by Vivian A.
Member since:
July 18, 2007

Wombats XCII- Evolution

January 07, 2008 04:06 PM EST
views: 228 | rating: 10/10 (17 votes) | comments: 381

Evolution- characters and plot

 

Unless you are Mozart, there are revisions to your work. Noweither you're a plotter and have a good idea where you're going OR you're apantser fly out on the trapeze. The questions is do you find your charactersevolving differently than you expected? Perhaps of their own accord, and how doyou reel them back in? Or don't you?

 

Ditto the plot. Have you ever gone to write an idea and havethe ending turn out dramatically different than you were expecting?

 

Something to chew on besides Mark.

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Comments: 381

Catherine M. Jan 7, 2008, 4:07pm EST
Hee. Is this is? The new thread?

Cathy
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 4:11pm EST
Darn! Cathy beat me to it!
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:12pm EST
Yeppers! Dang you are one fast hombre!
Catherine M. Jan 7, 2008, 4:13pm EST
That should read 'Is this it?' But what the heck. As to the questions:

I'm a major rewriter - that's where I derive most of my joy in writing. Do my characters evolve? Yes, very much so. In the book I'm working on now, a character who was supposed to die and get out of the way hijacked the whole story, became my personal favorite of all the characters I've ever dreamed up, and developed into the protagonist who will drive two more books, if I can get myself together enough to write them.

My endings - huh. Total evolution - I don't know how the book's going to end until I write it. I definitely don't work from an outline!

Cathy
Catherine M. Jan 7, 2008, 4:13pm EST
Hee. Not only did I beat Judi - I got here before our hostess.

Thanks for having us, by the way, Vivian.

Cathy
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 4:14pm EST
My endings don't change, but I don't plan the path so I'm often surprised by where we go on the journey.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:14pm EST
My apologies I did it in approx. 8 minutes- editing now :)

I am a pantser as well. No clue what happens at the end until the film reel starts flipping around and around at the end.

Nice try Judi, but Cathy was circling to pounce apparently.
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 4:15pm EST
Great questions, Viv. I'm a pantser, but I usually start with an idea of where it's going or the black moment. I definitely have the inciting incident - it brings me into the story enough to want to write it, so hopefully it will work with readers.

Have the charactrs or plot changed? You bet ya! I had an entirely different ending to IOHH before the contest announcement went up. While I was polishing and editing, the ending didn't work for me. So I changed it. I'm much happier with it now.

I like not being a plotter b/c I like listening to the characters. I was just saying on Beth's Whoa No, WoNo article that one of my characters (a talking cat. Don't ask.) got very chatty in my dreams last night. I woke up with a bunch of "outtakes" from scenes he's going to be in. I jotted them down as quickly as I could today so they don't get lost. The fun is going to be in weaving them together. And, of course, listening to his attitude. And Ann? THe cat says, babe. Shades of Jack...
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 4:16pm EST
Oh, and Cathy made me think of a major change I did make. Was planning one character to be the buddy in my first novel and then give him the lead in the second in the series. But another guy became more important and he got the second book. Fun when those changes happen and you can follow them into something good.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 4:16pm EST
Still working all this out, but definately, in the original plotline, one of the characters was supposed to die, as a motivating force to others. But I can't seem to kill her off, and now, I'm not sure I should. Guess I'll have to finish writing the stupid thing to see how it comes out (yes, I'm in the center of the WIP, and at this point it's not all that much fun, and has devolved into being called "that stupid-what-was-I-thinking-novel").
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:22pm EST
Am I the only one who keeps thinking Beth is Pat due to the shiny, shiny, sparkles?

Stay strong Pat, like rehab this is one of the seven steps of writing- (John better not steal this idea)

Trepidation
Mania
Fortitude
Disgust
Despair
Exhile
Reconciliation
Copyright on the steps ;)

You CAN do it. I want to read it so get cracking Lady! Damn, I need entertainment between term paper concepts. I love Goths, keep going!
Dana F. Jan 7, 2008, 4:22pm EST
Hi, Vivian! Good question and an easy one for me to answer. I have a hell of a time outlining/plotting, but try to at least have a skeleton. My characters are very fractious and in my murder mystery, the murderer as originally planned refused to be guilty. So I had to change the villain of the piece to someone else and much rewriting was necessary. I think, though, it made it more difficult for readers to guess who the killer was.

