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by Dave McGill
Member since:
January 23, 2006

the contrarian - Hey, Iran May be Coming Around

October 24, 2007 12:20 AM EDT
views: 160 | rating: 9.8/10 (36 votes) | comments: 97

The Bush administration is ratcheting up the rhetoric on Iran again. Whether that “old dog” will still hunt is yet another matter. What’s important, however, is that our gang seems to be launching into its eerily familiar pre-attack dance.

Press reports at the end of last week carried the usual accusations that Iran is smuggling weapons and munitions to Shiite militants over its 900-mile long mutual border with Iraq. The reports generally contained the caveat that there was no known proof that the military contraband was coming from Iran, or that the Iranian government was involved.

It’s also a little strange that there is never a mention as to where the Sunnis obtain their ordnance. That’s the group that has been responsible for nearly all the major terrorist incidents in Iraq. We never hear any similar concerns regarding the 400 mile border shared between Iraq and the Sunni nation of Saudi Arabia.

Vice President Cheney has also been on the stump, laying out the administration’s case for an attack on Iran. He even ventured out on Sunday to say that Iran’s intent to build nuclear weapons was obvious and that the U.S. and other countries were “prepared to impose serious consequences” if that nation doesn’t change course.

For its part, Iran has said that any attack will be met with a retaliation that will include the launching of 11,000 missiles into “enemy bases” within 60 seconds. The country has been asserting for some time now that it has developed a high tech capability to cause considerable damage to U.S. military interests in the Gulf region, not to mention that its targets could also include whatever oil tankers might happen by

Without knowing whether it is based on exaggeration, reports have claimed that Iran's arsenal includes the following advanced weaponry:

-- A missile, the Fajr-3, that is invisible to radar and able to strike several targets with multiple warheads.

-- A high-speed torpedo, the Hoot, able to move at some 223 mph, up to four times faster than a normal torpedo, and fired by ships cloaked to radar.

-- A surface-to-sea missile, the Kowsar, with remote-control and searching systems that cannot be scrambled.

-- A "super-modern flying boat," undetectable by radar and able to launch missiles with precise targeting while skimming low over the surface of the water at a top speed of 100 nautical mph.

Meanwhile, in the face of Washington’s hostile threats, and Israel's bombing raid into Syria, there appears to have been a more cooperative strategy coming out of Iran, lately.

For example, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pledged to Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki, in September, that his country would provide tighter controls of their mutual border.

Since then, as can be seen in the chart to the left, the trend of weekly deaths among the American military forces has been significantly reduced.

The first bar on the far left represents the average of weekly deaths during the three months prior to the Iranian pledge. That weekly average was 23.  The remaining bars represent the deaths each week since the pledge was made.  The most recent number, last week, was 10.

Also, as can be seen by this second chart, weekly U.S. deaths from improvised explosive devices have also been trending lower.

Again, the far left bar represents the average weekly number of American deaths from IED’s in the three months prior to the Iranian pledge. That weekly average was 15.  The remaining bars represent the deaths from IED’s each week since the pledge was made. The most recent number, last week, was four.

In addition, the rate of civilian deaths has fallen. A week ago last Saturday, the toll fell to its lowest level in recent memory.  Only four people were found dead in the entire country.

Obviously, terrorist attacks are continuing and they may even increase but, at this point, the Shiite involvement clearly seems to have lessened.

And, as far as that important issue concerning Iran’s potential nuclear threat is concerned, it was reported 12 days ago that Iran and the U.N.’s atomic watchdog agency had ended three days of talks aimed at clearing up suspicions concerning Iran’s activity. Those preliminary talks, at least, were described as “satisfactory.”

Yesterday, discussions continued in Rome, and it was considered to be an excellent sign that Iran decided to include Ali Larijani as a member of its delegation. Larijani, who recently resigned as Iran’s top nuclear negotiator, is considered a relative moderate who has worked effectively with western officials in the past.

Just as there is no hard evidence that Iran is arming the insurgents, so too, there is no hard evidence that the improvement in the situation in Iraq is related to Iran’s alleged efforts to control its border. Similarly, we do not know at this point that Iran is not building a nuclear capability.

However, there is definitely some optimistic circumstantial evidence surfacing.  Enough, possibly, to justify a reduction in Washington’s saber rattling which, given its track record, is unnerving a good percentage of the world's population.

In the words of John Lennon from 35 years ago, perhaps this is the right time to “give peace a chance.”

 

Dave McGill, News Correspondent……………….

Dave’s column, “The Contrarian,” generally published every Wednesday, to Gather Essentials: News will sometimes present a contrary view to various aspects of the news, or an alternate take on the conventional wisdom of the day, and will occasionally also appear on other days of the week………….

