I posted this for no other reason than to conduct a sort of "survey" of what people think and feel, how they think and feel about it, and why they think and feel that way.
Although I have asked several questions below, you don't have to necessarily go down the list and answer every last one of them, one by one.
If you like, you can just write a kind of "all-encompassing" comment that addresses whichever issues you feel most strongly about. Or you can write separate comments dealing with each question. Respond in any way you wish. It is up to you.
1. Is the Bible absolutely 100 percent without errors or mistakes??
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says??
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself??
4. Is the Bible historically accurate??
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described??
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased??
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people??
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda??
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today??
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible??
I will stop at ten questions, though I could easily ask many, many more.
Feel free to respond with as many comments or with as long a comment as you wish.
Express yourself and don't be afraid to explain all you think and feel about these questions or about the thoughts and feelings which prompt your answers to them.
Thanks everybody!!!!!


Comments: 87
6 I don't know what that means.
7 & 8 you are kidding me right??
9 It always has been!
10 No way!
is up, Little Feather is now 10 yrs old Spirit Crow is 12.
She is having dreams about the tragic fire that took her
family from her. Please view this for me I'm very sure you
will enjoy this as much as the others. Thank you
I will make it a point to read and comment "Bluebonnets of Texas"--Thanks
Betty-----Thank you very much. I appreciate the time and thought you put into your comment. I also appreciate what you are trying to say. Not only can a person not fully "prove" there is a God, they should not be required to do so. Those who believe in the reality of God carry the "proof" within themselves.---Thanks for your comment.
1-6, yes. 9, yes. 7,8,10, no.
I am one of THOSE Christian, the fundamentalists who believe the Bible is God-breathed (inspired), wholly true, infallible, Word of God. I believe it is the one guidebook to God and Hi principles, that without it we are just all making up our own fables so that makes it essential to Christianity.
Having said that, I will say that whenever anything is translatee from one language to another, there wll be some difficulties. Therefore a multitude of English language translations with nuances in meaning--it is impossible to get the exact shade of meaning to make the leap from one language to another.
There is also a huge cultural aspect, makes that SEVERAL cultures, that make it difficult to convey some passages. Culture is an extremely important part of understanding language. There are often several layers of meaning to a text and a lot of metahor and symbolism is used at times. Prophets tried to describe things even they didn't understand, and sometimes language wasn't big enough to convey the spiritual visions. I DON'T believe there are contradictions; a lot of what appears to be so is due to cultural color, context, etc.
Ignorant or superstitious people? I think some of them were ignorant in cetain ways; they weren't all scolars from Jerusalem University. If we believe in supenatural and spiritual power, then why can't we believe that God "spoke" to people of varied backgrounds and had them write their portions in their own voice.
Hidden agenda? I don't think it's hidden at all!! It proclaims Jesus Christ and teaches about the One true God quite openly.
Cultural bias? I can understand why some people might want to think so. No, I don't think so. Notice no one gets off scott-free; no one is righteous, no matter what peole they are, except for Jesus Christ. The good news is that anyone from any culture or peole group can be "grafted into the vine" and "adopted" as sons and daughters of God when they accept the gift of Jesus' sacrifice. There is no race lines or culturally exempt in the family of God, even if the brothers and sisters fight with each other.
2. Pretty much
3. Pretty much
4. Many parts are not to be taken literally
5. No, many stories have a deeper spiritual meaning
6. Not really
7. No
8. I doubt it
9. It has been superseded by subsequent revelations such as the Qur'an (Koran)
10. It is already dead.
As far as do we need the Bible? Yes, more today than yesterday. I believe that what events took place in the Bible, actually happened. Even some Scientists now, are claiming that at least some of the events, that they have challenged, could of happened. Some of the sights in the earliest Biblical text that are mentioned, have been unearthed. Not all of the Bible can be proven as times , names and locations have changed since then. In some places, even the climate has changed, which makes it almost impossible to track. Some scholars even think they have an idea of where the Garden of Eden was located.
As far as proving if God exists. I think you can prove it to at least those who believe in God. Just look around us. Look at the seasons changing. The skys when they are blue. The stars at night. Listen , to a baby laugh. Look at the ray of hope in someones eyes, when we have done something good or kind for someone, who may be down on their luck. Who else, could of created human life? God, created this beautiful world, and he created us.
I think God is inside of all of us. It is up to us, since we have free will, to just listen to him. God is not going to force us to come to him, but if we ever need him, his door is always open to us. All we have to do is ask.
Thomas----No, you did not make me angry. I wrote this article with the belief that everyone has the right to think and feel however they wish. Your opinions and your honesty were exactly what I was asking for. Thanks again.
However, I can't help asking: "Don't really need it--or don't really WANT it?"
Many Christians may now believe in evolution! and if that was the beginning then I believe that everything comes from the Almighty. Our human minds are so inhibited that we cannot and never will until the end of time understand the power of the Almighty.