Dang. I missed the masquerade. We had no power in Humboldt and what internet connection we had via an inverter hooked up to my car was so slow, it wasn't worth going on line. Feh!
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 4:23pm EST
Pat, don't let the middle get you down! Add something odd or quirky or evil, something to pull you into the story. That will get you past the mid-point blues.
Catherine M. Jan 7, 2008, 4:24pm EST
Hi, Beth. I saw your good wishes at the end of the last thread - thank you. My holidays were a lot of fun, although I had so much company that I started taking walks in the rain just to get a little alone-time. I hope your holidays were fine as well.

I checked out the Masquerade threads - wish I hadn't missed it. We had Ayn Rand, Scarlett O'Hanssen, Sean Connery calling himself Franco, and quotations from Leviticus all on the same thread! Hysterical! If I'd been here, I'd have shown up as Oprah, named Opera...for my diva-like personality...

My youngest daughter (the one who put in a surprise appearance one day last month) has been reading various writing articles on Gather. She says this place is a treasure trove. I said it is indeed, but be careful what you believe about active and passive voice. (Heh. Am I obsessed, or what?)

Cathy
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 4:24pm EST
Vivian, that was my bribe to Lady Elena at the masquerade, just so I could drop in as my poor costume-less self. Give me a second and I'll remove the shiny baubles...
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:27pm EST
Jules, the article question was offered as an alternative for those who didn't feel the hunger to keep nipping at Mark. I know you all can handle it, but others might need further diversions.

Wombats are not for the faint of heart. When the storm rolls in their nothing like a good ruckus every once and awhile.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:28pm EST
Not on my account Beth- Pat can't claim all glittery and shiny baubles with this many women roaming the Wombat lair.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 4:28pm EST
Yes, I'm going to steal Beth's icon the instant her back is turned. I need to work on a new one anyway, I'm getting bored with this one.

It's all good Beth. I'm about to shove the heroine down some stairs, poison a maid, and find dead birds. I just need to get all the players in position, and it's that icky stage managing that's killing me. And I can't do what Judi does and just put in a comment that says "something happens here" and move on. I'm such a linear thinker!
G. M. Lupo Jan 7, 2008, 4:29pm EST
From last thread:

...do you know Where you arrived?

No, but I'm definitely there.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:30pm EST
Dana bummer on the outage. Missed you, but there is something brewing for the future.
G. M. Lupo Jan 7, 2008, 4:37pm EST
My characters definitely evolve. In my novel that no one's ever going to read, I started with a few scenes I had bouncing around in my head for at least twenty years. Originally the character who became the lead character started out as secondary then took on a life of her own. A couple of characters I'd originally planned as the leads moved a bit into the background. There are maybe three or four scenes at the start of the book that were exactly what I imagined from back when I conceived the work.

Originally I planned it as a television show or movie, so I saw and heard the characters as they went about their business, which made it easier for me to tell their stories. In the end it became a movie played out in my head and I just watched and wrote.
G. M. Lupo Jan 7, 2008, 4:38pm EST
I am here, Julie. And thanks to everyone for the points.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 4:40pm EST
NOOO Beth!! I looove those baubles!!
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 4:42pm EST
Vivian? Something's brewing? Really? What? (wombats are also inquisitive little creatures.).
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 4:47pm EST
I thought we were going to plot a murder mystery or everyone creates a room mansion and play through it. That was no one gets hostessing or hosting all night? Did I make this up in my brain or was there chatter?

A Wombat Simcity or Simworld, n'est ce pas?
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 4:47pm EST
Too late, Pat. But you can borrow them any time.

Cathy, the holidays were on the quiet side, but that's okay. Lots of other stuff going on.

Okay, printing my behemoth novel--or at least several hundred pages of it--so I can finally begin my WoNo. Judi's smokin' up the pages, but if anyone here hasn't started (Lisa) and still wants to (Lisa), please know that the month is barely begun. We can produce a lot of words in less than 31 days.

Seriously, if you've never written a novel or want to try something new, this is a great time to try. We'll encourage you and pull you and push you and whatever else you need. There's a true joy in getting those scenes down and developing characters that have only lived in your head.

