It may be in rather bad taste to mention this ? but when has that ever stopped me?
We could not help noticing a sub-headline to on of the reports of the assassination of Benazir Bhutto read "Pakistan's security forces think the killers may never be caught".
As the attack was carried out by suicide bombers that statement falls into the No Shit Sherlock school of criminal investigation.
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Comments: 22
Isn't it interesting that we will look at all the reasons why a lone loon couldn't have achieved this crime, all the reasons why we'll insistently believe that more were involved, more plots and plans supported this, and demand investigations -- and yet all that same logic applies to the destruction of the WTC and this country sits complacently without real investigation? We don't want to know those WTC answers -- it will lead to a need for action, and we might have to turn off the TVs and computers. Maybe even do without other modern conveniences.
It's really...really hard to believe this happen. The sadness deepen inside.
If they do, I'm sure every nutty kook in town has his theories about everything................hey, kinda like the Left Wing kooks here in the US!
As an Indian friend of mine said: 'What is it that has caused the differences between Indian and Pakistan, 60 years after British rule? India is on an upward march to becoming a world power, but Pakistan moulders in the depths of poverty?' His take... Islam.
My Dear Departed Dad always used to say "Where religion rules, poverty and ignorance flourish."
Oops, this is an American website innit?
It was inevitable that the attack would happen. Nobody seems to have tried to do much to prevent it though. Wasn't that the case with WTC though.
Ooer, it does look as if something dodgy is going on.
I think we underestimate the way governments around the world use fear and panic as a tool to ensure the population are compliant and unquestioning.
Why the reference to the left wing kooks in the US? I've never met a socialist who believes God created the world in seven days.
Guess what...that was the first thought that occurred to me. Great minds and all that.
I've never met a Socialist who believes God created the world in seven days either.............most of them are atheists. Meanwhile, this country is still a vastly Christian country. So it would seem that atheism is in direct conflict with the already-existing beliefs of America, no?
At least the Pakistani version of Gather.com (if there is such a thing) would at least be full of Conspiracy Theories about something believable. Here in this country, you've got all kinds of nutjob Lefties who believe that Jews somehow perpetrated 9/11, that 9/11 was perpetrated by President Bush, that the Bush Administration intended to kill black people in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina................and on, and on, and on............
It's infuriating to listen to this nonsense. That's why I referred to them.
Just proves your Dear Departed Dad's point... doesn't he.
's funny but I have read the rantings of all the nut job conspiracy theories about 9/11 that Bret refers to - and they were all posted by right wing militarist wonks pretending to be lefties.
I was puzzled by the way the twin towers collapsed straight down on themselves, but having limited knowledge I spoke to a structural engineer of my acquauintance. He said "yeah they could go down like that if carefully placed charges in the centre of the buildings had been exploded all around the target floor simultaneoulsly."
An expert demolition job in other words.
It seems highly unlikely that such precision could have been wrought by planes striking one corner. So I would say there are big questions that have never been answered.
But even if those questions are ever answered, some people will just not be prepared to listen until somebody tells then what they want to hear.
Remember seeing dogs sniffing for bodies around the WTC in the days immediately after 9/11? Some of those were bomb-sniffing dogs, looking for remnants to be used at trial (if one ever occurred). No 'hits' were ever recorded in all the time the dogs were there. No bomb 'evidence' was ever recovered. A near-impossibility for such a large crime scene.
In addition, wouldn't you think that someone would have seen the massive amounts of demolition personnel necessary to rig the WTC, before a detonation? None were ever seen. Military investigators once postulated that over 400 men working on this for 2+ weeks would have been necessary to complete such an operation. Don't these two items put that 9/11 conspiracy nonsense to rest? I mean, there's a lot more, but aren't those pretty much the final nails in the coffin?
By the way, what right wing militarists pretending to be lefties were you referring to? Now you have me curious. Link me.
Your response does not make any kind of sense so I am not going to link you to anything as you are not paying attention.
In large tower blocks tower blocks it would not be practical to pump air, water, domestic gas etc. from the sub basement to the upper floors so the blocks have mechanical floors around every ten to fifteen floors. These house pumping equipment, switchgear, water tanks and other services. And the normal passenger lifts don't stop there (hence the myth of "the thirteenth floor". So it would be easy for a specialist crew to work in such spaces undetected.
Also your quoted "military investigators" show once more that the phrase military intelligence is indeed a non sequitur. It would take a couple of guys who knew what they were doing about half a day to rig charges (or 400 US military personnel several months. Oh well, maybe they called in the British, French or Israelis.)
