During my 7 and a half months here at Gather as a political correspondent I’ve come to realize that many Republicans tend to think they have some kind of inside track on what Democrats REALLY think. For these guys anything a Democrat says has some sort of hidden meaning. But as is with a cheating spouse, it’s the cheater who is most likely to accuse the innocent partner of being the one doing the cheating. A psychologist once told me that the motive for this behavior is that the cheater is incapable of believing that everyone isn’t cheating as well.
I suppose it is difficult for Republicans to believe Democrats are straight forward in their statements regarding issues when it has been common practice for them to be deceptive about theirs for so long. Therefore, in this article we will examine a few of the issues debated by the Left and Right and how the Republicans try to rewrite the Left’s motivations.
Republican lie number 1.
When Democrats argue for raising the minimum wage or that all workers deserve a “living wage” they are really demanding something for nothing.
A person would have to first assume workers who earn less than a living wage don’t deserve it to argue against such a thing. They’ll SAY things like “it will hurt businesses and damage the economy.” Yet throughout history this has never been the case. I say that when Republicans argue against fairer compensation for workers, it is THEY who are demanding something for nothing. Advocating the idea that it's ok for a worker to receive less than a living wage is what REALLY amounts to wanting something for nothing.
Republican lie number 2.
Democrats opposition to the Iraq war and President Bush’s policies amounts to hatred for America and disdain for our troops.
This is probably one of the most disingenuous lies Republicans tell. Even they don’t believe that, yet they will repeat it over and over. I have to wonder why the Republicans can’t understand that the Democrats opposition to this war is BECAUSE we support our military. And that our opposition to Bush is BECAUSE of our love of and loyalty to our country.
Republican lie number 3.
Democrats believe people are incapable of caring for themselves and that it is the governments job to do it for them.
This is another disingenuous lie because they know better. This lie is usually in response to the Democrats call for the government to level the playing field for the disadvantaged or disenfranchised people. The Republicans know full well that we are actually talking about a fairly small percentage of the population, but will insist we mean everyone because they think it makes the Democrats argument look ridiculous.
Republican lie number 4.
The Democratic approach to the war on terrorism amounts to providing aid and comfort to the enemy and an assumption that foreign hatred for America is our own fault. And that their call for the withdrawal of US troops amounts to cutting and running.
Basically it is the Democrats call for an end to the occupation of Iraq that incites this lie. It’s a lie because Democrats have always supported the action in Afghanistan against terrorism and still do. And it is not America per se’ that is at fault for the terrorism problem today. It has been the exploitive behavior of American corporations that has fed the flames of hatred for the U.S. And it has been the clandestine relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi family that has fueled much of it as well. And the idea of withdrawing our troops amounts to a cut and run policy is nuts. except for a few extremists like Kucinich, Democrats are advocating a systematic measured withdrawal.
I could go on, but I think these examples demonstrate the habit of the Right to try and redefine the motives of their opponents as a means of trumping their arguments. And curiously it has been surprisingly effective in the past. Unfortunately for the Republicans, this president has crossed the line of honesty and responsibility so far, that I think it will be some time before the American people give the Republican Party the credibility they once did.
*********************
Devin Barber, Politics Correspondent
Devin’s column, “Left Of The Right” published twice weekly or more to Gather Essentials: Politics is a Blue Collar Democrats take on current political news.
Devin was raised by proud Roosevelt Democrats. Being the son of parents counted among the throng of Americans displaced by the Great Depression has given Devin a deep rooted passion for causes dealing with the poor and the working class.
You can find all of Devin’s columns at http://gather.com/leftoftheright
You can keep up with Devin’s postings and his Gather activity by joining his Gather network. Just click here: http://kiwina58.gather.com and then select the orange “Connect” button on the left-hand side of the page.
You can find Devin and other Political Correspondents, plus celebrity content and plenty of other politics experts at Politics.gather.com.
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Comments: 164
What it comes down to is this...politicians lie....we as the people need to sort through the crap to get to the truth.
Whatever my party of choice says I have to do extensive research on to try and decipher what they actually are meaning. Credibility has been drawn down to zero and I simply can't believe a word they say. Does this mean I will cross the line and vote for the other party as a measure of dissatisfaction next November ... You BETCHA I will.