A true rush at times.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 4:48pm EST
I'm trying on the WoNo thing, really. I've written made 50 or 60 whole words today!
Dana F. Jan 7, 2008, 5:00pm EST
Excellent, Vivian! The power outage, other than the inconvenience of no 'net, was fun. We had a fireplace (with a fire in it) and fresh crab. I was content. And we could watch movies on my MacBook - saw 300, STARDUST and THE SIMPSONS MOVIE. And I do love rain.

Pat, I have the same trouble 'bookmarking' something and moving on. Linear thinking is kind of a pain in the butt, ain't it? But such fun you have coming up! Pushing people down stairs, poisoning 'em... Good times!
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 5:05pm EST
Dana, I do love the macabre people here! Only other writers would understand that last sentence of yours, without wanting to lock you up!
Mark Y. Jan 7, 2008, 5:06pm EST
Well geez can't ignore a room where I'm the topic, or part of it. Often people in groups never remember who fired the first shot only the response, if it's creative enough. Everyone would be wise to get this sort of thing into the novel. My infraction was a metaphor for a gang bang, sans any names. Ears burned and from the looks of it in a very embarassing way.
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 5:06pm EST
Dana, I'm laughing at your definition of good times. But as a novelist, those are the good times, aren't they? So many things we can try.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 5:24pm EST
I have trouble killing people off. I killed the main character and then felt bad because I missed her. I brought her back reading the book she was in, so she didn't really die in the end.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 5:27pm EST
Pat? Beth? Did I make up the idea or are we contemplating for a later month the murder/ or revolving room ball?

Mark nice to see you again. Dusted off just fine from the looks of it.
G. M. Lupo Jan 7, 2008, 5:29pm EST
Placeholder for when I get home.
Wendy C. Jan 7, 2008, 5:29pm EST
Bookmark.. Cathy! so glad to see you back. Dana, you too and Vivian of course. ; 0 )
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 5:30pm EST
Maybe we could have a who-done-it party.
Dana F. Jan 7, 2008, 5:35pm EST
hee hee...very true, both Pat and Beth! I've often thought of the trouble some writers could get into based on their google history! I have a google alert for 'murder for hire' and so far it hasn't pulled up anything on my book, just things about..well... murder for hire news articles. And ask your queen about the stuff SHE'S had to research!
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 5:37pm EST
I don't know how this happened, maybe it just normal but I keep getting e-mails from POD publishers wanting me to publish my book with them. Do they get our names from Gather? I have no clue how they even know I wrote a manuscript. I've been ignoring them because I don't want to force publish anything. Dorrance and some of their imprints are the worst offenders filling my mailbox.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 5:39pm EST
We could sort of do it like Dungeons and Dragons, except everyone is responsible for a room. The "Master" would be responsible for creating the corpse and assigning a guilty party- easily done with dice.

If interested all attendees would create a room and the party would move through it with some random prescribed actions occurring to characters whom do a defined action in a room. Let me know. Can ya tell I played D&D?
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 5:41pm EST
Sorry Vivian, we must have crossed posts. I didn't see yours when I mentioned a who-done-it party. Like minds I guess.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 5:47pm EST
I have 50.000 words finished but I don't have an end. I can never figure out how to end a story. It's killing me.
Stephen Prosapio Jan 7, 2008, 5:57pm EST
Goooooodbye Shaaaaaaaaaane!
LOL!

I love when there are plot twists and turns. I am amazed that people actually CAN come up with a full plot/story idea all at once.

I saw a writer (Tracy Hickman) do it at the LaJolla Writer's Conference based on an idea shared with him from a lady in the group. He acted as though he had a migraine and then explained that the idea came to him all at once, fully hatched so to speak. He quickly outlined it to her and we were all amazed. Very cool.

Mine come much as Judi described..bits and pieces that need to be united/modified/changed. I do need to keep moving foward to write them out though because then more ideas come.

As for my WIP, unlike DW, I know exactly how I want the story to begin and the characters involved, however the actual plot/conflicts are still being drawn mentally.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:02pm EST
I have tons of editing to do and that's the hardest part for me, except for the endings. I think I'm in big trouble. I'll never have this finished in time for WoMo-No. Oh what the heck, what ever it's called.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:03pm EST
WoNo Wri Mo.
John Philipp Jan 7, 2008, 6:11pm EST
I thank those wombats who dropped in on my first day on the job as Member Editor for Writing Essentials-Humor Monday (I'm thinking of having business cards printed up).

