I've really appreciate anyone's opinion here as I've very confused about what would be best at this point.
The Situation: Cholesterol is high 260s and my good cholesterol is not good enough.
The Medical Decision: A variety of drugs, from Crestor to Vytorin. Every blood test came back as showing "abnormal liver function" and I had aches, nothing severe, but my cholesterol dropped to below 200, well below.
Family history:
Mother: has always had cholesterol around 420 or more (yes, that is right!) and she is 94 and has never had any heart disease, as well as an excellent result on a catherization to test for any issues.
Father - was in high stress job, type A personality, high cholesterol and died of heart disease in his 80s. His sister, however, is in her 90s with no evidence of disease
My RECENT test results - Although I am waiting for blood test results, I had a heart test (x-ray, non invasive) which showed that I had essentially no hard plaque build-up. I wanted the newest test recommened by Dr. Oz which shows both hard and soft plaque but insurance would not pay and it would cost 4K! I was told that the lack of hard plaque was probably an indicator that I had very little soft plaque and that I had a 0 score, meaning I showed no signs of heart disease in the arteries.
Conclusion: Total confusion! What do I do? I hate statins, have lost 23 pounds in the last few months, exercise, eat right and am praying my blood tests show improvement. How important was that heart test? With those results, should I try to stay off statins?
I know many people who comment won't be doctors but I'd really like opinions, experiences, anyy feedback.
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 43
Glad to know that I don't have to worry myself just yet! I'm going back for follow-up testing!
So for your medications, I cannot help you out only share with you my husbands experience with it.
But Good Luck on this one.
If youre Doctor isn't in emergency mode, and you think he should be, get a second opinion. If you're comfortable with the test results and medication regimen as well as the results from the diet, exercise and meds... relax (stress isn't good for you)
Good luck!
For women, the test is not as reliable until after menopause or hysterectomy. Not sure why. So, depending on your age they might or might not be an option.
I'm assuming you're doing all the good dietary things like oat bran and taking Niacin. Talk to your doctor, but I take 1,000 Niacin a day.
Yes, I do. I also wanted to say that Benecol is a good product (comes in chewable soft candy shapes but limit your amount) and psyllium. Mostly, lowering my use of beef is a huge help and oatmeal also helps.
Thanks. Every time I turn on the tv, they keep talking about women and heart disease. It kind of freaks me out.
I have made MAJOR changes in my life, lost 23 pounds recently (but slowly, the way they suggest, as quick weight loss can lead to gallbladder attacks), don't eat beef, focus on organic and fresh fruits and veggies, plenty of fiber, COQ10 and even such simple steps as adding cinnamon and fresh shaved ginger to some foods. Both are shown to help blood sugar, reduce cravings and increase metabolism.
I am a STRONG believer in attitude so I really don't watch much tv and DO spend time reading and reviewing books. Books are relaxing to me. I also walk and meditate as I do, just let the day sift through me. My stress level is higher than I'd like, due to caring for a dying parent, but I try to set limits and we have backup support so I can get some relief. Still, that is the most unpredictable part of my life. My weight need to go down more.
As far as toxins and pollution, we really watch that. We live in the country, use mostly organic products and I am constantly reading about the newest alternative treatments. I prefer noninvasive options.
Seriously, the TV exists to instill fear and motivate people to buy into the system and its reality. This even worked for a long time, but now I think it is way overboard. There is no reality or regulation and my experiences with the health care system say they are fine with doing tests forever. The more test you have and the more you use your insurance, and the older you get make it very problematic if you ever have to buy your own health care outside of work at so-called market rates.
You did not mention your weight and height, or how you generally feel physically, or if you have any other real problems, or what your life is like, aside from some exercise and weightloss which is usually very good. What about your stress level, exposure to toxins pollution, etc? And sleep, don't forget sleep, do you get enough?
I know about that ... it is one of the worst things that can happen in terms of stress, it can turn your whole world view around and smack you in the face too.
