This is the fourth in a series of conversations with my imaginary friend Al.
Here are the links for the first three:
Al stopped by for lunch yesterday. As usual, we started with a cold one, accompanied by family news and discussion of world and local events. By the time we were refilling our glasses, though, the discussion had turned to a common theme. Al is a devout Christian, and I am an atheist. We remain good friends because we respect each others’ views, and we never let the heat of the discussion overwhelm our friendship.
Al was on an Intelligent Design theme, haranguing me about the improbability of the “perfect” conditions for life on the earth. The earth's temperature straddles the melting point of ice, making aquatic life possible…just the right combination of elements to produce life, including an abundance of carbon. The human body requires 27 essential elements which just happen to all be present in sufficient quantities, etc. He hammered home his main point: How could this have occurred as a result of random processes? Only the hand of a divine designer could have constructed such a perfect place for human life.
I countered that our very existence showed that conditions for our particular form of life could develop. How many other universes had developed devoid of life, or with radically different life forms? We would never know. But our existence did not mandate the intervention of a Creator. Neither did it preclude His existence. We simply do not have enough information to draw a conclusion.
I pointed out, though, that given a hypothesis that A exists, with no evidence to support A’s existence, the burden of proof should fall on the hypothesizer. A hypothesis should have some basis in logic or observed phenomena to suggest that it might be true. Otherwise, it is pure speculation. I noted that proof of A’s existence required only a single event to prove its truth, but the converse is not true. It is virtually impossible to prove the non-existence of A. In the case of God, it would be necessary to examine every infinitesimal space in the Cosmos with a God Detector before His non-existence could be proven. Given a total lack of evidence supporting the existence of A…or God…I tended to be a skeptic.
Midway through our second beer, I served our lunch, a salad and some delicious sandwiches of my own design, consisting of Limburger cheese, anchovies and crisp slices of rutabaga, on pumpernickel bread.
We continued our discussion as we ate, and afterwards over coffee. When Al finally left in mid-afternoon, I was starting to feel a little woozy. That sandwich wasn’t sitting very happily on my stomach. So, I decided to take a nap, and I had the strangest dream…
I dreamed that I was sitting in a bar on the waterfront in Cape Town, South Africa, drinking a beer and watching the late afternoon sunlight fade on Table Mountain. Suddenly, a very attractive young lady slid onto the bar stool next to me, smiled and struck up a conversation.
Now, I am on the shady side of seventy years old, so I didn’t think she was looking for romance, but…those instincts never die, and I had some fleeting visions of grandeur.
I noticed that she was pretty animated about something, and I asked her what was so exciting. She replied that she had just come from a very inspiring service at her church. Just to make conversation, I asked her what denomination of church she attended.
“I belong to a very unique church called Brevision.”
“Never heard of it,” I said. “Tell me about it. What does the name mean?”
She smiled happily and explained, “The name is derived from Brevibacterium linens, the bacterium that is used to make Limburger cheese. The central belief of our church is that Pluto is made of Limburger cheese. ”
Now I pride myself on being a pretty cool guy, not easily bamboozled. My first thought was that she was pulling my leg, but her expression, deadly serious and intense, kept me from laughing out loud.
“Pluto?” I bleated.
“Yes. You know, the smallest and farthest planet.”
“Ex-planet,” I corrected, trying to recover a little ground. “It has been downgraded to dwarf planet.”
An expression of annoyance crossed her flawless face. “Yes, we found that rather demeaning, but we have come to terms with it.”
“We?” I asked weakly, as I tried desperately to hold up my end of this bizarre conversation.
“Our church members. Pluto is the center of the Universe. It’s terrible that the International Astronomical Union doesn’t even recognize its importance.”
“How many members does your church have?” I asked, struggling gamely to keep it going.
“It varies. Twelve to fifteen. At the moment we are down to twelve.”
It was time to make some kind of move here. “Why do you think Pluto is made of Limburger cheese?”
“We don’t think it is. We know it is.”
“But how can you know that? Nobody has ever been there, and we have only faint and blurry images.”
“We just know,” she said, smiling an incandescent smile that made me wish I were forty or fifty years younger.
“Look,” I said. “Limburger cheese is made from cow’s milk. I think it is highly unlikely that there are cows on Pluto. So it seems to me that it is also highly unlikely that there is any Limburger cheese there.
She looked at me as if I were a child and said very condescendingly, “You must be a scientist. Your thoughts and logic are all based on your experiences here on earth. Limburger cheese is just a bunch of chemicals, and the Creator could easily make all of it that he wanted.”
“Creator? What Creator?”
Now she was eyeing me like I was an idiot.
“God, of course.”
Now I was really confused! How did we get from Limburger cheese to God?
“You think that God exists?”
She looked me and blinked. “How else can you explain all that Limburger cheese?”


