Monday chat: Talk to me about the war

War should be unnecessary but ...

Bringing home all U.S. troops as quickly as we can get their equipment shipped home would not be wise. Just like climate change in whatever direction is disrupting and causes human suffering, a change in the distribution of power in the world is also dusrupting and causes human suffering.

With proper policies I don't see any reason why in 15-20 years the U.S. could not have a quite small military by today's standards with very few bases outside the U.S. and its territories. (Ideally, the question of statehood will become irrelevant.)

There is no reason to attach a whole people when just a few of them are a threat thus war is pointless from our point of view except to fend off attacks.

I support our troops wherever our government, in their infinite wisdom, feels the need to place them. I know the knowledge I have as a civilian doesn't give me enough information to make a judgment call. I guess that is why we have a democracy and a vote at election time.

Great answers, all. I am a spectator in this thread, and wish to see all opinions offered in an unbiased fashion, therefore I am going to refrain from commenting for the time being. However, if you truly wish to have a response from me, please let me know and I will comply.

If we spend a lot of money buying things from the citizens of Iraq (goods (oil and other) and labor to repair all the damage from the war and such) then we change from occupiers to customers. Customers get treated a lot better. Look at how our military is viewed in Europe. Their presence after WWII was a big aid in the recovery since they spent money like soldiers on leave. Same was true of Japan.

What ever your views on the war are, one thing should remain clear and that is our support for all the men and women in our Arm Forces, past and present.

I feel compassion for the Iraqi people and all that they have had to endure for decades. First, being under control of an evil madman and his sons. I dont care why, we went into Iraq, the good of our troops being there brought them a new life. Getting rid of Saddam and his regime, gave these people a chance at something we as Americans take for granted. Our freedoms. It would be horrible to live as these people had to live. Can you imagine, the raping, beating, torture and death, that these people were subjected to? These people are human beings and have a right to voice their opinions freely, to have their children and woman protected. Saddam, brought on his own downfall by denying the UN Inspectors into his country. I feel that we were justified to go in there.
I dont think anyone could of foreseen the terrorists or insurgeants with the help of Syria and Iran, trying to undermine all of the attempts to give these people a better life. Now , that we know , we have to deal with this. I dont think pulling out of Iraq is wise. We need to stablize the country and try and rid it of the undesirables.
I dont think war is ever a good decision but there does come a time when you have to stand up and fight. We cant keep giving in to these countries who shelter terrorists and support their actions. If the USA and other countries had intervened decades ago. I dont think we would be in Afghanistan and possibley Iraq now. We did have several clues that these terrorists meant to kill us before the 9/11 attack but nothing was ever done about Osama Bin Laden. He was pretty much left alone to kill and keep on killing. Now he is a monster. So yes, I do feel that even if we arent in Iraq, we still will be fighting terrorists somewhere, in some country and I agree with the president. It may as well be over there as to have to fight them here. There may or may not of been any connection with Saddam and Bin Laden but sooner or later I felt that they would of hooked up, just because they were both our enemies.

Well my belief on war is twofold.
1. My idealist side believe there can be no fight if you turn the other cheek. If you show pained people compassion and forgiveness, that is the way to peace.

2.I believe that alot of humans are animals and will not rise above the urge to get into the to and fro. I believe that even if you get a whole bunch of peace activists together you would still have wars. (They may not involve firearms....)

For me, always the idealist, I turn the other cheek & try to love my neighbor, and understand the pain beneath their anger & do whatever I can to help that. Small things like having a nice chat with amuslim on a bus ( who has probably had to endure being spat at for the last few years). And if I get killed one day? Well I will die knowing I havent lowered myself to a level of base human instinct. I will die with my integrity intact having practiced ewhat I preached and turned the other cheek. And no I'm not really a christian as such. A fan of the man though.

re: the people of Iraq. What about the people of Zimbabwe, Cuba, Somalia, Need I go on? ALL over the world there are people dying in pain;war and famine. Why is it they only ever save the people with oil or resources? Go figure........

R u there Linda?