I believe without question. We are miracles, made in the image of God. Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. He will help us to understand His Word, the Holy Bible. Amen
God could explain something to a person so clearly and so precisely that no one could possibly get it wrong----and human beings would still get it wrong.
2.No
3-No
4-No
5-No
6-Not sure what you mean.
7-No
8-No
9-What do you mean by reliable
10-Yes
The Hebrew part of the Bible contains what I call camp fire stories that were never intended to be historical but rather to help explain things not well understood. When you don't understand stuff, you assign it to God. Other parts of the old testament contain cultural stories that were, again told around the camp fire, that were aggrandized for emphasis – just as story telling does today. Others document social norms – "the law of Moses," for example. These are probably pretty accurate, but probably changed over time. Other parts of the Old Testament are records of arguments that took place in the culture. These are the prophets. If you read the prophets carefully, you will find that those written at about the same time are arguing against each other – The period following the exile is a good example.
The gospels of the New Testament were actually liturgies used with worship. Mark being the first written, then Matthew, Mark and Luke. We know this because Matthew contains much of Mark, etc. We know they were used as liturgy because they accurately follow the Jewish liturgical year, and there is no other way to explain why all of the miracle stories are bunched together, for example. We know that liturgy is not intended to be historically accurate but rather to convey the essence of meaning. And, it is this very point that makes the Bible still meaningful today – if it is used properly. The Bible can be an important source of meaning. But, it is not essential for the survival of Christianity. Christianity is based (or should be) on the message of Jesus, not on the Jesus story. The message is that God loves us unconditionally and that we are to love one another in the same way – without judgment and with a willingness to forgive endlessly. You don't need a Bible to convey that message. In fact I thing Christianity would be better off without the Bible, because so many people get hung up on it. With the four Gospels being liturgy, I'm sure the liturgy changed over time to meet the needs of the people as those needs changed. It would be an interesting exercise to imagine how those liturgies would have changed up through today if they had not been canonized. Also, when Jesus was preparing his disciples for his departure, he didn't say, Don't worry, I'll leave an instruction book. No, he said, I'll leave you with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
sorry for the typos too! :)
Yes the Bible is without error or mistake? But this does not mean that man's interpretation is without error or mistake there is a decided difference.
Is the Bible infallible...again yes it is...but man's interpretation is not
Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself? Of course, how else can you explain that over the 400+ years in which it was inspired in men to record it, from all around the Middle East (as it is known today) that there is not one contradiction contained in it?? It's just not possible, even in modern day, books are never transcribed accurately, yet the Holy Bible has been faithfully transcribed down the ages (although some apocrypha ie books not inspired by God have been presented as such but were dismissed during the Apostolic Era when the Bible was formed into what we know now)
Is the Bible historically accurate...modern archaeological discoveries are proving more an more that the Bible is historically accurate, this also has confirmed the events described as well.
Is the Bible unfairly biased...no the Bible isn't, but man's interpretation often is. If the reader relies totally on God for revelation as to its meaning then the Bible is not biased at all.
Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people...on the contrary society, at the time the OT was recorded by writers inspired by God, was very superstitious. The men selected by God to record His words were largely uneducated, but were still able to accurately record God's Words. God revealed to man that the superstitions of the time (ie child sacrifice etc) were evil . Did the writers of the Bible have their own agenda? Absolutely not, if they did then it would have come through as contradiction in the Bible...remember many of the those who God used to transcribe His words never knew each other, nor had they often read what another had written...yet despite this there is NO contradiction to be found.
Is the Bible reliable today?? Yes, in fact many things that are happening today (eg the homosexuality issue etc) are found already in the Bible, there is nothing new. Of course man's modern inventions are not there, how could man in ancient OT times even conceive of a rocket that takes one to the moon...but man often misinterprets passages of the Bible by his own understanding instead of relying on God's revelation...this is where the problems come from. Could Christianity survive without the Bible...depends what is meant here...if it is meant could we survive without God's word, then no, no one could; but if it is meant could we survive without the actual writing, then yes, those who already have a personal relationship with God and with Jesus would still be able to receive God's word.
To me, the Bible is very much a part of my life but I do not consider myself religious. I worship God, and the Bible helps me discern God's word. I do not consider that anyone has it 'all together', anyone human that is. That is why it is important to always defer to God's word when there is a conflict of interpretation. God bless.
I'm a republican and I do not go to church anymore because of the in-fighting of the church which drove me away. Seems like power struggles are everywhere.
I do believe though and the Bible is very important to Christians.
As far as Christianity falling apart without the bible...well if someones faith rests only with paper binded in a book form then their faith isnt that great to begin with.
To me, the Bible is God's love letter to us. It is His instruction manual for our lives. If we read it faithfully and follow those instructions, life is so much better and easier.
Because human beings are fallible, everything they do is also. Some of the stories in the Bible were not even recorded in writing for hundreds of years after they occurred. Much of the Old Testament is based on oral tradition. Havng said that, I have no doubt, and say without equivocation, the Holy Spirit acts within each person who reads or hears the words, and opens their mind and heart to what God intends for the listener or reader to glean.
