Last Friday I posted an article that linked up a picture of a receding baboon and a slug to a copy of the first page of the most discussed article list. The articles were all either games or literal pleas for points. My point was that you have to look very carefully to discover new people who have something interesting to say.
Over the weekend I received a Gathermail from a relatively new member who asked if there weren't a place for the single minded pursuit of points and writing on the site. It made me think about it for the first time in months. Being a frog "of little brain"* I had to think about it for a while. Smoke issued from my ears and tear ducts and I got a bad headache. Less discomforting was my conclusion: I'm ambivalent.
I've devoted my life to the pursuit of cognitive dissonance. I don't mind having contradictory opinions bouncing around in the extensive empty space inside my head. When I was a kid my father criticised me for having too much of an ability to see both sides of a question.
The question that caused the headache and particulate emission was "How does point whoring hurt me?" I've always tended toward the opinion that the shameless pursuit of points by others cheapened my Gather experience. The problem has its roots in Gather's Madonna-like ability to redefine itself. Originally a writers' site, Gather changed to a social network in order to attract more members. As a result people who liked chat soon outnumbered the people who were interested in writing. The writing group felt that Gather had betrayed them.
One consequence of soliciting a wider group of members is that people discovered ways to manipulate the point system. Soon games ranging in difficulty from "Name a Word that Starts with a Letter of the Latin Alphabet" to "Girls' Names that Begin with 'S'" sprung up in large numbers. Chat threads like the well known "Good Morning, Gather" attracted amazingly large numbers of comments. The worst aspect of the shameless pursuit of points (technical term "point whoring") is plagiarism. People cut and pasted articles lifted from other web sites and represented them as their own work. Some people copied and pasted the work of other Gather members and posted it as their own. The most egregious example is probably the T. S. Eliot incident. A member posted a very slightly modified version of a T. S. Eliot poem as his own. He eventually took it down but before deleting it he defended it vigorously as his own original work. A third aspect of the single minded pursuit of points is the difficulty of finding something to read. If someone wants to find new people with interesting things to say there's a cloud of games and chat that obscures the other content.
The best argument for the social network model is that the majority of people on Gather are here for just that. They enjoy chat, exchanging family snapshots, and quasi-games. As long as there's no plagiarism involved, what's the harm?
That's the cause of my ambivalence. I understand why the writer group feels betrayed. Gather subjected them to an invaision of what H. L. Mencken called the "booboisie." The social network group resents the writer group because the writer group criticizes them for doing what they expected to do when they got here.
I've glossed over the Gather War Atrocities. People have done malicious and hurtful things to other members. Flag abuse has been rampant. Some members have participated in conspiracies against other members. I think the GWA are a consequence of any conflict involving enough people.
In a perfect world there would be compromise. Even if it were in the form of the line across the back seat of the car that separates siblings it might be enough. I doubt that's going to happen. The situation on Gather is like the Balkans. This conflict has been going on for hundreds of Gather years and people pursue it through force of habit.
I don't have an answer to the conflict. I think it was a mistake by Gather management to change directions. I'm sure Gather management thinks the change was a good idea. It increased revenue. I think we're stuck with the conflict as long as we all belong to Gather. I wish there were a place where both factions could meet and work things out. The only places I can think of are the Big Rock Candy Mountain or Cockaigne.
* A. A. Milne, "Winnie the Pooh"


Comments: 48
I'm too new and only know it as the point ho place, and the place where I say over and over again to you all "READ MY BOOKS".
ha ha
Here's my take. I never felt 'betrayed' by gather's change in direction. I long ago lost any hope I migh thave had that corporations would act any way other than in the interest of the bottom line, so I had abyssmally low expectations to begin with.
My question has always been, does point whoring affect my experience? As long as I stay away from those idiots, it doesn't affect me in that way. But does it slow down the servers? I don't think so.
On the other hand I do think it might help keep gather alive for those of us of more refined sensibility to use. (And for me, too.)
Recently someone posted a note from gather about how points are divided, though, and that has me wondering. The points are apparently a pie that varies in size depending on ad revenue, so more people getting points, lowers the number of points awarded for each point-worthy endeavor. So my next question is, does all the point whoring action increase or decrease the size of the pie relative to the number of pieces being cut?
I don't know.
I do know that I like points as an adjunct to any other pleasure I take from gather. I got a book at Borders today for free because of a gather awarded gift card.
So I'm not so much ambivalent as lacking enough information.
