by Peter Joseph Swanson
Member since:
April 13, 2007

Did Jesus have a wife and kids?

October 05, 2007 11:40 AM EDT
views: 944 | comments: 111

DNA testing has proven the Da Vinci Code stuff (with Jesus' family becoming a line of French aristocracy) all fiction.

 

But there is strong cultural evidence that Jesus had a wife and kids.  What is this cultural evidence?  It's just that to be a Jewish man in those times, at that place, meant you HAD to.  You weren't given a choice.  Even if you were an obvious huge girly pansy, too bad, you had that marriage, they all made sure of it.  No choice.

 

If kids didn't come out of the marriage, because someone was barren, a HUGE deal was made of it.   These things were very big deals at the time.  If he somehow wiggled out of it, a HUGE deal would have been made of it, and everyone would have never stopped making a big deal of it, since it would have been such a monstrous aberration to the society.  He would have been like an "outlaw" and he was never called anything like that.

 

In fact, he was called Rabbi by his own people, and to be called that you HAD to have a wife and kids.  Or else you just don't get called that.

 

The Syrian Orthodox Church assumes they come from Jesus' earthly family.  So this isn't a new radical idea.  The Syrian Orthodox Church is as old and conservative as you can get, regarding this matter.    

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Comments: 111

Kelly M. Oct 5, 2007, 11:43am EDT
Interesting question..
Kathleen**Hair is my LIFE!*** K. Oct 5, 2007, 11:44am EDT
No he didn't. It was explained to me during a discussion of the DaVinci Code. NO!
juley g. Oct 5, 2007, 11:46am EDT
I think this is a great topic but I don't really know how I feel either way.
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 11:53am EDT
really i'm not old enough to have been there, but I truly believe he died before he could have married.
☃ Aunt Shanny Oct 5, 2007, 11:53am EDT
More importantly, who cares?
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 11:54am EDT
There is no proff he was gay either .
Kathleen**Hair is my LIFE!*** K. Oct 5, 2007, 11:54am EDT
Shame on you chive!
Charity M. Oct 5, 2007, 11:55am EDT
((( MY heart says ........................................NO )))
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 11:55am EDT
You had to get married back then even if you were gay. Unless you ran away, I guess, and joined the Roman Navy - WOOT!!!!

They took DNA from some old bones of this French family line and found it contained NO middle eastern DNA in it at all. It was ALL typical European DNA.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 11:56am EDT
Didn't he die at 30? - that was getting old for the time. You got married off at 16, I bet.
Dawn (a kitty-kin on the wall) Aug 5, 2009, 6:54pm EDT
maybe 12
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 11:57am EDT
You had to be able to support a wife, which Jesus couldn't, before you got married.
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 11:58am EDT
The women maybe but the men had to be able to support a family .
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 11:59am EDT
The women may have be married off at 16 but not the men
John M. Oct 5, 2007, 12:08pm EDT
He hung out with twelve guys with a penchant for sandals and robes and showy displays. I think he was gay.
John M. Oct 5, 2007, 12:09pm EDT
Oh like Chive said.

Should have read comments before commenting.
Melanie S. Oct 5, 2007, 12:09pm EDT
Chive- You may want to go read it again. No one stated what you are suggesting. Peter stated a particular linage of a French family was tested and found negative for a possibility for linking DNA to Jesus.

Peter- To be honest, I can't say either way. Nor can anyone else as a matter of fact. There can be theories, beliefs and opinions but as of right now there is no way to know for certain.

Just because it wasn't in the bible does not mean it isn't a possibility. There are many things unexplained and left out of the bible.
John M. Oct 5, 2007, 12:10pm EDT
Blessed are those who are ridden with scurvy and rickets...multivitams shall be theirs in the kingdom of heaven.
Monica H. Oct 5, 2007, 12:11pm EDT
Very interesting!!! I don't know-------I'm still having trouble understanding are Jesus and God the same thing. It's all very confusing.
Melanie S. Oct 5, 2007, 12:13pm EDT
Chive- No offense but do you need glasses, or perhaps your prescription changed?

DNA testing has proven the Da Vinci Code stuff (with Jesus' family becoming a line of French aristocracy) all fiction.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:13pm EDT
The assumptions of the Syrian Orthodox Church undermines Christianity?