BTW the so called president has had a slight "surge" in his approval ratings ... ever hear of the term used in the stock markets called: the dead cat bounce?
I am so disgusted and disillusioned with them.
No they don't, that is just another Republican lie. They do it, so they are sure the Democrats do it.
10+
"A person would have to first assume workers who earn less than a living wage don't deserve it to argue against such a thing. They'll SAY things like "it will hurt businesses and damage the economy." Yet throughout history this has never been the case. I say that when Republicans argue against fairer compensation for workers, it is THEY who are demanding something for nothing. Advocating the idea that it ok for a worker to receive less than a living wage is what REALLY amounts to wanting something for nothing."
Do you know who the minimum wage increase hurts? The middle class. By increasing the minimum wage prices increase causing inflation and higher costs of living. Salaried workers of course dont get a raise to compensate for them so their "pay" actually decreases drawing them closer to poverty.
Democratic Lie #2
"This is probably one of the most disingenuous lies Republicans tell. Even they don't believe that, yet they will repeat it over and over. I have to wonder why the Republicans can't understand that the Democrats opposition to this war is BECAUSE we support our military. And that our opposition to Bush is BECAUSE of our love of and loyalty to our country."
Yes they support the troops as they accuse a decorated four star general with a bronze star as betraying us. That is almost comical. Yes they may give lip service to soldiers but want to run away now ignoring the sacrifices that many soldiers have made.
Democratic Lie #3
This is another disingenuous lie because they know better. This lie is usually in response to the Democrats call for the government to level the playing field for the disadvantaged or disenfranchised people. The Republicans know full well that we are actually talking about a fairly small percentage of the population, but will insist we mean everyone because they think it makes the Democrats argument look ridiculous.
"level the playing field" that is almost comical why dont you call it what it is. Robin Hood government or nanny government. You want to take from some and give to others in the name of good. Americans are charitable by nature but should be able to do it volunarily. We should not be taxed for people who many refuse to put an effort into making something for themselves.
Democratic Lie #4
Basically it is the Democrats call for an end to the occupation of Iraq that incites this lie. It's a lie because Democrats have always supported the action in Afghanistan and still do. And it is not America per se' that is at fault for the terrorism problem today. It has been the exploitive behavior of American corporations that has fed the flames of hatred for the U.S. And it has been the clandestine relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi family that has fueled much of it as well.
Many Dems have not supported Afghanistan but besides that. It is interesting that you have spun away from military to a realtionship between corporations and bush both of which are irrelevant. cutting and running or surrending in Iraq will leave an area that will allow Al Queda to operate freely just like they did in Afghanistan
No they don't, that is just another Republican lie. They do it, so they are sure the Democrats do it"
You really dont believe that BS do you Devin if you do you are a true believer. Just look up Congressman Jefferson. We was good and being truthful as he took bribe money and stuffed it in the freezer.
Jay said:
"WHAT HAPPENS IN CRAWFORD, STAYS IN CRAWFORD!"
Legally, the definition of is was important, as in that legal proceeding, The Paula Jones affair, the definition of sex was defined extremely strictly, and excluded what he was talking about. Other than in court, yes he lied, but there was no law against that. But on the record, he had good legal reasons for the depends on what your definition of is is thing.
Lori, Bill Clinton's only mistake was his choice of gwad awful ugly, stupid, naive women. Other than that "crime" he did an excellent job domestically, internationally and with the economy.
How's that, a republican defending a democrat.
You know Publius, I've been on this earth 53 years, and heard that economic tripe you spout so many times, and then we see what actually happens, and it's not anything like that. That's a fairy tale the rich tell the less rich to get them to buy their crap, and that's what it is, crap.
01. Raising the minimum wage is a ludacris game o smoke and mirrors that the democrats play to make poor people think they are on their side. So that poor people will vote for them. Even they dumbest democrat amoung us knows that when the minimum wae goes up it does nothing but drive the cost of things up. In most instances it actually drives the cost of living hire than it was preciously ing poor people poorer.
02. No, Dem Senators going to Syria and telling te people of that country that the Iraq war is an illegal occupation,is treason and amounts to hatred of america.
Former Dem presidental candidates saying that are troops are un educated, amounts to disdain for our troops.