I have read much of the Bible several times over--my husband, probably about 6 or 7 times from start to finish--we both share new insights and revelations every single time we read it.
I'm going to post an devotional/article I wrote some time ago as soon as I finish typing this response to your questions. The Bible is The Book of Life. Everything we need to know about God, about how He intends for us to live, about how we can become better human beings, and how to help others do the same is contained within those pages.
If the Bible were the only book in the world, no matter how often it was read, man could never know everything contained within its pages, because we are changed every day we are alive, as so the words are new each time we read them.
Thanks for opening up this conversation! I'll be interested to read what others have to say.
Have a wonderful Sabbath and Love and Joy in all things.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. No
7. No
8. No
9. Yes
10. Yes
And I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if anyone is interested.
When some one asks me this one of my first thoughts is which bible are you talking about . Most if not all have been codified by the leaders of which ever view point you are following , what that means that a group of people sat down and decided which teachers and teaching were proper and which were not
The study of God's messages is very useful , but they are not all in any one book
There is no way to prove that it is ASSumed.
http://www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Great-about-Christianity/dp/1433204649
This is a GREAT book for both sides,..those who say it's all a bunch of crap,...well,...have fun debunking ,....and for those who believe,..it's your book of back-up facts....; o )
1) I believe the Bible is God inspired and I also believe there are mistakes, which occurred in the translations from Hebrew and Greek. Also, it was written by man.
2) Is it in fallible? Refer back to number 1. However the true Word of God is not infallible, interpretations however, are another story. How often has someone take one piece of scripture to make a point of what is right or wrong without taking into account what may have been written in other books of the Bible.
3) Literally the words of God? Again, I believe it is God inspired but man wrote the words and they have been translated several times over.
4) I do beleive the Bible is historically accurate
5) I do beleive every single event in the Bible happened, however the events were written by men and we have no way of knowing if it is an accurate description. What could be a minor detail, left out to the writer, could have been been profound to us today. Could other aspects of an event be embelished? certainly. I do enjoy history shows that try to explain how an event occurred, as if trying to take away the miracle of the event. To my knowledge, nobody has been able to prove or disprove anything.
6) I do not think it is unfairly biased. With regard to females and males, I believe it is an accurate description of the times and the roles each gender played in society.
7) The Bible was not written by superstitious or ignorant people.
8) I do not believe the writers of the books of the Bible had a hidden agenda. Their words were God inspired. However, when it was decided which books would appear in the Bible by a group of men in Turkey I believe there was a hidden agenda and more political reasons than faith
9) The Bible is a reliable book today. Oh yes. I can't tell you how many times I have read a certain passage and skimmed it, moving on. Then, at one point I will read that same passage again and because of circumstances in my life or simply because I was older it had a deeper meaning to me and something I needed to read at that point in my life.
10) Christianity would survive if the Bible was taken away from us. I am not sure Christianity would grow without the Bible because some people take much more from reading than being told. If we needed to rely on stories being told, handed down by generations, Christianity would continue, but there would not be as many followers.
6-8 no
9 yes
10 yes, but it would be tough. Christianity is about a relationship with God through the sacrifice Jesus His Son made for us, with the Holy Spirit living in uand guidi guiding us. But a relationship without the words of the other person is hard to maintain well. The Bible is
God speaking to us, telling us about Himself and why he made us and loves us and wants us to live. We need access to His message.
1-5: No way
6-8: definitely!
9: We can rely on it to mess up the thinking of thousands of people for years to come
10: Probably, as it's been my experience that most Christians don't read the Bible, but rather get their understanding of their religion from clergy and church groups and self-appointed moralists like Falwell, which is the reason their actions are so at odds with the book. (the Mahatma Ghandi famously noted: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.")
A good example is so-called Christian warriors fighting against abortion rights, even to the point of killing doctors. Read my "God Is Not Pro-Life" Gather article for concrete evidence that the anti-choice battle is the agenda of political groups, and is not based on anything from the Bible at all.
Want to *really* understand the Bible (or see if you already do?) Go to ffrf.org and click "quizzes" and take the "How Much Do You Really Know About The Bible|?" quiz.
Of course not. It was written by men over a period of many centuries, and translated several times. There's going to be errors just from that standpoint in continuity and word usage and so on.
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says??
No - the bible is a collection of once separate books that are meant to illustrate a faith - not be taken as a single cohesive literal word-for-word book of laws.
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself??
If I believed in God, I would believe that he had much better things to do than dictate to humans what to write down. I would, however, believe that perhaps they were 'inspired by' a higher power - in much the same way the Greeks had their muses and so on.
4. Is the Bible historically accurate??
In some places - where it is meant to be an actual history and not a parable, it is somewhat accurate. As accurate as any work written after an event can be - after all, every history is colored by the perspective and perceptions of the person writing it.
