For those of you who have been with me so far, you know that this series started with the death of Nora, the mother of my childhood friend Lavenia. Her death caused me to take a look at my beliefs about death and the afterlife through the concept of organized religion and finally coming to terms with my own mortality. The series was limited to organized religion and not spirituality as such. Organized religions differentiates from spirituality in that it has to do with church dogma; what a particular religion says about different issues concerning their general belief, concept of god, church history, rules, regulations, church culture, communal activities and so on.
I did not broach spirituality in this series. Spirituality simply put is the relationship that one has with God. It can include whatever we have been taught in terms of organized religion, but may differ greatly. I had chosen to stay away from the aspect of spirituality when I started the series because I did not want the series to turn into a free for all. In other words, I did not want commentators to tell me that what I was thinking, feeling, and believing is totally wrong. A spiritual journey is a personal one; and unique for every individual taking it.
I will attempt to put down my spiritual views in the next installments of the series. Please note that they are my personal views and they are still evolving. I am doing this part of the series because some of my readers so far have asked for them. They are curious about my beliefs.
Having said that, I want everyone to know that my very first principal is that spirituality is personal, and very subjective. How I see my relationship with God, may be the same, similar, or completely different from yours.
Please do not read this particular part of the series if you feel attacked, threatened, or insulted by what I might say. These are my views. They do not have to be yours. Don’t write to me to tell me I am wrong. Don’t write to me to tell me that I will burn in hellfire. Neither write to me to be condescending. Do not assume the attitude that I am a poor wayward child, and that you are hoping that some day I will believe as you do; someday I will know the truth, in other words, your truth. To me that is a very arrogant point of view. For the question in my mind will always be What is the truth and who really has the handle on it?
Write to me if you want serious discourse whether you agree with me or not. If you can handle that someone else thinks differently than you do, or are delighted someone else feels the same way as you do, then by all means write to me. Write to me if you have questions that you think that I may be able to help you with along your spiritual journey, write even if these questions are rhetorical and do not necessarily need an immediate answer.
And now this part of series begins.
Here we go some of my beliefs on spirituality.
First of all I question truth. Truth is subjective. Truth is personal and individual. Why do I say this?
Well take a look around, if there was one single truth about God and religion then there would be one God, or several gods in ONE religion, and everyone would believe the same things. In other words the one truth would be Hindu across the world, or Muslim, or Christian whatever. I think you get my point.
Instead we have many religions in this beautiful world of ours, and various ways of looking at God and all the aspects of God. All these religions spout out religious dogma, in other words church truths, and claim that their way is the right way.
What church dogma does is create a division among people. The end product is that everyone is looking down on everyone else.
In Christianity we have different groups saying that the Catholics are wrong, the Protestants are wrong, the Baptists are wrong the Evangelists are wrong and so on. In Islam we have different groups saying the Sufis are wrong, the Sunnis are wrong so on and so forth. As a result, we have a bunch of people in this world going around thinking that they are so right and yet other people’s beliefs are so wrong. All these beliefs originate from the concept of different religions and extend to the same religion but a different branch of that religion’s opposing view points. It all boils down to church doctrine.
I leaned this particular truth as a young girl, when I went around from church to church and each preacher said something different and quoted the same bible passage to support his position.
The trouble with quoting Holy Scripture is that we can take a passage to suit anything we want to put forth and we can fashion an argument accordingly. However, just like the media take quotes out of content to prove a point, or show someone in a bad light, often time these Holy passages are deliberately taken out of context or twisted.
Some of you will be turned off right here and say she is attacking the holy books, she is a heretic.
Please listen to what I am saying closely.
I am saying we are taking the Holy Scriptures and twisting them to serve our own needs. I believe in the Holy Scriptures. I search its wisdoms, its connection to the holy one, but what I do not accept is how humans have deliberately manipulated those powerful words to suit whatever cause they want to herald in.
For example, if you want revenge, or you want war, you will find a bible passage to support that feeling; “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.” If you want peace and forgiveness you can quote that very same bible with, “love thy neighbour as thyself, or turn the other cheek.
So what do we do as humans? We take both these truths and use them when they are convenient for us to do so.
To my way of thinking, these controversies serve only to divide us by judging other religions as wrong, or infighting within our very own religion. They do not bring us together as children of God.
I used Christianity as the example because as a Christian it is the religion that I know the most. However, infighting is not unique to Christianity. How do we translate Mohammed words, “Women should dress accordingly?” Does that mean that women should wear a Hijab or not? Is Abu Bakr the rightful heir after the death of Mohammed or not? Which is the truth, the way of Shiva, or Krishna, eating meat or not eating meat? I have found that just about every religion has its controversies fought for centuries among its followers.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong, and we all base our truths on our Holy Scriptures according to doctrine and according to cultural interpretation and understanding.