Dem Senators and Reps that say our troops are sneaking into homes like thieves i the night and murdering, killing and raping civilians, is disdain for our troops.
Calling a decorated warrior a traitor because you disagree with him is disdain for our military. By the way many Dems no longer support the war in Afghanastan.
03. The majority of peoplere tired of taking care of those who don't want to take care of themselves.
04. Obviously you missed the tape recording of the dems discussng their slow bleed cut and run screw the troops stategy that the rest of the world heard. Oh and I think Sheiks Kucinich and Byrds actions and statements speak for themselves. OOps did I say Sheiks I meant Senators. We won't even go into moveon.bull.
"Democrats opposition to the Iraq war and President Bush's policies amounts to hatred for America and disdain for our troops."
Dems hate all policies of Bush because, first and foremost, they hate Bush and as such are unreasonable. I do believe Dems do want us out of Iraq becaues they believe it's a loss and we are prolonging the war and the spilling of blood. Republicans think we can 'win' the war -- ie change the political culture of the Middle East, and we also know that to not succeed would be very dangerous and MORE blood would be spilled by just cutting and running.
Once again, have you gone back and apologized to Max Cleland, John McCain, John Murtha, and John Kerry yet? If not, you have no right even mentioning this.
Gather the wagons, the indians are on the warpath, lol
I hope Colin Powell see the errors of his ways and joins the democrats he will have a career outside of the military
How so? What has Bush specifically done? I'm quite certain corporations have been making money a long time before Bush.
One more time, the only aholes calling Petraeus a traitor have been conservative spin jocks, the word does not appear in that ad, it is a conservative ploy to frame the debate, and a lame one.
This is another example of Conservative spin, if you watch the whole tape it is obvious Kerry was talking about Bush, not the troops, but they were successful in getting that spin adopted by the media, who entirely quit showing the whole tape immediately because they ran with the controversy, but this is a blatant lie. I watched it late that evening, on CNN and they showed the whole tape, and said that republicans were saying he insulted the troops, but the two news people ran the whole thing and both said it was obvious to them he was talking about Bush, but that was the last time I saw it, they went with the scandal from then on to up their ratings.
Caught with your pants down again and you can spin it however you want, but the TROOPS knew exactly what he said and replied in kind:
So are the troops making it up, Budi? Are they lying too? Tell us how you really feel ;)
As is.....
The networks went with the scandal, and that abridged version and your bullshit is all they ever saw, so no, not from their point of view. It's amusing though, like the flawed intelligence from the white house, you tell a lie, and then cite someone you lied to, like the senators and congressmen, and then say they corroborate your view.
"By increasing the minimum wage prices increase causing inflation and higher costs of living."
Not true. Inflation is caused by printing money without backing . . . something your buddy Geo. II is VERY good at. Inflation WILL rise.
"Yes they support the troops as they accuse a decorated four star general with a bronze star as betraying us."
What a shocker! Geo. II has been right the WHOLE time according to Patreus! What a hypocritical fool! Budi said it all . . . and these guys didn't violate their vow to uphold and defend the US Constitution by telling the boss what he wanted to hear regardless of how it hurt the country. For GOD'S sake . . . Republicans painted Sen. Max Cleland, a veteran who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam, as soft on national security! What colossal crap you guys dish out! It's ONLY about winning. Screw the country.
"You want to take from some and give to others in the name of good."
The money (BILLIONS) being spent monthly on Defense is NOT to preotect the mother of 4 in an apartment . . . it's to protect the RICH! Let them pay for it! Who really earns a million or more each month by their labor? How come you don't bitch about corporate welfare?
"cutting and running or surrending in Iraq will leave an area that will allow Al Queda to operate freely just like they did in Afghanistan "
And still do in Pakistan, our ally! Good thing we're in Iraq, huh? I'll give up my hand lotion and then we'll be safe here with Geo. II, since rifles can't shoot from Iraq to LA . . . and nobody will walk across the Mexican border or Geo. II would have sealed it, right? Frankly, we're MUCH more likely to be harmed by corporations and Geo. II than Al Qaeda.
Lori
Devon's right. Pube's an idiot.
Patrick:
"Other than that "crime" he did an excellent job domestically, internationally and with the economy."
