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Bill's Spirit
Member since:
March 3, 2006 Half-Baked Impressions From The Democratic Drexel U. Debate
October 31, 2007 04:02 PM EDT
(Updated: October 31, 2007 09:45 PM EDT)
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rating: 10/10
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comments: 31
Did you watch the Democratic debate? I did. I thought it started off kind of interestingly, in that there were no formal introductions of the candidates at the opening. After the MSNBC graphics quit rolling, the moderators (Tim Russert and Brian Williams) launched right into asking questions. Obama first, then a Clinton rebuttal. Edwards second, then a Clinton rebuttal. Clinton got the third question, Dodd got the fourth and Biden got the fifth. Then it was back to Obama, then Clinton, then Edwards. Twenty minutes into the debate, Richardson and Kucinich were finally asked to say something. Sitting on our couch, munching on Max and Erma's cookies while sipping a cup of coffee, I thought it was poor pro forma for the moderators to leave Kucinich and Richardson standing ignored for so long. The message seemed to be that "you two" don't really matter. Kucinich and Richardson both made good showings through out the debate. In fact, I'd never seen Kucinich sound so strong and appealing. Topics that were covered certainly ran the gamut. The Iraq war, invading Iran, social security, Medicare/Medicade, tax cuts, education, illegal immigration, politics, campaign finance, special interests, and our looming energy concerns; were all addressed and discussed. The opening of the debate seemed to center on assailing Hillary, then it went more standard with all the participants fielding questions. The closing was more upbeat as they questioned Kucinich about seeing a UFO, then talked about Senator Dodd's position that marijuana should be decriminalized (only Kucinich seemed to agree, although Barack was hesitant in raising his hand in disagreement). Finally, Barack stated he'd be taking his children trick-or-treating while wearing a Mitt Romney mask. Laughter ensued. The highlights of the debate, for me, included the discussion that diplomacy with Iran needed to include both carrots and sticks (aka: rewards and consequences). All the candidates seemed to agree that the current administration were heavy on stick use and almost nonexistent at offering carrots in both foreign and domestic policies. Kucinich stated with impressive conviction that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, that planning to attack Iran was illegal, and that the current administration should be impeached. He ended up saying Bush/Cheney should be impeached more than once during the debate. Senator Dodd pointed out that the possibility of Iran getting 2.6 kilograms (kg) of highly enriched uranium was hardly as troublesome as the fact that Pakistan already has hundreds, if not thousands, of kilograms of highly enriched uranium. Hillary explained her reasons for not pledging to pull ALL troops out of Iraq (the first time I've heard her explain it) because we may always need to have small numbers of troops there to pursue Al Queada, or look after our interests; such as guarding our embassy. - All the participants were against privatizing social security. Hillary made the point that we could solve, or mostly solve, all our entitlement issues if we would get back to balanced budgets and having a governmental surplus. Several of the candidates were open to the idea of lifting or raising the payroll caps on social security withholdings, and idea that could greatly increase the cash flow into social security's coffers. Barack wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts, and reduce taxes on families and senior citizens who make less than $50k per year. Several of the Democratic candidates talked about the fact that their Republican opponents seem to be leveraging themselves to run against Hillary. The prevalent opinion seemed to be that the Republicans may actually want to run against Hillary because they think they could easily defeat her. At one point in the debate, Governor Richardson tried to interject some compassion and cooperation among his on-stage peers' in-fighting. His view being that the Democrats needed to work together and not get into personally attacking each other. I was totally fascinated to hear what the candidates had to say regarding education. Most of them favored free-of-charge school programs for children under the age of five; and several of them discussed free college, or college in exchange for national service, in order to address the issue of America being 29th in the world on educating its people in science and math. After discussing various points on education the debate started winding down. I haven't covered everything that was said; and may write more later. If you are interested in reading more details on the debate here is a link (link) to a Gather page where Senator Joe Biden has posted a link to the debate transcript. Overall, I'd say the Democrats made a great showing of discussing issues and ideas over simply attacking their Republican opponents. Your opinion may differ. -- 31 October 2007 -- Bill's Spirit is honored to have been selected as a member of Gather's Election 2008 People's Press Corps. Bill's Spirit is an Artist, Writer, Poet, Philosopher currently wordsmithing from a humble forge in small town Ohio. The works of the man behind Bill's Spirit have been published in small alternative and amateur presses since 1986. Before that, they just filled notebooks, took up space on walls and gathered dust in piles and boxes. --
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Comments: 31
It sounds as if they all put their best foot forward. I'm pro-Hillary myself but like Obama as well.
Wilka
They can and will. She would definately be my choice for a democratic opponent if I were a republican.
The answer to your question is yes, that really did happen. Hillary's point of view was that Spitzer's program would lead to illegal immigrants being trained, tested and licensed, which would make our streets safer. One of the other candidates (I think it was Richardson) stated that if they got licenses there'd be a documentation trail to keep track of them.
Kathy W. - I'm undecided too. Luckily, we have about a year before actually deciding who we will vote for. I'm glad you got something out of this.
Jamie G. - I'm glad you got so much out of this. For the longest time I could never understand a lot of what politicians were saying, then I ended up in a job working around them and I sort of caught on. One of the major reasons I want to write about politics is so I can translate poli-speak into plain speech and help people understand what's going on. It's nice to hear from someone that I did that. Thanks.
Carol LeHane - I'll try to get over and read your piece. Thanks for telling us about it.