Boy.......what did i say?? you know what they say "dont talk about the war"

I'm sorry, Tad. I was staying out of the chat, just reading everyone's opinions. But I have a couple of questions.
1. Did Australia send troops to Iraq as part of the coalition? I know I could look this up, but you can answer quicker, no doubt.
2. Are Muslims regularly mistreated there in Australia? I don't think I've heard of people getting spat on here...

I don't believe that any of us has the knowledge to be able to critique our government and this war. We simply don't know all that our leaders know and what we do know is mostly from newspapers and televisiion which for the most part is a very liberal and biased source of information. I used to work for the National Security Agency and I remember seeing things that the general public was not privy to. And much if not most of the time what was really happening was not what the media presented. I spent 11 years in the military and 6 of those years in Intelligence. It caused me to have a much different view of our government and also told me to keep my mouth shut if I didn't know what I was talking about.

Most people only know what they are told. Who knows if the truth is being presented. I was told once....."don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see". I have since learned how valuable that quote is. So, how do I handle all this? I go to the polls and cast my vote for whoever I feel is the best personl for the job. Then I go about supporting that person and believing he has my/our best interests at heart even though sometimes it appears otherwise. But that appearance is obtained from a biased media who is bent on destroying our national spirit. They don't care what the majority has to say, they only interested in forcing their agenda upon us.

That's only my opinion. And I hope I haven't offended anyone.

1. Yep; eventhough over 70% of Australians disagreed, our Prime Minister sent in our troups.
2. Oh yes i heard heard of a woman in labour walking to the hospital (they lived close by), spat and and yelled at as her and her hubby walked along. Absolutely. People think muslims are terrorists. EVENTHOUGH we have had muslims in our community for years, no one took much notice till the towers went down.

P.S if the opposition win the election they are saying they will bring home troups

That's horrible. To spit on a pregnant woman.
: (

Though ironically, public opinion sway on that. On one hand we were against going in, but i think we feel responsible and want to assist in getting them on their feet. Our army is(was) known more for its peace keeping than its warring. At the same time, we have had our first couple of casualties in the last 2 weeks. Which means that is also hitting home. I dont think we want big war memorials to our sons dying for a cause we are dubious of.

I know! Especially when she is probably cooks great lamb dishes, prays several times a day & lives a wholesome life! NOT THAT ANYONE deserves to be spat at!

I dont pretend to know what the governmentS are up....all i know is the result of their actions.(well those results we get to see). Thats why Im an idealist. Its easier for me to be black and white about it, cos im sure if i got into it i would find it all grey and murky and i may just get caught up in it all too.

There is a state of mind that leads to war. Both sides of the war have it; or else there would be no war.

Whatever your opinion on the decision to go into Iraq, the fact is we're there and have been for almost 5 years. As Gen Powell said at the time, "If you break it, you own it."

We broke it. We have a responsibility to see that it is repaired before we pull out and leave a vacuum.

1. Our military follows orders and don't play politics with war. I'm talking about the soldiers not command. They do a damn good job of it too. They deserve our respect and support regardless of the theater.

2. Iraq - We should have never gone there in the first place. Sadam was the enemy of OBL and did not support him. Iraq had nothing what-so-ever to do with 9/11. There was NO reason to attack. Sure he was a tyrant and a sadist but he was Their tyrant not ours. There are other tyrants around the world are we going to invade all of them? As the man said, "We walked in, we can walk out". We need to do that NOW.

3. Afganistan - There was no reason to invade that country. Just for one man? So OBL was living there, so what? We overthrow a government because of that? Ron Paul had a better idea but no one would listen because Bush wanted WAR. He got it.

4. 130 Bases around the world that are not needed. 50K troops in Japan, Why? 30K in S. Korea, Why? How many in Germany? Why? No country represents an imminant threat to the United States. We have the largest nuke inventory in the world who is going to start something with us? In fact we have more nukes that the rest of the world combined. We have the best equipped Army and the best hardware there is. We can drop munitions down the chimney of any building in the world with pinpoint accuracy right from our own shores. No need to spread our military out so thin.

A Colonel named Custer found out what happens when you spread your forces out and split your command just into three parts at the Little Big Horn.