He committed NO crime at all and was exonerated. Perjury was not a crime he committed. Perjury requires you to lie under oath about a material fact. His consensual relationship with Monica was not material to the Whitewater investigation, in which he was also exonerated. Lying under oath is not perjury. He never committed a criminal act.
Shawn:
"No, Dem Senators going to Syria and telling te people of that country that the Iraq war is an illegal occupation,is treason and amounts to hatred of america."
No, it does neither. The statement alone shows how little you know.
"...it does nothing but drive the cost of things up."
Not true. Do you have a ource or are you just repeating crap you hear?
"Former Dem presidental candidates saying that are troops are un educated, amounts to disdain for our troops."
OR . . . it means they have eliminated High School graduation as a requirement for the incoming cannon fodder.
"Dem Senators and Reps that say our troops are sneaking into homes like thieves i the night and murdering, killing and raping civilians, is disdain for our troops."
And yet, the convictions are coming in. Maybe it's just the truth. You've never even talked to a veteran, have you?
"Calling a decorated warrior a traitor because you disagree with him is disdain for our military."
Unless you're a RepubliCON I guess . . . see my response to that vile Publius for more.
"The majority of peoplere tired of taking care of those who don't want to take care of themselves."
Pathetic lie from someone without a clue. The country is stolidy progressive now. Your lack of informed knowledge is one reason why that diseased GOP is on the way out for many years to come.
"Sheiks Kucinich and Byrds"
Did they fly the BinLaden's out of the coutry and rub elbows with . . . oh wait . . . that was Geo. II. Did you see the photo above? Pride in ignorance . . . the GOP loves your type!
"Dems hate all policies of Bush because, first and foremost, they hate Bush and as such are unreasonable."
Nothing to do with Anti-American activities, war crimes, corruption or anything else . . . sounds more like your ilk and Clinton, doesn't it? Damn Donnie Boy . . . never seen anyone as proud to open their mouths and prove themselves to be a fool like you are.
"change the political culture of the Middle East"
So Geo. II was lying to you when he claimed he'd not be nation building. When he bends you over a fencepost somewhere, you'll believe him when he tells you this is goona hurt me more than you too. What a fool.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
You know, that's changing, Don:
It seems they are starting to see through something. It's brown, it's stinky, and it's Republican.
"since the start of the iraq war in 2003, members of the u.s. military have dramatically increased their political contributions to democrats, marching sharply away from the party they've long supported. in the 2002 election cycle, the last full cycle before the war began, democrats received a mere 23 percent of military members' contributions.* so far this year, 40 percent of military money has gone to democrats for congress and president, according to the nonpartisan center for responsive politics. anti-war presidential candidates barack obama and ron paul are the top recipients of military money.
and who gets the most military money among repubbbs?
among gop candidates, ron paul, the only republican who opposes the war, has brought in the biggest haul from the military since the start of the 2008 election cycle in january—at least $19,250."
You are wrong. It has happened in Florida and the data proves it. We have an annual minimum wage adjustment and on July 1st every year it increaes and over the next few months more people who did not need government assistance do based on a higher standard of living.
"Republicans painted Sen. Max Cleland, a veteran who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam, as soft on national security! What colossal crap you guys dish out! It's ONLY about winning. Screw the country."
The differnce is that was years later and they accused him of that based on his votes in the senate. There is a big difference between cleland and the general
"You want to take from some and give to others in the name of good."
"The money (BILLIONS) being spent monthly on Defense is NOT to preotect the mother of 4 in an apartment . . . it's to protect the RICH! Let them pay for it! Who really earns a million or more each month by their labor? How come you don't bitch about corporate welfare?"
The money spent of national defense is to protect us all. I have compained about corporate welfare on other threads. Thanks!
"And still do in Pakistan, our ally! Good thing we're in Iraq, huh? I'll give up my hand lotion and then we'll be safe here with Geo. II, since rifles can't shoot from Iraq to LA . . . and nobody will walk across the Mexican border or Geo. II would have sealed it, right? Frankly, we're MUCH more likely to be harmed by corporations and Geo. II than Al Qaeda."
