Apparently. Listening to the media pundents after Hillary's upseting Obama in NH. Until the votes were counted, everyone agreed it would be a landslide victory for Obama.
But, the pundents didn't count on Hillary's tears effect on the femal population. They didn't think how those tears affected women who remembered her pain with Bill's indescretions. They didn't think that perhaps women vote from their hearts and emotions rather than their wisdom. At least that's what the spin is now--women are suckers for a few tears.
Are they right?
Sidebar--what's the correct use of effect/affect in the above instances?
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Comments: 99
Mary Mc. please keep me in your thoughts today as I have been up all night and I have some things I just HAVE to do today!! At least I got my daughter off on the bus!!
BTW--all those things that happened to Hillary were not without incident. None of it was imaginary.
Don't forget, there were negatives from the Clinton arena about Obama. When the tide turned against her because of the negative ads, she demurred.
I'm neither for or against Hillary--remember what Harry S said--if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
MEN are often suckers for tears... but not the abusive ones. Tears just make them angry.
Great article.
however, in Hillary's case I, for one, do not find it difficult at all. She used the emotions she was feeling from her exhaustion to well up tears for a strategic softening of her, otherwise, stoic demeanor. As I have said before on here, if she could go through all those interviews when Bill was caught cheating without a hint of a tear, it's kind of difficult to believe that any tears in a passing reference to the next generation and that she doesn't want to see us go backward as a nation, could be less than staged.
It's ok you can tell us that you were wrong. We are not gong to be mad. Come on, tell us the truth.
I think the media consistently underrate women. Women are far less likely to be swayed by another woman's tears than are men. (In my opinion.)
I think that for Hillary, showing some emotion that other women recognized as valid and what they would feel made her seem more honest and sincere and thus they wanted to vote for her.
Since we do not generally think of women as powerful decision makers and authority figures, it is difficult for a woman to seem fitted for that role. If she acts as a man would who filled that role she seems unfiminine. If she seems feminine, she seems unsuited for the role. It is unfair and foolish but that's what sex roles make us think.
Second, I don't think it was her showing vulnerablility as much as it was the media slamming her afterwards, along with the double team she received on Sunday night at the debates(not the first time, but the first time pundits also said it).
Any woman who has fought the "good ole boy" network knows the battlefied that Senator Clinton is fighting through and I feel that women saw and felt that and that caused her upswing with women, rather than just her showing emotion.
Although many 20-30 something women are so sure they are not going to face the glass ceiling as we 40-50+ women did, many will find out its still there, just waiting....
Many think she should have left Bill in the dust after what he did. Maybe they each had something to hide, so the agreed to disagree.
If she cries again, they'll not care at all.
Second, I don't think it was her showing vulnerablility as much as it was the media slamming her afterwards, along with the double team she received on Sunday night at the debates(not the first time, but the first time pundits also said it).
Any woman who has fought the "good ole boy" network knows the battlefied that Senator Clinton is fighting through and I feel that women saw and felt that and that caused her upswing with women, rather than just her showing emotion.
Although many 20-30 something women are so sure they are not going to face the glass ceiling as we 40-50+ women did, many will find out its still there, just waiting....
Kim J., Jan 10, 2008, 8:44am EST
What she said.
It isn't easy to forgive something like that, from either side, nor is it easy to stay, or to trust afterwards. There's always that thought in the back of your mind, waiting for the shoe to drop again.
It had no effect on me towards her either way.
Perhaps the glass ceiling is still firmly in place, after all ......... I figure that people do not have to like either of the Clintons .... but should recognize that this woman does seem to have the strength of character that this country needs ..... so what if you don't like her, personally? ......... she stuck out a horrible situation and held her head high, instead of kicking Bill to the curb and "dying of shame" ....... Isn't that the kind of person we want to be a leader? .... someone who has the guts to brazen it out and not be intimidated by what other people believe she "should" do? .....
more power to her ..... hope she get in office and whips this country back into shape ....
on a side note: WHY are women thought to be "soft" and not suited to a leadership position? .... traditionally, women are the disciplinarians in the household ... the ones who raise the children to be decent citizens and the ones who dish out the punishments as well as kiss the boo-boos to make things better ........ this is a role that we tend to grow into .... but one with enormous potential and "power" so to speak ..... definitely a leadership position .........
I find it hard to believe the men will allow Hilliary to become president, even though she has a lot of education and experience. Over many years. Only because she's a woman. I feel Obama has a better chance because he is man. Now is any of this fair?