I share the belief with many people who feel that it is hard to tease out the holy messages from cultural beliefs in any religion. Culture and religion are so intertwined that it is extremely difficult to differentiate the two. Some of what is written in the Holy Scriptures must be understood within the times it was written. It may not apply to modern day.
For example in bible times, our religious forefathers had slaves. For the most part, today slaves are prohibited around the world. Yet, it was common practice back then. Was the practice of having slaves a religious belief or a cultural one? It seems to me it was a cultural one.
Having many mistresses or wives was also accepted in bible times. It is not today. Again, was it a religious belief or a cultural one? There are religions or denominations, or sects of major religions which will interpret it as religious, while others interpret it as cultural going as far as to say it belonged as a value to the people of a bygone day. There are religions which will say it is acceptable and sanctioned by God and others that will say it is a sin.
I personally believe it was cultural. I do not see any reference in my Holy Scripture where God said that a man should have many wives (polygamy), or a wife should have many husbands (polyandry). However I do acknowledge that God did tell Abraham that he would be the father of Nations and that Sarah would bare a children and also Hagar his concubine. Was that his sanction that Hagar be kept as a concubine, or merely a prophesy of what her offspring would accomplish, herein lies the dilemma. What is religious and what is cultural? For me as I said already it is cultural.
The Holy Scriptures remain the Holy Scriptures. They have withstood the test of time. How we interpret their message depends largely upon the society in which we live in at any given point in time.
My son and I recently had a conversation about this very issue. He questioned if every religion and branch of religion claim it has the edge on the truth, then why is it that there are so many religions with different beliefs all claiming that they received their truth from God? How could there be so many contradicting beliefs if God gave the truth to everyone?
Of course I do not have the answer for it. I do not believe that I am God, in the sense that there is a creator or master behind the scenes who created us and I am that creator. But as a thinking rational human being created by this very master in his image, I do belief that God did talk to the most holy of every religion and he gave them an understanding of truth; one that they could understand, from a humanistic, a cultural and a historical perspective.
That being said, God talking to an aboriginal in Australia would be very different from God talking to the ancient Hebrews, and so on. God revealed a part of himself to each and every one of us throughout time and continues to do so. How you understand his revelation is unique to you, and how I understand it is unique to me. I respect each and everyone one of your view points and it is not for me to try and change them.
It deeply pains me when I hear church bashing, or people putting down other people for their religious of spiritual beliefs. One passage in my own holy book, the bible says, “judge not least ye be judged,” and I truly believe that.
My views on spirituality do not end here; instead it is just a beginning. To follow my own my spiritual journey, I have created a new group,
TRUTH SEEKERS
http://seekers.gather.com/
I invite each and everyone of you to join and continue the journey with me, in the spirit of human love, understanding, and the seeking of truth, however it relates to you. Come share your spiritual journey with me as well. I would love to hear from all of you.
Questions to ponder
Are you religious or spiritual?
Where does your spiritual truth come from, organized religion, holy scriptures, a religious leader, prayer, meditation, talks with God, or all of the above.
P.S. I have not been able to get into all aspects of my spiritual truths, in this article I have only touched upon religious doctrine versus spirituality. I believe it is evident by now that I lean towards spirituality and rely less on religious church doctrine.
The future articles in this series will touch other areas that have been missed today.
To be continued.
If you wish to read the beginning parts of the series, please click here:
Coming to terms with my own Mortality


Comments: 72
If murder is wrong, it is wrong for all, right? Just because Joe Shmo comes from a different place and philosophy and has a different set of truths, doesn't mean that for him, murder is OK. Thou shall not murder, therefore, is an absolute truth.
Jesus is an absolute truth. His life, death, and resurrection has been documented through the last 2000 years by His followers and non-Christian historians alike. He is the only religous head figure to rise from the dead with witnesses. His followers (disciples) saw Him again after He rose and reality hit them full in the face that this indeed IS God. They died horrible tortuous deaths because of their beliefs. That is only done by someone who is 100% sold out because they have experienced the truth.
Jesus then lays out in scripture the absolute truth in John 14:6 when He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"
God is love (I know we agree on that) and loves us all so very much. The problem with we humans is that we are so imperfect. I agree with you that people take scripture out of context all the time to make it say what they want and it sickens me. I believe God gave the scriptures to us to see how much He loves people and how He works in their lives and guides, protects, and cares for us. I do believe that the Bible was written at a certain time to certain people that lived at the time and faced different things than we do today. I believe for us, the Bible, is a book of principles for us to know God better.
