Abraham Lincoln Quote 12/31/07

I wonder how this would play today.

absolutely...

Interesting. Food for thought...

Interesting posting and comments

War has a way of creating all sorts of new boundaries. It is an interesting part of US history.

I remember growing up in Calif., there was a lot of debate about the state of California breaking up into Northern and Southern States. I've forgotten why exactly, but I think it had to do with the large city populations of the southern portion having to much political say over all the state?

Thanks.

THANKS FOR SHARING VERY INTERESTING

Seems reasonable to me that the portion of Virginia that wanted to stay in the Union be admitted to the Union. Perhaps it should have been called Virginia and the rest of Virginia be called East Virginia.

good quote

I admit it seems reasonable to me that regions within states could opt to stick with the Union rather than go with the seceding portions of the state.

Chaloobi - I think Northern Virginia might as well secede from Virginia as well. The "world view" in the northern counties does seem to be very different from the middle and southern counties.

we could do this w/ puerto rico & benefit from those guys paying taxes

thanks for sharin..glad you are back!!

Was there any body of law which specified rules for secession? Unless there was such a body of law it could hardly be illegal.

On the other hand, the U.S. arranged it with the cooperation of the western counties of Virginia because they could, not because it was legal.

Does it matter now whether it was legal? Probably not. :-)

thanks for this
if i knew this (i'm sure i must have learned in school)
I have forgoten.

I was amazed when I moved to MAryland after living my entire previous life in South Carolina. I worked for a couple from Southern Virginia and I agree with you that this area has soooooooooo much diversity that the southern part does not have - it is shrouded in the history and lure of the Civil War and the DAR personality and the western area is all about the time when the world pulled the area apart during the Civil War while the Northern Virginia mindset sees the Civil War as a tourist money-making machine and the mindset is urban, sophisticated or quasi-sophisticated, international, opinionated about everything and everybody but not a lot of community. There are groups, politicos, contenders, those who are traditional, those who are not, gangs, wannabes of every ilk, posers, philanthropists, white collar criminals, secretive types, revealers, columnists for every twist and turn, very rich, very poor, etc., etc., etc. "It ain't called the mixin' bowl for nothin'" as I was told by someone in Maryland soon after moving here followed by "Have a good one...," the proverbial Maryland good-bye.

Great read! Happy New Year!

Yep, all important to bring them hillbillys into the fold. (I'm joking okay - my b-i-l is from Paw Paw, West Virginia and if that's not hillbilly country ain't nuthin' is)

Super! 10!

Very thought provoking! Great quote to end the year on.

Not sure what I think, but you sure ignite some interesting topics with these quotes. Always enjoyable!!

One quarter of my family were Germans from West Virginia and my mother was born there. I've never thought about what it took to have West Virginia become a state in its own right.

West Virginia seceded from Virginia, not the United States. It seceded in order to remain part of the United States. So, while pretty unorthodox, I think it was constitutional (or at least, not unconstitutional).

Fascinating. Wonder if changes like this could happen again.

Good point Erika. Though Lincoln did sign the bill creating WV.

Yes......seeing as V changed sides, WV wanted to be able to be where they wanted to be not by force but by choice.....ahhhhhh ain't democracy grand.

You get a Big 10 from me. I didn't know that you did these quotes. I am happy to see it. It still amazes me the things I learn on gather. Happy New Year.

I can't speak to the legal issues involved, because I don't know enough about it. But it is definitely something to think about.

Thanks Lynn. The Abraham Lincoln Quote of the Day group is at:

http://www.lincolnquotes.gather.com/

Feel free to join the group directly and set it up so it sends you the daily quote automatically.

Kitty - agreed...with all its faults (and there are many), it seems better for the freedom of individuals than other systems.

Great quote David~

Well now that explains a lot about people from West Virginia! lol ;)

Great quote... And anything is possible, then and even more so, now!

If it is worth ruffling a few feathers its worth saying, I like that

Fascinating, thought-provoking quote! If this happened today, I'd be tempted to say absolutely not. But, in 1863, I would likely have supported this completely.

I know that the District of Columbia has tried to become a state, without much success. I think Puerto Rico has actually tried not to become a state, since it seems to have much of the benefits of being a US territory without all the negatives (though in honesty I can't tell you what either of these are).

Obviously the Civil War was in large part about States Rights. "In the beginning" States held most of the power to govern those within their boundaries. Lincoln helped to give the Federal government much greater power during his administration. This often happens during time of war (e.g., the Civil War, World War II, and the current "war on terror").

Thanks Sue

They did what had to be done. Depending on what historian you read, even Robert E. Lee had troubles deciding which side he was on but eventually got off the fence in favor of his home state. The world is a much 'smaller' place today. I wonder if you'd see similar state loyalties. I had an interesting conversation once with a man from the west coast who thought there might be potential for another civil war, east versus west.

Landen - any talk of a civil war now is just talk...but California does seem to make it's own rules (as much as it can, anyway). Which isn't surprising given its huge economy. The other western coastal states also tend to be more environmentally aware. In some ways, they actually seem to drive national trend...by starting them.

I tend to agree with Erika .. If I read the history correctly, West Virginia was "created" to allow a portion of Virginia that did not wish to secede from the "union" remain in the United States. As the boundaries of states were fixed as they were admitted to the union, it required an official act and, likely, a new name, to create a new state. I am not sure there is a circumstance where this would be allowed today, but territorial boundaries were still being developed at that time.

An interesting piece of US history.

Debra - so much about Lincoln and his times helped set the stage for the future of the US...the slavery issue, tariffs, the relative authority of the States versus the Federal government, etc. And Lincoln somehow remained eloquent and reassuring.

Erika, I never knew that. if I did, I have forgotten. Thanks

I always wondered the reason for virginia splitting, good post