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described??
Again, no. Many stories of the bible are representative myths, or parables. And see number 4 for how history is written.
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased??
Of course it's biased, but unfairly? Not when you take it for what it is- a collection of works about the Christian faith. It's how people use it that becomes unfair.
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people??
No - they were writing about what they believed in. That doesn't make them superstitious or ignorant, they had a right to believe in it and share that belief with others.
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda??
It's not a hidden agenda - their purpose was to illustrate and spread their faith.
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today??
Again, it all depends on what you use it for. If you are a Christian, and you use it to learn about your faith and to show others the history and traditions of your faith when asked about it- that's great. If you use it to persecute people of differing beliefs, or to say that certain things are sins because the bible tells you so - then no.
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible??
Sure - they'd just have to rewrite something that talks about the history of the faith, and what the faith is like today and so on.
That depends on what you define as an error. If you mean 'is it the same as the original books were when they were first written'... well, there's been some revisions since then, by the Church, by kings, and by translators, so asking for godly perfection from mortal publishers is a bit much.
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says?
No more than the Pope is.
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself?
No more than the words of any televangelist or president are the words of God. Barring direct intervention by a divine being, most people are apt to claim that their personal agendas are God's will, and I don't think that the Bible is any different.
4. Is the Bible historically accurate?
Not perfectly; it's a book written by a select group of people. If I recall, the British historical record kept things like the legend of King Arthur as historical fact -- why? Because they were in the book, of course.
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described?
No. Although many of the events in the Bible happened, assuming they occurred as was described is somewhat like believing that an invasion of another country went exactly as depicted in a newspaper. You're going to get distortion of facts, and if there's enough control over information, you're going to get glorified prose instead of tactical strategy.
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased?
Sure. Most books are. If it weren't biased towards the writers, they wouldn't've written it.
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people?
No, it takes quite a bit of intelligence to write such a book and get people to believe in it. Was P. T. Barnum superstitious or ignorant just because he advertised Fiji mermaids?
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda?
Of course. The main, though not readily apparent, agenda of any religious work is to provide a moral compass for survival. Whether it's 'love thy fellow man (or he'll kill you)' or 'don't eat the unrefrigerated pork or you'll die' or 'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's (or he'll kill you)' or 'give unto the wife as she gives unto you (or you're going to have some serious problems)', there's plenty of advice within the Bible. (If you want to come up with a more sinister agenda, though, look toward the distributors of the Bible -- nothing gives you more power than declaring that there is a holy book and you're the only one allowed to read it.)
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today?
Actually, most Bibles are printed on that weird super-thin paper that only Bibles are printed on, so I don't know how reliable you'd call them. If you were a serious Bible-reading fanatic, I'd suspect they'd wear out sooner or later. I'd say it's fairly reliable as a religious text, however, as it's managed to function over the millenia with only a few upgrades and has yet to be replaced.
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible?
Possibly. If the Vatican abruptly came out with a declaration that the Bible was to be discarded, the world would not actually change; however, some Christians would likely accept this as a sign that the time of the Antichrist is nigh, Revelations is at hand, yadda yadda yadda. On the other hand, Christians seem to survive reliably without bibles every day, just as they did when nobody could afford one and few people could read. As long as you have faith in something, that's all you really need. The pretty book is just a tool.
I think a lot of it is spoken of only in parables, in an attempt to discribe some thing, like creation, god, miraculous events, etc...Like discribing god. Known as an invisiable force with attributes, that bring about, and sustain, life. A force which causes to become. The source. I think god is neither, male/HE nor female/SHE, but is the source from which both masuline, and femine traits resulted.
I believe god/the source/the cause, is not a WHO, but an it. A master/maker/mechanism. The laws of god are not super-natural, but all things in the natural. The cycles of the season, the orbits of the planets, the genetics, all the laws of nature, and gravitational forces. Natural. The word nature, and natural, mean the same thing. Covers all the laws of god. I think The laws of the 10 commandments and all the levitival laws, are man-made laws, as spoken of, and against, by Jesus, when he refferred to the "traditions of men" being taught, as though they were the laws of god.
I think the bible also contains a lot of physics in it, but many of the terms used for the different elements were given names like FAITH, HOPE, LOVE, WISDOM, Etc...Since the greatest of these was LOVE, and the bible says that god is love, it is refferring to a most central aspect of an element of life, creation, and the sustainment of it. God is probably, gravity.
Do we need the bible, today? No. But it is an interesting ancient thing. Mostly, I don't think we need the current day interrpretaion, of the bible stories. Mostly, I think we don't really need religion.
I would say it's not 100% percent without errors because it may not have been interpreted correctly, but it's pretty close.
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says??
Yes, as long as you know the meaning of the original Greek or Hebrew translation.
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself??
Yes, but again know you Greek and Hebrew.
4. Is the Bible historically accurate??
Yes I believe so.
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described??