The other thing I was going to mention is sleep, do you sleep well and get enough sleep?
What made you think you have a problem, you sound pretty good to me. Do you weight significantly more than your parents? You don't have to answer that of course.
When I had all my stress, it was for about 5 years, 3 really intense. I thought I was having heart problems but apparently not, it was just bad diet, little exercise and feeling like crap from lack of sleep and stress. I had to realize my number 1 job now is to undo all that, and everything else has to take a back seat.
Ergo, when my sweet doctor said, "you are genetically predisposed to heart disease and while your cholesterol and blood pressure are marginal there is a greater possibility of controlling them both if we start now." Then she told me that she had been on Lipitor herself for 15 years. It has been two years and I do feel much better than I did. I am not cranky (like I was getting) and I feel pretty relaxed most of the time unless there is a reason to be otherwise.
I had one friend who had a stroke five days after he decided he didn't 'feel like taking his blood pressure meds anymore'. His wife was essentially bankrupted with his medical bills three years later when he finally died, as he was paralyzed on both sides and unable to speak for the entire time. You can imagine how much she now hates his guts. It is sad, but she's old, frail, sick and has to work as she has nothing but a piddly amount in social security as they were self-employed and low income earners.
I want to remain independent as long as I can, so I am going to sign off and go for a six mile hike with my friend. (Don't worry, it's mostly flat.)
I believe that many of us are much too stressed out, have too much financial pressure, no security either politically or via our employers, and this is contributing to many of the health issues our parents didn't have. After all, they weren't paying $1000 health insurance premiums every month or $600 a month car payments and somebody was staying home making healthy food for everybody.
Unfortunately, in our society, it is a risk to be overweight but 60+ percent of us are, so the risks are very different.
Take the fish oil, exercise a few minutes every day and don't eat the transfats, and take your new meds. If you get your weight down and your fitness up, perhaps you will be able to go off them at some future time.
Good luck in the meantime.
My bad cholesterol was very high 200's and HDL about 30 before starting meds. I had to stop the Lipitor due to leg cramps, possibly the muscle myopathy related to statins. My major concern has been Triglycerides, sometimes too high to measure by the lab (greater than 450). My liver functions have remained normal. I just completed a 2 year research with Crestor and fibrates and had pretty good numbers. I haven't had lab recently as low on money and had no insurance. My mother's family probably all had high cholesterol and most passed due to heart attack or stroke. They didn't test for cholesterol back then. Diabetes complicates the situation and I was diagnosed about 3 months ago. My mother had diabetes and died at age 68 from a probable stroke.
Now your situation...your liver studies are a concern and I assume that there are no other reasons for the elevations. (you know what they are). My experience with Crestor has been good. If you add Omega 3, niacin and twice daily fiber supplement, that should help your numbers some without liver compromise. I will probably experience wrath from dieticians but the latest I read stated that a good diet would only lower numbers about 10%, the major factor is genes. That hardly seems worth being miserable, I tend to be erratic with my diet, junk to starvation. The exercise is a great practice and helps in several areas. It sounds like your tests in general are pretty good. My advice is to do what you can. But most important, enjoy your life to the fullest. Low stress and happiness will probably have more benefit than any medications you take.
marty
Cholesterol is only one measurement. Heart attacks can be the result of a virus or an electrical problem. One of the 'things' about low cholesterol being a 'good' if not 'great' thing stemmed from the famous Framingham, MA heart study that was begun decades ago.
In 1979, when I first came to Boston with a young doctor, he had the fortune of listening to the former director of the Framingham heart study, Dr. William Castelli. I had a transcript of the Castelli talk.
Keep in mind this was a while back. This was the result of the Framingham study:
1. Vegetarians lived longer than meat eaters; therefore, eating more veggies and less meat and less animal protein is a good thing.
2. People in the CCU often had a cholesterol reading that was considered normal for that era; that 'normal' was about 240. They realized their definition of normal might be off if people were dying of heart attacks.