A wife and kids certainly undermines Roman Catholic tradition, but how does it undermine Christianity. They get their teaching from Saint Paul but Jesus didn't even know him. Paul came later.

We've all grown up with Christianity being fed to us far more through a Roman Catholic filter than an Orthodox one.
True American Oct 5, 2007, 12:14pm EDT
i agree with John M, he was having gay orgies with all those dudes. they might have brought in a chic or 2 to join in on the festivities.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:15pm EDT
The Da Vinci code is all fiction. There are no relatives of Jesus living in France.

The Syrian Orthodox Church is real. That's a different matter.
Melanie S. Oct 5, 2007, 12:16pm EDT
I think that if anything cracks me up the most Peter. All these people getting into a huge huff and puff because of a book of fiction. It's fiction folks. Calm down.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:17pm EDT
The 12 disciples thing was far more a witchcraft coven model thing, not a gay both house thing.

That's not saying they didn't have sex. That's another matter, though. YOu don't have to be in or out of a "coven" to have sex.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:17pm EDT
"gay bath house"

not

"gay both house"

ha ha
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:18pm EDT
Just because the Da Vinci code is fiction has nothing to do with the rest of my article!!!!
Kathleen**Hair is my LIFE!*** K. Oct 5, 2007, 12:19pm EDT
Fiction! Not Fact! This is not possible, Peter! This is nothing but BUNK!
Miz Lynn aka/BooBoo Oct 5, 2007, 12:19pm EDT
No.
Kathleen**Hair is my LIFE!*** K. Oct 5, 2007, 12:20pm EDT
What would be the reason it wouldnt' be public knowledge if he was? What makes this church "all knowing"? Never even heard of this church.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:20pm EDT
How is it not possible if your society MAKES you?

EVERYBODY GOT MARRIED!!!
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:22pm EDT
Never heard of Syrian Orthodox?!!!

It isn't all knowing, it's just its tradition, for whatever tradition is worth.

Google it!
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:23pm EDT
I'm sure it was public knowledge at the time.

That's how you know you can call him "Rabbi".
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 12:42pm EDT
It IS radical to think of Jesus as married today because of the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church (and how religion has become so anti-sex).

BUT it would have been radical for him NOT to be married in that place and time. The teaching of Saint Paul and the Roman Catholic Church weren't around yet when Jesus was around.
Marci M. Oct 5, 2007, 12:43pm EDT
Wow Peter I wish there was a way to know for sure. This is on of those things I call 'things that make you go hmmmmm'.
The "Da Vinci Code" is loosely based on Elaine Pagels' research. "Law and Order" would say "Inspired by actual events" about a story like that. "Da Vinci" also incorporates various elements of Templar legends and other staples of belief in various occult groups. "The Da Vinci Code" is a story, a very poorly written story with cardboard characters and a transparent wheeze of a plot. A much better book that uses many of the same elements is Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum."

Hate to say it but Christianity is a syncretic combination of Judaism and various mystery religions from the Mediterranean region that all centered on a resurrection myth. The symbolism was the change of seasons and spring planting. Note that Jesus birth is very close to the Winter Solstice and his resurrection is at the beginning of spring. The New Testament was compiled in the second and third centuries, long after the events described. By then there was a church hierarchy that had a strong interest in having an "official" version.

Biblical archaeology is tricky stuff. First century history of Palestine is murky since it's mostly Rome centric. There are a lot of details about Jesus' life that are unsupported by what we know from history and archaeology.

Christopher Moore's "The Gospel According to Biff" provides an explanation for a lot.
Mark J. Oct 5, 2007, 12:59pm EDT
Wow Peter, you must be racking up the points big time. Speaking as the out gay man in the room, the terms homosexual and gay were not coined until the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Was there same sex love and attraction in biblical times? Yes. Was Jesus in a same sex sexual relationship? Beats me. Was Jesus married? I think the question is a bit incindeary and I am going to pull out my marshmallows and enjoy the flame here for awhile.
Mark J. Oct 5, 2007, 1:14pm EDT
The chive - I disagree about the "serious" christians not being threatened. I know for a fact that the Vatican and other conservative trheologians made a big stink about debunking the book. I am often amused that a work of fiction can get people's danders up. You could do a Google news search and see all the articles that came out during the time. They are still coming out.

http://newsblaze.com/story/20070920120149tsop.np/newsblaze/NEWSWIRE/NewsBlaze-Wire.html

Regardless of the subject matter the question of "what if" has always played a role in the human experience. This is no different. I am having fun with this are you?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:16pm EDT
Let's not worry about the claims of a work of fiction (Da Vinci Code).

