Discussion Topic #20: The Death Penalty--Should we have it? What are the spiritual implications?

My sympathies are with the victims and their families, but I can not support the death penalty which makes killers of us all.

I do not support the death penalty for many reasons. First of all, I believe it lowers us to the level of the one we are killing. Secondly, our justice system....(though better than most) is not fair, and minorities and the poor are at a disadvantage when they enter they system. Thirdly, I believe that where there is life, there is hope.

In some cases yes,

I have nothing "religious" about my spirituality and even it is all about "balance" ... so I have no strong opinion that I would insist upon the world to abide by ... other than to develop their spiritual side (that which is INside) ... then they would tend to lean towards the love and forgiveness when it at least seemed possible to do so ... seems that I agree more with Dean on that, especially his last sentence based upon the views of the majority.

There is never an acceptable reason to kill another person. By endorsing the death penalty, we lower ourselves to the level of the convicted person.
Families who have lost a loved one deserve sincere sympathy, consolation and support, but vindication should never be a motivation for retribution.

As much as I can sympathize with the pain that victims and their families feel over the wrongs that have been done to them. I cannot support the death penalty. We are too fallible to take that heavy responsibility upon ourselves.

Denny, I would ask you...When do we know that someone is 100% guilty? How can we ever be that certain? There are so many injustices in our court system.

Also, it makes me very uncomfortable that you use the term "put down" for killing someone. These are not animals that you are speaking of but human beings.

And to say that there is no rehabilitation in our prisons is unfair. Redemption is always possible and it does happen.

Sometimes I hear something so horrible I want the death penalty for someone, but in reality I do not believe in it, and I do believe it is wrong, so wouldn't support it. I do believe in keeping violent murderers/criminals in prison for the rest of their lives and do not see why this is not done. I would have no problem keeping a murderer in jail for life, in fact, I definitely support that. Pedophiles and sex offenders also. So much harm is done to people by repeat offenders. If I could control this no vicious murderer or sex offender would ever get out. For someone who got in a fight and killed really without the intention going into a fight of killing is a gray area for me. But those who stalk and plan and carry out murder should never be out to do this again. Some people must be protected from themselves. I wouldn't go the route of rehabilitation for any sex offender. I know some disagree with this, but it is my personal opinion. And I don't run the show anyway.

I may get angry and want to pull the switch myself.

But I don't think the government should be in the job of "institutional revenge" - revenge is revenge and we should try and act civilized and not do law-and-order based on revenge. I think Capital Punishment is basically that. Revenge. That sounds primitive to me.

When my brother-in-law was murdered, only one of he five young boys involved showed any type of remorse. Unfortunately our justice system is so unbalanced. Four of the boys served no time, and the one who actually did the deed got nine years in prison, and he wasn't the one to showed remorse. In fact, he was a smart a$$ even to the judge. We were astonished at what took place in that courtroom. The state is not the one who lost the loved one, and yet the family has no say whatsoever.


That said, who am I to judge another Master's servant. I think the only one who has a right to take a life is the one who created it, and I am not talking about a biological mother. The state is playing God, removing a being from society. It really isn't setting a good example for the society they govern. Forgiveness is a powerful message.

As someone who routinely does soul-healing work, including things like soul retrieval, negative energy extraction, and de-possession, I see there's a missing link in our way of dealing with social illnesses like murders and rapes.

Because of spiritual ignorance, our society does not do right by either murderer or victim.

The phenomenon of "possession" is actually quite common. The ordinary variety of possession doesn't cause a person to become a murderer.
There is a more difficult variety of possession - that which is termed "demonic possession" - and you'll find prisons and gangs and some armies and military outfits where there is a fairly high rate of demonic possession. That sort of possession can very definitely cause a person to become a murderer.

For demonic possession to take root, there must be some kind of soul loss, so that an individual is left in a low-vibratory state, and is vulnerable to such attatchments. It's common, for instance, in both gang and boot camp "initiations," for people to be humiliated and sometimes punished or tormented to the point where they've had quite a lot of their soul energy stolen. At that point, the most vulnerable ones may take on possessions.

My point is this: by executing someone whose possessing entities have caused him to commit murder, the state is not helping the situation. Yes, they're getting rid of one physical body. BUT they're also releasing a number of negative entities - some probably demonic - into the population, to enter other vulnerable individuals and cause more harm.