Lydia, if you want my take just read my articles. :-)

I agree with Harrel that we don't know everything there is to know. We can't. We cannot possibly want our leaders to tell us everything, because in doing that - with what is freely available on the internet - they have told the entire world. It's our job, as Harrel said, to vote for the best person, then it's also our job (and Biblical) to support our leaders. That used to happen in our country. No matter which party got in, they were more apt to do their jobs making sure that our country was served, not worrying so much about party politics. Not anymore...

The media doesn't know everything either, although they do know things that they WON'T share and things they CANNOT share. At least that was my experience in the newsroom. The key in finding out more about what's really happening is to subscribe to both liberal and conservative news sources, AND to check out what Canada and BBC are saying.

I don't like war. I never wanted a war. But I do believe that our leaders thought there were weapons of mass destruction. I know that our media didn't report everything that was found there, even though they were "imbedded."

We cannot - if we are the good and moral people we like to think we are - just up and leave now. For one thing, if that information is provided to the world, then we're likely to be attacked more while trying to flea and the people who live there are likely to suffer even worse attacks once we're gone. As David said, we have to try to fix what we broke.

Well, Richard T., I don't know the answer to your question and neither do you. But I surmise that maybe Iraq is/was more of a direct and immediate threat to the USA and her allies (e.g. Kuwait, Israel, etc). We need each other and we can't just stand by and let them be threatened by a tyrant. As for the weapons of mass destruction, I'm not so sure that there was none. Just because they haven't been found, doesn't mean they aren't/weren't there. You and I are not there and we can't possibly understand the mind of these people and we don't know but maybe these weapons are buried or across the border in Iran.

Marilyn. Thanks for your support. I don't like was either and I wish we never had to be involved in war, but this has been a problem since the beginning of time. As long as there are humans in this world there is going to be conflict. When I was in the service I was never in combat but if I received orders to go I would not hesitate. I believe my country is important enough to protect it when necessary and not be a problem to our leaders. If we as soldiers were allowed to pick and choose when to fight then we would all head to the beach and where would that leave our fellow citizens? I really don't think that most of our population even has an inkling of how serious this terrorism is. It's too bad that our children aren't taught "how to understand human behavior" and learn how to deal with our enemies on the home front so that when we get older and have to deal with enemies on the foreign front we will know what to look for. I spent 7 years overseas and saw first hand how people of third world countries live. It gave me a much deeper appreciation for my American citizenship. I'm sorry, but I don't have much compassion for the cry babies that run around and scream "the sky is falling" and those that think that they know more than our leaders do. They need to learn how to appreciate what they have and be willing to protect it when necessary.

Lydia. I guess you know that you have opened a can of worms. No telling where this will go and when it will stop. At least it gives us all a place and a cause to vent. Thanks.

Hi Harrel, I really wanted to give an open forum for all views and the rationales behind them. I think we've done a splendid job here of maintaining civility on a heated topic. Kudos to all participants!
: )

Ya'll have a good rest of the day. I gotta go. Catcha later.

"Why is One tyrant more important than any other?"
Richard T., Nov 5, 2007, 11:37am EST

My rule of thumb is that is the tyrannt is tryannical within his own borders, that's the business of the citizens of that country. If the tryannt expands beyond his borders and threatens allies, the he has entered the sliding scale of a justifiable smack-down.

wars are far better for all when wrapped up rather than declaring victory and pulling out. Witness Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm I etc in our recent history...

I admiore Paul alot and financially support him. I also think he is right on most foreign affairs issues and virtually all of his domestic ones. I really disagree with him on the Iraq/Afghanistan stands tho because what we are dealing with is not a straighjt fight between two nation states. This fight is one that will be fought, either now or later and either here or there. It would have ended sooner if Congress and the White House had done their respective jobs but neither did (cross party failure here too) All posturing and semantics aside, it is war and we need to finish it on our terms, not simply give up and come home.

My view may be unpopular but unlike so many on this site, I did my time in the Green Machine and have friends and family doing their time now too. This is not an abstract issue for me nor my family...