3. Populatios such as the Finnish and the Japanese that had very low total cholesterol levels such as 150 or 180 lived a lot longer than Americans. Therefore, we should get everybody's cholesterol to below 240 and probably lower than 200.
So, that is the origin of the current thinking about the numbers game.
It does not work for everybody and does not take into account the many other factors that may contribute to a heart attack or to a long life.
We are eating less red and other meats and more veggies and fruits than 40 years ago. We drink less alcohol and smoke less.
In 1967, the first year the statistics were collected, about 1 million people died of a heart attack.
It was not until nearly 20 years after that, that the number dropped significantly.
However, many people are too fat and eating too much fast food with little or no exercise.
If your liver function is abnormal, that is not a good thing and I don't think you want to stay on statins. They can cause a degradation of liver function - because that is how they break up the cholesterol in the liver; they tax the liver.
You have longevity on your side.
My FIL is 86 and eats eggs frequently. He walks a lot. His cholesterol has been consistently about 150.
My husband's family has genes on his side.
The thing about HDLs is that exercise can change them a LOT or lack of exercise can keep them low, not a good thing.
My mother had 400 and was finally able to reduce her LDL with a lot of Simvastatin. But she died of a heart attack, anyway.
My father had bad luck plus some alcohol and cigarettes to contribute to death at 44.
When I exercised a lot, my LDL remained too high but my HDLs were incredibly good.
I was able to get my total LDL down to 160 once, but I am not certain if that would be the case now.
I am not worrrying about it. I think the important thing is to keep the heart healthy with proper diet, sleep, good health and exercise.
I had a relative pass not too long ago - she had had high blood pressure that had been treated all her life. She did not have her cholesterold checked until about 10 years ago and it was not treated until then. She was 86.
Too much of medicine focuses on a few small factors and misses the forest for the trees.
Stay healthy. That is all you can do. At some point, I will resume Statins, but it is not someting I am worried about right now, despite probably 300 total LDLs.
Anyway, my mother hates meds and even though the doctor has been trying to get her to take cholesterol meds for years, she is over 90 and hasn't ever taken any. Her cholesterol is ALWAYS over 400 and she eats what she wants. ALso, years ago, she was a heavy smoker. And yet when they did a angiogram on her, they were amazed by how healthy her heart looked. Some people are just lucky.
She has never had chest pains or a heart attack. Her EKGs are always normal and she always passed those stress tests. They don't give them to her anymore because of her age.
Her diet? Not great. She had 8 brothers and sisters and none of them died of heart disease. Go figure.
My Dad is another story but his sister is still alive and in her 90s. Those meds make me feel so lousy that I really don't want to take them. Plus, if I do I don't think I could EVER have a glass of wine again, which would be weird. I never had a drink while on the meds. I was too scared.
If my liver function tests come out abnormal on the meds, I'm not risking more by drinking, even socially. I could live with that but it sure makes me feel out of it at parties, when everyone else is enjoying wines that compliment the meal.
Something to ask your dr about is IMT==intimal-media thickness of the carotid artery. This is THOUGHT to be an indicator of whole body, and especially heart artery health.
I had a 10 years hiatus in my job as an abdominal sonographer, and when I started scanning livers again, I was surprized how many young (40's) patients were coming in with elevated liver functions, and how their livers had fatty infiltration seen on the ultrasound. The patients blame the cholesterol meds, and I am leaning toward agreeing with them.
Personally, my doc prescribed a small dose of statins for me, for heart proection. My chol tends to hover right around 200. I am totally noncompliantregarding taking the meds. I take one maybe one day of four, because I just can't decide what I think is right. Just as you, Jane. Such a complicated and scarey subject.
PS==I'd rather DRINK the occasional wine, and hope for its heart benefits, as well as all its social and happiness inducing benefits, than do without, worriyng about a possible liver damage. Pro wine, anti statin!!