Dave has been a senior officer of a large eastern insurance company, involved in economic projections and investment strategy, president of a Midwestern mortgage banking company, and a financial consultant in Southern California, serving clients in the field of commercial real estate development…………….

You can find all of Dave’s “The Contrarian” columns at: http://gather.com/thecontrarian...... Keep up with Dave’s other postings and Gather activity by joining his Gather network – just click here: http://atadaskew.gather.com........ You’ll find Dave and other News Correspondents, plus celebrity content and plenty of other News experts at News.gather.com.

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Comments: 97

Olga M. Oct 24, 2007, 12:29am EDT
I sure would love to be reassured by your words. I just wonder how much the Boys really WANT peace. I think they are already desperate as it is to scrape up charges against Iran as an excuse to do a little "Regime Change". I'm afraid if those pretexts fall through, they will just consult their think tank and drum up some more. Like the Revolutionary Guard thing might be more of a possiblity now that they are involved in this Turkey-PKK skirmish. Something they do concerning the security of Iraq could make them more "blamable" somehow.
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TK Rosevear Oct 24, 2007, 12:37am EDT
You sure shed alot of light on subjects that need addressing, David - thanks ;)
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 12:39am EDT
I dont think we will go to war with Iran any time soon. No doubt, we could defeat them. At the end of the day, the US is the greatest military and economic power the world has ever known, and no nation will ever be able to challenge that. But Iran's counter attack against oil sites would be devistating. It would be like the Tanker War during the Iran-Iraq war, but a lot worse. Bush and Cheney are not going to start a war. We already have our hands full in Iraq and Afghanistan, and another war would not be good. We wont go to war, at least not until we have Iraq under control, which is still a few years away.
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missie s. Oct 24, 2007, 12:41am EDT
your article was very informative, thanks for sharing it.
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Dena Straughn Oct 24, 2007, 12:51am EDT
Great article
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 1:15am EDT
Spartan, can you deny what I said? Can Iran challenge the US, be it military or economic power? Would an Iranian attack on US oil facilities not be devistating?
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Clarke M. Oct 24, 2007, 1:25am EDT
David,
Fine article. The Bush administration's failure to respond positively to the reformer- government of President Khatami's significant help in Afghanistan and 2003 offer to negotiate all issues between Iran and the US (nuclear, support of Hizbollah, hostility to recognition of Israel) convinced the aging hardliners in Iran the US wants to attack Iran no matter what and led to Ahmadinejad's election in 2005. Ahmadinejad, unfortunately, doesn't believe the US would be so foolish to attack Iran because of the mess in Iraq. Ahmadinejad doesn't have the authority to determine policy the Supreme Leader does, but his rhetoric and Bush's is dangerous. The US is supporting anti-Iran group's in Iraq that even the US has designated as terrorsist organizations for some years.
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 1:31am EDT
Richard we are beating the insurgents! The Surge is working in Iraq! We may not have won in Iraq, but it is clear that the insurgents have lost.

Iran has some good stuff, but still, the military and technological power of the US will eventually destroy the Iranians. The problem is that they cannot hit our cities, our factories, or anything else. We can bomb them into the ground. We can destroy all their strategic positions from 5000 miles away. They cannot hit us at home. We have a bigger population, a much more powerful military. But as we are not going to go to war with them, it does not matter
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John Knight Oct 24, 2007, 2:26am EDT
Ty,

Yeah, we could cream them I-ranies with one hand tyed behind our backs. Hell, even Mr. Bush couldn't screw that one up enough to scare you, huh?
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Col. George W. Oct 24, 2007, 2:30am EDT
Ty, If Cheney gets his way you are wrong. Iran has cooperated extensively yet the Bush/Dneney & Co crowd is pushing for war. I think the only thing that will prevent a preemptive strike is our own Military leaders by refusing an unlawful order. They can do that.
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Col. George W. Oct 24, 2007, 2:30am EDT
make that Bush/Cheney & Co.
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Kathryn E. Oct 24, 2007, 2:59am EDT
Scary stuff but you make it seem possible; still, I am very scared.
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Donna M. Oct 24, 2007, 3:04am EDT
great article David..."the road to hell, is paved with good intentions"........
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Jerry Kays Oct 24, 2007, 3:07am EDT
Great article David (as usual) ... I watched the PBS show FrontLine tonight on Iran, it was very interesting ... I do not trust (naturally) that Bush and Co will not create big problems for this world before leaving office ...
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Mark Lange Oct 24, 2007, 3:19am EDT
"Peace" does have a nice ring to it!~
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Chip Davis Oct 24, 2007, 4:09am EDT
I have my concerns David. I don't think peace is anywhere close in our future but I'll reserve judgment until after Jan 2009. If we can last that long, peace may be a "possibility" in my lifetime but not in the next 20 years at the very least and I may not live to see it.
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elizabeth e. Oct 24, 2007, 4:53am EDT
I'm with John on this one...."Give Peace a chance...."
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Patrick C. Oct 24, 2007, 7:00am EDT
Speaking of surge ... why is it working? Simple - pre occupation of Baghdad - Sunni 65% of population, Shite, Christians and others 35%. Today - Sunni 20% of population, Shite 75% and Christians and others 5%. We have aided and abetted what is a classical ethnic cleansing.
Also, please note al Sadr (anti USA mullah) is taking a sabbatical in Theran. Prior to his R&R, he declared a 6 month ceasefire.
Last but not least there are over 2 million Iraqui refuges in neighboring countries and Europe. That number is growing by 1-2K per DAY. Wow, never thought of this but at this rate we will have cleansed all Iraqi's from their own country in a few years.

