Why the Democrats will not disavow moveon.org

Or more likely because you loony toons are trying to put words in their mouth. Did you find the word traitor in that Move On ad yet, Putz?

Rudy was too busy getting rich capitalizing on his 911 fame to work for the Baker Commission. He should be criticized. He's constantly talking about his service to his country, well, they came a knockin', and no one was home, or hiding behind the curtain.

Listen Ron you It said General Be-trayus. That is bad and traitor is what they implied if you know anything about the military. I can not believe that you will not disavow this group yourself. They disparaged a good general who is highly decorated. It just shows nothing will stop you anti-american, anti-soldiers, american haters.

Ron Glad you got your moveon.org talking points. I am not a Rudy supporter but he can choose what he wants to do with his own time and that is much different from not knocking an organization that hates america

You seem to want always to speak for others, even though you are not very good at it. What makes you do that?

Sandy I Speak for myself an my views. I believe in supporting America and Americans. I will not betray my country like the far left.

The more over the top MoveOn is the better it helps Republicans. John Kerry lost votes in 2004 due to some of absolutely insane attack ads that moveon ran.

First of all, I know of no Move On spokesperson at this time that is in the military, so your insistence of the definition being a military one is just stupid, if Petraeus had said, it, you might be right, but he didn't, a civilian did, and in either case, you have not been set up as the blinking bunch of idiots that can define for others what their comments meant. You guys do that all the time, swiftboating everyone, but this time, I, for one am telling you to get bent, it's not your place to decide what was meant. You can ask Moveon for it's meaning, demand it even, but you have no right to declare to anyone what it meant to them when they put it up. Petraeus is hardly a hero, anyway, his record in Iraq has been of one that made things worse, not helped events. We covered that up there somewhere in the comments on my article last night, now didn't we?

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977116738

You only try to build him up because it suits your purpose to make Move on's declaration sound worse than it is. He's a putz and a screw up, and got the job because almost no one else could be trusted any longer to toe the Bush line.

So now Patraeus is not a hero because he does not agree with you. Why dont you just go rip of his bronze star and other decorations off his uniform. He actually was confirmed by both sides. There are praises coming from Republicans and Democrats. It is funny that you guys were fine with him unitl it did not suit you political opinions.

Okay Be-trayus is as bad as anything where are the apologies from all the yellow bellied democrats who like the protection and freedom but will bash generals so they can try to keep their cushy public offices

That rant made little sense Publius, slow down and get one thing out at a time. I never said at no point in time was Petraeus a hero, he certainly may have been, but by your own rules, it's what have you done lately, if you want respect, just to name a few of the national heros you folks have torn down, there's Max Cleland, your own John McCain, John Murtha, and finally, John Kerry that you have swiftboated, undeservedly twice, now. Yes, you have a lot of claim to umbrage from a military man slandered, don't you? What a hypocritical putz. Isuggest you go back and show some outrage for each of those events, before you lecture me on respect for military heros. Get a clue.

Don't be too assuming that Rudy will be the GOP nominee! Keep your eyes open, particularly when considering Romney's chances.

And we were just fine with Petraeus, even though he had screwed up big time with those national police, AKA militias, he seemed kind of a screw up, but someone had to take the job, and I don't think the White House was flooded with resumes, why would they be for that dog of a job? We were OK with him until he came back and lied his ass off for Bush, that's when we became not fine with him, Publius, and for damn good reason.

You dont know my history, Cleland was brought down for his own actions and voting not anything militarily. I like John McCain and respect him. Murtha was a hero but now he is corrupt and I respect what he did but he is stealing money from the government now. John Kerry lost an election people who served with him had questions about his claims. It did not affect my vote at all.

The general is still serving and has done nothing wrong except not give the report you wished that would serve your goal. I hardly fault the General for that.

Greg-

Romney still has a tough climb. But, whatch Thompson I think he will overtake Rudy before long. He keeps moving in that direction

"until he came back and lied his ass off for Bush, that's when we became not fine with him, Publius, and for damn good reason"

That is not true and you know it. He gave a military assesment that is true. If you want to attack someone attack the Ambassador who is responsible for the political.