I think where Christians have gone wrong is they fail to live like Jesus. They sequester themselves in church buildings and do churchy things with churchy people when that was the last thing Jesus did. He was out changing the world....one person at a time quite often. I believe to be a true follower of Jesus, we need to be out there in our culture, bringing the good news that Jesus loves them and this is most effectively done by making their lives better through our actions....not our words.
If we truly lived the life God wants for us, the world could not help but be drawn to His light and it would be a much more beautiful place to live.
God truly created a beautiful world for us to enjoy and as we choose to be me-centered and do what's good for "me", it becomes less and less beautiful. John 3:16 says that God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son so whoever believes in HIM would live forever. The greek word for world is actually translated "cosmos". This means that God loved the whole world.....everything in it and it's orderliness so much that He sent Jesus to restore ALL things lost when the first humans brought sin into the world.
One other thing I find interesting that you said was that you think God talked to all the great religious leaders and revealed truth to them. I take exception with this only because the truths of all religions vary to such a large degree, that they couldn't be from the same source. Also I believe God would have stated in His Word to us that He has transferred His truth to more than just Jesus. He wouldn't want people fighting over ambiguity. That's why He stated that Jesus is the ONLY way. This, I do not believe is narrow-minded as some like to say , because Jesus came for ALL people of every race, country, color, economic class, political persuasion, and tribe. You can't be more open-minded than that! He accepts with open arms absolutely everyone who believes! What a marvelous love story!
you mention that not to commit murder is an absolute truth, yes it is but even non religions person's atheists agree that murder is wrong. Not committing murder is what is called a universal truth and people from all walks of life generally accept that value.
You take everything that is written in the bible as complete truth, that is your right your c hoice and your direction, there will be people in this group that may not and that is their right as well.
Personally, I believe that there are things that may have been written for the purpose of illustration, or to explain a concept or even misunderstood because of the translation not coming across properly from one language to another. Having said that does not mean that if any of these things are true, that I would not believe in the word of god written there, because the work is a masterpiece, and a very wonderful message to all mankind.
As far as I am concerned, all such is really a paradox when you get right down to it and I wrote a book about it where I explain the Truth of the Universe ... I call it the BET (Basic Equation of Truth) and it requires the participation of the Spirit of God to make it True, that being a Trinity symbolised as (+=-) where Spirit is the mediator between all differentiation.
Without Spirit we have what is generally used today, a Duality where the differences are contested and conflicted across a void or gap symbolized as (+/-).
I look forward to much more discussion and will gladly join the group.
I have been baptised into the Christian Spiritualist church and I run a Spiritualist church here in the UK, but as we all know Spiritualism is a way of life.
I would be very interested in knowing more about the church of spirituality.
If you do not feel comfortable expressing your views on religion or spirituality then you are welcome to write about another truth; philosophy; psychology, changing the world for the good in other ways.
I want this group to be about communication, understanding and love.
Carol, no one can effectively abuse the higher Self (the True Spiritual aspect) of people, and disrespect is also only a function of ego ... a person cannot be demeaned unless they are at first mean ... in other words, the truth stands on it's own and the truth can never hurt none except those that deny it.
Based upon that, I feel compelled to deal in truth as I see it to the best of my ability and then when and if it bothers someone, then maybe there is a good use for it, that of bringing their attention to some potential of 'error' in their thinking. Not EVERYTHING deserves respect. So I will communicate here until (IF) I am 'deleted' and then move on ... I believe those that are out of line show their own nature only and their thoughts and words do-NOT have to be taken personally when the person KNOWS themselves to be true ... all readers will recognise the truths on all sides to the best of their ability so we should all speak freely and not fear reprisal or deletion ... people felt to be out of line should just be ignored rather than censored.
IMnsHO anyway.
This was a very interesting article. Your article inspired Rosa to do her own article on this subject. I was reading Rosa's and felt inspired to write one of my own. It seems you have indirectly inspired many of us to write on this subject. :)
My aim here is for everyone to speak their truth and it can be done in a way that is loving and healthy and helpful.
You are right no one can abuse the healthy ego if that person is has reached that level of understanding, but we are dealing with people of all different levels of ego and understanding and the vulnerable will be protected in this group.
To bash another point of view is against a higher principal of mine and I will not allow it in this group.
I invite you to write much more, I enjoy and agree a lot with what you have said.
Thank you for a thought provoking article. I myself do not like to follow a dogmatic path.