For those who didn't, drop by for a chuckle, Not that I'm taking names or anything ...

Cataracts be gone
John Philipp Jan 7, 2008, 6:12pm EST
Oh, I forgot. Please.
Jamie C. Jan 7, 2008, 6:14pm EST
Depends on the manuscript for me. I usually have a vague outline, and I do mean vague. 5 or 6 plot points/twist. Kinda like I start with a bunch of scattered dots and the writing comes in and connects them together. I usually know the end when I begin. Sometimes the end changes before I get there though. I have outlined a novel in great detail. Writing that way worked too, so yeah, depends on the novel.

Characters are living people to me, so I can't design them ahead of time. That doesn't work at all. They tell me who they are, I don't try to change it. In the rewrites I do flesh them out a bit, or change certain characteristics, but generally they arrive fully formed. I had what was supposed to have been a secondary character take over 500,000 words of manuscript and counting. And he is, to this day, my favorite character ever.

Oh, and hi, everyone.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 6:14pm EST
My WIP started with a kernal of an idea from Judi, and the ending is full blown in my head. It's just getting them through this stuff in the middle. I mean, I know all the events I want to have happen, it's just getting them written down. I don't type fast enough, and I suck at dialogue. If I could do the entire thing in narrative, I'd be fine.

Beth, never played D&D. I'd need detailed instructions.
Jamie C. Jan 7, 2008, 6:14pm EST
On my way, John. Thanks for link.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 6:16pm EST
Sorry, that would be Vivian, I never played D&D. Give me a break. I just woke up from my nap and I'm still a bit fuzzy.

Juen, I think editing is the part everyone hates. I'm not looking forward to it, but I've gotten lots of great feedback on my bits and pieces, so at least I'll know where to start.
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:18pm EST
Okay, so I'm back after building a sarcophagus.
Dana F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:18pm EST
The link didn't take me to anything you did, John...I KNOW you're taking names!
Dana F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:21pm EST
I like the who-dunnit/D&D idea...
Lance Trueheart Jan 7, 2008, 6:21pm EST
Wow! What a night I must have had. I went out clubbing with some buds and we had a good deal to drink. Somewhere along the line I must have blanked out because the next thing I know I'm waking up in a king-sized bed with about six other people and we're not wearing nothing. I went around the room and managed to retrieve most of what I had on the night before and beat a hasty retreat before anyone else woke up. I didn't have a ride so I wandered around the streets until I figured out where I was. So I phoned up an old girlfriend I had in the area to see if she could pick me up. She said she could and about twenty minutes later, we're in her Ford Fiesta heading back to her place.

Turns out the evening was only getting started. More later.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 6:21pm EST
OK, interrupting the current thread, for just one moment, and I do hope Jeff sees this. I have a pal who lurks on occassion, and follows my comments. She lives in the Tribeca area of NY city, and caught the tail end of the last thread. She sent me the following email just now, along with her best regards to Jeff:

"I've seen Fire Bell in the Night in a Borders store here. --Since I was in support-the-writers mode, I just called all five Manhattan stores and asked if for it. Four had it on their shelves, One is currently sold out- but it's on re-order, coming in next week. I also had the last store's reference desk check their store link and the associate told me it's on the shelves in all five NYC boroughs, as well as in every Borders in the surrounding suburbs... As if I'd go to the burbs!"

Sorry Lisa, but since I'm in support-the-writers mode as well, I just had to post this!
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:23pm EST
Hi Jamie.

Pat, I'm having major POV problems. I thought I had it figured out but I keep going back to the same ol, same ol. I'ts driving me nuts.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:24pm EST
Dana, I had the same problem with John's link.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:25pm EST
I think Lance Dunit.
Doug M. Jan 7, 2008, 6:26pm EST
I'm a painter, but I loved reading your conversation. It confirms for me that the process is similar for all media. I certainly recognize the ups and downs you describe... especially as expressed by Vivian's "Seven Steps"! Thanks for the good time.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 6:28pm EST
Pat you don't need to know how to play D&D to do the random room game. Just want to know if people are interested in creating a share environment that the "play" would move through.

See June must have the murder mystery in mind too. So I did not make it up! Maybe we're just mentally connected :)

Lance you stud puppy! Enigma was very interested in you, but alas you were busy.

Stephen, I'm with you on the writing process. I have a feed bases to hit, but the details and paths between are wide open. Often it goes off into another field that I never imagines though.