I've thought about the game and article sections too. I think the problem would be getting people to submit them to the right section. Even so it may be worth a try.
Good job, my little grasshopper... um, I mean froggy. The only bad thing I can see about the "whores" is that they are basically taking all the advertising income. I can't compete with someone who posts a game that gets 400 comments. At my rate, it'll be next spring before I get my edger, but that's cool. I can actually afford to get one without Gatherpoints.
Gather left one of my articles in limbo for twenty days or so, because I used "inappropriate tags". They shut down satire last week (but did reverse that, thank you MaryAnne). I think they could improve the utilization of their resources by removing accounts of people who consistently publish to inappropriate areas/groups.
I will even offer my services (but not on a volunteer basis as I offered before) to help with that project.
Not in one place, Joanne, but verses and pages at a time on many articles.
True confessions. My "smiley" came from a drive by to rate you a 10, but not having read your article and now I have. I've confessed, please don't hurt me! :=[
It's human nature, Nippy, everybody knows the rules but wants to see how far they can go, and greed gets involved too.
I love Peter's comment.
Being involved in marketing and sales for a good while I was shocked to hear the new rule being,
"anything goes as long as you don't get caught."
That did it for me.
You've written a good article that sums it up. I only hope that I do put all of my references there, when appropriate, and apply the quotes properly. I don't think I forget. Plagiarism is serious and should be punished, just as copyright infringement.
It's one thing I do check before I get my stuff, and if people aren't sure, there's alway the Library of Congress website that provides that information.
I'd have a lot more to say, but life is slamming me right now. You're not just a very nice man, as I've accused you of in the past, but you're a brilliant one, also.
I hope you manage to get un-slammed.
The same way it hurts all of us whose points are being drained from the coffers. As everyone knows, I was lured to this site with the promise of 'payment commensurate with quality'...I was further led to believe that the mysterious algorithm somehow factored in such nebulous constructs as originality, thoughtfulness, and merit. This is obviously a crock of crap. The result, and the answer to your question, is that the pointwhores are picking OUR pockets.
Sandy said it best, "They could have put the games and chats in an area apart from the rest of the site and given them no points. We'd see then how "stimulating and entertaining" people really find listing words that begin with the letter 's'."
You're right, it's a zero sum game. I work for a retail chain. I've had some interesting talks with the head of loss prevention about the lack of vision of some people who steal. He nailed people in stores for things like trying to game contests where the person who collects the largest number of customer names and addresses in a month wins a $50 gift certificate.
Admittedly there's no risk in point whoring but it's still amazing to me how much work people will put into getting $50 or $100 in a month. I'm not sure whether or not to believe the $1000 a month stories. It's almost as lucrative as stuffing envelopes at home. :) I could play music in the BART station before and after work and make more than I can on Gather.
Oops. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's all right elsewhere.
I work my ass off to provide "quality content" for Gather. Granted, I'm a paid Gather ho (please, hold your tomatoes until the end) but I still put a lot of time and effort into my work when I did it for free. It really sucks to see your hard work ignored while the site is flooded with point whoring crap.
You know what really burns my toast? Seeing people who openly admit to point whoring with pointless drivel so they can get on the cash system.
Exactly Joanne. Remember I got flagged for poking fun at those who begged, for "spam" no less.
In the interim, I also found I can throw in an article or two just for the fun of it. They might not get read by many people, but it's ok, too... by trying to write in English, I get to exercise and improve my use and understanding of my second language!
I find a lot of fun in leaving comments where I am inclined to leave my footprints. And I get points for them! However, accruing points is NOT my main goal on Gather. The points awarded for my "work" is an extra benefit I am just thankful to get. The friendships forged and the camaraderie is worth a lot more.
Having said that... I think I am gonna be able to get more books for the library if I keep rolling the points in... so, gimme points! :-)
Shake my hand and you're covered.
Speaking of BART, you do know some of those folks have been seen later in the day in three piece suits. I was just telling Kathleen about that in an email last night. lol
You're right, you could make more -- a lot more!
After several people said, "Thanks, but no thanks," for that very reason, I stopped inviting anyone to join Gather. I let the PTB know this, and explained that people coming in look at the highest read and rated articles to get a feel of the place. They don't seem to care.
On the other hand, some of the games are fun, too, and not all are that easy, even if they involve one word answers. Some take creativity and even some of the routine ones drift into areas you'd never expect, with people throwing in sentences about their day or links to other interesting articles. I tend to think any community changes and evolves and every community has a wide range of people, some wanting to find articles to make them think or find humor and others wanting to chat. I do think if Gather has a chat room (does it? where?) some of the chat threads would end up there. - or maybe not.