We should get tougher in Pakistan and we should seal our borders. The ideas that the President and corporations are worse than Al Queda is assanine and shows your intelligence.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
I will get the study for you. It has been a huge problem for state employees and public servants in Florida. They linked it directly to the minimum wage increase.
Anti-American is vile. Truth hurts, donut.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Ok . . . so you're soft if you're honest . . . no matter how many limbs you've lost defending the country. To bad he didn't cut and run like George, huh?
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Here is my question and granted, it's quite theoretical and probably most impractical, so don't jump on me before at least considering it -- at least consider it.
Suppose there is some truth on both sides of the argument
for the 4 statements Devin brought forth --
HEY! PUT YOUR GUNS DOWN!
Just remember, it's just a theoretical question.
We're all Americans here, and ASSUMING (theoretically), we all want the same thing,
and that is,
WHAT IS BEST FOR AMERICA AND AMERICANS,
How do we reach out across the aisles,
across opposing ideologies,
to make that happen?
Thanks for considering this. :=)
This is the typical republibot rhetoric. What you have to understand about their economic agenda, is that they place more value on the corporations and the rich, than they do on the ones that actually do the work, that make the them rich. They see the "employee" as both an asset and a liability. Which keeps the "employee" on the edge of employment. The true value is on the "employee" as without them how would anything get produced, taken to market, and sold. The corporations are administrative, not production.
And as for those lazy, good for nothing "people who many refuse to put an effort into making something for themselves." there should be no excuse for them. So what if they were disabled in a mining accident and can't provide for their families anymore. Or a single mother of three, that's already working 2 jobs, but still can't make ends meet, because her "worthless" husband took of with a younger "chick". And God forbid that we should help some old man who worked ALL his life for the "man" only to be kicked out with a gold plated watch and social insecurity. That is unless he got canned for a younger "employee". You people on the right burn me up. You act like the government has NO entitlement programs for the rich. If anybody really wants to see what the true republibot economic agenda is, go to these 2 address. They show the hypocrisy of the right , and just what the rich would "really" be without the government.
http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/8
http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/6
The people who work for minimum wage deserve to be paid the same rate of compensation as CEO's who's outlandish salaries certainly drive up the cost of all goods!
By that I mean, they are entitled to be able to support their families by working just as any of us are. If there were no minimum wage at all...no government interference, do you think wages would go down for all of us???
I remember deregulating the telephone companies.....my bill used to be 38.00 not it's over $150.00!
You only mentioned Cleland there. Ron mentioned the others and I addressed them on another thread, I will find it and post it back here.
"Ok . . . so you're soft if you're honest . . . no matter how many limbs you've lost defending the country. To bad he didn't cut and run like George, huh?"
That was a decision his voters made. Not me. They were shown his record and voted for someone else. That makes him no less of a hero and patriot. Just going to war does not guarentee public office for life.
Those people are the ones we should help. We should not be always supporting those that refuse to get married because then they would not get a government check. Or those that continue to have more children in order to get higher checks.
I dont know you situation. That is not the case with most with competition. Cable is the most regualted service now and its rates increase rapidly unless they have to compete with telecom and then they go down in place where there is this competiton like Texas.
Oh please. So a 16 year old kid making minimum wage has risen to the level of pay to 'support a family'? Do you people ever THINK about what you say? It's silly. Minimum wage is an entry level wage and anyone stupid or lazy enough to remain at that level of pay deserve what they get.
Devins argument has no problems that can be fixed. My theory on government is giving states more power because they can better provide for the needs of their citizens what we need in Florida is not what is needed in Montana. A key is education Devin talks about redistributing wealth as leveling the playing field. I dont agree I believe a level playing field is achieved when everyone recieves a world class education. Devin and I disagree on the theory of government. I belive that people should help one another out of generoristy. Chruch's used to do this before governmet got involved and created a bueracracy that is unmanagable. Money can be saved by reducing government and we should give more attention to churches and non-profits who should be there to help those that need it.
Also if your theory that things do not get more expensive due to min. wage increases why not increase them to $20 dollars per hour? What would happen to economy? Well companies would shut down, pass the cost increases to THEIR customers (me and you) etc. It would mean that the net increase would be less and more people unemployed on welfare.
So THATS the problem I have with min. wage... You create dependence by giving someone a raise that he has not earned. It decreases the likelyhood that they will go out and get more training because they get a raise anyway.
