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by ''The One & Only BERF" ..
Member since:
August 28, 2007

"THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS A DEAD MUSLIM"......

December 05, 2007 04:20 AM EST
views: 1640 | comments: 148

I got on Google earlier tonight and, just out of curiosity, I typed the phrase "The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim" in the search box. Then, when the search results appeared on my computer screen, I was utterly shocked to see 458,000 matches come up. So, I began to click on the first few websites to see what they said. All I can say is, if I was shocked at the number of websites I saw, I was a hundred times more shocked at some of the things they contained.

At this link:

 http://terrorwebs.blogspot.com/2006/07/only-good-muslim-is-dead-muslim.html

there were a series of articles, some of them were titled "Rot In Hell Muslim Pig!!!" and "Die Filthy Muslim!" and "Burn For Eternity Muslim Pig!" and a few others that I don't even want to list here. These articles were accompanied by gruesome photos of the mutilated bodies of Russian soldiers (so viewer beware).

At another site:

http://americanjihad.blogspot.com/2006/08/only-good-muslim-is-dead-muslim.html

some racist named George M. Wennert  stated, "The ongoing war with Islamofacism can no longer be fought with care and compassion. Events around the world make this quite clear. The Islamofeces cockroaches are on the march, and if we do not kill them all, they shall kill us."  The writer's words were accompanied by a copy of Kurt Westergaard's anti-Mohammad cartoon that appeared a couple years ago in a Danish newspaper and caused a lot of controversy.

At still yet another site:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rnr/494962995.html

there is a doctored photo of a young Muslim boy with his head blown open and, above it, is written, "I LOVE to hear of stories of Muslim men, women, and children being blown up by American bombs, it makes me so happy to hear about Muslims suffering. I hate Muslims more than AIDS and cancer combined and I applaud anyone who has the courage to harm or kill one."

I could go on listing website after website that contain statements like this or much, much worse. But this article would be a mile long and I would probably need to go throw up for about three days straight after I finished. If anyone is still curious and wants to see more, they can do the same thing I did and check it out for themselves.

The purpose of this article, however, is not to list off websites that threaten and insult Muslim people. My purpose for writing this is to draw everyone's attention to the obvious. The term "Muslim people" means just that----People.
Fathers and Mothers and Grandparents and Children and Babies.....Human beings.

In the true meaning of the term, "Muslim people" does not mean evil men crashing airplanes into tall buildings. It does not mean madmen strapping explosives to their bodies and vaporizing themselves in a crowded marketplace. It does not mean individuals who are so full of hate and ugliness that they want to kill anything that isn't like them.

Many individuals call themselves Muslims and claim to represent Islam in their words and actions, but they are just imposters who have hijacked Islam to justify their own hatred and self-righteous elitism. The real "Muslim people" are no different than you or me. They pretty much want the same things out of life that everyone else wants. To be loved and accepted, to cherish their children and watch them grow up, and to have a small patch of ground somewhere on this earth that they can call home.

Every religion in the world has its wackos that give it a bad name, Just as Islam has its Osama bin Ladens and Mahmoud Ahmadinejads, Christianity has its David Koreshes and Timothy McVeighs. This is the greatest flaw that I see in the "War On Terrorism": It burns the wheat down right along with the tares. It is indiscrininate and causes many people to be indiscriminate in their thinking. Thus, through this kind of "lump-them-all-together" mentality, the phrase "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim" gets twisted into something that actually makes sense to anyone who allows themselves to think this way.

Too often, differences in religion and belief systems blinds us to the fact that religious discrimination isn't about hurting and hating a religion, it is about hurting and hating human beings like ourselves. If people must be hated, they should be hated for the things they do, not for the things they believe. What someone believes does not make them evil. It is how they behave and treat others, based on their beliefs, that defines them as good or bad.

That is why a "good Muslim" does not mean a "dead" one. A good Muslim or a good anybody is "good" because of how he or she treats other people.
Because underneath the facade of religion there still exists the individual components
of humanity---------People.
And whether they be Muslim, or Christian, or Buddhists, or Hindus, or whatever, they are still human beings who deserve respect, if they have earned it. Or love and acceptance, if they can find it. Or the benefits and pleasures of life, if they can obtain them. Or a sense of dignity and self-worth, if the rest of the world will just allow them to have it.

 

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Comments: 148

Zissy Foy Dec 5, 2007, 4:23am EST
just plain sickening.

Bring on the PEACE.
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Danielle P. Dec 5, 2007, 5:42am EST
It is a shame that people don't take people for who they are individually.
People that try to spread hate don't know the Lord.
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Michael Harvey Dec 5, 2007, 6:29am EST
Berf your work is so good that you should allow them to be rated. I can't see how votes of bigots could distract from your high rating. I promise you there are more of us than them.
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carolyn b. Dec 5, 2007, 6:45am EST
I agree with you Danielle, they don't know the Lord!
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Leslie ~ from NYC ~ R. Dec 5, 2007, 6:58am EST
I remember reading a poster a few years ago - calling terrorists "Good Muslims" is like calling the guys who blew up the Federal Building in Oklahome, "good Christians".
Thanks for your courage in writing this.
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Vana R. Dec 5, 2007, 7:12am EST
There's so much hate in the world it's equally sad, sickening and frightening.
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Kim A. Dec 5, 2007, 7:57am EST
I agree w/Danielle and carolyn.
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Dee - Nature Babe! Dec 5, 2007, 8:38am EST
this is insane. Just like not every American owned Slaves, neither is every Muslim a terrorist.

Thank you Berf for bring up a very sensitive issue!
Angel sent from God Secret Sisters Sep 30, 2009, 11:51pm EDT
Dee
I agree with you !!
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Doris H. Dec 5, 2007, 8:55am EST
So sad, I pray for the world to understand that we are all brothers and sisters.
We should celebrate our differences and stop the hatred!
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Donna Hammett-Tooker Dec 5, 2007, 9:01am EST
The same was said of American Indians in the Wild West days and African-Americans in the 1960s during the Civil Rights Wars. It is a catch phrase customizable for whatever contingency one has no use for - if you realy want to be unsettled, view the old movie "The Strawberry Statement" and sit and ponder what it says.
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Richard B. Dec 5, 2007, 9:07am EST
Why in the world would you or anyone not think that this is the way many in this world now think of the Muslims, That's the real puzzle.
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Tina (a slightly smaller Spanky) B. Dec 5, 2007, 9:14am EST
There are sick, twisted people in this world, and there will be until the day the earth ceases to be.