Yes if you understand the original language.
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased??
I don't know quite what you mean but I will say no.
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people??
No
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda??
No
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today??
Yes
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible??
Yes because being a Christian is about a personal relationship with God.
I also agree with JoAnne D., Pastor Scott, http://www.pastormelissascott.com really helps you to understand the original words and the Bible is so much more clear when you know the real meaning of the original words.
9- Is the Bible reliable today?
It has never never never failed me. When I follow the teachings, I make decisions that can stand up to scrutiny. When I have questions, I always come away not only with the answer that is right but a fullness that i cannot explain.
10- Could Christianity survive without the bible?
What do you mean? It is. That is why the bulk of "Christianity" is so messed up. People decide what they believe and make the Bible fit THAT instead of going to the Bible to see what it says first.
The Bible is a book filled with God's wisdom and love for humanity. And his desire for us to discover that wisdom and for us to love him and each other.
Berf
2) Yes - without a standard of Truth there would be no truth at all. Whether other accept truth or not has no bearing on whether it is truth. Truth does not need the affirmation of humanity to validate it. But KNOWING the truth - that's the key that Jesus spoke of (John 8:32)
3) Yes
4) Yes. Time and time again the findings of archaeologists prove the accuracy of the Bible.
5) Jesus often taught it parables. Did those parables happen exactly as He told them? Probably not. Did He devise these parables as teaching tools as remembered? Without doubt.
6) Unfairly? No. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:26 of course. And it says "the world." Not a few or a handful or specific people. "The world". That is everyone - including you, the reader.
7) Some were ignorant in terms of education. Peter (source of Mark's Gospel as well as his epistles) & John were probably illiterate and had others writing their accounts and letters down, but that doesn't diminish the validity of their writings. A lot is made of the Bible being untrustworthy because it was written down by men. And yes, men are fallible. But the difference is that they didn't write in and of themselves - they wrote what the Holy Spirit guided them to write. As it says numerous places in the Bible, God can do anything. even if you question the validity of the Bible but believe in God, you must admit that if there's anything except evil that God cannot do, then that isn't God.
8) Nothing is hidden at all - it is very clear, especially if one doesn't try to cover up the meaning by explaining it away as a parable, a reference or a piece of literature.
9) Truth is truth no matter what or when.
10) It's doubtful that Christianity could've survived without the Bible. Christ used the Old Testament to teach and show the prophecies that He fulfilled. As far as the Ne Testament is concerned, Christianity has always been torn by those who misunderstand or would apply an alternate agenda. That was true even while Jesus Himself was alive and the source of numerous disciples leaving because of the teaching. Yes, there are those who are Christians in places where the Bible is illegal, but could they have been reached by people who didn't have the benefit of the Bible for study and direction?
There are a number of alternate theories in place here that need to be identified for edification.
For the Mormons: yes you do a lot of good, but show me in the Bible where it says God & Jesus are aliens from outer space. Jesus and ET are not the same. Nor is satan Jesus' brother but His adversary. Any other conclusion is in direct confrontation with everything the Bible teaches - so you CAN'T believe that the Bible is true. The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is a sales pitch to fool people into believing that you are Christians, but the crude facsimile of the real Jesus is not enough to make it so. Mormonism is a cult. Same with 7th Day Adventists, whose beliefs also directly contradict Scripture.
Those who would equate other gods with The One True God, let me ask you this: If Christ's atoning death was not necessary, then He came to earth & died for nothing. That would mean He wasted His time and potentially made a mistake. If He made a mistake, how can He be God?
Last - it's easy to hide behind one's own wall of cynicism and fear while hurling accusations and condemnation at the entire lot of Christianity for the actions of a few. Of course the fanatics like Fred Phelps who contradict Scripture in their teaching and those who bomb abortion clinics get the headlines, but they are the exception and not the rule. But do you do that with movies? If you go to the movie and it;s bad do you then assume that all movies mus t be like that one? Or restaurants - if you get a bad piece of steak at one restaurants does that automatically make all steaks bad? If not, why do you use that logic on Christianity? It is totally illogical and close minded by people who are usually the most offended by those two terms.
Another thing to add: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
God is a living God. His Word transcends the written words, which in the form of the paper book we call the Bible reflect as closely as possible God the Living Word.
When in faith we accept God as our Lord and our Savior, He places His living Spirit within us. Think of this as the wireless internet connection between us and God.
The Word of God calls the Spirit in us the Teacher, Comforter, Guide. Regardless of the paper version/translation/language of the Bible we own and read, the Spirit in us teaches us from it. The Bible is only a tool for our growth. That's why and how Christians can thrive in some places in the world where it is illegal to own and read Bibles.
The Word of God is necessary for a close relationship with God. That does not mean the Bible as a written book is necessary. If someone managed to outlaw every copy and translation of the Bible all over the world some day, the Word of God would still thrive.
I don't think the writers had a hidden agenda, however the bible has been translated and edited throughout the years... who is to say the translators and editors didn't add their part in.