Now as far as "affect and effect" whatever these people do will affect us forever.
Thank you for letting me say my piece.
10 4 u
As for Hillary, I'm a fan. Although some of her tactics cause pause for me, I think she is a strong, amazing woman who cares a great deal about this country and its future. I DO NOT think the tears were a tactic, and I applaud her for allowing her vulnerability to show. After 8 years of an unthinking, unfeeling leader, I think it's high time we had someone in office who at least appears a little more human. This isn't to say I don't like Obama. I've yet to make my decision on that front, but rest assured, the tears really don't sway me one way or another. I will make my final decision based on the issues, not on a few tears.
As for your last statement, Mary, I don't know if it's for any of us to say why she stayed with her husband. Many women stay with their husbands through infidelity because they love them and I don't think it's very fair to throw stones at Hillary just because she happens to be in the public eye. That incident happened more than 10 years ago and she did not even consider running for office until many years later. Not to mention, have you seen her resume? She does not need her husband for political gain - her education and experience make her more than qualified to advance in the political world on her own.
Mary, would you feel that way about a friend who decided to stay with a cheating husband? Why is it any different for the Clinton's? They are human beings too, and as stated above, there is no way for any of us to know why she stayed. You are entitled to your opinion, but I think it's unfair to judge someone on a personal issue like that, regardless of who they are.
I agree with you Kay about the primaries being on the same day however it would be hard for the candidates to be in each state.
BTW everyone, I still haven't selected a horse in this race nor have I decided which party I'm leaning towards, I'm not sure enough to decide right now. If you read my profile you will read that I am a middle of the road gal, seeing both sides. Giving a personal opinion on a past action is not part of deciding who should be elected.
Joe, I hope she stayed for your reason, I wish I could believe it but given how cute he is, it could very well be LOVE! When he winks and bites his lower lip, well that's too cute to leave, isn't it?
I'm just surprised how many people think that Hillary is talented enough to fake and orchestrate that kind of emotion. I'm a guy. I guess I fell for it.
She won the women's vote in NH because she's proved her heart's in the right place, she has brains, and she has backbone. And on top of that, she's proved to be a human being who gets tired and discouraged at times. Why is that not okay?
Hillary doesn't react the way I might, or cry when I wouldn't, or NOT cry when I might. So what? If I wanted a president who does everything I would do and nothing I wouldn't do, I'd run myself.
But as for the question presented here ... I had in mind (before reading the comments) that I thought what happened to her was genuine and natural for "a woman" ... because women are NOT men and therefore have not been so indoctrinated as men to never show a "weakness", to always "hide" emotions so they can "appear" (at least) to be "strong" ... for me it is a credit to her to have such a "moment" of being amongst other like thinkers, fellow women, that she could let her guard down and express some sincere emotion that was relevant to the moment and everything involved.
But after reading the comments here I was blown away by so many of the negative and nasty perceptions expressed by so many, mostly women ... which just seems to indicate to me just how effective our "press" has been and how "shallow" so many women really seem to be who seem to take certain lines of thought ... probably unwittingly influenced by the media AND their husbands.
So in short, I think it is rather sad that our world is so caught up in play-acting for appearance so much, that people cannot express real heartfelt emotion without being criticised as being too weak ... or worse yet, as just "play-acting" for effect ... this is such a "shallow" world and that too much "molded" into us by our "media" ... IMnsHO.
As far as her staying with hubby Bill after cheating on her. Some of you forget how many times he cheated on her and was caught. How many times she stayed with him. You can look at this a couple of different ways. I feel she had a motive for staying in this relationship, time after time he has made a fool of her, I think she did have the White House in mind for herself and he could help get her there. Or she didnt have the guts to go out on her own, she is to insecure to start over again in a single world and if the second is the right choice, she would be a very insecure person. You can be insecure and still be strong about your political views, because she still has Bill in her life. If Bill were not in her life, could she then be as politically strong? If she is insecure, this is a scary thought, to be letting her run the White House.
I wouldnt vote for her, as I think she says and goes along with what is popular to the American people at the time. She has a hard time making up her mind. She changes her mind to much and between her and Bill there is to much excess baggage in both their pasts.
If you want a change American people, then its time for a real change, look at who has the most family in the White House. Bush Sr, 8 years of Slick Willy, 8 years of GWB, now Hillary is trying to be another Clinton in the White House.