I edited my article so it is now posted to the Truth Seekers Group. :)
Are you WinterRose from mylot???
yes my nick is winterose and I used to be on mylot
I am not sure if I believe when it comes to religion that there is an absolute truth as t heir is with science, if we let go of and object in the air it will fall, using the forces of gravity that is an absolute truth,
if you believe in one god that is an absolute truth for you,
If you believe in a pantheon of Gods that is also an absolute truth,
I would love to know what your absolutes truths are.
Wonderful article and well written too. Definite "10" in my opinion.
I was raised religious, my family was religious or thought we were. We met God through our church and He was real to us - very real in an everyday sense.
My family and I have grown in our understanding of that God we serve and have found our beliefs have somewhat diverged from the church organizations we thought we belonged to. It has taken us half a lifetime to realize that and a little longer to admit it. We still honor those churches but for myself, I don't feel the organizations I have belonged to maintain the emphasis that God intended. If Christians really followed just what the Bible, itself, said there would be a whole lot more people wanting to be Christians.
I think the same goes for Mohammed's teachings. I spent a large portion of my childhood in an Islamic country. The Moslems that worked with my Dad respected his beliefs and Dad respected theirs. As children, my sibs and I were never allowed to mock the Arabs' call to prayer or any of their customs - religious or otherwise. We had many Moslem friends who truly loved Allah (God) and tried to follow the Koran. Most of them were Bedouin Suni and they were delightful people. I heard about the radical Suni in Iraq and was very surprised since I had never seen that sort of thing in the Suni that I knew. I was so very disappointed.
I have had friends with all sorts of beliefs, including Zoroastrianism and Atheism, Tom, and this is how I look at it. My friends were rational, thinking people. They came to their beliefs for a variety of different reasons - most of them were looking for God, all of them were trying to make sense out of this life we live, but none of them were stupid or retarded. I agree with you on this, Jerry, that people who put down other's beliefs only show their lack in their own nature. I hope you stick around, Tom, because someone who doesn't believe in spirituality has just as much - maybe more- to say to seekers of spirituality as someone who does. It is still Seeking Truth, isn't it? I would love to understand your viewpoint better.
Now, I believe in a Creator God (Yahweh) who took a part of Him/Herself (I don't believe God is a man OR a woman) and became a non-God (male) human being (Yeshua) in order to identify with a creation that S/He loved so much - to bridge the gap that separated us. I believe that S/He gave us the Holy Scriptures, those being the Law and the Prophets and they have been miraculously preserved through the ages - first by word of mouth, then by being written. I think the New Testament and some of the Old Testament are prophetic and inspired - but not at the same level as the Holy Scriptures (maybe I'll write up later why I feel this way for discussion sake). I study these Scriptures and I believe them to be infallible, but the big question is TO WHAT END? The New Testament says the Old Testament was given as "ensamples" for us. The Law (Pentateuch) lays out the government and cultural rules for the Hebrew people of that day - even a recommended diet and ways to treat diseases and all kinds of stuff. It carries a history of the beginning of the nation of Ancient Israel and the geneologies leading up to the Messiah/Christ to show that prophecy was fulfilled. There's a lot of wisdom in it. But even Paul, who was a very strict Jew, and Peter, also a true Jew, let the non-Jews off from following the Old Testament as their Law in the same way it was for the practicing Jewish people. So when I see Christians condemning an Atheist or a Buddhist for not following some regulation written out in Deuteronomy (a book in the Pentateuch) I think, "What is up with that!? Even Non-Jew Christians aren't supposed to be worrying about that one!" and I figure they don't know their Bible very well nor their own God either.
I hope that y'all don't mind if I tend to quote from my "Holy Scriptures," because even though I do so, I know that other people may not hold them with the same degree of respect that I do, however, they often do explain my frame of reference better than my own words.
I have no problem with seeing that the major religions could easily have begun when God met with an Earnest Seeker and gave them a revelation of some aspect of Himself and that person's followers made it into something that the original person might never have invisioned or even intended. Even the Apostle Paul said, "Follow me as I follow God." Just nobody made a religion out of Paul.
Jerry, I think Carol is right in that these discussions will have to be moderated to some degree because some people are so fragile in their own beliefs while others can be so condemning with theirs. If we want a free flow of ideas we have to care for the weaker/timid ones and let them find their way in their own timing. I don't think anyone has to be afraid of being "deleted" if they are honoring/respectful in their comments, right Carol? We can disagree without implying that the other person is stupid or WRONG. Really, we can.
I'm so excited about this group. I have some beliefs that I have come to that I don't think would go over very big in the churches I have attended. But, I think I might be able to share them here without getting too beat up or ridiculed or corrected.