A war with Iran would be simply stupid. War is a measure of last resort and we haven't even begun to explore opening any channels for peace. Insofar as Iranian military might is concerned, its really no big deal as they eventually will be neutralized. What worries me is, what happens when Iran sinks 2 tankers/ships in the straights of hormuz. If that happens then there will be instant worldwide economic chaos (yes there are other countries that exist outside our borders) as all oil supplies from the gulf will cease to be exported. We really won't care too much since we get most of our oil from Canada, Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela.
Also, what will we do with the land portion of the war. Are we sending troops in? We don't have enough as it is so then what ... a draft? Maybe this is why they initiated the passport rule for people who want to visit other countries. Not for homeland security but rather to keep as many kids ages 17-25 (currently) from escaping to say Canada and becoming draft dodgers. How long does it take to get a passport these days ... a long time I believe and a long time does not bode well for those who do not want to be drafted.

I hope and pray some sensible men/women will stand up and pull us away from the brink of disaster.
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Carole S. Oct 24, 2007, 7:43am EDT
Let's hope there is no war with Iran. But at the same time I don't think Iran can be discounted too quickly. Eventually, I feel something will have to be done with Iran but I don't think the timing is good right now. The iranian government is not going to back down. They are out to destroy us. Our only hope there is that the people of Iran will stand up and take out their leaders.
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Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. Oct 24, 2007, 7:50am EDT
Interesting article, and comments. A few observations. Figures don't lie, but liars figure, and the surge is, as all Bush policy on Iraq, a huge failure. There will be an attack on Iran, and anyone that gets past all the blowby knows that this policy is PNAC, and they already have their own reasons. Iranian subterfuge has no relevance but propaganda value. It is not, "Does Iran deserve an attack?", but "How can we justify it?", just as it was with Iraq. You have to take off the blinders and realize who these men are, and what their priorities are, and go from there. The rest is just BS for the viewing public.
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Spencer T. Oct 24, 2007, 7:59am EDT
As always a good thorough write, David. Thank you.
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 9:08am EDT
John, all I say is that the US is the superior force here. No military can defeat the US. We have not lost a battle since Korea, and Iran wont be the first to defeat us.

Colonel, if you are right, I pray that it never happens.
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Patrick C. Oct 24, 2007, 9:42am EDT
ty sorry to disagree with you but what was vietnam all about then? did we lose or was it a tactical withdrawl?
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Centrist Citizen Oct 24, 2007, 10:13am EDT
TY, we can bomb the hell out of Iran but once we go in to occupy, we will be bogged down again & it will b much worse that Iraq.
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Judi F. Oct 24, 2007, 10:17am EDT
Thanks, David.
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Ramzy S. Oct 24, 2007, 12:38pm EDT
(Superb work.)
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Sheila Deeth Oct 24, 2007, 1:14pm EDT
Very informative. Thanks for a very good article.
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Clarke M. Oct 24, 2007, 1:58pm EDT
Impeaching this Pres. should been done a long time ago.
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 3:01pm EDT
Patrick and Spartan, can you give me one battle in Vietnam that US forces lost? We did not lose Vietnam in Vietnam. We lost it at home. Likewise, can you tell me one battle that the US lost? We are not losing Iraq on the battlefield, but we are losing it at home, in Congress.

Centrist, going to war with a nation does not always mean occupation. All we really have to do is destroy the government, the military, and WMD programs. We can do that without occupying Iran.
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James C. Oct 24, 2007, 3:05pm EDT
David,

Superb analysis! I am struck by the claims Iran is making concerning new, hight tech equipment. Such statements as "cannot be scrambled" and "invisible to radar" sound to me like something they wish they had and may be working on but are really not likely to exist except on the drawing boards. I would assume they are closer to a nuclear weapon that to all of these.