Absolutely outstanding
Hillary killed Vince Foster.
The Sudan/Saudi Arabia had Osama in prison ready to extradict to America but Bill Clinton refused to take him.
Al Gore claimed he invented the internet.
(Remeber this one?)Bush will restore honor and integrity to the White House.
This administration will hold itself accountable.
The Clinton administration trashed the White House before the Bush administration took over.
Bush will make health insurance affordable for low-income families.
No Child Left Behind will help children.
Tom DeLay is decent Christian businessman.
The Delay investigation is the result of a rabidly partisan prosecutor.
Nobody at the White House knows Jack Abramoff.
Democrats took money from Jack Abramoff too.
Anyone who thinks Dubai shouldn't control our ports is racist.
Dick Cheney is a sober shooter.
Joe Wilson admitted that Valerie Plame wasn't covert.
Valerie Plame is a traitor.
Joseph Wilson is a traitor.
Patrick Fitzgerald is going to indict Joe Wilson.
Scooter Libby has a faulty memory.
Gas prices are high because of liberal environmentalists.
Gas prices are high because of taxes.
Windfall taxes on high oil company profits is socialism.
No one could have anticipated the breech of the levies
It's surprising that Bush's poll numbers are so low since people like him so much.
To be honest I do not hold this opiion for all Republicans. Some of my best friends are GOPs. But I do believe there a great many Republicans who have spread a cancer through that Party that is deceptive, un-American, and completely self serving. I am sick and tired of hearing people say that the Democratic Party is no better than the Republican Party because it is just not true. I have made it my mission to expose this cancer, not that the neo-con miscreants haven't been doing a pretty good job of it themselves lately. It hasn't always been so, but in the last few decades, the Republican Party has become more and more self absorbed. Once they actually understood that there was another side to America and that cooperation with their brother Americans was in their best interest. But for the last few decades it has become our way or no way for the Republicans. And more recently it seems any means justifies their intended end, including an anything goes approach to elections, and a tell the people what they want to hear and then do what ever we want attitude.
It's time for this country to shed this yoke of darkness.
Then you have those like Ty Phoon who speak as those he sees both sides and that is high commendable, don't you think?
Here is the real story.
The 2nd of the 12th Cavalry was engaged in a combat operation at the time of this incident. Max Cleland was with the Battalion Forward Command Post in heavy combat involving the attack of the 1st Cavalry Division up the valley to relieve the Marines who were besieged and surrounded at the Khe Shan Firebase. The whole surrounding area was an active combat zone (some might call the entire country of Vietnam a combat zone). Max, the Battalion Signal Officer, was engaged in a combat mission I personally ordered to increase the effectiveness of communications between the battalion combat forward and rear support elements: e.g. Erect a radio relay antenna on a mountain top. By the way, at one point the battalion rear elements came under enemy artillery fire so everyone was in harms way.
As they were getting off the helicopter, Max saw the grenade on the ground and he instinctively went for it. Soldiers in combat don't leave grenades lying around on the ground. Later, in the hospital, he said he thought it was his own but I doubt the concept of "ownership" went through his mind in the split seconds involved in reaching for the grenade. Nearly two decades later another soldier came forward and admitted it was actually his grenade. Does ownership of the grenade really matter? It does not.
Maury Cralle'
Battalion Executive Officer
2d/12th Cavalry Battalion
1st Air Cavalry Division
During the assault on Khe Shan
SHE IS A LYING BITCH/ where are those who support the integrity of our military personel.
//Minimum wage is an entry level wage and anyone stupid or lazy enough to remain at that level of pay deserve what they get. // Another overstatement. There are easily-documented cases where employees have been kept at or near minimum. I personally worked with someone with over 7 years at the same company, yet she was earning only 40 cents above minimum. (granted, there had been mandated mimimium-wage increases; the company referred to them as "raises".)
//I belive that people should help one another out of generoristy. Chruch's used to do this before governmet got involved// Churches have a nasty habit of either helping only their members, requiring recipients to adhere to the Church's moral credo, or both. Plus, one can only help those whom one is aware need help. With today's mobile, distributed society, that becomes increasingly unlikely.