But how about the tradition of a certain Orthodox church, and the traditions of Jesus' time?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:20pm EDT
Christianity looks a lot like the "cult" of Isis and Mithra-ism. There's even a healthy dollop of African ritual cannibalism (eating God).

Jesus really knew his traditions of many religions and their rituals and he used them. But considering he grew up in a bustling Roman melting pot, hey why not?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:21pm EDT
There's also finally some of the Adventures of Hercules in there.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:22pm EDT
C.S. Lewis said that that proved it was true.
WS R. Oct 5, 2007, 1:25pm EDT
Oh brother. I am really rolling my eyes here. Obviously if you don't believe the Bible is the written word of God, you're going to be thinking all that wacked out stuff. To each their own, I guess.
Mark J. Oct 5, 2007, 1:25pm EDT
Actually if you look at Jesus' time the "established" church, in this case Judaism was what Jesus was bucking against. Many of his teachings point out the apparent hypocrisy of that thought system. He also admonished the system for not taking care of "widows and orphans".
Joe T. Oct 5, 2007, 1:27pm EDT
The evidence that I've read about claims that he had two daughters but no sons. If he had sons there might have been a bloodline to refer to but there isn't. Jesus was an interesting man to be sure. It's difficult to say if he had a wife and children because there isn't any notion of a family line. I think it is entirely possible that he had daughters who became part of other families. Considering the times, Jesus was likely to have taken a wife.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:30pm EDT
There is a notion of a family line THE SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH says it is.

That's one notion.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:33pm EDT
Mark, all Jews got to buck the system back then. The Jewish religion was very "open" to things like that (making criticisms, IF you were a "Rabbi".). What Jesus did in making his criticisms was just what one had every right to do. It changed though after the Romans tried to crush it for good after the big rebellion of 100 A.D. and the Temple got torn down.
Larry M. Oct 5, 2007, 1:35pm EDT
The truth of what Jesus said doesn't depend upon his marital state.

If Jesus had children and descendents living today then most of the people in the world are probably descended from him.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:36pm EDT
Why do I keep repeating the thing about the Syrian Orthodox Church saying it is the family line?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:38pm EDT
Jesus got to criticize Jewish things, being a Jew. Thats what they all did a lot of back then. He wasn't the only one.

He didn't get to criticize Rome, though, that gets you killed right away. And they did. He wasn't the only one, there , too.
Joe T. Oct 5, 2007, 1:42pm EDT
It's interesting that people think that a man-made and created book comes from a supreme being. It doesn't. There is nothing wrong with it but it is not from God. God is so much more than any book. Too bad for some people.
John M. Oct 5, 2007, 1:43pm EDT
I read on here a while ago an amazing comparison between jesus and horus (of the egyptian horuses). they were shockingly similar down to some pretty intricate details.

here's a website that shows them side by side:
http://www.paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com/
comparsison_horus_jesus_chart.htm
Judaism is unusual among religions. Jews have a tradition of scholarship going waaay back. People study the Bible and Bible commentary and argue about it. Criticism and change are Jewish institutions.

In Jewish tradition Talmudic scholars were supported by their family. I had a great grandfather who did it for a living.
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 1:51pm EDT
I really don't see why people are arguing with Peter. His logic is absolutely flawless. You should be a scientist, Peter. Doesn't everyone think Peter should be a scientist?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:52pm EDT
If Jesus was God at the same time that he was a man then did he have to brush his teeth? Could he get cavities?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:53pm EDT
I AM A NOVEIST!!!

read my novels!!!!

I read that Jesus was also a lot like Merlin, if you want to do comparitive religions. I like reading about Merlin.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 1:55pm EDT
(what's a noveist?)

"NOVELIST!!!"

ha ha
Denise B. Oct 5, 2007, 2:01pm EDT
interesting question
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 2:17pm EDT
I like Merlin, too.
Mark J. Oct 5, 2007, 2:19pm EDT
What's the sound of one Novelist clapping?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 2:21pm EDT
I am nothing unless I am read.

NOTHING!!!!
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 2:22pm EDT
I wrote a novel about Merlin that will come out in a few years!!!