And as Dina said, not every American owned slaves, not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every Christian is an extremist. Hatred knows no boundaries.
Charles Evans Oct 7, 2009, 1:53pm EDT
Hatred knows no boundaries... very well put !!!
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Erin S. Dec 5, 2007, 9:29am EST
Thanks for the good article. I liked it because it reminds people that there is no "us" versus "them;" we're all just people who have to share the world together.

I wonder if people realize how close Islam and Judaism are, philosophically and spiritually. I wonder if they realize that when they say/write these things, they sound just like Nazis talking about Jews. It's scary.
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Sherrie H. Dec 5, 2007, 9:30am EST
It is so sad when people sink to the level of their enemies / terrorists / radicals. It would never even occur to me to type in that phrase or to think such a thing.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. Dec 5, 2007, 9:31am EST
It sickens me to think that there are people such as this that exist in flesh and blood and walk the Earth. People who live under the same God . . . with minor differences in faith should never have these thoughts. Nobody should. The only difference between these people and Muslim extremist suicide bombers is that the terrorists at least have the strength of their convictions and the courage to die for them . . . unlike these cowards who reek of the stench of violence and ignorance and seek to communicate that diseased frame of mind to others. It's shameful. ...And that some of these people bear the same Nationality as I do is something that I am truly ashamed of . . . and I will bear that shame without them. But I will not bear the ignorance that led to it nor will I ever - EVER - espouse hatred or violence. These poor deluded people have chosen to live in hatred . . . what a lonely, dark existence.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Peter Joseph Swanson Dec 5, 2007, 9:54am EST
Some people are willfully mentally retarded. Since All Muslims aren't going to drop dead, I'd say it this way (the way I want it to be): "The only good Muslim is a liberal Muslim".

But then that's certainly as pie in the sky.
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Elizabeth F. Dec 5, 2007, 10:28am EST
I agree with berf about we are all human regardless of our beliefs. We as humanity are losing our value for life. What the terrorists did was very wrong and hopefully they will be brought to justice.

There are extremists in all beliefs who carry out their own sense of right and wrong. The message for all should be "love thy neighbor".

If you haven't watched the Movie Kingdom of Heaven, there is a message there about the value of life.

The United States was built on Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom of religion is a big part of it, but it is not just freedom of one religion. -Sorry, that could be a whole number of topics. We just have to stop the "Them" and "Us" habit. The terrorists and extremists are the problem. We can't use generalities and say all Muslims.
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Spencer T. Dec 5, 2007, 10:29am EST
Powerfully thoughtful article, Berf.

Thanks for sharing.
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Barbara S. Dec 5, 2007, 11:30am EST
They are still human beings, no matter what religion the practice. If a Muslim commits a crime he should be punished like everyone else...no different.
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Rainbo O. Dec 5, 2007, 1:38pm EST
Can't we all just get along?
Betty Clark Nov 26, 2009, 12:59pm EST
:)
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Tara R. Dec 5, 2007, 2:24pm EST
It is scary to see how far away from love, kindness and peace that this world is growing each and every day.
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Ron C. Dec 5, 2007, 2:51pm EST
Christianity has its David Koreshes ?
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Bethany C. Dec 5, 2007, 3:39pm EST
Jesus died on the cross for every human being in the world. If any one person in this world would have been the only person, Jesus would still have died for that one.
We can disagree with what someone believes and still love them. But we cannot honestly call ourselves Christians if we hate.
My daughter smokes. I hate cigarettes because of what they can do to her. But I love her. I even love the people who sold them to her first and those that helped her get addicted. I don't like what they did, but I love them.
We may even think someone a heathen. But God's word says that if the heathen, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, they are a law unto themselves. Jesus said the law is fulfilled in these two things, love the Lord, and love your neighbor as yourself.
If a Muslim, or any other person, loves God to the best of their knowledge and loves their neighbor as theirself, they are just as saved by the blood of Jesus as anybody else. Jesus said that whosoever is not against us is for us.
What the knowledge of Jesus does is ensure a true Christian peace of mind and spiritual power. As many as receive Jesus, to them he gives power to become the sons of God. The works he did and greater, we could do, he promised us.
Evil is evil. If the people who hate Muslims or anybody else call themselves Christians they lie. They'd best repent. They are liable to look up from hell and see some of the very people they hated in heaven.
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Geri F. Dec 5, 2007, 3:41pm EST
Respect for life in all forms is a given. Respect for the individual is earned,not a given. Can you really respect Tim McVeigh or individuals like him? Can you respect the men responsible for 911? Everyone has a right to their life and beliefs,but that does not mean they have a right to impose their life or beliefs on others. Fanatics of all kinds make it bad on the whole in general.
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Tanya S. Dec 5, 2007, 5:31pm EST
There's so much hate in the world it's sicking
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Agron M. Dec 5, 2007, 5:51pm EST
I think that people who are thinking this way and trying to spoil someone or any community for any reason are spoiling themselves. They write this sort of scrapy thinks but they simply can't understand that are alone in this universe.

Simply if you hate cristians you hate yourselfe in fact. And if you hate muslim community you do the same mistake. Bothways those scrapy opinions leads you toward an empty space where you are just alone.

In modern world smart people are all togather regardless of their belifs or political profiles.