The point is, these are among the incessantly-reiterated RepubliCON talking points. The fact that they are repeated ad nauseam doesn't make them true. And, said talking points never seem to cite any source for what must otherwise be viewed as mere opinion. "It's not what 'everybody knows' that's the problem. It's what 'everybody knows' that ain't so!"
All I see is that a house (America) divided will not stand. bin Laden sees it too. Somehow, someway, we have got to come together and -- even if we must fight in-house -- we cannot allow the rest of the world to see that America does not stand as a united front, for they will pounce upon that weakness and destroy from within.
You feel me?
Not a fan of coulter nor am I of Bill Mauher, he thinks it is okay to call for the assasination of the vice president.
Can you honestly say that you cannot think of a single thing you think Mr. Bush has done that is wrong? If you were to know of something you considered a colossal blunder and were to point it out, would that mean you hate him, or that you regard that decision as flawed beyond redemption?
Lady: A tip of my hat to you. Yes. You're correct.
ModernDay: I agree with your comment about a world-class education. Ensuring that everyone who is qualified for it could go to college, and those who cannot or do not wish to were offered the chance to get a good solid education with real job skills attached would be the best investment this country ever made. What made this country great was a skilled and educated middle class. Something that is dying as we speak.
To whoever it was that said that Cleland was defeated by the voters: that's only partially true. He was actually defeated by a high priced lie campaign that smeared a decorated war hero's record and accomplishments, and the people of his state were stupid enough to believe that if it is on TV it has to be true, so maybe in the end they have what they deserve.
Alan Greenspan is a staunch Republican. Extremely conservative. In today's NYTimes he vented his frustrations about Bush and Cheney as well as Republicans in Congress saying they put politics ahead of Republican goals like fiscal discipline and lower government spending. It's an excellent article on A17 by Edmund Andrews. Worth reading.
As I read these comment's I thought about how we have so many arguments , so many "sides", so many reason's, so many bad guy's, so much wrong I wonder what it will all come to at election time. I have noticed, that even the new candidates, with all their fresh ideas, they still talk about the same old rhetoric , and the same old issues. And as they talk to us, it is as tho we are uniformed about so many things, like we have never heard of some of their stands, like we are all hearing them for the first time. It makes me sad to know that we are NOT listened to. That we are not respected at all. Stop and think about it, Where is the RESPECT for the American People anymore? We are valuable until the elections are over? What does this say about almost everyone? There must be a change somewhere before the elections. How can we claim to have the greatest country in the world, and call someone naive for believing in our systems? Is it" Scottie we have a REAL BAD PROBLEM" time now? We are slipping into the same pattern. And why do people who basically want the same things argue with each other, (1) It is a TOTAL control issue, or (2) NO ONE IS LISTENING> The biggest problem for those of us who care so deeply, is how to make the uniterested take all of these arguments seriously. There are so many people out there that are giving up, and those who have not are living comfortable, so why bother? It is a fix anyway. This is the thoughts of many. It concerns me that with all of the talk, I wonder what is our goal in doing this? To bring someone to our point of view? To win and argument. Or will all of this talk just lead to more talk? That is what our government does now, and all of the problems just get worse, I have seen what unity can do, and I know you have also, Wouldn't it be nice in 2007,since it is not 1800's anymore, if we could figure out how to bring ourselves back to the Good Ole Day's, and you pick when they were, and get something done here at home, It is hell out here for so many and the amount of people in trouble just grows and grows, and the amount of people who help is near 0, or they lie, We have to stop the MADNESS, Get our STUFF together and Recover from our own disillusionment. (I hope I spelled that correctly, I am in a hurry. There were so many personal slams, the issues got lost, even on this page, and a good argument is ok some of the time, but we are in trouble. Imagine what it is like out on our streets, if the conversations are so heated, and I am sure that they are, and each of us has the right to that, but we also need to respect ourselves enough in spite of the political crap, and push that out the door and get down to thinking about solving the issues, at least discuss them. I want you to know how much I respect those I have read tonite for being intelligent and so sharing. I have learned a lot. I hope you all take blood pressure meds and are ok in the morning, Good Nite Irene! Ellen B P.S. And about the street's I was out there for our "Tribute to Troops / 9/11 Freedom Walk", and as horrifying as it is , there is some Apathy for our Troops, the people BELIEVE that our government is providing them with all they need, even after the Katrina disaster here at home. How is that for caring and wanting to be involved nowadays??