They, like Saddam, do not want to be seen as vulnerable. Claiming to possess either nuclear of an array of other superior, high tech responses is hoped to deter any aggressor. That is why Saddam encouraged the tale of massive weapons of mass destruction and nuclear. It wasn't just the US that he was worried about.

If in fact, Iran does posses some of these, I would suspect that they got them from either Russia or China.
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Sandy F. Oct 24, 2007, 3:32pm EDT
Some of us just can't give up the idea that America will always win and we are the biggest, strongest, best..... etc. Well, we have met the enemy that has nothing to lose... and their kamakasi mentality is something we don't know how to deal with. Our intelligence can't stay ahead of them and they wear down our valiant fighting forces with 24/7 terrorist activities. God bless those troops! Their leader certainly doesn't give them a single break.

To attack Iran in the middle of this would be foolhardy and on a par with "we will be received as heros and greeted in the streets with flowers" and " it will be over in a few weeks." I don't trust this regime in Washington to see the handwriting on the wall or learn from the mistakes they've "never made." Until January 2009, anything is possible. This is why I feel we must continue with the push Dennis Kucinich has started with the move to impeach Cheney. They can do so much damage in the next 14 months yet.

David, as always, a well-written and thoughtful article. Thanks for all you do.
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Charles Temm JR Oct 24, 2007, 4:20pm EDT
David,

Good article overall with very good stats too.

However, if we were finding newly made, say Japanese equipment among the terrorists do you think that might be conclusive? Iran has few buyers for most of its military gear, surprisingly they are all nearby ones that aren't friendly to us. Enough Iranian Revolutionary Guards have been captured/killed by US/Iraqi forces to have pertty much mooted the whole debate. Problem is Congress has told the world they are torn over the whole issue and Bush does not have the political capital to do anything official about it.

Most of the hardware you've described is known and little of it is actually new. Sov based systems like the MOR1 AA system-supposedly very hot stuff- was just worked over by Israel with no casualities. The Iranian government is whistling in the dark now about being able to do real damage to any attacking US air/naval strikes. Plus Kharg Island is one helluva big target, it ships over 85% of Iran's oil exports...
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Centrist Citizen Oct 24, 2007, 4:33pm EDT
Ty Phoo,

I do agree with u that we can destroy the nation in no time. We topple & bring down every Iranian institution.. but then what? Who will control the mayhem & chaos after that? Iran will truly become a threat then. Due to lack of civil leadership, the leftover army will takeover as they are will b most armed & trained to fight anyone who stands in their path. The violence will surely pill over into Iraq & Afghanistan (already unstable nations) and will embolden insurgency in the area, as if we are not having enough problems already.

The lives of 26 million will be destroyed... do we not care? Yeah, I forgot they are evil & their lives holds no value. It's only us westerners who are morally right & only our lives are worth mourning for. How could I have forgotten the basics... :(
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Carolion Grailbear Oct 24, 2007, 5:30pm EDT
The hope of the Middle East, indeed, of the world, is not the USA. It is JORDAN.
The Pentagon has had warmongering plans against Syria and Iran in place since years before they finally engineered the attack on Iraq. All the peacemakers/lightworkers I know have been working with prayers, earth healings, etc to shift all that creativity into positive mode - get out of the puritanical witchburning projection thing the USA has been doing for so long. What's needed is a healthy and large focus on t he potential for clearing up the messes in the Mideast, S. America, and Africa. Prayer circles, get to work. What we focus on is what the universe increases, so let's focus on peace for these areas.
Supporting JORDAN's gifts for the world with loving thoughts is another way to help.

Don't you think it's funny - all those missiles (penises, really - lol!) and their silly "boy" names? It would be funny if they weren't so deadly. But really, isn't it truly stupid how much wonderful time, energy, and attention is wasted on these deadly toys? Let's get all the warmongers of the world into a big video game parlor and let them play all the immature virtual-deadly war games they want, eh? One big game parlor. And we'd surround it with peaceworkers singing peace songs and praying and doing energy healings, and transforming all the negativity emanating from those warmongers - transform it into healing power. What-say?
Yeah, some would think that's a lame idea - and yet - hey! It ain't deadly. It's dowright friendly, when you think about it. (c:*
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John Knight Oct 24, 2007, 5:49pm EDT
"Let's get all the warmongers of the world into a big video game parlor,
. . . What-say?