Only one comment to an inane article like this.

Rudy used the MoveOn ad to attack Hillary last Thursday.
Move On has responded to that.

You clearly don't read the MoveOn site if you believe that they are fronting for a Hillary campaign.

The Democrats will not disavow this ad because it is much closer to what the nation believes than the Republican noise machine.

Petaeus' office has a continuous media propaganda arm that, guess what, is linked only to Foc Noise.

But, after the lying General (whose record of incredible pronouncements, dating back to 2004, rivals those of Chicken Hawk Cheney) and the AWOL in Chief have shot their wad -week-end reports show that the natioon is more pessimistic about the failure in Iraq.

Can't wait til '08.

Oh, and Greg can cling to his hopes for the great Romney flip-flopper. Romney has higher voter negatives than Hillary.

The more they know him, the more the voters distrust him.

Peter I did not say they were fronting. Just said they would defend democrats and so no one will say anything about their horrible actions and that is why they have hijacked the pary

MoveOn is like the old mafia bosses that would send their thugs out and shake down local business people for "Protection" money. You either paid up or you got your knee caps broken or worse. MoveOn is doing the same thing to democrats, they either follow the line or they will have their political knee caps broken.

Publius, this most certainly is true, and it takes very little perusal of the statistics to confirm it's true. Read the WAPO report about the fact that he doesn't even count deaths by car bomb, Publius. And then go back and see that when things got more secure in some areas, the insurgents went to car bombs, more and more, as their tool of choice. The rise in car bombs has been steady throughout the purge, and he doesn't even count deaths due to them? What planet are you, and they, on, where you just count the deaths you want to to make yourself look better, and your failed policy look like it's working, when it is failing miserably, and over double the civilians are dying compared to pre surge. The Iraqi's themselves have no problem telling anyone the surge has been a failure, and it's their country, isn't it. Wait, don't answer that, I'm not sure I could take your answer.

Polliwonk,
You are exaggerating to ridiculous effect. And even if you weren't, it's a grassroots organization that like any other grassroots organization, tries to persuade the political sphere to conform to it's wishes, that is what they all do, so you could accuse any grassroots movement of that behavior, although I, and most others wouldn't use the negative framing you are trying to use, here, to try to sway the opinion of others without using facts, just condemnation. Move on is doing exactly what any other grassroots organization does, promoting it's membership's political views. Because they called your two heroes bluffs, and put the truth to their lies, you just don't like them. That's OK, though, I doubt any member would care for you either. Keep on ranting, it's good that you get it out, before you go home and beat the dog or something.

I would like to know how Moveon called the Gen a traitor, when he hadnt even given his assessment yet. Why would the Gen. lie about the conditions in Iraq? If he were lying he would only make himself look bad, when the truth comes out. I cant see staking my reputation on appeasing Pres. Bush to further his agenda. I believe the Gen. spoke the truth and moveon.org is run by people who hate the President, and will sink to any level to smear Bush or anyone who doesnt agree with their way of thinking. Even Hillary thought that the Gen. was a good choice and even some Dems. who are not afraid of telling the truth, have spoken out against the far lefts radical thinking . Dont forget that the Gen. is well educated as well. I think he knows more about what is going on in Iraq Ron, that you. He has been there and done that. Not to mention alot of the military are backing what he has said. I wouldnt call them liars either. They are the ones fighting this war, not you Ron or me.
ModernDay good article, deserves a 10,

Ron I am glad you got your talking points a lot of what you just mentioned is just not true about the generals report. His report includes all the most important and most recent data. We can fight wars with statistics. But the fact is the general is not going to lie and ruin his reputation. It is much easier to make the General out to be the bad guy because the democrats can never allow good news to be had. That would just hurt them politically

I agree with Vicky, why did the NYTimes give them a 6figure discount?

Get informed go to
www.therealnews.com

Alain,

That is funny. Thats like going to fox for unbiased coverage.

