No, Iran is not up to no good, just keep believing that

Those "some" to which you refer need to take their heads out of the Middle East sands and see the real world and not the mirage that they've come to accept as reality. They scare me sometimes MoD.

I think it's wise to be wary of Iran's activities in the political arena and take the proper precautions/safeguards.

Thanks for a great article!

Iran is trying to intimidate the US. but there are still some on here who will blame it on the US. I saw the videos of this one.
I think the US would have been justified to blow them up, we dont want another USS Cole disaster. THis is not the first time that the Iranians have done this either. THey keep getting more and more aggresive.

Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?

Anyone that believes that Iran is trying to intimidate or entice a war with the US has truly been gulping the Kool-Aid for far too long. We all need to wake up and realize that, once again, we're being played like violins. Same song, different dance. Wake up, people.

Right Clark. What were we doing with a fleet in the gulf in the first place? Remember Pearl Harbor? Our fleet was ORDERD into Pearl. Our Admiral of the fleet refused and was replaced with one that did put the fleet in that hole. The Gulf there, with the narrow Strait of Hormuz is amazeningly similar to the situation at Pearl.

About that Admmiral that refused. My ex father-in-law was the signalman on the flag ship. He told me about it.

Unlike the gulf of Tonkin the US is not claiming we were attacked, just that these Iranian boats were acting suspiciously.

Clark the fact is this happened. Hide you head in the sand if you want, it does not change the truth

"What were we doing with a fleet in the gulf in the first place? "

Exactly.




"Unlike the gulf of Tonkin the US is not claiming we were attacked, just that these Iranian boats were acting suspiciously. "

It's part of the deception. Drip, drip, drip. Just like with the leadup to the illegal invasion of Iraq, the administration kept making false claims, and built to a crescendo until they has enough people fooled into going along with the unnecessary, costly occupation.

For quite some time now, this administration has been attempting to bring Iran into confrontation, so that they'd have their justification for yet another pointless, stupid, costly war.

First, there were the reports that US spec ops were operating inside Iran, to target key sites and to attempt to coerice terrorist groups to stir up trouble. Then, we saw carrier fleets head into the Gulf in a clear move of provocation. Then, we started getting reports from "unnamed white house sources" that Iran was supplying weapons and troops to attack our soldiers in Iraq. Of course, this was NEVER proven, but, as we learned with Iraq, proof isn't required in order to drag a nation to war.

Iran has no motivation to openly draw us into conflict. They're not idiots. It would serve them absolutely no purpose whatsoever to do so. Do not allow yourself to become fooled again. Use your heads. It is this administration that seeks to draw Iran into conflict, not the other way around.

And, I'll remind readers once again, that this was written by the PNAC neocons years before 9/11. Their goal was to re-shape the middle east and create an American empire, in order to dominate the region's oil resources. The openly stated goal was to occupy Iraq, Iran, Syria, and even Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps, had more people paid attention to what these neocons had written as their goals BEFORE the illegal invasion of Iraq, it never would've happened. I TRIED to tell people what the filthy bastards were up to, but they never listened. To them, it was all about 9/11 and al Qaeda, even though there were no known links between Iraq and either.

This nonsense with Iran is more of the same. Pay attention. You're being used again.

"Clark the fact is this happened. Hide you head in the sand if you want, it does not change the truth "

Says who? The white house? The white house-controlled dept. of defense? Who's got their head buried somewhere? Use your head and actually THINK about this for a moment. Iran gains NOTHING by provoking anything with us, yet could lose EVERYTHING in doing so. Does it make ANY sense for them to do so? Of course not.

Again, it is NOT Iran that is attempting to provoke conflict here. It is the US.

I would like to know where this "news" came from, if it is Washington it is hard to believe anything they say, they would say anything to start another war.

Are the Iranians just stupid? They are playing a very dangerous game. Did you see the video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2196652413772387670&q=iranian+boats++US+navy&total
=45&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

The Iranians got lucky that their boats were not completly destroyed. If they go too far it will be very bad -- for them. The next time the Iranians pull any crap like this, we should sink their entire fleet. Destroy the ships that threaten us, then destroy everything in their ports. That will teach them not to screw with us.

Clark-

No Iran has always been aiming for conflict you just dont like the fact that some have the balls to call them out on it. You are one from the run and hide crowd. It did happen

"Did you see the video? "

Boy, that's mighty convincing, isn't it? Almost as impressive as the grainy, almost inaudible videos of a suddenly younger, rejuvinated "Osama" that have been paraded around. Yep, no question about it...those are very clearly Iranian speedboats. I can tell by the make/model, as well as the markings on them.

Here's a clue for you: The US military and the US government do not release military or intelligence video without there being a very clear intent in doing so. Ask yourself what the intent of releasing this video, which I think you can even agree is FAR from conclusive? Given that we already know that our government is fully capable of lying us into military conflict, why would anyone choose to fall for this yet again?