Comments: 39
In light of the evidence, I wonder why creationists can't accept natural selection, the driver for evolutionary change, because NS doesn't mean they have to give up God. Natural selection implies a force, an energy, a spirit, which they could attribute to God. One lecturer I heard paraphrased Genesis 1 in the Bible, "In the beginning, God said, 'Let there be evolution.' "
I suspect creationists are afraid evolution through natural selection suggests that God isn't as personal and directly involved in human endeavors. I think evolution through NS suggests that the scepter has been passed to humans. God would rather have humans as a partner in creation than groveling and servile and passive.
I got the idea for this piece when I was out walking yesterday, and wrote it in an hour last night. It's supposed to be funny and entertaining, but it sure hasn't got much response so far. Oh well. I had fun writing it.
The Christian God, as you say, is very "hands on." The idea of God creating Heaven and Earth, and then just standing back to see what happens is quite a different view...like the deism of Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and others who founded our country. Fundamentalist Christians would never accept that, and that is why they reject the idea of evolution and natural selection.
There is a Belgian Restaurant on the waterfront in Cape Town that I had in mind when I wrote this. Can't remember the name of it right now, but I have a picture of it somewhere...
I would have commented earlier, but I just got in from a visit to Pike Street Market in Seattle. Had lunch in Cutter's with Elliott Bay nearby.
What I don't understand in the debate over "proof" of God's existance is why anyone bothers. Christians go through a logic very much like your delightful piece above, when it all boils down to "you believe it or you don't". If you do, then no argument will sway that belief. If you don't, there are no facts or testable evidence in its favor, so there's nothing to cause you to believe.
BTW, I just started Hitchens' new book, "God is not Great". I've seen him on TV and find him to be an arrogant sob, but I am enjoying reading in print so many of the same issues I've wondered about.
Answers run along the lines of, "Well, he just did!"
I wrote this piece just for the fun of it. Not in hopes of changing anyone's mind.
Definitely! Let there be beer!
I really feel you should consider the possibility that at least some folks are NOT responding to wishful thoughts, or cuddly feelings, in their convictions about God's existence. I certainly am not. I was a "strong" agnostic", well grounded in scientific principles and methods (for a civilian), when things began to take a rather surprising turn. What I experienced was observed carefully, and with a fully skeptical mind, and blaring warnings on occasion from my "pragmatic" side, which I never hesitated to entertain. I really did NOT want to be self deluded or indoctrinated into acceptance of a good spiel.
It is somewhat disturbing to be spoken of as irrational or being gullible, when it two months of ongoing inexplicable events to get me to quit denying what I was witnessing. I may be wrong, but I'm not easy.
Anyway, good article.
Why don't you write an article describing the events that led you to your beliefs?
Or if you have already done so, post a link.
Jerry...Peanuts for sure, and I love those big kosher dills!
I did write such an article a while back.
Thanks for asking.
Gary, I put the big bang into evolution. I see creation and evolution happening in several phases: astro, which includes the big bang, geological, biologic and noetic (mind), which probably has multiple phases, such as self-awareness and culture. Beer enters into the biologic and noetic phases.
; )
Thank you for the enlightenment. I also count the big bang as a node point. It seems that all our mathematically based theories reach infinity there. So having a being start the whole thing there is as believeable to me as the concept that there was no gravity or any other law of physics.
And I'm glad you acknowledge beer.
That's funny, you accept the universe we see started from a singularity, basically nothing, and find the possability that this could be an indication that a Being created it unbelievable. Sometimes I get kinda confused by people's use of logic, it seems kinda self defined often.
If I bend my conceptions a bit, I could accept such a metaphoric explanation of the actual "stuff" which God brought into being. Other ways are also plausible for describing the deal, but Yes, it's all from God, and in a fundamental way, it is God in that universe. I believe He is more than that, of course, and don't believe this Creation in any significant way "diminishes" God, but as you say, to each his own, eh?
I've taken the cable car to the top of Table Mountain twice, Ruth, most recently in May of this year. The weather was only semi-cooperative. Part of the city was clear, the rest obscured by fog and clouds. It's still a breathtaking view, though.
The sandwich was a figment of my imagination. I tried to make it fairly nauseating, actually, just for fun. I hate anchovies, of course Limburger smells like rotted meat, and most people don't like rutabagas. The pumpernickel was just an extra embellishment.
I think you're right, though about the gas potential.
Chive...it's enough to make your eyes water...onions too.
I think there is room for the coexistence of religion and science, as long as neither one tries to impose its beliefs on the other. Religion should stay out of science...and vice versa.
The problem...sigh...is people. And politics.
But I LOVE the idea that Pluto is made of Limburg Cheese (which is awful, though I love most cheese, and which SHOULD STAY ON PLUTO!! That way we would never have to smell it again!!)
So thanks for the fish and smelly cheese tale.
Still smiling here in cold Nampa, Idaho as I visit with my siter-in-law.
HAHA! Thanks for the compliment, comparing me to Douglas Adams! I only wish I could do something like the "Hitchiker."