You all can obfuscate all you want, but you tell me how not counting car bomb related deaths, considering that is almost entirely the tack that the insurgents went to during the surge is truthful reporting. How is taking a seasonal downturn in casualties, and claiming they are due to the surge not lying? Now add to that that the figures, compared month to month pre and surge, are almost double the casualties of presurge, yet casualties are down. Vickey, Publius, James, what totally inept teacher taught you idiots reasonable thinking. Take your Bush is god blinders off, and smell the coffee. You people are pathetic.

And Vickey, only idiots like you have called the General a traitor, the word is used NOWHERE in the Move on article. period!

Thanks Alain,
I'll check it out. If Publius thinks it's bad, it might actually be unbiased for a change.

Ron

The general did count them. I you heard the testimony and question those questions would have been answered for you. You are the one with the blinders on. you and moveon.org were attacking the general before he even delivered his report. The report that was leaked was not his and everyone bashed him. Ron why have you betrayed america.

Publius,

I could not begin, were I to be entirely wrong about this one issue, which I am not, begin to betray my country on near the scale that someone who voted twice for GW Bush has, just by casting their misguided little vote. Your assertions on the figures are wrong, they are, even now, being reported in error.

So why did you take offense when I said you betrayed America. Was that fair. No it was not. It should have never been used in the ad. It was wrong and should be called so. The data is that data. The military general on the field says their is progress. And you have admitted previously there has been progress in Anbar. What exactly is the deal.

Publius,
Because you are, I'm not. His lies did betray the trust that was put in him by the American People. That doesn't make him a traitor, in my eyes, or Move ons, but it doesn't make him a man to be respected, either. I think that's the truth of the matter. As for Anbar, the surge or Petreaus did not have anything to do with the Sunni's turning on Al Qaeda in Iraq, that was already decided, I can steer you to articles about that, long pre surge. The only thing Patreaus has done there, is once again traded temporary gain for a disastrous future, just as he did previously, arming the so called "National Police force" that is basically an arm of the militia now. Death squads in national police uniforms, etc. Those arms he supplied the Sunnis will be turned to effects we would rather not see them used for at a soon to be determined date, it's inevitable, and was a bonehead move on his part. The figures are cooked, obviously, Petraeus lies, pure and simple, and that is how he has betrayed us.

like i've said before, if it's not doom and gloom the left thinks its a lie. I think Moveon is politically blackmailing the democrat candidates. It's hard to believe NOT one disagreed with it. Makes me wonder if they'll stand up to anyone.

For craps sakes, the candidates aren't speaking out against Move On, because if you take the ridiculous right wing spin off the ad, what it says is true. They will stand up to someone, obviously, they are standing up to your pathetic attempts to blackmail them because in point of fact, it is you trying to put them on the spot to disavow Move On, when they were never aligned with the group. Move on has it's own agenda, a grassroots one that it's members share. They are only extreme left to you idiots because you are so far right. In any event, Move on speaks for itself, not the candidates, and not the democratic party as a whole, so your demands that the candidates disavow Move on, and their ad, is just the attempted blackmail that you accuse Move on dot org of, which is pretty funny when you consider it. You folks are comedic relief.

David

They wont say anything about moveon.org because it has hijacked the party. The democrats wont understand that no one will elect a far left cantidate until it is too late. Moveon wants to move the dems to the left and the electorate is not there. There is no way to play this war thing for another year as it is already cracking and in the end they will be left with egg of their face.

I rest my case.

I am in the middle there Ron. You just dont want to admit youve turned far left. This anti-america contingent is a far left fringe element that you have become a part of there Ron

I am more pro American than you are Publius, because you are not pro American, you are pro Neocon, pro Bush, and your objectives are harmful to our country, and that includes keeping us mired in Iraq. You are pro Corporation, not pro American. It's not the same thing.

I am pro-american which includes free markets which is better than socialist and defeatist. I am not a neocon, I am sorry to disappoint. I am just tired of the bush bashers that will blame the President for Everything. I believe there may be a hurricane out in the ocean. President Bush is to blame.

