "occult" is from the Devil, etc. But then you're hardly an impartial observer.

I agree with Anikó. To a disinterested observer, a belief in virgin birth doesn't seem any less superstitious than a belief in a goddess who conceives all; the assumption any less so than, say, reincarnation.

Seems to me Charles and Aniko have it right. Once you get to things that can't be verified in a material way you're in the realm of the supernatural.

Juan, I was going to answer "B" to your question right from the beginning, and here's why: to present the "hardcore atheist" and the "fundamentalist Christian" as two sides of the same coin is way off the mark.

Compare what the positions described as "extreme" on each side actually are:

Typical fundamentalist/dominionist Christian [I don't think I need to give examples]: The word of God is clear, and we must make everyone follow it. The government must be Christian, and our laws should be based on the Bible, or else God will send hurricanes, floods, diseases, etc. and destroy us all. The interpretation my religion/denomination gives is the only correct one; the others are ruled by the spirit of the Antichrist. In fact, everyone who doesn't agree with me is surely doing the work of the Devil.

Typical "militant" atheist [e.g. Richard Dawkins]: I think it is time to say that there's no good reason to believe that any religion is actually true. We need to stop showing automatic respect to any idea that comes in a religious garb, because, as much of history shows, it's important to keep religion out of science, government, and public policy. In fact, I think the world generally would be better off if there were less religion in it. A lot of good friends of mine, many of them religious, disagree, but I feel the time has come for me to say what I believe to be true.

Are they really cut from the same cloth?

charles, it was not the article itself, but the views behind some of the comments posted.

Finally, I would never ridicule or compare someone's beliefs to witchcraft, even if I personally had no beliefs myself. Also I would never hold myself superior and attack anyone who believes differently or does not have religious beliefs as minions of Satan. This is at the core of my question and reason I see as these two schools of thoughts as being more similar than they care to believe.

Lyla, I do agree with everyone being able to have own beliefs, but when they push those beliefs on others and also their actions are affecting others and how others feel, then that's when it becomes a problem.

I too feel that both extremes are bad! It took me a long time to find a good church, but I finally did. One thing I love about my pastor is that he never speaks badly about any other religion or people!
That was a tough question, but I couldn't pick either side!

Juan, I tried to illustrate how "the two extremes" differ. It's one thing to disagree with someone ridiculing a belief, and another not to see the huge discrepancy between what "extreme" means on one side (wanting to force your beliefs on other people) and on the other side (wanting to be able to challenge beliefs you disagree with, especially if people are trying to force them on you). The phrase "the two extremes" is misleading, suggesting the two sides represent a similar kind of danger. Even if some atheists ridicule others' beliefs, is that as dangerous as calling for or trying to institute a theocracy?

In saying you'd never compare someone's beliefs to witchcraft you buy into centuries of oppression of what was once (and is again) a legitimate set of religious beliefs. The term "witchcraft" was used to demonize what is now called Wicca and similar pagan belief systems.

It is a hard thing to balance, standing up for your own beliefs without ridiculing someone who thinks differently.

You can perhaps stand up for your beliefs without ridiculing someone else, but it's impossible to do so without offending, because there are some who will be offended by simply hearing a position that's contrary to theirs.

Both.

The question is more complex - you're trying to compare an extremist view of christianity with a possibly extremist view of atheists as well. That's not necessarily a fair assessment - asking which is worse means you have to make quite a few assumptions, which will be different for everyone.

"The tragic thing is that many radical followers regard miracles as god's deeds, but as soon as they find artistry and self expression, the whole world turns black and the sinners need to pay, or else be converted."

Burka, well said.

LOL!