I say; I think you may be missing the "point" of those missiles.
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Kim J. Oct 24, 2007, 6:02pm EDT
Very good article, David, as usual. As you point out, the Iran/Iraq talks were completed about the same time the surge began--it is because of the cooperation of the 2 nations of Iraq and Iran, not shrub's murdering more G.I.'s that has helped Iraq.

Second what country could defeat us? China--wouldn't even have to fire a missle...just call in our loans! And we can thank shrub and his supporters for selling out our nation on credit so he and his mob can get a bit richer and not have to pay taxes like the rest of us!
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Tom Kurtz Oct 24, 2007, 6:03pm EDT
Today I read how one possible reason why the administration is not crowing about about the apparent reduction in attacks in Iraq. The theory goes that Bush, Cheney et al would have a harder time justifying an attack on Iran if the level of violence abates in Iraq. I hate to say it, but that would follow the pattern of this presidency. It's never been about having an effective foreign policy. War and terror and fear are ends in themselves to the White House. It keeps them in power and allows them to continue giving to the rich while taking from the rest of us.
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 6:29pm EDT
Centrist, I agree. But as we are not going to go to war with them, that scenario does not matter. Likewise, my opinion that we can destroy them does not matter either as we are not going to go to war.
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Diana Raabe Oct 24, 2007, 7:06pm EDT
Great piece, David, and something we have to keep an eye on.
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Thomas Spainhour Oct 24, 2007, 7:12pm EDT
ty phoon wrote:
can you give me one battle in Vietnam that US forces lost? We did not lose Vietnam in Vietnam. We lost it at home.
Whether a military campaign is lost on the battlefield or "at home" is a distinction useful only on The History Channel.

As an Army veteran post-Vietnam (1975-83), I consider the 1968 Tet Offensive a military campaign we "lost" for the simple reason that just 2 months prior, our commanding general stated that the enemy was simply not capable of such an attack:
"[the communists are] unable to mount a major offensive... I am absolutely certain that whereas in 1965 the enemy was winning, today he is certainly losing... We have reached an important point when the end begins to come into view." -- General Westmoreland, to the National Press Club, 21 November 1967
Featured on the cover of Time magazine three times and named 1965's Man of the Year, General Westmoreland had become the public face of the Vietnam war. Time described him as "the sinewy personification of the American fighting man... (who) directed the historic buildup, drew up the battle plans, and infused the... men under him with his own idealistic view of U.S. aims and responsibilities."

Remind you of anyone? Seems we are reenacting Vietnam circa 1967 right now, with David Petraeus in the role of William Westmoreland.
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pamela r. Oct 24, 2007, 10:01pm EDT
Very good article as usual--Seems like history does an awful lot of repeating itself here lately--hopefully some of us(enough of us) have learned something and we can head the craziness off at the pass--I know wishful thinking here lately--we can only wait and see.
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Patrick C. Oct 24, 2007, 10:03pm EDT
Ah the tet offensive ... general giap's lotus offensive ... brilliant for them not for us since it signaled the beginning of the end.
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Patrick C. Oct 24, 2007, 10:06pm EDT
David, pardon me for this distraction. I have questions for all of you, and that is: Why won't we leave Iraq? and What do we have to do to leave Iraq?
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John Knight Oct 24, 2007, 10:37pm EDT
Patrick,

I think it is most important that people continue to seek and speak the truth. Simply offering ones opinion has little effect, since there are many millions of opinions. But information, and informed reasoning are not so easily swept aside.

There are surely many in Congress who would like very much to "get us out" of Iraq, but they cannot make bold moves without significant "political" backing. The propaganda campaign to paint our "enemies" as inhuman monsters has gone very well, and so to the illusory linking of support for the "war" and support for the people placed in that chaos. Without convincing evidence that the public is beyond these manipulative tactics, those elected officials seeking the end of this nightmare cannot take a chance on being twisted and smeared beyond recognition, and so further empowering the "hawks".