Be smart and stay together. And one more think keep on writing on gather.com ;-)
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Lydia (part of the solution) Shelley Dec 5, 2007, 6:52pm EST
Tad was telling me that in Australia Muslims routinely are spat upon in the streets... just for being Muslim.
: (
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Roxanne H. Dec 5, 2007, 8:36pm EST
No matter what you believe you should be treated fairly. I think people get too caught up in religion sometimes.
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Carole S. Dec 5, 2007, 9:25pm EST
Very well said. However, it is the extreme Muslims who are causing some people to hate all Muslims. It is their hatred of us and the Jews that is bringing about the hatred for all Muslims by a few of us. (I do not hate all Muslims by the way. Just want to make that clear.) Part of the problem I feel is that the American Muslims are not doing enough about standing up and calling out these extremists. They do not say it is wrong. It is the same with all moderate Muslims around the world. They say nothing when atrocities are committed. And their church leaders say nothing. I have seen one or two brave Muslim women stand up and say enough is enough. They have told the truth about extreme Muslims. They do so at risk to their lives. I truly admire these women. Where are the Muslim men? Where are the moderate Muslim men standing up and telling these extremist they are wrong, hateful, killers and cowards. So, yes I am not surprised by what you have pointed out.
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Jennine D. Dec 5, 2007, 11:16pm EST
Jesus loved all people even those who hated him. People are people and none are perfect only Christ was. Why should we take on such a terrible attitude. People who do this are no better than Muslims who do the same. Hatred is not going to bring anything but violence and revenge and retaliation and the innocent always suffer.
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Martin L. Dec 6, 2007, 8:18am EST
Berf, you sent me an email asking my opinion, so here goes. I strongly disagree with you. The situation with Muslims is no different than the situation with Nazi Germany. Many many Germans were good people, but the Nazi beast acquired enough power and represented enough of a threat that for all practical matters, we were at war with the German people. It was a justified war to save civilization.

In a similar way, many Muslims believe they must make the world islamic by force (jihad). Bin Laden clearly states this is a religious war started by him and his followers. Therein lies the crux of the problem. Muslims historically and today believe in a Caliphate, one large Islamic country. So many Muslims, perhaps the vast majority, see no problem with, and actually want, Islamic religious law becomming the law of the land, every land. I will fight that.

That is why Muslims for example in England, do not understand why they cannot live by Islamic law alone (such as allowing polygamy). To the Muslims credit, Jews and Christians could live under their own laws in Islamic countries provided they paid the "second class tax" and submitted to the supremacy of islamic law when necessary. Hindus and Budhists are killed under Islamic law because they are "idol worshippers". So Muslims want the favor returned.


As for Muslim persecution, give me a break. Six million Jews were methodically murdered by the nazis, in less than ten years. Less than ten thousand pallestinians have died in total MANY OF THEM COMBATANTS, MANY DURING THE FIGHTING since the State of israel was fromed in 1948 (most of the Arab states were formed about then). Wars the Arabs started. And people have the right to call Zionists, Nazis ?

There are still about 600% more Hate crimes against Jews than Muslims according to FBI statistics. Yet Cair and other islamist shills would have people believing that only Muslims are discriminated against. it enraged me when some Islamic propoganda group had a commercial after 9-11 complaing about the stares young Muslim women get when dressed in the forced black "garbage bags" of oppresion ( I call them garbage bags because they are forced on women by Law in certain Islamic countries). If I were to dress up as an chasisidic jew I would be beaten up in many many places in the US, nevermind stares just about everywhere.

Finally in our nuclear age, with Islamic terrorists acquiring and having probably already acquired nuclear or radiological weapons, we face a real existential threat. The next 9-11 will be an attack involving nuclear bombs or nuclear material. Thta will destroy or cause the collapse of our economic system (wipe out wall street at least), and the bif bad Evil empire collapses, like the Soviet Union did because of the islamist victory in Afghanistan (at least the Islamists think they caused it)
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Martin L. Dec 6, 2007, 8:30am EST
On the other hand, we can ignore this and say "Can't we all just get along" and sing "cumbaya". Berf, also, your search is misleading . Try putting quotes and compare "kill all jews" with "kill all muslims".

Kill all Jews (with quotes so it is treated as a phrase) 23,000 hits
kill all muslims 15,000 hits

If we added "kill all jews" in the various Islamic languages, we would get far far more.

It goes without saying that a vary tiny people that gave the world the bible, jesus, the Apostles, Einstein, many of todays medical advancements, are so hated. On the other hand, a society that has been at war with the world, islam , and has contributed virtually nothing in the Sciences or human advancement in the past 500 years, is so babied, and protected (relatively speaking). It sickens sentient people.
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Martin L. Dec 6, 2007, 8:37am EST
Peter has a point. The only good Muslim is a very liberl Muslim, meaning the less Islam in a Muslim, the better he is as a person. What does that say about Islam. I can put it another way: The only good Muslim is a spiritually dead Muslim".
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Martin L. Dec 6, 2007, 8:52am EST
I can illustrate why islam is to blame as a religion and society by comparing it to Judaism. Both religions have crazy commandments. In Judaism we are commanded to kill every Amalekite on sight. It is the most horrible sin not to. And we must kill every Amolekite man woman and child. However, the rabbis teach us that we cannot tell who is an Amolekite today. Therefore as far as I know, no Jews are killing people on the basis of them being Amalakites.
Now imagine that Judaism was as crazy as Islam. Imagine 1.2 billion Jews, many fervent and devout. Imagine their Rabbis tell them that the Amalekites are Scientologists. You get the point.

On the other hand, islam says, according to many Clerics, to make the world Islamic by any means, or kill the idolator. Imams are saying that is the correct interpretation. You see the result.

Another example, when Jews ruled Israel during the time of the biblical court, Senhedren, there were only a few executions a decade. Compare that with the saudi beheadings every year under Islamic law. You see the point ?
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Quinn (aka Entwife) Blackburn Dec 6, 2007, 1:37pm EST
Amen
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Jacob G. Dec 6, 2007, 2:12pm EST
What a provocative title. I worry about sharing those articles though.
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Jason P. Dec 7, 2007, 6:49am EST
Muslim or non-Muslim doesn't matter if someone is trying to kill me. I'll treat everyone equally in that case. Self-preservation is REALLY high on my list of Things To Do Today. Responding TO deadly force WITH deadly force is not "sinking to their level". It is simply granting the antagonist the only destruction he/she ever had a right to choose in the first place: his/her own.
So many people killed over religion over the centuries. And for WHAT? To what end? For what purpose? Does whatever supreme being being worshiped really WANT all this death and destruction? I can't see that. Even Satanism advises it's followers thusly: "When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them." To ME, that means that we should keep to ourselves and not go chasing others around looking for trouble. Why is that so HARD?
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Martin L. Dec 7, 2007, 11:35am EST
Why I hate Islam as much as any other evil in the world:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/opinion/07ali.html?ex=1354683600&en=feef103f980b9c7c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

www.littlegreenfootballs.com
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Debra C. Dec 7, 2007, 1:38pm EST
In the words of Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?".