John- nice job with Humor Monday! It's true, Aunt Muriel takes cans of chicken on around the world cruises so she doesn't have to eat those long-legged chickens in India!
Jamie C. Jan 7, 2008, 6:29pm EST
I went to John's namespace to find it. His thread link to me to "search for link"s.

Hi, Doug! Welcome to the convo.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 6:29pm EST
Hi and thanks Doug!
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:30pm EST
Hi Doug. Nice to meet you and I hope you stop by again.
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 6:31pm EST
June, everyone struggles with POV. Here's some advice I was given. Put yourself in that character's head, and only report on the things that person can personally see, feel, think, know. It's like being behind a movie camera. You can't report on things the camera doesn't see. and you can't know what someone else is thinking. It takes practice, and I'm betting I'll have a lot of that kind of cleanup to do when I get to editing!
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 6:31pm EST
I have pasta sauce to make, be back in a jiffy.

Oh, and packing. I'll zoom in and out.

Chatter amongst yourselves and raid the wine cabinet for whatever you desire. I just had a nice Washington Riesling- shout out to our NW ladies!
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 6:33pm EST
Hi Doug! Artists of all stripes are welcome here. We all struggle with the act of creation. Do painters "edit" their works, by going back and fixing things in them?
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:37pm EST
June, here's something that might help with POV:

POV - What is it and how do I get one?
Dana F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:40pm EST
Ooh, time to go home! I have a new computer and am hoping my online access will be consistant at home now. So...see y'all later!
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:42pm EST
Thank you Pat, it's much clearer to me now. I'll try staying in camera mode. I think that might work perfectly for me. One more question. Does the author have to keep the same POV throughout the whole chapter,paragraph or throughout the complete story? What I mean is, can we change the POV at certain times? Pretty dumb question I know.
Wendy C. Jan 7, 2008, 6:45pm EST
Judi.. why were you building a sarcophagus?
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:46pm EST
June, Richard, check out that article. It explains a lot. June, rule of thumb: change POV when it's necessary to convey what needs to be conveyed in the scene, but watch head-hopping. Some people are of the "stay in one POV per scene/chapter" mindset, but I'm not. If you need to switch POV, do so, but do it without jarring the reader. Examples in the article.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 6:48pm EST
Thank you Judi, I'll check it out now.
Amy D. Jan 7, 2008, 6:48pm EST
Hi all.
I usually have an idea in my head where my characters are going and how the WIP will turn out. I don't write an outline, just a few ideas. My characters always take a detour to a place I never planned until we all end up there.
Now to catch up on the thread.
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 6:49pm EST
HI Wendy!

I was wondering if anyone was going to wonder about that. Not my normal pasttime and I really did feel like I was building a coffin. One of my kids' social studies project. Not quite sure I wanted to hand power tools over to said child just yet. But we worked together, learning how to cut angles with a mitre saw, cut out the top and bottom with a jigsaw and use a sander (The child is the one covered in sawdust.) Tomorrow the effigy of whatever pharoah chosen will be papermached and the top hinged. Yes, I know they didn't have hinges but the sarcophagus doesn't have to open. Since the child would like to show off the mummy that is also being made, we'll hinge it. I don't want to risk the top sliding off on toes in class.

It was fun. Been a while since I've played with power tools (no, that's not a euphimism people!)
Doug M. Jan 7, 2008, 6:50pm EST
Thanks everyone, for the warm spirited welcome.

Hi Pat... I edit... often for years, but some painters plan and execute in a linear manner. And some expressionists want an existential result and as a matter of doctrine do "one shot" paintings.

It seems to me that it is all about making trades... there is a freshness that only comes with being direct, but then I want more density and editing can add richness and depth.
John Philipp Jan 7, 2008, 6:55pm EST
Sorry, Dana and others.

The links to the two Monday humor articles are:

Cataracts be gone
and
Illegal Avians
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 7:00pm EST
Richard, I think it's that craft that you mentioned is what seems to draw so many people with technical backgrounds in real life, to writing. The same principles apply, but it allows for a more creative side as well.
Vivian A. Jan 7, 2008, 7:02pm EST
I'm an illegal avian, I'm a partridge in New York.