Well, like my bumper sticker says: " I'll stop blaming Bush when it quits being his fault" The hurricane, no, but the butchered relief job on Katrina, yes

Um, so all bush and no blame for Louisiana or NO officals?

Not that they didn't screw up, but it got beyond their abilities rather quickly, and from there on Brownie did a heck of a job, translated, almost nothing for days and days. I'm not a taxpayer of Louisiana, I'm a US taxpayer, and my beef, naturally is with Bush, and his horribly unqualified appointee.

I put a little ditty together, which I started a couple nights back, as a frustrated response to the MoveOn.org Petraeus ad in the New York Times. Founders Wes Boyd and Joan Blades are behind this message, and should be held accountable.

You may find it somewhat interesting, no matter which side of the MoveAble fence you're on:


Petraeus, Betray Us?

While Boyd and Blades play us
And attempt to sway us,

Portraying Petraeus
As a man who'd betray us;

Their fiddle they play us
Is a fake Amadeus,

Giving time to repay us
To the one who would slay us,
To the one who'd fillet us,
Who'd quarter and splay us;

To the Devil who lurks in the East Himalayas.

No, the ones who betray US -
Say "move on," yet delay us;
They blog and survey us,
undermine and dismay us.
But they err and misplay us,
With attempts to wordplay us;

See, in their goal to downplay us,
divide and decay us - in the end it's their words - their words - that betray us.

Why, isn't that treason?
Hmmm. What say us?

I know. Ask General Petraeus.

Ron then how is it Florida is able to handle it and LA is not. OH, I know because LA turned down FL officals who offered to help them plan, and then refused their help in the aftermath. The problem is the local and state officals blamed their incompetence on Fema and the President. You dont plan for federal response for three days. That is the planning method. They failed and passed the blame to the Feds and some people have bought it.

FEMA is supposed to be available for any and all emergencies. That what we taxpayers are paying for and I'd have to say getting very little in return for our money. The hurricane in LA was much worse than any hurricane that Florida has had in the past forty years. FEMA had a five day warning about the problem in LA. They should have been ready for it. That's why we pay taxes.

As to moveon.org. MoveOn is not a democratic organization. They have been critical of the Democratic Party and continue to advance the cause according to their membership. The Democrats have no responsibility here because they are not an arm of the party in any way.

Joe,

they were ready, but in all hurricane planning FEMA is not planned to be there until day three. Local and State Emergenct management is to provide evacuation and rescue and then FEMA comes in with food and ice along with temporary housing and the such. This was a massive failure of Local and state government. Actaully Joe Hurricane IVAN that hit florida in Pensacola was a much more powerful hurricane. The problems in New Orlenas stemmed from poor evacuation planning and poor emergency planning combined with flooding. Did you know that the command center for emergency management was at the lowest point below sea level. that is harldy good planning. If you really wanted to help people why did they turn away florida assistance on day 1.

MoveOn represents big money to their party. The Dems need that and they'll let MoveOn make all kinds of noise in the mean time. Like the Repubs with some of the religious types, the Dems have a larger (and one can argue more extreme to look at their sites) group of people that turn off many other voters.

The key for the Dems is to keep MoveOn/their money on line with them while not letting them get too close and scare away many of middle of the road voters. This ad did not help but Nov 08 is a long ways away...

Hurricane Ivan did not cause as much damage as Hurrican Katrina did because New Orleans is a larger city. Anyone with half a brain can understand that the entire city couldn't have been evacuated in time. Many people had to turn back and many people didn't have the means to evacuate. That point, MDP, is moot. What's important to understand is that our tax money goes to FEMA whether they produce or not. It is a wasted agency if it doesn't come through.

Okay let me ask this question why can Mimai provide for evacuation and saftey and not New Orleans?

When Andrew and all the other hurricanes have hit miami Fema does not get there immediatly. It is not there job. There job is providing the supplies needed to survive afterward which they have done.