Many citizens are no longer buying the swill they are given to drink, without a skeptical wince, and the time when the spin will be useless may be approaching. Even many in the military are growing very wary of what they are being told, and I mean the "combatant commander" types, who often take that oath to the Constitution rather seriously. Each "straw" of truth heaped on this camels back, is another burden it cannot bear much longer.
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Clarke M. Oct 24, 2007, 10:54pm EDT
The neo-cons invaded Iraq in order to invade Iran.
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 10:57pm EDT
Just to let you know, the Tet offensive was a huge military disaster for the North Vietnamese. It only worked because the media perverted it to fool the public.
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Patrick C. Oct 24, 2007, 11:06pm EDT
Ty, just for arguments sake, do you think that had we stayed the course in Vietnam we would have been able to march into Hainoi?
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 11:10pm EDT
Patrick, if we marched to Hainoi, Chinai would have invaded and we would have gotten in another war with them. The only way to defeat an insurgency is to stay for a long time and kill a lot of them. The only counter-insurgency to really work in the 20th century was in the Phillippeans. Yes, it cost a lot of lives, but it worked out. It all depends on on who wants victory more. If you have the will, then there is a way. Anyays, we would not have marched to Hainoi.
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Timothy V. Oct 24, 2007, 11:37pm EDT
ty phoon......Just in case the U.S. decides to invade Iran, where would we come up with enough troops to pull that one off?
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 11:42pm EDT
Timothy, we have 120 million people at home who are able to serve in a draft. Thats more than enough troops. But even so, we could probably defeat them with the troops we have.
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Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. Oct 24, 2007, 11:49pm EDT
Actually, Ty,
According to interviews with period North Vietnamese leaders, it was a tactical and political move that accomplished several things for the North. One, it put the lie to Westmoreland's claims, and thoroughly embarrassed the US, and it allowed them to get full control of the VietCong, by the sacrificing of inflexible leaders (as well as their units) that sometimes opposed Hanoi's aims. It was no defeat, from their point of view.
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Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. Oct 24, 2007, 11:52pm EDT
Ty,
The minute a draft starts again in this country, the vast baby boomer mother's lobby will eviscerate the boob that proposed it, and politicians know that. Not bloody likely. It would be the shortest war ever.
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Don(time to open them FEMA camps) S. Oct 24, 2007, 11:52pm EDT
Draft , as long as all the supporters of bush's folly go first , 18 to 60 .....
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Donna M. Oct 24, 2007, 11:55pm EDT
TY - you being one of those 120 million, I am assuming you will sign up before you receive your draft papers to save the government the cost of a stamp...
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ty phoon Oct 24, 2007, 11:57pm EDT
Donna, I signed up about 5 years ago. Been there and back 3 times already.

I personally dont support the draft, as it would be too expensive and would destroy the professional military, which is one of the main reasons why we have the best military in the world. But we could beat Iran, no doubt about it.
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Timothy V. Oct 24, 2007, 11:59pm EDT
" But even so, we could probably defeat them with the troops we have. "

Oh my God. We couldn't defend our country against an invasion by Honduras with the amount of troops that we have now.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 12:01am EDT
Tim, are you serious? The US military is the best on Earth. We have better training, better stuff, and better...well just about everything. We have about 1.2 million people serving. Thats more than enough.
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 12:02am EDT
Christ on a cracker...we can't even control our own borders, more the less invade Iran with the troops that we have now.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 12:03am EDT
Sure Tim...
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 12:04am EDT
" The US military is the best on Earth "

Yeah, let's invade China and we'll see about that.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 12:05am EDT
Some things dont even deserve a responce. I think I have said it all before.
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Mario A. Oct 25, 2007, 12:09am EDT
David, this is a great article, but unfortunately, as some other posters here, I'm not comforted by the idea that we can ignore Iran and it will go away. I don't believe they have that much firepower to successfully launch and accurately hit 66,000 targets within 2 minutes, but I do believe the president there is crazy and will commit a lot of despearte and inhumane acts to cause the death of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, which will then be on the head of the U.S.
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 12:21am EDT
What the heck..let's go ahead and hit them with all we've got and see how long it takes China to get involved. Then there will be no doubt that we will have to inact the draft.
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Ron B. Oct 25, 2007, 1:08am EDT
The Sky soldiers who survived the battles around Dak To wouldn't consider it a victory at least those companies that had less than forty troops left, nor would the Marines on Operation Prairie think in terms of victory especially those annihilated in the lead company. Firebase Ripcord had to be abandoned under fire and the author of Ripcord, Keith Nolan considers it a battle lost.
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John Knight Oct 25, 2007, 1:08am EDT
Mario,

" I don't believe they have that much firepower to successfully launch and accurately hit 66,000 targets within 2 minutes, but I do believe the president there is crazy and will commit a lot of desperate and inhumane acts to cause the death of tens of thousands of innocent civilians"

Well, except for that first bit about firepower, I would think many Iranian's would say the very same thing. In fact, the election of Mr. Ahmadinejad in 2005 can hardly be considered mysterious, given the nature of the neighborhood at the moment. Those folks ain't crazy, they're just a bit too much like us.