I was actually afraid to ask Judi, glad to hear it is a kid related project :)
Pat S. Jan 7, 2008, 7:04pm EST
Michelle, I vote that you simply plan to host a tea party thread for us, similar to the masquerade. I love the idea of coming as a fictional character.

Doug, my dad is a professional artist, but he tended to be more one-shot. For portraits, he worked from photos, so he had a plan. For everything else, he seemed to just have it in his head and go for it. In sculpting, he said is was simply a matter of removing what didn't need to be there, and leaving the rest.
Beth H. Jan 7, 2008, 7:10pm EST
Rich, for the link to the POV article, click on the blue words on Judi's 6:37 comment--Pov, what is it and how do I get one.

Vivian, yes, we were talking about a murder mystery of some sort. A couple folks thought it might be too much to tackle, but I bet we could do it. I've never done D&D either. Was thinking more of one of those murder/mystery games. It would take some setup...

Michelle, a tea party sounds delightful. As long as it's not too soon. I have got to work on my WoNo. The last pages are coming out of my printer as we speak. No problem chopping out 50,000 words from a 250,000 word epic. No problem whatsoever.

Ahh!!!!!
Amy D. Jan 7, 2008, 7:11pm EST
Judi, what a fun project to do with your child.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 7:16pm EST
Judi, Thank you. This is weird, as soon as I began reading it I realized I had read that before but totally forgot about it. Then I looked in my file of printed material and there it was. This is great.
Lance Trueheart Jan 7, 2008, 7:18pm EST
June, whatever it was, I'm guilty.
Lance Trueheart Jan 7, 2008, 7:19pm EST
Judi, I'm really down with the King Tut.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 7:19pm EST
Doug, your eyes would bleed if you had to edit my manuscript. LOL
Amy D. Jan 7, 2008, 7:20pm EST
Sounds like a fun time Michelle. Would that be eastern time?
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 7:20pm EST
I know Lance ya little hunka hunk.
Lance Trueheart Jan 7, 2008, 7:20pm EST
Oops, phone's ringing. Gotta go.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 7:21pm EST
John, I believe I was there this morning.
June B. Jan 7, 2008, 7:23pm EST
Michelle, I'd love to come. BTW how do we cancel our membership for the alters?
James R. Jan 7, 2008, 7:31pm EST
Doug, nice to have an artist in another medium drop in. My son is a visual artist and tells me that he's starting to have some similar experiences when working on his writing.

Beth, good to hear that your re-write project is going so well. I've done a near total re-write of a first chapter this month and now need to fine tune it to see if I prefer this one to the version I've been editing.

Vivian, good questions. In my two novels, I've started with 2 things. One, a map of things I wanted to write about. Then, a tentative chapter outline. However, I've found that my characters have different ideas and their own agendas; when their passion drives the plot in different directions, I try to listen.
Stephen Prosapio Jan 7, 2008, 7:38pm EST
Rut roh. "Judi's 6:37" that looks an awful lot like.....ahhhh nevermind.

June et al, that is a GREAT POV article. Really says it all. Nice job Judi. BTW I do still remember Judi 7:14: "Join us in the hot tub for martinis!"

LOL
Doug M. Jan 7, 2008, 7:39pm EST
Thanks June and Pat and James and everyone who said hello. I'm going back to work for awhile.

Does this conversation take place everyday? I look forward to the next time.
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 7:39pm EST
The Good Book according to Judi.
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 7:40pm EST
Doug - every day, every hour. There's usually always some around.
Judi F. Jan 7, 2008, 7:42pm EST
some ONE around...
Jerrica K. Jan 7, 2008, 7:42pm EST
Howdy, all! Great question, Vivian!

For me, it has been different with each book. The first one, I was obviously on a learning curve. It took me about 7 months to write, and of course, a year later I'm still revising. I probably have a whole 'nother (is that a word or just something us southerners say??) book with everything that was cut from that one. Needless to say, I had no outline or plot ideas whatsoever when I began.

On the flip side, book 2 was written in 7 weeks. After my trip to London, I mapped out the whole story and just went with it. Little things popped up here and there that were a surprise to me, but for the most part, I stayed very true to my outline.

Book 3 is shaping up to be a beast of its own. I had an outline, but my characters kept doing stuff that I wasn't anticipating. I went with it and now I hate it, so I'm in the middle of rewriting the first half of the book, which will determine the 2nd half, which is yet to be written.

So, I guess I'm partial pantser/partial outliner :)