"No Iran has always been aiming for conflict"

Why? What possible gain could they hope to have by expressing a desire for obliteration? And, what proof do you have of this?




"You are one from the run and hide crowd."

Stop being such a child.



"It did happen "

Prove it. It is infinitely more believable that this was yet another fraudulent propaganda piece by this dishonest, corrupt, warmongering white house than to believe that it was an act of aggression by the Iranian government. Get real for a change.

Btw, the Iranian government has officially denied this today. Now it's one foolish liar's word against another's.

Clark, are you saying you believe the Iranian government, the same government that denies the Holocaust, denies the existance of homosexuals in its country, supports terrorism, and has called for the extermination of Israel, over the US Military? Wow. You have hit new lows. How can you call yourself an American. Move to Iran if you love and trust them so much.

Publius, you said, "No Iran has always been aiming for conflict..." Besides the unverified, I repeat, unverified, reports of some in Iran supplying insurgents in Iraq with EID's, what do you have to support this assumption? It is a damning statement, so it had better be supported with clear evidence.

Or, is it the weapons program they abandoned four years ago? Back that claim up, man.

Let me remind you, the CIA world fact book ranks the Iranian military as third rate... pretty scary, huh?

Ty phoon, how about thinking for yourself for a change. It is liberating.

The "denying the Holocaust" claim is more about criticizing Israel for repeatedly falling back on that terrible event to justify its behavior towards its neighbors. It is not a universal belief held by Iranians, especially the educated, west-leaning ones.

Ahmadinejad did say there were no homosexuals... I'll give you that one. Pretty weak, though. The South African president has for years denied the existance of HIV/AIDS.

The "extermination of Israel" is another red herring. You translate Farsi pretty good now, do ya? He has also in several foreign speeches and appearances also advocated a one state solution in Palestine, where all of the inhabitants, Israeli and Palestinian, vote for a government. Repeating the smear from the O'Reilly's, or Limbaugh's of this world doesn't say much.

Supports terrorism... when was the last time a verifiable Iranian terrorist event killed a US citizen? I don't accept unverified accounts coming out of Iraq. That is a war zone, and the reports are unverified.

Oh yeah, I wonder why Admiral Fallon, Centcom commander balked at sending a third carrier group into the Gulf of Hormuz. He is quoted in Asia Times, sometime ago, as saying, starting a war with Iran "will not happen on my watch." He said further he and some others were trying to "put the crazies back in the box..." and he wasn't talking about the crazies in Iran's government.

For a more nuanced account, including the possibility, oh god not that, of a miscommunication:

http://icga.blogspot.com/2008/01/irans-unduly-provocative-act-against-us.html

"Clark, are you saying you believe the Iranian government, the same government that denies the Holocaust, denies the existance of homosexuals in its country, supports terrorism, and has called for the extermination of Israel, over the US Military?"

Nice word twisting attempt! Impressive! Actually, those of us who actually have functioning brains can undoubtedly see that I said nothing of the sort, but rather, that NEITHER government is credible. We already know that BOTH governments have a propensity for lying in order to propagandize. Why would you feel that the US government is any more credible than Iran's at this point? Seems to me that the reason we're currently involved in an endless, unwinnable debacle of an occupation in Iraq is BECAUSE our government LIED to us.

All you have to do, in order to sort this story out and make sense of it, is ask yourself one simple question: Who stands to gain more from provoking a war between the US and Iran? The fraudulent, criminal, lying, warmongering Bush administration, or the fraudulent, criminal, lying Imadinnerjacket administration? Do you REALLY HONESTLY believe that Iran WANTS a war with Iran? Or, is it REALLY more plausible, given what we already know about this lying, warmonginer white house and their neocon masters, that it is the US that is hankering for war with Iran?

Think, for a change. Stop being such a tool.

You know MDP, that some people like Clark, like to believe that "The enemy of my Country, is my friend". You will never make a valid point to him, nor his ilk, because they will refuse to face the facts, and just look at their believed fantacy.
Ever since the Ayatollah Khomeini took the head of that country, they have been a thron in the world's side. They have increased support to terror groups, violence around the world, and even murders of their own people. But these people will refuse to believe any of that, anything but that these are good friendly people.

Ahh, yeah. I'd rather have a rattlesnake in bed with me, than that country as an ally.

Meanwhile, it appears as though the US government is backing off a bit on its previous claims. Go figure, huh?

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4115702&page=2

Pay attention, people. SOMEBODY wants another war before he's finally jettisoned out of the white house, and he's relying on you being just as ignorant, blind, and filled with irrational fear and hatred as you were before.