Penny G. - I'm glad I could be a source that helped keep you informed.
Anybody else who is interested in reading it, can find it at http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977163871.
Everyone,
I should have done a better job of proofreading my earlier comment. I am definitely lousy at proofreading my own stuff.
Democrat Debate was comical and basicly watch cartoon figures beating themselves up and tossing some torts and blame on Republicans..
Sad debate.
Dennis all the things you said and he also is probably the most sincere of all the candidates. Unfortunately those are not the characteristics that make for a good President of the United States. Diplomacy can be a very tricky business and I don't think Dennis has it in him to appear comfortable while intentionally hiding how he really feels about an issue under discussion.
I suspect Dennis is also inclined to want people to be as honest, passionate and forthright and caring as he is, and that can lead to going into negotiations with totally unrealistic expectations and a failure to consider the possibility has a hidden agenda.
Dennis abounds in the character attributes I would love to see in a son-in-law. Unfortunately he is not seeking for that position.
I see what happened now and it looks as if Hillary will have to face much consternation throughout her campaign about this one. I can even see a little "swift boating" underway. Will she overcome this gaffe - I think so. She's quite saavy.
Donald C. -
"I find providing federal loans verses free education is better so at least the investment has a chance to paid back. Then if its free, colleges and universities will charge even more. No, loans are available with grants for anyone who truely desires an education."
The "pay back" to the government, for providing free education, would be higher income earning within the populous, which would lead to higher tax revenues for the government. Also, having more college educated folks would be a boon to the business worlds and a higher functioning workforce would better our national position in the world's markets.
The candidates discussed the idea of having graduates fulfill one to two years of national service in exchange for their "free" education. This would be a boon for the government as it would create a "workforce" of trained and educated folks for the government to wield as it saw fit.
It IS my understanding that loans are available to everyone, unless they have already received their max or are in default on previous loans. It is also my understanding that grants are NOT available to everyone because financial guidelines (FAFSA) dictate what people are eligible for.
As an educator - I have to say that I could make a case for paying people to attend school. Our workforce would be better qualified and happier to boot. With happiness comes more innovation and thus more income for the internal revenue service. I get criticized for my ideas but I believe that if our country seriously educated people through the college level that we would have more voters. Therefore, a more informed citizenry would result and our fine constitutional values could be achieved.
Carol LeHane - You make some insightful commentary on how reflexive sincerity can actually be a detriment in a country's leader.
Joe T. - Forthrightness is something many Americans can respect and appreciate. If every politician had that quality, we'd live in a better world; I think.
It's been my observation that Richardson also shows a lot of open, honest forthrightness.
You are right about forthrightness. It is so refreshing to meet people with that quality.
I also agree with you about Richardson. He is to affable to be seen by most as a possibly effective leader, although this trait has served him well as a negotiator. I hope he doesn't try and change just to accommodate others' perceptions.
Denise B. - You're welcome.
"The "pay back" to the government, for providing free education, would be higher income earning within the populous, which would lead to higher tax revenues for the government. Also, having more college educated folks would be a boon to the business worlds and a higher functioning workforce would better our national position in the world's markets. "
We already have college educated idiots who can not find work. Free college will not increase our skilled labor force, it just make kids think they deserve more then they do. Giving college away is reducing the value of college. Tell me honestly of one person who can not attend college who desires it. Maybe they can not afford Harvard but the local community college..they can.
We do not need more college level, we need more worker bees who are willing to work at lower wages. Damn, no one want a college educated walmart greeter.
Bill- If someone is in default, well they BLEW IT. If they maxed the grants that means they had a chance.If someone doesnt qualify for a loan or grant then its because of financial means are over the baseline. Again, nothing wrong with people working for the benefits, like vistacorpes or other means to get free education.
People who claim no means---means they have not the desire enough to pay for it.
Graduates give national service..but what about the ones who quit? Hmmm...guess its like taking a student loan and not paying it back?
Maybe if you check the attempts that have failed you would understand. People already complain about the local costs for schools, and now want free education for college.
If anything, Feds need to pump the money into k-12. Everyone looking at giving ADULTS free education yet, the KIDS are the ones who need it most. Higher incomes will never cover the costs of a free education for college.
Nothing is FREE- so funding will have to come from somewhere.
Obama wants a tax break for Elderly, but how many Elderly are over burden in taxes? Most are paying nothing in taxes already
The machine is alive and well. The machine is part Democrat and part Republican. It's job is to determine who we will vote for. Coming out of the machine is a conveyor belt. On that belt sit our candidates. They are almost out of the machine and, from where I sit, it looks like Rudy and Hillary are about to emerge.
Funny how no matter how much we cough and sputter, the machine just keeps chuggin' along.
Good Lord, Donald, do you even realize what you just spouted? Minimum wage workers cannot eke out a living now, and you want them to work for less? I suppose next you'll ask for Alpo to carry nutritional data, so those workers, not to mention the elderly, can see what's in dinner? Do you have one ounce of compassion in your greedy soul?
They are ALL WRONG. A balanced budget has nothing what-so-ever to do with Social Security. What they need to address is the habit of the Federal Government "borrowing" money from the Socical Security and Medicare Trusts. None of them seem to understand that those trusts are not their money. It belongs to the people who put that money in there, not the government.
I keep scratching my head wondering where all the money we saved in department budget cuts and slashing the military went. I'm guessing it got spent on private government contracts.
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