The bible as with any form of media speaks to each person differently depending on where they are in their lives, their history and their culture. I think each person who reads it should take from it what resonates with them as that is something that they might have needed to learn or think of.
Being that I'm not christian I don't really know. Though I think if one relies on a book that heavily to "know what is right" isn't using a gift God has given them... their brain and mind.
That is just my opinion...
Stef
I just have a couple comments on your article, I don't have time to read all the comments so I apologize if this has been said before. I believe the bible is the true infallible word of God. I also believe that the mans interpretations and translations could very well be wrong. I also believe that there is a difference in what the bible reports and what the bible endorses. On one hand it is a history book and is reporting the events on the other it is telling you what God wants his children to do and these things may not be the same.
2. No.
3. Definitely not.
4. A little bit
5. No.
6. It's biased against women.
7. Kind of, but it was a different world.
8. No.
9. As reliable as anything by the brothers Grimm.
10. Maybe.
It would be great if someone could be truly inspired to incorporate many of our religious works and mabe find a way to end all this religious strife.
I have read many works from several diferent religions and when you get to the core of the meaning they are essentially the same. So why have so many people died over religion? I respect anyone for their own beliefs whether Buddist, Hindu, Moslem, Taoist, Jewish or even atheist (that is in itself a belief).
I feel that people need a spiritual guide and the appropriate guide it the one they chose. I can tell no one that they are wrong with the exception of those that condone harm to others.
marty
Did that answer your questions?
We are warned in the scriptures of those who would twist God's word and we are also assured that His word would stand to time indefinite at Isa. 40:8. As I believe someone already mentioned this, but there has also been a great many archaeological and historical findings that support the accuracy of the Bible.
Good post Berf, it's led to a very interesting and stimulating thread.
A cult is defined as "A religious group which denies the essential doctrines of Christianity." Mormons fit that definition, as do Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses and others. I use it without apology because it fits.
I'm sorry that you got duped into believing Mormonism. I pray that you will find your way away from that trap of the evil one wrapped in "Jesus Christ". I question whether you were truly born-again or not, but that is between you & the Father, not you & me. In the mean time I have been commissioned to expose these lies. I'll be glad to break it down for you.
1) You may not believe Jesus Himself is ET but according to "Pearl of Great Price" (pp. 34-35) and the Mormon Doctrine (p. 428), God resides near a star called Kolob. Elsewhere in the Mormon Doctrine (p. 328) it states that God used to be a man on another planet. This is repeated many places: by Joseph Smith in "Times and Seasons, Vol 5" (pp. 613-614); again by Orson Pratt in the "Journal of Discourses, Vol 2" on p. 345; and by Brigham Young - also in the "Journal of Discourses" - vol. 7 this time, on p. 333.
2) Where does it say Jesus & satan are not brothers? John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He have is ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON..." ONLY. That says everything. And is it the essence of salvation? YES! The ONLY way to heaven is through the grace of God - and that from believing that Jesus is who He said He was. "...I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6 God's grace is the ONLY answer. So yes, it is a big deal.
3) Halos, harps & others are the invention of artists, traditionally of the Roman Catholic faith. They have nothing to do with the concept of Heaven or attaining it. They are merely personal interpretations that take nothing away from nor add anything to the plan of salvation.
4) Sin is the state of humanity. If you don't believe that humanity is sinful, you don't believe that we need the atoning sacrifice of Christ. If you do believe that we need a savior, Jesus gives us the plan - and in the words of Paul, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast." - Eph. 2:8-9 In other words, the only way to Heaven is through faith in Jesus. No works, nothing else. This is directly refuted by Spencer Kimball who said, "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." ("Miracle of Forgiveness"). That position is also iterated in "Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1" where it says there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (p. 188).
5) Predestination could be true or not. It can be Biblically supported even though I don't personally believe it. Even those who believe in it are not exonerated from trusting God and making a profession of faith - it simply says that God always knew what we were going to do even before it happened. I see nothing inconsistent with that statement and the belief that God the Creator is everything. Of course it doesn't work if God is not really God - and that's where others have a problems when they invent their own gods.
6) Paul was one of the most learned men in the Fist Century church. Peter and John were fishermen who were probably illiterate. Nowhere does it say that one must have a college degree to be a pastor. However, that has become a standard in American society to ensure that we are not duped into hiring anyone who preaches without an understanding of the Word. It is not a requirement - simply a method of determining who is best equipped to lead. Salvation and the guidance of the Holy Spirit are the primary requirements for pastorship. Others are clearly outlined in 1 Timothy.
7) I think your perception is that Christians worship crosses. Instead it is a symbol of veneration because of the price Jesus paid for our sins. Paul again spoke of it in his first letter to Corinth - "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." We worship Jesus, not the cross. And Jesus is not on any cross around me - because Jesus was taken down before He was laid in the tomb & never got on it again. The empty cross is a symbol of victory over sin & death.
