Intestines, teeth, and enzymes...Body Talk

I had never contemplated the intestinal tract and it seemed particularly interesting.

Great questions, Viv. I'll be back with the answer soon. Work calls. :-P

Turkey soup is waiting...oh heck, I'll eat and then read the gruesome news.

Interesting question. One of our sons is vegetarian, the other two most decidedly not. I'll come back later to ead Jamie's answers.

OH one more:

Regarding blood pH and the body stripping calcium from the bones to neutralize the acid in...trying to recall, my notes are not available, anyway this accounts for the higher rate of osteoporous in western/afflulent cultures or so he concluded.

Shoot! Something acidic in meat?

Length of intestinal tract. Carnivores have very short intestinal tracts. Herbivores have large intestinal tracts with huge cecums. We are somewhere in between (fairly long), but our cecum is tiny and has shriveled into an appendix. (why does this sound familiar...) Also, herbivores have a plethora of normal intestinal flora (bacteria) that digest cellulose. These bacteria live in the (gasp!) cecum. Humans don't have the cecum or those varieties of bacteria. Our digestive system is not designed to digest what most herbivores eat and that's grass or other low nutrient plants. Our early ancestors ate mostly fruit. It is theorized that the reason primates see in more colors than other mammals is because we needed to distinguish between ripe fruits and other vegetation for edible foodsources. So we are adapted to eat ripe fruit - for the most part. (oh, and meat) Wait, I deviated from the question. Our intestinal tract is comparable to other ominivores. Longer to digest the vegetation we do eat, but without the huge cecum necessary for digestion of plant matter.

It makes sense that carnivores don't have starch digesting enzymes in their mouths. They eat little starch, but does that make it a herbivore trait? Does it matter, since omnivores eat plant starch and meat?

Teeth. We have tearing teeth (in the front) and chewing teeth (molars). We need more grinding teeth than tearing teeth because it is more difficult to break down tough plant material than meat. We use our molars to chew the meat too, obviously. Many herbivores have teeth which grow continually, not the pattern of one set comes in, and a second set emerges later as seen in humans. That's more of a carnivore trait, but not exclusively. Our teeth obviously do not grow continually though.

Acids in meat? Is he talking about the formation of ammonia when proteins are deaminated? Proteins make bases, not acids. These are converted into urea which is excreted in the urine. Calcium is not a buffer for blood pH. Was it phosphate perhaps? Well, hate to tell him, but there is no mechanism I know of to activate osteoclasts in the bone to break down bone material to release phosphate. There is plenty of phosphate in the body without breaking down bone.

I think you are dealing with a hack, Vivian. People who CHOOSE to be vegetarians are free to do so, but I'll take my steak medium well, thank you very much. If we weren't meant to like meat, we wouldn't enjoy the flavor. Ever try to feed a rabbit meat?

Not vegetarian, vegan. No animal products at all. No meat, dairy, leather, or whatever else you could use that once was part of an animal.

The cecum is the key to the intestinal tract- knew there was something reasonable, but of course I forgot about it. The enzymes were not surprising. Very interesting, thanks.

Now that's really stupid, Vivian. What does he think comes out of the mammary glands? Spinach bisque?

LOL. But cow milk is for baby cows, not chimpanzee babies or giraffe babies- loosely quoted.

We watched 4-5 film showing conditions in the poultry, dairy and cattle industries. The part that people really commented on were the dolphin hunts in Japan. Granted eviscerating live animals is a bit hard-core, but people should be aware that food doesn't come in little celophane packages.

Maybe we could get Sy to way in on the evidence that cattle emissions (manure) creates more global warming than cars in America.

Vivian

My view is that the Vegans are akin to creationists. They have a religious view that they try to buttress with science, but it is pseudoscience at best. Humans are omnivores, period. Jamie was right about starting with fruits, and then grains, nuts, insects, anything except the most abundant food source - cellulose like leaves and grass. We dont have the enzyme or the systems to convert cellulose to sugar.

As human brains grew in size and capability, the energy requirements for the brain also grew. Thinking consumes as much calories for a human as a long walk. Eating meat is a great way to get high quality protein and keep the brain supplied.

BTW did your speaker dwell on the fact that humans do not produce several of the essential amino acids needed for life, and that these are found only in some beans and nuts, and of course in meat?

The argument for a Vegan life based on some fantasy of human evolution is nonsense. I have nothing to say against a religious view that one should not harm animals. But it is a religious view, and has no scientific standing. It is also a view I dont happen to share. Ill join Jamie at the steak house. Make mine rare!!

What about the claim of methane released via manure being greater than exhaust emissions in America Sy.

No argument.

That one is a joke Viv. Just not true. Actually there is a whole stack of this merde. The corn we use for pigs could feed the world, meat causes cancer, heart disease and arthritis, milk causes headaches, dairy products are poisonous, and on and on. One can make up anything you like, post it on a web site, and have it quoted.

The truth is that the Vegan diet, if not monitored very carefully can be fatal, especially for children.

We are omnivores-- plain and simple omnivores. Our bodies require omega 3s for brain development and retinal development in our first stages of life....another words lots of fish. No, not olive oil, but fish. We also need plenty of fish for emotional needs. Lack of omega 3s means ADHD. In new studies low seratonin levels equates with low levels of omega 3s. Fish oil is great for depression especially in pregnancy and post pregnancy. I could go on and on, but as Sy pointed out, vegans are more like a cult, than anything based on science. Could be they're low on omega 3s.