Thank you for reminding that we need to actively NOT hate in a society that seems to tolerate it.
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Martin L. Dec 7, 2007, 3:55pm EST
here is a link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/opinion/07ali.html?ex=1354683600
Chuck L. Jun 14, 2009, 4:10pm EDT

Do you have anything of your own to say, Martin?

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Shirley U Understand Me S. Dec 7, 2007, 7:02pm EST
Thank goodness that God reads the hearts of men( women and children) and that He is the ultimate Judge of all the earth. A person will be judged by what they do and who they are in His eyes and He will reward or destroy as is fitting based on what He sees. "Not the way man sees is the way God sees". There is only one truth and He is the One who determines what that truth is. His Son said that he will separate people as a shepherd separates sheep and goats. Not all people believe these things and that's too bad because it means their future is limited and their present unhappy.
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Mazli Noy Dec 7, 2007, 8:16pm EST
On the day that the Koran is reworded and Islam is NOT intending to kill all infidels then all is well. For now, I think people ought to carefully read the Koran and understand just how global and indiscriminate the term "Infidel" is. If not, then go beyond September 11th and weigh the percentage of terrorist actions from Islamists as opposed to any other terrorist group. They have no respect for life whatsoever and train their children about the beauty of being martyrs. Here they are at age 3 already saying they want to be martyrs for their higher power. Do I think they should all be killed? No. There are several in hiding who want out and these are the people we should try to help. The others that want to kill us and them are another story. The same way Moussaui wanted us to kill him so he could be an indirect martyr for 9/11, death is a gift. Education is a slander. Heck several people are converting and wanting to embrace Islamic ways, they must want those 70 virgins.
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Martin L. Dec 7, 2007, 8:39pm EST
Good people are only good if they hate evil. islam is evil. Therefore good people hate islam. If you do not hate islam, you are not good.
Angel sent from God Secret Sisters Sep 30, 2009, 11:56pm EDT
Iam glad you are not running the Country!!
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Gaddy Bergmann Dec 7, 2007, 9:51pm EST
Berf, I'm afraid your opinion is indicative of the prevailing politically correct climate. Most of your commentators, although well meaning, are simply regurgitating the inoffensive sentiments du jour, but Mazli Noy and Martin L. are saying what needs to be said.

Yes, of course it is sad to hear anyone say that "A good ______ is a dead ______." We should not wish evil upon anyone. However, has it not occurred to you that Islam has brought this animosity upon itself? Have you not read the Koran and seen how many of its passages preach violence and intolerance?

All over the world, Muslim nations are engaged in wars and conflicts with non-Muslim nations. Muslim Afghans fight their Buddhist neighbors. Muslim Pakistanis attack Hindu Indians. Muslim Palestinians bomb Jewish Israelis. Muslim Chechens fight against Christian Russians. Muslim immigrants in England, France, and Germany are actively working to destroy their adoptive countries from the inside-out. And sadly, Muslim terrorists have included America in this onslaught.

And there's no sign of letting up. All over the world, militant Muslims are actively seeking to conquer the world. You think I'm exaggerating? Pay attention to a wide variety of news outlets - not just the major ones - and you will see. Muslims are actively trying to establish an Islamic empire. Islam is not just a religion; it's an international political movement.

Are there good Muslims out there? Of course there are. There are good people all over the world who are victims of dictatorial regimes or oppressive societies, and the free world should do what it can to help them. But don't buy into that PC drivel about the militants of Islam being only a tiny minority. They're not. Surveys have shown that from 20% to 50% of Muslims in the Middle East or in America, can either see a rationale for terrorism or sympathize with terrorist causes. That is not a small minority. That is a large minority, or maybe even half the population. Yes, there are good people among the Muslims of the world, but they are by no means a powerful majority.

Yes, it is indeed sad to say that "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim," and I look forward to the day when that kind of sentiment is no longer expressed. But Islam, in its aggressive intolerance toward the rest of the world, has brought that attention to itself. If Muslims want the world to be at peace with them, then they will have to make peace with the world.
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Martin L. Dec 7, 2007, 10:21pm EST
Gaddy is right. I can only add one note to his perfect summation. The Muslims that do notspeak out and act out forcefully against the evil Islamists bear a certain moral responsibility. its funny how many speak out about any percieved insult to Islam, but when Islam is doing the insulting, the silence is deafening.
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Gaddy Bergmann Dec 7, 2007, 10:45pm EST
That's true, Martin L. I am constantly SHOCKED to learn how Muslims are insulted to the point of rioting violently when someone says something bad about the prophet Mohamed, or publishes offensive cartoons (as in Denmark), or treats the Koran in a disrespectful way. Yet these same people have no problem with mutilating the genitals of little girls, or torturing or killing women who are rape victims. These people seriously have to reevaluate their priorities. Islam is in desperate need of reform. The movement is growing, but it is still slow and meeting much resistance. Read the books of Noni Darwish, Brigitte Gabriel, Irshad Manji, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and you will see just how much people are suffering under the thumb of Islam. And listen to Wafa Sultan, who is also an outspoken critic of Islam. Again, I do not condone hate speech toward Muslims or anyone else. But it is naive to think that people hate Islam for no reason.
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Matthew J. Dec 8, 2007, 12:55pm EST
Both the article and the bulk of the comments miss the point: tace Tony Blair, Islam is NOT a religion of peace. It is a 'religion' of hatred, one that preaches unending warfare against all the 'infidels' until the entire world is brought under Moslem rule.
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Mazli Noy Dec 8, 2007, 1:25pm EST
Yep, just like "Pinky & the Brain" just wanting to do the same thing they do every night "Plan to take over the world!"
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Martin L. Dec 8, 2007, 3:47pm EST
Islam - The Religion of the Perpetually Offended
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Martin L. Dec 8, 2007, 6:58pm EST
Read Abraham Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address carefully. Lincoln says that it was because the "insurgents" wanted to expand the scope of slavery that the war was waged by the North, (reluctantly) to end slavery everywhere.