Whats wrong with this country? Cant we do any better? Isnt it enough that you have to be rich to become President, but now it seems you have to have family who was a president before you can become one too.
This is a good article and yes, I do feel the tears was the deciding factor.
Women are grasping for a rescue and Hillary is not it.
Mary, I think the reason for the high turnout and the gender gap was simple: People have had enough of Bush-league politics, and women in particular have a very high stake in the outcome. Think Supreme Court appointments, think SCHIP funding, things like that.
I don't believe the tears were staged, she is human like anyone else. So why can't she have a moment and it was only a split moment at that and then she collected herself.
I believe exhaustion could have had something to do with her tears. Hillary is a better woman then me; because I would have kicked Bill to the curb. So that in itself tells me something about her and her up bringing.
Now to your question; would I have voted for her because she cried "NO" I wouldn't but others may. I mean some people have told me they voted for someone just because they showed up in their town or that they got to shake their hand.
I also believe the media should stay out the opinion business and assumptions are flying like the snow is this time of year. There seems to be an over abundance of opinions like they need to tell the voters how they should vote because I guess we are stupid and don't know how to research or read. The media can move populations to do many things including who to vote for. Are you influence by the media?
And since we are on the subject tell me why our voter pamplets are filled with so much of what someone else wants and can't even be straight about what they really want. So we need to research the propositions as well.
I am not for Hillary for many reasons, though I believe she is a caring person and does want to make some positive changes for this country and the people; but get real the president can't do anything without the house and senate. A good president would go to the people so that the people would pressure both houses to get things done.
Blessings
Well, up to a point. The President can veto any law she thinks is wrong for the country. She can also issue executive orders. Remember when Bill Clinton took office? One of the first things he did was to get rid of the "gag rule" Bush I imposed on U.N. population control agencies.
(And of course one of the first things the Houseplant did was to put it back.)
After Iowa, she obviously felt a rejection by the voters, having come in third. If that made her sad it would be the human reaction. This race is going to be interesting because the Democrats have a wealth of good candidates and the Republicans have yet to come up with a decent candidate. Not that some of the Republican candidates are really all that bad, they don't offer the American people what the American people want and feel this country needs.
And Mary, the congress can overrule the veto but it takes a 2/3 majority to do so. The Democrats don't hat that kind of edge. In fact, it takes 60% just to bring a bill to a vote if the opposition wants to block it badly enough. This has tied the hands of the Democratic leadership. I don't understand why they have passed the continuing spending bills for the Iraq war as they could simply have not done so and brought this conflict to an end.
it is something that could turn against her.
Mary:
Along with being a liberal, Speaker Pelosi is a pragmatist. She knows darn well that if she uses her power the way the left wing (of which I am but one feather) wants her to, she'll lose the support of moderate Democrats and any chance of bipartisanship in the House.
It is not up to me to judge, nor is it up to me to decide what is "true" about a couple's marriage. Marriage is a mystery and no one can say for sure what goes on in another person's marriage.
Anya:
Well said, and I wish more people would adopt your attitude. Thanks for your post.
I was just asking if women will vote because of someone' tears? And again, if Imay repeat myself--the indications are that a great number of women voted that day who have never before voted in any primaries..
This has been a fascinating discussion. Howmuch we can tell about each other by these words written.
Thanks everyone--I am impressed.
after thinking about this for a while, I would like to believe that the "next" generation has come of age and begun to vote ..... One reason I would like to believe this, is because that would be much preferable to the apathy exhibited by our youth, for way too long ....
another reason, is because I was recently reminded by my nieces and nephews that THEY were looking at these candidates very carefully .... I was shocked to realize that I have 8 nephews and 5 nieces who will be voting for the first time, in a presidential election ..... where DOES the time go? .... I must have been looking the other way when they suddenly grew up and became young adults ....
each of the kids have their own opinions and each one is a new voter ... I hope they all continue to take such an interest in politics and exercise their rights to vote in the future ..... right now, they are feeling the unrest in this country and feel the need for a change .....
This has been a great discussion. I'm glad to see so many people joined i.
That is so sad that women are so emotional and base their decisions according to their emotional state. Now I know someone is gonna jump up and say "You don't know what you are talking about. I don't do that." Well then you are one of the exceptions, and you are in the minority.
No, I don't have any proof of what I have said above. It is simply my opinion and I'm stickin by it.
Wife: Bawling her eyes out, tears streaming down her face.
Husband: Stop the crying, it's no big deal.
Wife: I'M NOT CRYING, leave me alone.