He is however, not able to initiate much on his own, and the Presidency is nothing like what has come to be in this country.
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Ron B. Oct 25, 2007, 1:12am EDT
The US military has never been in such bad shape. It's too small, and physically as well as mentally exhausted with no relief in sight. The US is no shape to fight a ground war against any major nation. We can bomb to kingdom come, but not control the real estate and that includes Iran.
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Jeanne O'Neill Oct 25, 2007, 1:27am EDT
The US Military is in incredible shape - Ron you have been out a long time or not in touch with those that are in the military these days.

We are not going to go to war with Iran - Yes we will have a plan always to take out their munition areas however the only thing we want Iran to do right now is stop supplying arms and deadly bomb materials to the guys we are fighting in IRaq and Afghanistan.

Dave, as usual a great article and informative.
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 1:31am EDT
" The US military has never been in such bad shape. It's too small, and physically as well as mentally exhausted with no relief in sight. "

Ron..exactly. That's why they sent one of my friends who is in the National Guard, 5' 9" 280 lbs, and it ain't muscle. No way this guy was in any physical condition to go over there and fight. And by the way, he did see combat action.
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 1:34am EDT
" The US Military is in incredible shape "

And we can't even secure our own borders...hmmmmm.....
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 1:34am EDT
Or ports for that matter......
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John Knight Oct 25, 2007, 1:42am EDT
Ron,

Odd how the MSM never got around to mentioning what the military has been telling folks about this for months now . . . don't you think?
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 1:45am EDT
And yet despite all our problems, we are still the greatest military power on the planet, able to defeat any challenger. Amazing.
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John Knight Oct 25, 2007, 1:53am EDT
"In a statement released late Wednesday, the Army chief of staff, Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, said much has been asked of the Army during the nearly five years the U.S. has been at war.

"I have testified to the facts about our readiness and I remain concerned about the serious demands we face," said Schoomaker"
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,107179,00.html

That was in July of 2006!

If you fellas think things have gotten a whole lot better since then . . .
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 1:59am EDT
" And yet despite all our problems, we are still the greatest military power on the planet, able to defeat any challenger. Amazing. "

And we can't defeat drug smugglers and human traffickers crossing our borders and entering our ports everyday.Amazing.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 2:02am EDT
Thats not the militarys job. Cant blame them for border security. That belongs to border control and HLS.
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Sarah Honenberger Oct 25, 2007, 2:18am EDT
Thorough and informative. I will watch for your next article. So much more worthwhile than the articles about someone complaining about their neighbor's dog barking in the night. My response is, call them back the next night, same midnight hour, and tell them you don't own a dog. Thanks, S.
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Pamela Ann Cruthis Holyfield Oct 25, 2007, 3:45am EDT
I say; Bring our soldiers home and END this WAR!


writerlover
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John Knight Oct 25, 2007, 4:18am EDT
Ty,

No one is "blaming" the military for anything. They are victims too.
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Centrist Citizen Oct 25, 2007, 9:50am EDT
"Centrist, I agree. But as we are not going to go to war with them, that scenario does not matter. Likewise, my opinion that we can destroy them does not matter either as we are not going to go to war."

Ty Phoo,
But then are many who are itching to go into Iran… what do u say to them? I hope u right abt not invading Iran but it's just that I have lost trust in the American govt.

"we are still the greatest military power on the planet"

We are most powerful military in the world, greatest.. I m not sure as that is more subjective. It be true from our point of view but to others they are just evil. But at least, u are better than those who we are the most powerful military in the history of mankind... how retarded! It's like taunting Romans that "look we have live telecast our games, could u do that for ur fights in the Colosseum". One should always compare ourselves in our own era. Most countries today would be many times powerful & stronger if they were to fight army from 1000 A.D. But since we don't have a time machine, we can't. Our strength is due to the modern weaponry we have & not coz we have some super humans on our side. But we have to make sure, we stay ahead of the curve in order to maintain the upper hand.
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Karl Leuba Oct 25, 2007, 10:44am EDT
Ty Phoon, the last fight I personally had I lost. The winner is now a fugitive from justice. Winning a war of aggression is NOT WINNING. It is loosing. I suppose that the USA can sustain itself without any imported energy, computers, televisions, cars or food, but it will not be the same without those things. WE CAN WIN...AND SLOWLY DIE FOR DOING IT.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 11:09am EDT
Centrist, there are a lot of people who want to go to war with Iran. But they do not hold any position of power. Bush cannot act with military force by himself for more than 90 days without approval from Congress, and the military does not have to follow orders from the President, since they pledge their loyalty to the Constitution, not the President. War with Iran may come, but not any time soon.

Karl, Iraq was not a war of aggression. The Iraqi government under Saddam is the only group that can be held responsible for this war. Congress gave 23 reasons to go to war, and almost all of them were the result of something Saddam did. Going to war with Iraq was not a mistake. The only mistake was not ending this war.