While I don't dispute your assertion that you love Jesus, I do dispute that you are honoring Him by following the extras such as the statements by Joseph Smith . Nothing except faith in Jesus is required for salvation. Not even baptism, which is a public symbol of obedience and not a Biblical requirement for Heaven. I know that my brothers & sisters in some denominations will disagree with that statement but I also hold by it Biblically.
So what else does the Mormon religion teach?
1) In the "Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8" on p. 155 it states,"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." In the Mormon Doctrine on p.547 it says,"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers". And the most inflaming comes from Joseph Fielding Smith in "Doctrines of Salvation" :"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" In other words, God came from His home planet near Kolob and physically had sexual relations with Mary. But the Bible talks about humanity's fallen state being caused by birth of seed vs. birth of Spirit. This directly refutes that and is eerily close to the tales of Greek and Roman mythology - it reduces Jesus to another myth like Hercules.
So I say without equivocation that because the Mormon doctrine violates scripture one CANNOT be both Christian AND Mormon - one MUST be one or the other. Besides, the "History of the Church, 4:461" says that the Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible. To a Christian, the Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God. How can anything be more correct than that? I pray that if you were truly saved that the Holy Spirit will guide you away from the lies of Mormonism and back to the truth of Christianity. If not, I pray that the Spirit will stir your heart and show you the path to salvation. Either way, I hold nothing against you personally - it is your soul that hangs in the balance and I pray that you will make the right choice. Because it is your choice: Jesus or Mormonism? By definition you can't choose both.
lives. The psalms, book of wisdom, letters are timeless, even if the examples seem dated.
I think the bible is a collection of some stories, that carry some information,
historical, some scientific, some law/traditions, of a particular family/people/group.
The stories put together, in writing, are stories very, very much older than the
writings, as these stories were passed down for generations, orally.
I believe in a higher power but feel that each person interprets that power in relationship to their own lives. The human body and the world we live in are too complex to have happened by accident. That does not mean the stories in the Bible are the "Truth, the Whole Truth" .
Each of the major religions has their own book of stories and lessons that their religious leaders use to try and guide their people with and each of those books was written by men inspired by their own personal spiritual beliefs.
people who claim treat the bible as absolute truth very often only follow those parts of the bible that fit their world view. Too many try and twist the words around to suit their favorite prejudices and pet peeves. Whether their agenda is anti-gay, anti- abortion, anti-Islamic etc they will try and twist the words in the bible around to support their claims. The same books of the bible can be read by five different people and will result in five different interpretations.
As far as relevance, I think it provides a look at the workings of the minds of men, not any particular God being.
In fact I think Dorothy H. probably put into words a much more coherent description of my own personal belief system so I will stop here and refer you to her comment which, as I say, reflects much of what I believe as well.
Even my biology proff in college told me that at conferences where scientists and creationists debated, more scientists than creationists believed God's word on how the human body was created. When heathy, everything works to perfectly and to exact to be created in any other way. Studying the biology of the human body is an amazing eye opener of the work of God. It is hard to Not believe. To ask if Christianity could survive w/o the Bible is really a moot point. We have had it for so long, we will never be w/o it.Most of us know all or most of it and can pass it down generation after generation. Christianity is not based on the Bible, it is based on faith. Faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Faith and Love can be taught w/o the Bible. that is simply a teaching tool and a direction book of how we should live our lives as well as the stories of our history. Just as Ancesteral(sp?) history is important for us all to understand our past so is reading the Bible.I hope my rambling wasn't confusing, I'm tired.
I'm not offended. If you will note I mentioned that your salvation is between you & God, not between you & me. Having said that, I also said that I pray that you will see the truth about your situation. One of the earmarks of cults is the way members will defend indefensible beliefs in order to justify their positions despite evidence to the contrary. It is very similar to the denial of an alcoholic, a subject with which I am most familiar.
There is no checklist for salvation - there is only one thing required: faith that Jesus, the only true Son of God and second person of the Trinity, came to earth from Heaven to live as a man so that He could teach and then be the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. That's it - nothing else.
As to whether God is just or not and would or could accept evil, that's the hard part. Everyone wants a big spiritual grandfather in Heaven who would never disagree or correct us. Btu that's not what real fathers do - they show their love through discipline and correction. And sometimes the consequences are unpleasant but they are necessary to save us from worse consequences. No one likes it, but that is simply the reality of it.
I too have a degree in science - electronics - and am subject to the questions & ridicule of my primarily agnostic & atheistic colleagues. But I don't wait two years - I check my beliefs every morning when I get up because that was what I was instructed to do. And every day I ask God to show me what I need, and to verify that I am dong the right thing in following Him. I spent the majority of my adult life away from God - I was the same as my colleagues. But the God that I describe has saved my life - physically, more than once - and the evidence I have found over the past 12 years has been more than adequate to show me the error of my previous ways.