YAY!
ann c. Oct 5, 2007, 2:42pm EDT
You believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe!
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 2:44pm EDT
Has any of you ever read the Bible , good grief !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! most of the twelve were married. duh !! and Mary and other women followed them around. If you don't know what you are talking about maybe you should check it out first. I have read the Bible from cover to cover. It is a history of a people and it was written for uneducated people over a thousand years ago. I have no Idea if Jesus was married' I dought it. but I believe ! and I don't think it makes me stupid or a believer in fairy tales. There is some great advice in the book. wheither you believe or not

btw The Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are the same.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 2:54pm EDT
I went to a Bible school so read the Bible for 9 years.

I now wonder about all that Bible that was was thrown away, first by Saint Jerome, and then by the Conference of Nicea. What interesting tidbits might have survived into modern times if we had it all.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 2:56pm EDT
It would also be neat to know what Jesus said, what words he used. He didn't speak King James, that's for sure.
Carol LeHane Oct 5, 2007, 3:15pm EDT
Joe T.,

Your comment about continuing a bloodline only through male heirs is contrary to what we have learned through genetics and ancient Judaic law which if I understand it correctly maintained, that for a child to be considered a Jew his/her mother must be a Jew. The idea of preserving the purity of a male bloodline has been behind the subjugation of women for thousands of years!
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 3:16pm EDT
I don't believe a lot of what most religious sects say about being dammed to hell ( which is not really a place but we can talk about that some other time) If God is so all mighty and so foregiving why would he dam someone because of the way they talk or who they love and so on. Alot of what we are taught couldn't be right !! Thats why I read it for my self. The Bible contradicts itself so often. It leaves so much to guess at. I think It all boils down to loveing and caring about one another. why shouldn't we embrace one another for all of our differences, celebrate each others beliefs. We are all so wonderfuly made !
Vivian P. Oct 5, 2007, 3:18pm EDT
My-daughter-in-law is jewish so I guess my grandkids are too
M & M. Oct 5, 2007, 3:18pm EDT
No, he was not married. He was a virgin. He was pure.
donna h. Oct 5, 2007, 3:23pm EDT
I think it is possible, but the truth is..we will never truly know..
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 3:51pm EDT
Where does it say Jesus was a virgin?

And what does sex have to do with "pure"???
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 4:09pm EDT
Hmmm...pure like Ivory Soap pure? I love how people speak in absolutes about human beings that lived thousands of years ago, based on books that were written all over the place by anonymous writers, then edited, deleted to and added to over the years in between. Ah, the illogic of the human mind.
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 4:09pm EDT
Hey, Chive - did you really trademark The Bible? Did you also grab the URL's?
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 4:21pm EDT
Hmmm.....got "Lord" as well, I see.

Hey, try these:
www.newtestament.com
www.oldtestament.com
www.hellfireanddamnation.com
www.jesuslovesmethisiknow.com
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 4:44pm EDT
We don't know about sex but I think turning water into wine would make him my best friend! And then a few years later he can heal my liver!

We all need friends like that!
Carol LeHane Oct 5, 2007, 4:45pm EDT
Chive,

Your last comment had me in stiches.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 4:45pm EDT
It was good wine, too!
Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. Oct 5, 2007, 4:50pm EDT
Well . . . there's no mention of a marriage or a wife and no marriage certificate. :P Besides, surrendering to animal passion and lust would be against Genesis 1:28 ". . . subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. " Symbolizing body, mind and spirit . . . an eloquent theory which works out quite well in the original Aramaic. Man has been directed to master those three things . . . and as Jesus was perfect . . . he decidedly did so. Uhhhhhh . . . if you believe he did or if you believe he did not . . . only one truthy can be the truth and it matters very little since it cannot be proven either way.

But IF he was married . . . do you suppose she was 'Hot'? And did he sing that song . . . "If I were a carpenter . . . and you were a lady . . . " since, as God, he'd be omniscient and know the words before they were written.