Thanks Carol - sorry for the novel - I'm really bad about that.
- Jeanjaz
I claim I am spiritual rather than religious.
Thanks for presenting these well thought out posts. I look forward to more.
Blessings,
Mary Mc
A very well written series, and much appreciated.
I am somewhat in disagreement on much of what you say in this last article, and not on the basis of differing religious views, but some poor reasoning, in my view, which would have brought my disagreement I think, before coming to my current essentially strong belief in the God of the Book.
There is to me, no rational basis to speak as if the fact that one is dealing with "spiritual" matters, one is somehow above reason, or it's guidance. statements such as this one;
"if there was one single truth about God and religion then there would be one God, or several gods in ONE religion, and everyone would believe the same things"
. . . are to me patently erroneous. There is no foundation for such a claim, as there is no reason to think people would not, or more pointedly; could not, simply have wrong ideas. It does not follow that if one view of God's nature or intentions was actually born of His communications with whatever persons, then all persons would be prohibited by some magical force from believing other things true. It just is not rational.
Once such a foundation is laid, there is no place to go but confusion.
my point of view is really no less rational than yours.
we can disagree,
no one But God has the complete handle on truth there rest is just what we mortals rationalize.
Please defend that position, rather than claim I have erred in my reasoning. If I am wrong, I would very much rather alter my views. The fact that we cannot know the ultimate Truth of God, does not mean we ought not be wise and realistic in attempting to apprehend our circumstance.
I repeat; It does not seem realistic to assume that God could not communicate in one or more particular texts or revelations, without making other versions equally valid. It does not follow.
I do not have to defend it further,
my position is not that you have erred personally
my position is that nobody has the corner on spiritual truth it is a personal journey and every ones truth is right for them
the only one that has complete truth is God.
if you do not like my answer so be it,
as I said we can disagree.
If you do not want people to think about what you say, don't say it.
If you are so ridged in your views that reasonable questions cannot be dealt with by you in a reasonable way, don't accept comments.
"every ones truth is right for them"
Sure it is . . . that's why the world is such a paridise.
at least respect mind whether you agree or not.
You don't have to agree how many times to I have say that,
and that is fine with me,
but please let it go now,
you are belaboring the point and it has to stop.
in my truth seekers group you can voice your own opinion on the issue, and no one will attack you that is not what this group is about.
It is about all of us expressing out own truths,
if you are looking for a debate group truth seekers is not the right group for you.
peace be with you.
This is crazy. You have clearly denounced and presented rationales for ignoring the testimony of billions of human beings in considering these matters, and then hold up your hands and say; "But don't speak of what I preach in that way, for it is sacred to me".
If no one is to question your thoughts on this, why are you openly questioning the thoughts of billions at a time? You have presented your case for your position, and in doing that presented a case against ALL other positions. That is a fact, even if you then mumble some crap about folks not doing precisely what you did.
nothing is satisfactory for you but to come to your point of view, you will accept nothing less.
sorry you got everything this is to say
if you don't agree that is fine you don't agree.
If you think I am wrong,
fine you think I am wrong
Please think rationally. You have preached that no one has the word of God, and in so doing, have declared all who feel they do are wrong. There's no way around this. If you didn't want to denounce all who feel God has revealed His wisdom in scripture, you oughtn't have provided your arguments for that being impossible. It's a simple thing. But you can't seem to face the fact that you are just like everyone else claiming to have the brass ring. You are special it seems, cause you've learned to finish up with a statement about how everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's slight of hand rhetoric, and nothing more.
And in case you give a damn, I enter wherever I see such nonsense, including supposedly Christian double-talk too.
peace be with you
(That's my idea of a joke, of course, peace)
Thank you for a very deep and a very necessary discussion.
I'm with you all the way and I say that inspite of being a great debater. Yes I'm spiritual rather than religious.
By being spiritual I had no problem communicating with people in every country that I've been to.
I'm off to join your group. I need to belong there.
Organized religion is not necessarily dogmatic. Check out Unitarian Universalism (http://uua.org/), a denomination committed to the individual search for truth and meaning (among other things).
Yes, You are absolutely right the unitarian church is different but I could not comment on every Christian or Muslem sect etc, so I generalized across the board.
I just wanted to say I am finally going through what is now under 6,900 pieces of gather new mail that is in my inbox on here. So with that in mind I have finally come to a piece of mail that was addressed to me in regards this article submission you have created to share with the gather community. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your piece with us here at gather. :o)
And I hope you have a Happy New Year... in 2009 :o)