Medium rare please.. baked potatoe w/cheese, bacon bits and sour cream.. and chives if you have them.. yummy.

Thanks Jamie!

Sy and Jamie have formed a science tag team. Let's wrestle! ;-)

Well, if those stooopid giraffes would "evolve" opposable thumbs and larger brains, they could domesticate some lions, milk them, pasturize the milk and put on savannah supermarket shelves. Yummmm. Lion milk.

And I have cut my personal CO2 emissions by not exercising. If everyone would pledge to stop exercising, increasing their respiratory rate, and emitting the excess CO2, I'm sure this would save us all from global warming.

See this is why I love Jamie, she has all the right answers less exercise!

I'm thinking the giraffes might have a problem milking the lions without passing out- long neck and insufficient blood pressure and all that ;)

BTW I'm not vegan or vegetarian, just trying to adequately/rationally dissect the argument. Though I could give up meat- dairy (I love cheese) would be my Achilles tendon for a vegan way of life. And lobsters are just aquatic cockroaches so there is no chance I'm giving them up.

Vivian- Clearly, these highly evolved giraffes (be sure to pronounce as G-raffs) would put the lions up on racks so they could reach them without lowering their blood pressure to their brains. Of course they would have to evolve elbows that bend in the proper direction (opposite to hind limbs - yet another primate adaptation) so they could milk the lions effectively, but that's beside the point. Lions up on racks, yep.

I always wondered if boiled cockroaches taste like lobster. I'm not really anxious to try them to find out, but I do wonder.

Dr. Chapman: After my colonoscopy, the doctor said I had a very long colon (unfortunately worth zilch for bragging rights).

You said "Herbivores have large intestinal tracts" (I left off the other part because I think I've had a cecumectomy).

My question is: should I add more vegetables to my diet and, if I do, won't that make me an unwitting contributor to the global warming problem?

Concerned citizen

In this case, John, you'll be adding methane to the atmosphere. Methane, like carbon dioxide, is a green house gas, but methane is flammable. If you light the repetative expulsions of methane on fire, then it will be converted to CO2. So really, there is no "safe" disposal of methane for the environment. Burning the methane is fun, but beware of back drafts - potentially damaging to one's self. Of course, if you eat cow, or pig, those animals contribute to the methane in the atmosphere - and so I guess it is a trade off. Do you prefer to add more emissions yourself, or do you want livestock to do it for you?

Perhaps your very long colon is an indication that you should become a herbivore, however. But if your cecum has been removed, you've removed our favorite herbivore intestine part. Tough call, John. I suggest you eat what you like. :-) And pretend like you don't emit methane in polite company.

I love the "methane trade-off." I smell a column coming on.

I bet it doesn't smell very good. P. U....

This is where John gets all his material, lurking in the shadows of genuinely funny people- like Jamie, taking notes.

I take it wherever I find it.

Double checked my notes on the calcium depleting issue: animal proteins are acidic; therefore eating these proteins means the body needs to neutralize the acid. Here is where he claims that it leaches it from the bones since calcium is a base.

BTW isn't the stomach filled with hydrochloric acid to begin with?

Excellent John, I think we provide fine fodder for your columns :)

Okay. Realized I'd forgotten to come back and read the answer, and now I am giggling happily, much to my omnivore dog's consternation.

Oh, wow, I learn something new everyday! What a fascinating and hilarious discourse here!

I love fish, but I gotta have my steak and eat it too.

"The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind." - Bob Dylan

" animal proteins are acidic; therefore eating these proteins means the body needs to neutralize the acid. Here is where he claims that it leaches it from the bones since calcium is a base."

Is this part of what the Vegan from outer space said? There is nothing correct in that paragraph. Where did he get that stuff.? Proteins are not acidic. All proteins are made from the same set of 20 amino acids. But an amino acid, is not an acid, like hydrochloric acid. Sheesh. You would think these nuts would at least read an elementary text book. Leaching Calcium from bones???!! Afraid not.

Attention Vegans, and other assorted nutcases. We do actually really KNOW a few things about biochemistry and cell biology and physiology, which means that some things are true, and others are false. It is not a matter of opinion, just as whether or not the Earth is round is no longer a matter of opinion.

Its too bad that these people get a forum to speak falsehoods. Im afraid to ask what else he said. Maybe he was suffering from insufficient nutrition. He would feel better after eating a bacon cheeseburger.

Well, Sy's got me covered. Thanks for the tag in, partner.

Calcium is an ION, not a base. A base is something that takes up extra hydrogen ions. Because hydrogen ions are +1 and Calcium are +2 ions. 1 + 2 = 3+ (not zero!), um no, the chemistry/math don't add up. He's probably thinking about calcium carbonate (Tums) neutralizing stomach acid. Well, stooopido, it's the carbonate that neutralizes the acid, not the calcium.

Yeah, this guy definately needs a bacon cheeseburger. And a glass of fresh lion's milk.

I appreciate your comment and am reciprictating in this way to get caught up for the Christmas season, so you will all get points you deserve, back to normal as soon as I catch up, thanks Elsie

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