I offer no judgment - judgment is God's alone. In this word of choices, we can be sincerer while being sincerely wrong. Th Bible provides the path to God. Anything that contradicts the Bible is just a tool of satan that allows him to mislead people and steal souls from God.
A woman died and went to Heaven. Upon her arrival she was told that before entering all souls first had to visit hell to see what they had overcome. When they arrived, she saw that hell was a great banquet hall. Everyone was seated at tables full of delicious foods that were piled high. When she looked closer, she saw that everyone also had a fork attached to a glove on one had and a spoon attached to a glove on the other hand. The shafts of the utensils were about 2 1/2 feet long - so they could reach the food but could not get it into their mouths. They all cried aloud in anguish. The woman saw what has happening and asked to leave. The sounds of anguish and anger were nearly too much for her to bear. Her guide agreed and took her to Heaven. She saw surprised at first, because Heaven was identical - same banquet hall, same foods, even the same utensils. The difference was that instead of feeling the anguish of being unable to feed themselves, everyone enjoyed the feast - as they fed each other.
Christians should reach out in love and caring to those around us. That is what I attempt to do - it the mandate passed down by Jesus Himself. There is no judgment in that - only genuine concern.
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says?? I do not understand what that means.
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself?? I assume so
4. Is the Bible historically accurate?? I will say yes
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described?? I will assume so
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased?? no
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people?? I don't think so
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda?? I don't think so
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today?? yes it actually relates very much so.
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible?? NO
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says?? Depends on one's beliefs. However, if one wants to live like God envisioned, one should live as close to the words and stories in the Bibles as possible.
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself?? No. God did not write the Bible himself. It is based on the stories told to others or from witness accounts of what happened.
4. Is the Bible historically accurate?? I don't know.
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described?? I'm sure the events happened, but over the years stories tend to be "larger than life" at times. I'm sure there were exaggerations. But the events are similar to what has been printed.
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased?? I don't believe so, no.
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people?? No, I don't believe so. I believe it was written by strict followers of Christ. Those who believed in him and what he was teaching. I believe a lot of those people were "outcasts" of society for believing something out of the norm for that period of time.
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda?? No - I believe they just wanted to pass the stories along to other generations.
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today?? The Bible is still reliable - however, society has changed so much that the stories should be updated so that children, teens and young adults could better understand and apply the stories to their lives today.
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible?? Yes.
I'm not sure Christianity could survive without the Bible--at least not in today's culture. I think that the stories that make God seem "mean" would never get told until we had a watered-down version of universalism that said God loves everyone and will welcome us all into heaven. I think we need to be reminded that He is a God of love, but also an incredibly terrifying and holy God.
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says?? Depends what you mean by infallible. If I try to explain rocket science to a three-year-old, my analogies might be flawed, but the message I try to get across will be true. The Bible tells about God, and God is beyond anything human words can express.
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself?? If I write what my father tells me, the words are mine and his. I don't think God's a dictator, in any sense of the word.
4. Is the Bible historically accurate?? Amazingly, incredibly so. Though our interpretations of it frequently need updating in the light of new discoveries.
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described?? It was seen as described, but human witnesses are notoriously human.
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased?? No, but our reading of it often is.
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people?? They were incredibly clever if it was, or how did they manage to write a unique creation story that (if you ignore currently popular American interpretation) describes the discoveries of modern science so accurately.
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda?? It wasn't and isn't hidden.
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today?? Yes.
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible?? We would re-collect the same writings from the best historical originals. Except, that's what our modern translators do today anyway.
2. Is the Bible infallible in all that it says?? ABSOLUTELY!
3. Is the Bible literally the words of God Himself?? The bible is "God Breathed", yes His words spoken into the hearts of the writers
4. Is the Bible historically accurate?? ABSOLUTELY
5. Did every single event in the Bible actually happen as it is described?? YES, Different writers saw different parts of specific events, so sometimes it may seem to contradict itself, but you have to think of the different authors and how they may have seen or interpreted the situation!
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased??
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people??
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda??
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today??
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible??
6. Is the Bible unfairly biased?? No, It is all true! Deserves all the glory and honor.
7. Was the Bible merely written by superstitious or ignorant people?? Not at all, It is the inspired word of God!
8. Did the writers of the Bible have some hidden agenda?? No
9. Is the Bible a reliable book today?? ABSOLUTELY! YESTER DAY, TODAY AND FOREVER!
10. Could Christianity survive without the Bible?? No, If the bible was found untrue (which it will not) then I guess we would have a problem, but I am not worried about that at all!
2: yes!
3: yes that is all God has said! all of it is Gods words!
4: Yeah!
5: yes...the Bible says all that && more happened; but we could not contain it all; so we dont know it all.
6: NO!
7-8: [again repeated from someone else] are you joking?????
9: ALWAYS and FOREVER!
10:[ahhh..my favorite question to hear] No, we need the Bible it is Gods word to us; without we could not survive.
These are some interesting questions Berf!