This is another Republican truth that is an out and out lie. Maher merely said if Cheney was dead, a lot of American boys would still be alive, which if you ask me is undeniably true, and is NOT a call for Cheney's assassination.
But ... I am sorry to say that I have to fully agree with Devin's side of this 'debate' ... I have been on Gather about a year now and that is when I got serious about discussing these issues.
Prior to that, way back when, I was just pissed off and very depressed about the way politics has been running this country, I sought some way to make a difference, I saw a real need for more truth by all, for people to quit lying and playing their 'games' of deception to get votes so they can line their own pockets ... just think of what must be going on in those offices based upon the amount of money that is spent to keep someone in, or put another into office ... it sure is a bunch, and that means that those offices are sure important to someone ... gee, could it be big business, corporate America, even multinational corporations (which all the really big ones now are, if not almost completely owned by foreign interests) ... ?
We have a culture where one side sees itself as the protector of the 'system', lionish and hawkish, manly to a fault (detests gays and any sign that they see as a weakness, such as compassion for the downtrodden) ... they believe in absolutes in rights and wrongs, you are either for them or against them, no middle road indecisive 'fence sitting' NOT allowed, grey area are for idiots to them. There is their good and then, the bad of the 'other', cut and dried !
Because of the dualistic concepts inbred into them about battling and warring against evil, they see much (even great) 'righteousness' in their philosophy, the evil must be converted OR destroyed. Can we not see that line of thinking in their words here on Gather and elsewhere ? They call it 'debate', but will not accept anything but their own view which is most often the handed down 'talking points' from some esteemed 'leader' type (most likely a right wing talk radio personality or FOX pundit) ... as has been said many times, there is excessive spinning, distortions and outright bald faced lies, all presented as the gospel truth ... sadly they tell themselves it is honest ... how delusional can you get.
Then there are any that are at all to the left side of them, a very large group of people, even some that think 'almost' like they do ... but all are looked at as the evil enemy, just a bunch of loony lefties that they believe to be below contemptible, the cause and reason for all of the world's problems ... so they think and claim.
What they do not at all realize, is that the entire system is set up this way so that we the people will contend with each other and never look (hopefully) up towards our controllers, the really big money few, that hide in shadows and buy politicians, that have NO real party allegiance or even national allegiance, just pragmatism that insures continuation of power and control ... we the people are just consumers, voters, and in effect, slaves to them. But they offer us entertainment to keep us content, and we mostly fall for it.
I will say that the left is the 'softer' side in that they are the more compassionate, the broader minded and, believe it or not, more independent free thinkers. They have a live and let live attitude and are not anywhere near as hateful as the right. Their perceived faults, called out by the right, is that they disagree with the right and are defensive towards the offensive right. Of course the right that knows only offense sees that as offensive to them and then piles on more of their own offensiveness ... ad infinitum ... like begets like !
So yes, we need to come together ... but FIRST we have to decide just where we are, where we stand and why, we have to really recognise what is going on here before anyone can change towards the better SYNERGY that is to come when we cooperate instead of compete towards winner take all and to hell with the losers ...
I have written a book on all of that ... the right may not like what I say, but it is what they really need to know ... and also much of the left also needs to understand. I have a very unique concept that would really solve all of our problems if people could just come to understand and believe in the simplicity of it ... it is a Spiritual message and it really condenses down to the Golden Rule ... which is the way our universe really was set up to operate.
In case anyone is interested, there are free downloads available at www.spiritcalls.us , I am very sincere about all of this, I really do care about all of the people of this world, not only my own ...
Peace, j.
Coulter called for the assasination of Bill Clinton, Ted Nugent threatened Hillary and Obama. "Suck my machine gun"?
The 9/11 widows just want attention, could care less for their lost ones?
But someone calls a General Betray Us, and it sparks a civil war.
His stance on the border for one makes my head want to explode.
Looks like it already did.
You say both parties are the same and then state that it was both that brought non-issues like abortion and gay marriage. The Democrats aren't the ones who drag this stuff out, i9t's the Republicans. Thanks for making my point.