Likewise, the Islamists want to expand the scope of Islam, a type of slavery, and we have been forced to wage war. We might as well remove the cancer of Islam while we are at it.
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Franklin Newman Dec 9, 2007, 2:46am EST
This is nothing but the revival of the crusades. It's just bigotry and racism in disguise. The Muslim world is different, yes, and it has its bad points. Islamofascism? I don't see the Islamists spreading themselves out trying to use money to force everyone into the McDonaldsization of the rest of the world. Those who preach that kind of bigotry should spend less time talking to people who actually read and research things, and take a good look at their primarily Christian-centrism or Ameri-centrism. It's so easy to be so full of yourself, especially when war fever is all you ever see.
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Martin L. Dec 9, 2007, 9:22am EST
To really understand Islam, watch the movie "No Country for Old men". It is a metaphor for Islam. The dude with the bad haIRCUT, CHUGAR, is the personification of Islam.

Franklin, you mouthed your lines like a true Islamist shill and apologist. Short on substance, long on vague inaplicable concepts. I guess you call 9-11 and involvement in every war on the planet mere "bad points"
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Mazli Noy Dec 9, 2007, 12:46pm EST
True it is in bad taste to mock the murder of a child, but they are murdering their children on a daily basis and teaching them to murder as well through the act of suicide bombing.

I honestly wish that there were any feasable suggestion to stop these arbitrary homicides from continuing to destroy the world piece by piece.
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Muhdah A. Dec 9, 2007, 3:44pm EST
Berf thanks for this article. I checked out the first two sites mentioned and found the second to be more terribly disturbing than the first. I think the sites are the creation of two ignorant, prejudiced people.
I disagree with any individual who preaches hate and lives their life hating people because they are different or do not live life in a righteous manner. No one on this earth is perfect.

The rise of Muslim terrorism is a problem which is close to me. I'm African-American and was raised as a muslim by my father who converted as a young man (he was raised as a christian). As a muslim I was never taught to hate; actually my father taught me to take the high road when dealing with people and he never supported using violence to solve problems. I grew up around black and non-black muslims and there was never any expression of hatred toward non-muslims. Instead these muslims, though they sometimes criticized the beliefs of other religions, were tolerant. Also, there was never any talk of killing anyone because they were not muslim.

But what the people who are critical of Islam & the Koran need to remember--religion is man made, and the Koran was written not by the hand of God itself but by men who are human and therefore flawed. People teach hate--God does not. I think all of the harsh words of the Koran towards non-believers and non-muslims are the thoughts of a man or group of men who wanted to be God, and wanted to speak for God; they were out to force people to conform to their ways and beliefs. I do not agree with the negative aspects of the Koran such as killing non-believers and it's views toward women, but killing all muslims is not the solution to the problem of muslim terrorists. People who think killing all muslims to end this type of terrorism are misguided and wrong. Innocent, peaceful muslims should not be expected to die because some of their fellow followers have chosen to be terrorists.

Yes islam needs to change but so do the other major religions. Actually, the human need for religion needs to change. Religion has done more to separate people than bring them together--even people practicing the same religion are divided in their beliefs. Faith in God, the Holy Spirit, Supreme Being or even if a person believes there is a force overseeing this universe should bring people closer together instead of push us apart.
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Tad Auty Dec 10, 2007, 6:56am EST
Just to explain what Linda quoted from me.... I didnt say it muslims are routinely spat on, but i would confidently say that it has happened to alot of people. The nastiness doesnt always involve spitting, but particularly after 9/11, muslims were being treated very badly. Before that they had lived in the community for many many years without most aussies even knowing a thing about them! But with all of that talk of terrorists, mentioned in the same sentence as muslims. The war in christs name on islam. (isreal being a very popular topic again too) etc etc.
It is very distressing. I cdont believe in the literal return of Jesus, but if i did, i wouldnt want to be in the shoes of the christians who kill in Jesus name. I dont see any quotes in the bible from Jesus saying "love your enemy, oh except when he goes too far, then just kill him". Or "fight fire with fire". I know its illogical for us humans to not lower ourselves at times to the level of others, but i think thats why Jesus was so amazing.
With regards to the muslim issue, when moses led the people to the promised land, there were already people living there. Canaanites. But here in australia we also invaded & said we had "discovered" the country. Though aboriginals had lived here for over 40,000 years. (or for those who believe in the 6000 year old world, 5999 of them!)
It is about respect. And Jesus was a man who you could say treated all people well. Even the soldiers who hurt him. Those who doubted. Those who stole, whored, whatever. He saw them as equally valuable & deserving of a life. regardless of religion also.
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Tad Auty Dec 10, 2007, 7:15am EST
Teresa, whats the count on christians involved in war? Is the war in Iraq a muslim war or a christian war? And if Jesus was sitting next to you right now, what do you think he would have to say? Millions & millions of Muslims have been killed by various religious groups, the number growing. Does that make you feel better? Do you think it matters to Jesus how many of which variety is killed? I think not. I think he would prefer we all be MORE loving & MORE aware & make MORE effort to look into the pain that would cause someone to blow themselves up. Maybe if the 99% of normal healthy living muslims were respected as the integrous & honourable people that they are, their may not be a feeling from a few that they need to defend themselves by killing themselves & others. It is not religion that kills or causes war. It is power trippers who want to control others. Some people use money to do that. Some use politics. Some religion. It all comes from pain, fear & ignorance. Which Jesus believed forgiveness compassion & love was a cure for.
"Love one another as I have loved you"
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nancy h. Dec 10, 2007, 11:36am EST
Berf, bravo! I would give this a 10 if you allowed ratings, but on reading through many of the comments I can see why you don't.

Martin L., you said "On the other hand, a society that has been at war with the world, islam , and has contributed virtually nothing in the Sciences or human advancement in the past 500 years" ... and I have to argue with you on that point. Muslim civilization has contributed greatly to the sciences and human advancement.

It was Arabs (Muslims) who invented the lateen sail, without which there would have been absolutely no global exploration (think Columbus!).

It was Muslim civilization that gave us the concept of ZERO, paving the way for the decimal system which is used worldwide.

It was Muslim civilization that preserved the works of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Pythagoras etc. so that Western civilization ultimately had those works to build on.

It was Muslim civilization that managed to coexist with and respect Jews and other non-Muslims in Spain and elsewhere, all the while European "civilizations" were burning them at the stake or driving them out of their homelands.

And Muslims were responsible for so many of the world's architectural treasures - whose engineering was far advanced beyond Western civilizations - that it would take me days to list them all.

Now this is not a defense of current extremists, far from it. But I think we have to remember that Muslims never did and have not now cornered the market on religiously based brutality. Think of the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the attempted genocide against American Indians. Crucifixion as a method of execution is not a Muslim invention. Neither is the Iron Maiden, the rack and other toys our ancestors used against "The Other."