Thanks for commenting on my article asking what were people's favorite articles. I was able to get to your first link but Gather doesn't "recognize me" when I try to get to the one on Hijacking Threads. Rats!
There is no physical hurt, of course, but some damages.
The unseemly single-minded aggregation of points does introduce a weird dynamic of competition, self-promotion, and selfishness to the site.
I believe that point whores do undermine Gather.
The shared sense of listening and learning, and discovering things (which is what the "serious" Gatherers treasure and practice) is violated, disregarded, and actively opposed by the harlots.
Which is how I generally choose to navigate. I have less than 40 connections and a few pages of subscriptions (most of whom have left). The point is, a potential new visitor to the site (needed for Gather to suceed), who is lured by the idea of this as a writer's site or a place for intelligent discussion, has no way of finding those special connections and/or subscriptions on their own when the Recent Articles, Most Disgust, and Highest Rated lists are so full of sh*t. They are likely to come in, look around, be acosted by N*****s, K** and other connection whores, read their dreck and run.
Additionally, I like to scan the Recent Articles for new and interesting reading material and possible new members of interest. Every once in a while I do, but it's become a chore, moreso now than ever, because of all the stupid games and articles begging for points.
"Well, except you might not get as many points. But, then serious writers don't care about points, right?"
I'm not a serious writer (I'm not a writer at all) and I don't care about points. In over two years here, I've accumulated less than 7000 points, and 1000 of them were a gift. I'm here to read, and along the way I've met a bitchin' group of smart and fun people, some of them so brilliant I'd be willing to pay *them* for the pleasure of reading their stuff. I'd hate to see any more of them leave in disgust.
What I'd like to see is Gather take a stand on the more blatant point whoring. Hell, I think it would be cool if they removed points altogether for a while to separate the wheat from the chaff. But I doubt it's ever happen. They need warm bodies clicking through the place, whether they contribute anything of value or not.
Perhaps we're at a point that a unified protest could be made, a la the S-W fiasco, and they'd listen. I just don't know if I care enough anymore.
I only need 1,000 points to reach 3,000 points in a month. Please help me Gatherites. I'm behind on my electric bill, car payment, house payment and insurance. I can't even afford groceries. I need your help Gatherites! Please post at least ten comments each so that I can escape from this hell! LOL !!!
Oh, and my favorite- I cant afford formula for my baby, but I have a nice laptop and an internet connection, so give me points.
For the time I have been here, aside from a few who write great articles on political and news items, creating discussion and debate, I haven't found very many writers, other than those I've blocked from sending me private messages begging to be read and rated because they've entered a contest. I treat them like I treat Mormons trying to convert me. SLAM! Door closed.
I've noticed a lot of people who complain about others who "chat", but do the same on their own friends articles. I don't see much discussion on Gather, unless someone writes an article complaining about Gather. I don't see much debate, unless it's complaining about another member or Gather staff. Except in politics. What's boring about this is that it's almost always the same thing being said, by a number of different people about the same people. Well, fine. I think after two or three months of reading it, we all know what's bugging half of you. It's the droning noise being creating in my head that's driving me crazy. Words written.. all the same words, rearranged differently hoping someone pays more attention to one, more than the other.. drone...drone...drone...dot dot dot drone dot. I'm not accusing Nippy, or anyone. It is just my own observation and reaction to it.
Oh, and I like my run on sentences. I'm lazy that way.
Here's a solution. The only way I know for anyone to combat the "bad" articles is to out number them with "good" articles. There's no glory in giving up, throwing in the towel, disrupting the neighborhood with irritating droning. In the political world when we don't like something that has gone terribly wrong, we get off of our butts and get busy counter-acting it with better plans and solutions, rallying the people with encouragement and a goal to make it better (not worse). Get the job done. As with anything else, it's what you make it. Approacing a CEO with a bad attitude gets you ignored. You are letting the gamers win. They may have a place here and that's fine. It's up to you if they take over. I don't believe that when someone writes something worth reading they can't be found. The problem isn't so much that there are more of the games, point whores, or chatting articles. The problem is that there is a lack of the other (quality) to balance it. If you want quality writing, write it! Wasting time concentrating on what someone else is doing wrong isn't making anything right. How can someone claim they don't care about points all the while complaining about others grabbing all the points?
Don't hold it against others who don't share your interests. What is garbage to one man, is a treasure for another.