Were I in charge of this situation, I would insist that a murderer have a set of choices which could include spiritual healing and, if needed, de-possession work. The murderer could also choose execution or suicide, but should be able to choose healing.

The healing team and the state lawgivers could work with the case from there.
If healing were the choice, then this, this, and this would result.
If some form of death were the choice, then, still a team of healers should be present in order to trap the possessing entities and put them through healings or remove them from the planet.

The point being, killing a body does NOT rid us of the social illness; but dealing with possessing entities can definitely heal and improve our whole society.

Do I "approve" of state-run executions? No. That's just part of the "consumer religion USA" sickness that includes human sacrifice (death penalty and bloody warmongering).

Sister Helen Prejean (Dead Man Walking) has written widely on this topic. The Death of Innocents was an extraordinarily compelling book, pointing plainly at Texas and Virginia as those carrying out the vast majority of the total state executions in the USA. Her argument also more subtlely pointed to our nation's legacy of slavery as another strong influence on those found guilty and put to death. The vast majority of executions take place in the south.

But most compelling was her argument concerning how our justice system rewards "law & order" district attorneys and justices. The more "successful" the public servant is seen to be in the eyes of the voting public (ala' numbers of successful convictions), the farther up the system he/she is propelled. The unfortunate fact is that there then is a rush to justice without proper defense, often with prosecution evidence being held from the defense attorneys until the trial itself. But since the public voted in the candidate on the promise of a strong law enforcement, his numbers bear out his promise to the electorate and the promise is kept.

I was never in favor of the death penalty, and often thought similarly to Brian, above. How can we ever be 100% sure? But Sr. Prejean's arguments put an entirely brighter light on the subject. We have frequently killed innocent people. Mandatory DNA evidence is begining to change some of that, but ultimately process leading to take another human being's life is so fraught with emotion and inappropriate vengence that it should be plain to see its futility, not to mention it sinfulness.

I think the Amish got it right in October 2006. They lost 5 girls in a school house and felt their loss no less potently than any of us would. But their faith teaches them the ultimate power and healing strength of forgivenss, for the victims as well as the perpetrators. Our nation needed to grieve their loss and did so by sending in donations. The Amish used that money to established a fund for the killer's wife and 3 children, and when the killer was buried, half the 75 mourners in attendance were Amish.

We could learn something from that.

I am encouraged by the thoughtful responses--the compassion and very intimate sharing. I am grateful for the level of consciousness that I witness here with my Gather friends.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

By that measure you judge, so shall you be judged.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Bless your enemies.

Anyone can love their friends, who can love their enemies?

In the book of Kells, the verse in KJV 'I come not to bring Peace, but a sword' is translated as 'I come not only to bring Peace, but JOY.

Personally, I don't see where violence has solved anything, as the same problems keep popping up over and over again, throughout our history. We're obviously missing the point somewhere.

Kevin, I'm curious, what is the book of Kells? And I couldn't agree more. Violence doesn't solve anything--it only begets more violence. We have war after war in our world. As human beings, we haven't yet learned how to solve problems and conflicts by means other than fighting.

The Book of Kells.
'The work not of men, but of angels'...

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_%281913%29/Book_of_Kells

I had the strange idea that the sword that Jesus referred to bringing was to cut the cleavage ties of the people from their material relatives, to be transferred to the spiritual understanding and allegiance ...

YES! The death penalty IS a deterrent. Like it or not, people must be made to face the consequences of their actions. I don't think anyone could disagree that the likes of John Wayne Gacy should have been hung. Any of these monsters that mutilate, rape, torture and kill our children should be put to death and I'd be happy to pull the switch. I do believe if the death penalty was used MORE and without the liberal whiners crying over the bloody RIGHTS of the criminal by saying it's cruel....they should talk to the victims families about what is TRULY cruel and inhumane.

I believe in the death penalty. I think living a life in prison could be far worse. Once the person dies they will still go to spirit prison anyway.

The death penalty has not been proven to be any more of a deterrent than a long prison sentence.

Our justice system is uneven in terms of race and class. Many people on trial for murder cannot afford an attorney. Most public defenders are overworked, and may have limited experience with capitol cases.

A sentence of life in prison without parole is much less costly to tax payers than is the death penalty.

For more detailed information, please visit National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty at ncadp.org and The Innocence Project at innocenceproject.org

Killing is wrong regardless of whether the state or individual does it.