Let me save you a keystroke or two Peter . . . the Syrian Orthodox Church is saying it is the family line.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
G. M. Lupo Oct 5, 2007, 4:51pm EDT
All we know about Jesus comes from the gospels, anonymous works written, in some cases, a hundred years after Jesus supposedly lived. The earliest gospel is Mark's and it was written around 70 CE so the author, in all likelihood, wouldn't have known Jesus personally or witnessed any of what he was writing about. Matthew and Luke are based on Mark and use huge chunks of Mark in their writings. John tells a completely different story about a completely different man. If you believe the Jesus of Mark, you can't believe the Jesus of John and vice versa.
Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. Oct 5, 2007, 4:54pm EDT
LoL! - I always thought pothead would be more likely than speedfreak if anything . . . then again . . . that would explain all that walking on water stuff . . . It was fast, it was shallow and after three nights up healing and tossing fish to the masses you'd be surprised what you might see. :P

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 4:56pm EDT
Chive - you kidster, you. You didn't know that? Jesus loves weed, too.....don't you feel the love?
Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. Oct 5, 2007, 4:59pm EDT
You must have seen Robin William's bit about the big G getting high as he designed the platypus to 'mess with Darwin'! It was good stuff.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 4:59pm EDT
GM - you are amazingly well-informed and well-spoken for a boy of 8.

Something you have not considered, Peter, is that Jesus' situation may have been more akin to a civil union or a domestic partnership. I am not familiar with the divorce laws of the time, but they may have been quite harsh. GM? Anything on divorce?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 5:13pm EDT
Would they have done civil unions like that, Jews? What would be the point if society expected you to get "married"?
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 5:24pm EDT
Hey, did this turn in to a Gather game? It has 100 comments! I should have titled it 100 Comments - Jesus had a Wife and Kids?

I would have gotten even more, maybe. People could also name other words that start with "J"!!!
Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. Oct 5, 2007, 5:50pm EDT
Jumpin' Jehosephat! My 2 point contribution.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 5, 2007, 6:03pm EDT
Thank you Doyle.
paul w. Oct 5, 2007, 7:54pm EDT
As my older kid might say, "OMG, this thread is the BEST ever!" Of course, it woulda been better if she might've started with "OMJ", but then, she's Jewish and wouldn't've thunk that.

It looks like I missed most of the fun, but thanks!

Oh, and for the game: Jonah
Ron B. Oct 5, 2007, 8:51pm EDT
Jesus had rarely mentioned siblings and might have had a wife and slew of kids, but I'll never know for sure. If some of the paintings and drawings are anywhere near correct, he had neat hair.
Elizabeth E. Oct 5, 2007, 9:23pm EDT
I am going the Catholic route here...I was taught that Mary Magdelene was a "lady of the night" and she kissed Jesus's feet and wiped his face during the crucifixtion and his face imprint stayed on the cloth....as I grew older and wiser..I had heard varying stories on this philosphy..I would be interested to know more.
Sheryl O. Oct 5, 2007, 9:55pm EDT
Wait, Ron has a good point here (besides the hair). Jesus was ALWAYS talking about people being his brothers and sisters! Mary COULDN'T HAVE BEEN A VIRGIN!

Peter - do you know what kind of Pandora's box you have opened up here?

(Jebediah)
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Oct 5, 2007, 10:22pm EDT
I believe Jesus ate marshmallows, even it if isn't true.
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Oct 5, 2007, 10:26pm EDT
(I also believe Jesus asked Judas for that kiss)
Sandra T. Oct 5, 2007, 10:50pm EDT
I don't see why Jesus couldn't have been married and had kids! He was a good Jewish male then!
agnes m. Oct 6, 2007, 12:45am EDT
no one knows for sure
Heidianna "Coriander" T. Oct 6, 2007, 7:40am EDT
Oh, it's wild fun to guess as to what really happened... Will we ever know for sure? Doubtful.
James B. Oct 6, 2007, 9:48am EDT
I don't understand why such a fuss is made over whether or not Jesus had a sexual life.
Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 6, 2007, 10:19am EDT
Some people just have trouble REALLY imagining Jesus as real with skin, pores and poop. He is Sunday School paintings and 100 per cent pure plaster paris.

(And maybe he had yucky hair in real life)
G. M. Lupo Oct 6, 2007, 11:25am EDT
Sheryl, I don't know about the divorce laws of the time. Since the saying goes that which god has joined shall never be parted, I assume it was against Jewish law to divorce one's wife. In all likelihood the laws would have favored the man anyway. In other words, I man might be able to get rid of his wife for supposedly just cause but I woman wouldn't have had the same right. I believe, when a man died, the next oldest male relative would marry his widow to keep everything in the family.

I'd assume the customs weren't that much different than in the current Middle East. As they say, the more things change...