And I'm just getting started.
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Martin L. Dec 10, 2007, 3:51pm EST
Nancy, I said last 500 years. Waht advancemets have there been commensurate with 1.2 billion people. And I am not defending Christianity's past. I am talking about the present state of Islam.
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Martin L. Dec 10, 2007, 8:27pm EST
nancy, your logic illustrates the problem with people who think they are defending Islam. Because Christianity was more brutal in the past, that means that Islam is OK today? I don't think so. The problem with Islam is that too many Muslims behave badly under color of Islamic law, and too few Muslims do anything about that citing every excuse imaginable.

Do you think the Saudi interpretation of Islam is "extremist" ? What makes you an Islamic religious authority ? And even if you are an Islamic religious authority, there are a lot of Islamic authorities that disagree with you and are drowning you out.
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Tad Auty Dec 11, 2007, 7:54pm EST
Martin; Christianity was more brutal in the past? Lets just wait a while for the information to come out about what attrocities are CURRENTLY being committed in Jesus name.
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Martin L. Dec 11, 2007, 9:08pm EST
I'm waitng...........
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Martin L. Dec 11, 2007, 9:08pm EST
How long do we have to wait ?
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nancy h. Dec 13, 2007, 11:47am EST
Martin, I never said I was "defending Islam". I'm not defending Christianity either, nor any other organized religion. I've been talking about people and their accomplishments. I think your lumping all Muslims together and wishing them all dead says more about you than it does about Islam (or any other religion, for that matter).

Your question "Because Christianity was more brutal in the past, that means that Islam is OK today?" makes no sense at all. I never said "Islam" is okay. I'm perfectly able to distinguish between religion in general and the people who practice it.

You're right, there are too many extremists and too many of their co-religionists who sit back and keep quiet. Let's start with Hitler, for instance. He was a devout Catholic. (And is 60 years way too "ancient" to be cited? I lived through that time, so it's pretty contemporary to me.)

I've never claimed to be an authority on any religion, but I have read the entire Quran. Have you? And if you have, what makes you think it's okay to cherry-pick isolated statements in any religion's holy book to "prove" that the religion's entire message has to be discounted?

Don't you know that ancient books can be and have been mistranslated? For instance, in the original Aramaic the book of Isaiah speaks of a "young woman" (not a "virgin"!) giving birth to a son and calling his name Emanuel. Does that mistranslation invalidate the whole of Christianity? No more than the mistranslation of the "72 virgins" passage in the Quran invalidates all of Islam. An expert translator recently released his finding that the word isn't "virgins" at all - it's "raisins" or perhaps "white grapes."
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Martin L. Dec 13, 2007, 6:50pm EST
Nancy, I am going to make a very terrible statement here, so forgive me, but here goes:

When the Islamists initiate the next 9-11 with a nuclear or radiological attack and that wreck havoc on everyone, including a major economic collapse, even if it is relatively temporary, the one good thing will be a certain Justice that fools will be experiencing the fruits of their foolishness.

OK, believe that the Islamic call for holy war is not a problem, and that all religions are "the same". Oh, and that Hitler was a "devout Catholic", which he was not of course, no one has ever said that.
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Martin L. Dec 13, 2007, 6:51pm EST
Oh, and Nanci, show me where I ever said Muslims should be killed ?
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Martin L. Dec 13, 2007, 6:56pm EST
Nancy, oh defender of Islam, you said you were "just warming up", about the myriad accomplishments of Islamic society in the last five hundred years. Does it take you that long to warm up ? I am waiting for all those accomplishments commensurate with 1.2 billion people sitting on much of the worlds wealth..


Waiting.........Or did you forget what you were going to say ?
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Lord Plye-Wood Dec 17, 2007, 1:24am EST
All the comments pro and con and BERF's original monologue are interesting to me in that they prove that superstition and religious biggotry doesn't end or begin in Mecca, or in Rome, on in Jerusalem or in Birmingham, Alabama, for that matter. "God's Chosen People," "Kill the Infidels!", Onward Christian soldiers!, yada, yada, yada.

The Founding Fathers were pretty naive thinking that "Freedom of Religion" could be written into the Constitution and mean something to everyone. Unfortunately, their "Freedom of Religion" meant "Freedom of Religion as we know it."

In answer to the writer who asked (in the words of that great philosopher and dope dealing hoodlum, Rodney King) "Can't we all just get along?", is, in a word, "NO." A quick review of human history proves this. We can't "get along." We can just live with eyes in the backs of our heads and never sleep. And remember, as soon as all the Islamists are dead, who's next? As a Jew, I have a sneaking suspiscion who it might be. After all, it's been tried many times before.

Trust no one when it comes to religion - yours or theirs.
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Chelsea R. Dec 18, 2007, 3:56am EST
I agree. Any religion's radical followers should not define the religion as a whole. great article.
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P L D. Dec 18, 2007, 5:39pm EST
Ellen, I so appreciate you and your patner's pespective.

The "us" vs. "them" mentality is leading to an ever expanding category of those labeled "them" by a militant group in an ever shrinking category labeled "us" -- and those looking for common ground are coralled into the middle only to be labeled "them" by one militant minority group or another.
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*Carol ~Bronx Southern Belle D. Dec 20, 2007, 4:04am EST
Way harsh dude!
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amanda c. Dec 21, 2007, 2:02pm EST
thats just crazy
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Nola L. Dec 21, 2007, 3:45pm EST
What's sad is that when I saw the title of this article, I thought "must have been written by a "Christian"." I believe it was Jesus who said you should clean up your own house before you can tell someone else how to run theirs. Christians are becoming as intollerant as any other religion. All religions have had people who were radical and made them look bad.
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Deborah D. Dec 22, 2007, 9:35pm EST
The title almost made me skip looking at anything else in this grouping.
But - I am glad I clicked thru to see it was an eye opening "flash survey" of what a huge array of anger and hatred there is out there in the name of a truly twisted interpretation of the Muslim faith.

I have met and worked with several Mulsims from a variety of nations, including the US, and learned a lot that makes me glad they were willing to answer questions.

My early, yet skewed view of Muslims was heavily influenced by the Iran hostage crisis and new reports of similar events ever since. As I have matured I have become more skeptical of anything the general news sources spout.