On a side note, the US can survive without that stuff, because we can supply our own stuff. We make our own cars, foof, comptuers, TV, and we can make a lot more oil. The US has over 1.2 trillion barrels of oil (thats trillion with a T). We can survive this war, but Congress has to lessen its restrictions on this country.
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Centrist Citizen Oct 25, 2007, 11:39am EDT
The Congress will stop the President. The very same Congress that doesn't have the backbone to stop this Iraq war.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 11:44am EDT
Its not a matter of stopping him, Centrist. Its a matter of not giving him authorization. He cannot do anything without approval. Congress blocked the last attempt to authorize force against Iran. They will do it again.
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Centrist Citizen Oct 25, 2007, 12:28pm EDT
Didn't we designate the Special forces of Iran as a terrorist organization. Doesn't that give the President to attack the bases & forces of this group. What will the attack on this group lead to? Retaliation from Iran & then of course Congress vl go ahead & give the OK as we vl need to protect our nation then.

ty phoon, i wish I had the optimism & trust u have in the administration. After all the lies, deceit & the trampling of liberties... i have lost faith. :(
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Clarke M. Oct 25, 2007, 2:30pm EDT
Centrist Cit,
You don't understand what the Revolutionary Guard is. It is a distinct branch of the Government, like our Pentagon , Department of Defense, Army, Navy, Air Force etc. It is functions like a corporation in that it contracts with businesses domestically internationally to supply its needs, plays a role in determining Govt.policy, does its independent research and development and so on. It has moderates and hard-liners. When Condolezza Rice met at the leaders of Middle East countries at the conference in Egypt recently, and , for the first time ther was "official" US contact with Iranian representatives in 27 years (although the US worked closely with Iran in 2001 , which made it is possible for the US to defeat the Taleban and establish a government in Afghanistan) , one of the two top Iranian respresentatives present was an influential member of the Revolutionary Guard, a moderate one. To declare the Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization is as absurd as saying the Pentagon, the CIA, the Army or the Navy is one.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 3:11pm EDT
Maybe centrist. But we also call Hamas a terrorist organization. Why dont we go after them? Its just not worth it.

Centrist, I dont have a lot of faith in the government any more. Its the military that I trust and have so much respect for. Most of the stuff that Bush says about the war comes from Petraeus and Odierno. The Military is one of the few sectors of the government that I still respect and trust.
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Centrist Citizen Oct 25, 2007, 4:43pm EDT
Clark.... I never said that we were right to designate the Revolutionary Guards as a terrorist organization. In fact, I completely agree with this statement of yours "To declare the Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization is as absurd as saying the Pentagon, the CIA, the Army or the Navy is one."

I am just surprised what kind of dumb retards did we elect to make policies for us.
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Timothy V. Oct 25, 2007, 8:13pm EDT
" Thats not the militarys job. Cant blame them for border security. That belongs to border control and HLS "

Oh yeah, really? Then why are there National Guard Troops stationed on the border?

Oh and BTW, that's ' Border Patrol ' ....not ' Border Control '

Please forgive ty phoon. She is in the Military and an obvious victim of their propaganda.
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ty phoon Oct 25, 2007, 9:38pm EDT
Tim, first of all, thanks for correcting me.

The National Guard is there to assist Border Patrol, not to tell them what to do.

I may be in the military, but I am not a "victim of propaganda." I have seen the situation first hand, and I know what is right.
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sally r. Oct 25, 2007, 10:43pm EDT
Good Article, David. I appreciate the e-mail directing me here. I sincerely hope we do not attack another Country because of nuclear scare news from our Administration. We have already seen where their intentions lead. We do not have the military we need to fight on more fronts. I do not agree with the privitization already going on in the wars we are involved in. We, as a nation, cannot afford to support private enterprise, and it has been stated that in order for us to fight the good fight we have HAD to hire private enterprise in order to free up our military personnel to fight the wars we are currently fighting. I just don't see how we can stretch our military forces any further.
Of course, I am one that wants our guys home from Iraq, now. We went over because of weapons of mass destruction. There were none, there are none. Bring them home.
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Mischelle T. Oct 26, 2007, 12:16am EDT
You always give such good news, well not "good" news, but informative!
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Kathleen ♥ L. Oct 26, 2007, 11:36am EDT
Very informative article, David. Interesting coments too.
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Tina Coruth Oct 27, 2007, 12:02am EDT
Very informative article. Bush and Cheney are behaving much as they did leading up to the invasion of Iraq. I think one morning we will wake up to find that we have bombed Iran. Bush and Cheney think president is a synonym for king. I am not optimistic. I don't believe they want to "give peace a chance."