To be honest, we should have gone in during Carter's reign, and leveled Iran then. We could have rebuilt it as so not to have as much of the problems now as we do today from that part of the world. But Carter was such a wimp, I was actually surprised he had the balls to have gone against the Congress and tried that quick under the radar rescue as he did. If congress had been for the country then, instead of for their wallets, we would have gone in with a full force and got those people out, then blasted the hell out of that dust pit.

Well ... we do have a huge fleet of warships practically within sight of sunbathers on the beaches of the Persian Gulf ... that is, if there were any sunbathers that have not been executed left in Iran.

Face it, we are going to keep pushing Iran until they break or we have to attack them.

The Democrats should realize this, and instead of laying themselves open for a complete ass-kicking in the upcoming election they ... the whole party ... needs to come up with some line that they all can reasonably tow that does not make them look like wimps or flip-floppers to the swing voters.

The Middle East threat is a serious and deadly one. from Saudi Arabian Wahabi ... to the Iranian alliance with Russia and nucleo-fied, we are not going to be able to go home and forget all about it no matter who is elected.

Are we Americans perfect ... hardly ... are we a-holes sometimes ... surely. Are you fun, nice, optimistic people who want to the world free though ... you bet and we are serious about it and defending the West too.

"But Carter was such a wimp"

I guess Rancid Ronnie was too, then. As I recall, he had 8 years to do just what you prescribed, but chose instead to embrace and arm them.




"Face it, we are going to keep pushing Iran until they break or we have to attack them."

Precisely my point, although I seriously doubt that Iran is going to "break." They're not as stupid as some seem to think they are.

Clark ... what does stupid mean in this context, if you don't mind my asking and you can keep your answer to readable length? I'll just say, lots of very evil entities are very clever, ala the Republican strategists. Am I reading sympathy for the Iranian government in your words?

Some seem to be under the impression that Iran wants to commit suicide, by provoking the US into military action. I suggest that they're not nearly stupid enough to do so.



"Am I reading sympathy for the Iranian government in your words? "

No, you're reading distrust for anything that this white house utters, especially with regard to anything having to do with foreign policy, and in particular having to do with the middle east. I know what these PNAC neocons published several years ago, so I know what their vision for that region is.

First, I don't know of anyone who thinks Iran wants to commit suicide ... anyone. Maybe you are making a unnecessary argument. Who?

In order to be clear about this one has to separate out Iran from the White House. Iran started its path of anti-American crimes, and ignoring world opinion long before this White House was in place or there was a thing called PNAC.

Clark, you should know from our previous "debates" that I never supported Reagan either. Reagan was a 2bit actor acting as a 2bit President.

" First, I don't know of anyone who thinks Iran wants to commit suicide"

First, many seem to think that Iran wants to commit suicide, because they're willing to believe the laughably absurd notion that Iran is provoking the US military into battle. Hello.





"In order to be clear about this one has to separate out Iran from the White House. "

Someone has apparently forgotten how Iran gathered their nuclear and military might over the past decades.






"Reagan was a 2bit actor acting as a 2bit President."

Ok. So, why would you choose to single out Carter to chastise for not handling Iran, when Carter handed off the problem to Rancid Ronnie, who quickly gathered his Booshies to lavish nuclear technology and military aid to them?

Clark, you have been writing too much and not paying attention.

Islam, from recent experience with super-powers believes that they will survive and prevail in any war. We can bomb them and inflict losses, but we cannot get anything we want from a way with Iran ... that is my belief of what their belief is.

Listen to Osama bin Laden, it is now deep in the mythology of Islam that they can overcome with the help of Allah. Far from suicide.

"Clark, you have been writing too much and not paying attention."

You're a clown. I pay more attention in 5 minutes than you do all month.




"Islam, from recent experience with super-powers believes that they will survive and prevail in any war. We can bomb them and inflict losses, but we cannot get anything we want from a way with Iran ... that is my belief of what their belief is."

You're wrong. They may think that Islam will prevail in the long term, but anyone who's seen what we've done to Afghanistan and Iraq would be utter fools to want to bring that upon themselves. Iran would be destroyed, and they know it.




"Listen to Osama bin Laden, it is now deep in the mythology of Islam that they can overcome with the help of Allah. Far from suicide"

"Listen to Osama?" Since when did you speak his tongue? And, what proof do you have that he's even alive? Fuzzy, out-of-focus videos in which a man who's much younger than Osama would be, and with different facial features speaks in garbled, illegible, indecieferable sentences? Please. Are you SERIOUSLY swallowing this tripe?

Looks now like the Pentagon is completely backing off the entire premise that anything "threatening" occured. But of course Bush still feels the need to talk tough.

I would love to see George AWOL Bush and Dick Five-Deferment Cheney and the rest of the chickenhawk neocon bunch for once actually volunteer to back up their tough talk with their own lives on the line.

I'd just rather see them in jail.

Clark, what can I say, the whole universe is a giant conspiracy and you are the only one who understands it all.