Thanks for making people THINK!
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Sue N. Dec 22, 2007, 11:03pm EST
I am a Christian. Am I a perfect Christian? Absolutely not! I will be the first to admit that I do not always live my life by God's word. But I DO believe in that word. My boyfriend is a Muslim. Is he a perfect Muslim? Absolutely not! HE would be the first to admit that he does not always live his life by God's word. But he DOES believe in that word. And make NO mistake about it, My God IS his God. There is ONLY ONE GOD. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
We are all God's children. And sometimes we act like children. We fight, we argue, we do not share our toys, or our countries. We get jealous when our sibling gets more attention than we do. We sulk, we act out our anger in ways that are not always productive. We point fingers, we call each other names, we place the blame on anyone other than ourselves. We ridicule, humiliate, threaten those that do not follow what we think as the right way. (remember high school? I know you do, so do not even attempt to say that is not relevant) We are all guilty of misconceptions, every last one of us. At one time or another in our lives, everyone of us has made a generalization about something, or someone. Whether or not it was expressed out loud is not the point. I've seen generalizations in these comments. I'm not judging anyone. It is not my place. I commend BERF for writing this article. I do not agree with everything in it but I commend anything that is written that provokes thought in people. It is obvious by the passionate comments that this has provoked a great deal of thought. BRAVO!
I am almost certain this is what was intended. It is only by thinking through a problem that a solution can be reached. It is only by thinking through a problem that we, as humans, can evolve into what we are meant to be.

Please do not read into these comments any more than what I meant them to be. I am merely expressing my thoughts as is everyone else posting here. These are my opinions and mine alone. I do not/cannot/will not impose them on anyone who does not first ask for them. And by posting your opinion here, you have opened a dialog. If you agree with my opinions, that's fine. If not, that's fine as well. My only intent with posting this is that someone will read it and think. That's all. Just think.

I wish you all the best in this holiday season and it is also my wish that the New Year brings all that you hope for, for you and yours.
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Jule's dreamin of a wonderfilled life for all research mode again Dec 27, 2007, 10:26pm EST
thanks for bringing this alarming fact to our attention
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Pepsie J. Dec 30, 2007, 11:08am EST
Please read my article "Tolerance" Thanks. This is so sad...
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Ellen B. Jan 6, 2008, 4:13am EST
that kind of hate is just unfathomable to me. and why is it if a radical muslim commits an act of violence- all of them are held responsible? its not that way with christians ( or at least not to that level)
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Michael I. Jan 25, 2008, 10:26am EST
This kind of ignorant hatred is unforgiveable. If that's a 'Christian' posting, then no thank you. I wonder just how much this idiot knows about Islam (or cares to find out). I wonder: if he had been standing next to the headless boy, would he think the same? If so, he sickens me still more.

As said elsewhere, I've seen political violence. 40 years later, it still echoes in my head - every day. The grinding of treads, the shouts of fury, the screaming of terror, and what had been a young man, his head now shattered.

The most 'Christian' people I've met on occasion have been Muslims. One I remember in particular: I was wandering aimlessly in the street after my now ex-wife's miscarriage and my own dismissal as a lecturer - for being disabled. He stopped beside me and looked startled. 'But every day,' he told me, 'I ask my god to find you work.' The idea that someone even cared made me almost collapse.
And my 'Christian' ex-colleagues? If they saw me anywhere in the street, they simply looked aside into the nearest shop window. Not a word of comfort or help.
It brings to mind, doesn't it, the Good Samaritan parable?
You can't hate en masse without yourself being detestable. I'd sooner not soil my eyesight by even looking at the original poster of this thread. He's made himself too far beneath me. Yet his sort, or not too different, run your foreign policy. Of Islam, they know nothing - and don't care about finding out.
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Michael I. Jan 25, 2008, 10:40am EST
Martin L, your comments have nauseated me - and my father has described the liberation of Belsen-Bergen, which he saw for himself. You come close.

Find out some facts and spout, if you can manage it, a little less bigotry. Your sort of loathing is no different from the extremists - by no means the majority - that you encourage by your ranting. Just go away. I've heard your sort before, just too often.
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Michael I. Jan 26, 2008, 1:20pm EST
Good people are only good if they hate evil. islam is evil. Therefore good people hate islam. If you do not hate islam, you are not good.

This is the usual false syllogism, favoured by shallow thinkers. It's sometimes phrased this way: I have a cat. My cat is black. Therefore any cat is black and what is black isn't a cat. So a white or a grey cat doesn't exist?

What you're saying, Martin L, is that to be good, one has to hate others (or particular others). Therefore, you define good as hatred - in some respects at least. You know, there's not much, in your way of thinking, separating you from the people who attacked New York. You display a depth of ignorance of Islam and its contribution to western civilisation that shows you for what you are. Where do we get the word 'algebra' - a vital concept in mathematics and science from? The first syllable ('al) gives it away. Likewise with almanac and alcohol (the use of ' before the 'a' indicates that, in Arabic (like in other Semitic languages), a word can't begin with a vowel. They have a sound ('aliph, written ') to support an opening vowel ('al is 'the').

You show as little notion of your own civilisation as of the Arabic. When an Italian philosopher/scientist proposed investigating any possible scientific basis to biblical miracles, he was sentenced to public strangling and burning. At the same time, Arabic scientists were devising chemical equations. And there was Giovanni Bruno - publicly burned for even suggesting there might be extra-terrestrial life. And the truly pathetic halfwit in Rome who refused a demonstration of Galileo's telescope. It was, he claimed, sure to be bewitched. And Galileo (1660s), deprived of a chance even to give his side of the argument, or face torture or worse (which wouldn't prove much, would it?) was sentenced to 'merciful' house arrest for life. He originally faced the death sentence. Now, quite an argument that would be, wouldn't it?