Tidy demolition is a question of containing the explosions. Exploding aircraft fuel is not contained, the tank ruptures on impact and the force of the explosion finds the weaknesses (the windows) and blows them out. Thus most of the explosion's force is blown out of the buliding, away from the area where it would need to be contained.
I'm not saying that is what happened, obviously I don't know what happened. But when we do the science, the official version is exactly what could not possibly have happened.
BTW how would sniffer dogs have found explosives. Explosives, once detonated, tend not to survive the explosion. The resulting detritus is usually an inert compound. Life's a bitch.
You seem confused by my simple, direct points regarding the WTC and 9/11. Which of my comments above didn't make sense to you?
"These house pumping equipment, switchgear, water tanks and other services. And the normal passenger lifts don't stop there (hence the myth of "the thirteenth floor". So it would be easy for a specialist crew to work in such spaces undetected."
You had never been inside the WTC, had you? On the 13th floor of both buildings was the sales office and the security stations. Fully manned. No reports of "men in black".
"Also your quoted "military investigators" show once more that the phrase military intelligence is indeed a non sequitur. It would take a couple of guys who knew what they were doing about half a day to rig charges (or 400 US military personnel several months. Oh well, maybe they called in the British, French or Israelis.)"
Ian, "a couple of guys" (even the stealthiest of guys) would have been seen by the closed circuit cameras on each floor, recorded remotely and sent to the Port Authority security via secure phone lines. Independent security experts and the 9/11 commission took a look at those tapes and saw nothing unusual in the days before 9/11.
In addition, there are plenty of tapes of both buildings as they fell. You and I have both seen them. There are no detonations on each floor, like you usually see when buildings are brought down under controlled-demolition circumstances.
This nonsense about planted bombs or controlled demolitions is silly and absurd. Why pursue such ridiculous claims? You'd be better off to watch a fantasy like "Loose Change"........lol.
As there is no access to the mechanical floors through public areas the security cameras would not record any comings and goings.
When a high building is demolished there are not detonations on each floor but one set of detonations in one of the lower floors. And if you watch the tapes you will see that the video evidence could indicate this is what happened. If the building had collapsed there would have been an emission of dust and debris from each floor as the weight of rubble from above broke the structure. If you watch, you will see there is a blowout at the bottom of each tower and then they start to fall. In a very controlled way. I have previously proved that had the collapse been the result of aircraft hits the towers would have toppled sideways.
Does this prove the conspiracy theories? Absolutely not, but it does suggest there are reasonable grounds for suspiction. What the "independent experts might choose to see or not see could not possibly be influenced by who was footing the bill for their consultancy fees could it? I was a freelance consultant and know how terms of reference for a project can be framed to produce findings compatible with the interests of the commissioning body.
Forget the Rambo stuff Bret, stick with the science. ;-)
"As I said bret, you do not paying attention."
I am, and have been paying close attention, Ian. And so far, there is no compelling evidence that outside agencies, other than the 19 Arab fanatics who've been blamed as the cause of 9/11.
"As there is no access to the mechanical floors through public areas the security cameras would not record any comings and goings."
Security personnel went to work on the 13th floor of both WTC buildings, Ian - every single day.
"I have previously proved that had the collapse been the result of aircraft hits the towers would have toppled sideways."
The lead architect from Yamasaki & Associates (lead architects on the WTC project 1966 to completion of the build) stated specifically why the buildings would NOT fall sideways, by design, immediately after 9/11.
You see the metal-lattice design below on the WTC edifice?
Now check it out after the destruction on 9/11. See how it is still standing in 6-10 story increments?
Yamaguchi & Associates designed it that way, so that if anything catastrophic ever happened, the building would pancake straight down on itself. The metal lattice work would act like big hands on the outside of the building guiding the debris to street level. New building codes in the mid-60's forced Yamaguchi architects to design the WTC towers this way.
Forget the "science", Ian. It turns out that the building codes were the reason the towers acted like they did. That and a great design.
Oh, and Ian - I've seen hundreds of videos and pics of all the floors. No "flashes" from detonations or anything else have ever been observed.
As with all right wing commentators, you keep referring to what I said when I have said no such thing. I never said terrorists planted the charges, I never said there were charges, all I have done is to question the official versions of events.
So if you are paying attention as you insist, they you do not understand simple English. Another common failing among supporters of the religious right I'm afraid.
We don't want to know those WTC answers I do, Dannielle. I want everyone to know the answers.
You're too late, I got bored with Bret. Like all the rabid right he just repeats the same point over and over. So as I was not willing to let him have the last word I closed the thread except to friends.