And so we have the 'enlightened' west. Your very keyboard demonstrates a numerical system imported from the Arabs. Even at the time of the Crusades, Arabic surgeons were most respected and valued. Martin L, at least try to think out an argument before posting ill-informed nonsense and hatred, which does you no favours. All you do is betray your own ignorance. Possibly the best answer for you, now from me, is Galileo's answer to the Vatican: 'Whatever you say, it's true.' (eppur si muove) Live with it, Martin, or simmer in hatred, whatever good that does you. That's your problem, a very real and harmful one - including to you.
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Michael I. Jan 26, 2008, 1:24pm EST
NB: For 'what is black is a cat' abpve. read 'what isn't black isn't a cat.' This false syllogism of yours is so tiresome.
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Michael I. Jan 28, 2008, 3:10pm EST
Still waiting, Martin. Can't - or won't - you answer me on my alleged logical failing? Fail to do so, and it's not my logic that's at fault.
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Vivian P. Feb 10, 2008, 4:11pm EST
why waste your time hating someone you think might be your enemy? Why lump one type of person as a whole anyway ? As surely as we talk about others this way we talk about our God in heaven also. Truthfuly there are alot of "Christians" who are as evil as some of these "Muslims" Remember James town ?? and so many others?
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Wally Enoch Feb 18, 2008, 10:50pm EST
Well done! Thank you.
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Rick McGirr Feb 23, 2008, 8:36am EST
Berf, thanks for a well-written response to extreme intolerance. A few comments...

Extremists of every sect would jam their version of the ultimate truth down peoples throats, even if it kills them. What victory is death?

The way to stop religious intolerance is not to give the world more of one religion in particular. Statements such as "What people need is more of the Lord in their lives", and other such hooey, show that there are many who just cannot see past their own little bubble.

Not to justify anyone's extremism, but if you accept that muslims are human beings, doesn't it make sense to then ask, what's making them so angry?

If your answer is "Jerusalem", or "Palestine", whoa, now there's a sizeable can of worms, but it's an example of groups of people excluding other groups to the maximum level imaginable, to the point where they actually want to exterminate the other side, like they were vermin instead of humans, and all over a scratchy little piece of land with lots of holes in it! What fools!

I wonder, would either side settle for New Jersey?

Just kidding, but sometimes a radical problem calls for ridiculous solutions...

A difficult part of the whole equation is people's desire for retribution, revenge, "justice", "making them pay", etc. People just have to drop that stuff. If justice is to be the standard, well, might as well convict and hang all of us. Revenge begets same. The personal satisfaction of seeing a blood oath through to its murderous end only ignites the same fire of hatred in another heart

Who will end this ancient hatred
Will the killing to an end
Who will swallow long injustice
And take the devil for a countryman?

We all have to learn to accept fellow humans as they are, the whole kaleidescope, not just the groups you favor or are similar to.

Missing brothers
Martyred fellows
Silent children in the ground
Could we but hear them
Would they not tell us
Time to lay God's rifle down
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mary J. Mar 6, 2008, 5:48am EST
Oh! My Lord

Can I apologize, cry and repent? So Sorry, can I say it? Would you accept it? I know that all of that is your punishment to us, because we disobey your orders. Forgive, have mercy with us. We can't stand this violence anymore; we can't stand this hatred anymore. Take us Lord up to you, judge us, punish us and sent us to your hell, but don't leave us to those people who don't know justice or mercy. Take us to you, even your hell not your heavens will be more merciful. At least, we will know what we have done in our life to be sent to hell. Enough, that's enough,

Peace is our belief…

The prophet of Islam said: "Whoever hurts a non Muslim, I shall be his "refers to non Muslim" complainant and for whoever I am a complainant, I shall ask for his right on the day of Resurrection." (Hadith)

He also said: "Whoever persecutes a non Muslim or demands work from him beyond his capacity or takes something from him with evil intentions, I shall be a complainant against him on the day of Resurrection."(Hadith)

Prophet Mohammed said: "One who hurts a non-Muslim, he hurts me and one who hurts me hurts God." (Hadith)

Qur'an says: "... and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." (16: 125)

Again the prophet said: "Whoever relieves a human being from a grief of this world, God will relieve him from a grief on the day of judgment." (Hadith)

The son of the governor of Egypt once slapped a native Christian when he had raced ahead of him. When the complaint was brought before Omar, the second Caliph, he ordered the son to be beaten by the Christian.
Omar said to the governor: "How could you make slaves of these people who had been born free?"

Qur'an says: "God does not forbid you, to act fairly towards those who have never fought you over religion nor have driven you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them." (60:8)

Qur'an says: "Do not argue with the people of the Book, unless it is in the politest manner."(29:46)

When Omar entered Jerusalem victoriously, he visited the Holy Church. When the Muslims prayer was due, the Christian Patriarch asked him to perform his prayer in the church. But Omar refused, saying: "I fear that once I have my prayer in this church, the coming generations of Muslims would say that in this place Omar had performed his prayer and therefore it has to be converted to a mosque. I want the church to remain a church."

Qur'an says about Jesus: "O' Mary! God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and the Here after, and one of those brought near to God." (3:45)

And about Moses, the Qur'an says: "Also mention in the Book Moses: For he was specially chosen. And he was a messenger and a prophet. And We called him from the right side of Mount (Sinai), and made him draw near to Us." (19:51-52)

Qur'an says: "This day, are all things good an pure made lawful to you. The food of the people of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. Lawful unto you in marriage are not only chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the people of the Book revealed before your time." (5:6)
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Dawn S. Apr 21, 2008, 12:18pm EDT
"Let's start with Hitler, for instance. He was a devout Catholic." by Nancy H.

A devout Catholic?

In Poland alone 881 Catholic priests were annihilated. In time many more priests would end up in concentration camps
Dachau concentration camp held the largest number of Catholic priests. According to the best estimate some 2,771 clergyman were inmates in Dachau. The largest number of clergyman were Catholic priests, seminarians, and lay brothers. A disproportionate number were the 1,780 Polish clergy, 780 of whom died in Dachau. Three thousand additional Polish priests were sent to other concentration camps. In addition, 780 priests died at Mauthausen, 300 at Sachsenhausen and 5,000 in Buchenwald. With the Nazi conquest of Western Europe, hundreds of priests were shot or shipped to concentration camps, many dying en route. Also many nuns were either imprisoned or shot.
Do a search on Catholics and other Christians in concentration camps. Many Christians of all denominations died.
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Dawn S. Apr 21, 2008, 12:57pm EDT
BTW guys, I am proud to call Mary J my friend. Although I am Catholic and she Muslim we continually find common ground in our beliefs and discussions. We look for this rather purposefully and it has fostered friendship. I am treated with kindness and respect, always, and I return it. This is as it should be. Blanket hatred is never the answer.
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