My cholesterol was normal and in the low range when I had my heart attack at the age of 39.
Expanded tests not only provide a direct measurement of LDL, but they also look at the size, type and sometimes number of LDL and HDL particles. A person with a low LDL score could actually have a lot of small LDL particles, putting him or her at higher risk for heart disease. And a person with very high HDL, thought to offer dramatic protection against heart disease, might not be getting as much protection as he thinks, because he can have too much of the wrong kind of HDL.
Insurance plans often will pay for the test if a person has known heart problems or other risk factors such as diabetes. But they usually won't pay for the tests in healthy people -- even though it is estimated that 40 million otherwise healthy people have hidden heart disease. Studies show the expanded tests could have detected 95% of heart-attack patients early.
The best-known expanded test is from Berkeley HeartLab, the Burlingame, Calif., firm that licensed the test from University of California at Berkeley, where it was developed. Another test made by Atherotech of Birmingham, Ala., is known as the VAP test (for vertical auto profile), and uses a high-speed centrifuge process to study particle size. A third test, known as the NMR Lipoprofile (for nuclear magnetic resonance), uses soundwaves to measure the number of particles. It is made by LipoScience of Raleigh, N.C.
We have had incredible results with the same initial presentation as described above. There is a way out from the quagmire of medications.
My mother was on 14 daily meds. She was feeling awful and her cancer doctor volunteered to be her only doctor after he went on vacation and they treated one of the symptoms of her cancer entirely wrong. We brought in a paper bag full of her Rx bottles. He got her down to 7 meds, including her chemotherapy. She began to feel better--even with Cancer. Doctors had been adding meds but never took away anything else she was using. Typical US medical procedures. She lived in more comfort the last 4 years of her life and died at 87. She had a terrible heart condition for almost 18 years, but it was not her heart in the end.
As for stress, research EFT. It's so simple that it seems strange and like it couldn't work, but believe me, I've changed my life with it and my bipolar granddaughter calms right down if I do it over the phone with her. Suspend your disbelief and try it, it can't hurt... but it will help. www.emofree.com Free manual available there.
The medical profession lowered the "borderline" numbers for our vital statistics a few years back. So, the soundness of a good diet and moderate exercise and giving up junk food has to be our response.
I just got my yearly labs back and I'm still in good standing. But it is not without effort. I looked at three components of health--diet, exercise and stress reduction through yoga and learning how to correctly breath.
Of course, I live a spirit-filled life as well.
I don't want to deal with the statins, so I choose the above as my solution to not having to struggle with the negative effects you mentioned.
Take care, Jane.
Pat
also play a part in your reading. my doctor send my results to me every month. It show's where the reading range should be than where I am at. I am on med's for it as well for other things like Dibetic-child-hood RA, Fibermoalgy, Blood desease from RA med's.. so on 7 so forth. you should get your results than make a time line. I get tested once a month due to all my other health problems. Than I also track what I have eaten that month as well. The more you stay informed & the more you can relate to your doctor & give him all the info. The bester they are in controling it plus using the right med's for you. I hope this helped. God Blesssings always dee-dee
10*
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977113236
I have had 6 stents in the last 4 years. Two in 03, two in Nov '06, 1 in Feb 07 and another in May 07. I had my first heart attack and angio plasti in '85 at age 47. So the situation hasn't improved that much and I've been on meds for the last few years. Have finally lowered my cholesterol. I think the most important factor for those of us who have heart problems is diet and exercise. Unfortunately, those of us who have clogged heart arteries usually have leg and other arteries clogged which makes exercise not easy. I also have arthritis--family genetics and poor life style contribute to all this but I'm not giving up. At age 70 I stay as active as I can, am in a cardio rehab program and am focused on increasing my exercise.
I'm glad you are keeping track of your health situation and hope all this wonderful advice will get you to your healthy place in life. Don't give up and keep on keeping on.
Mary Mc
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977122838
In it, I mention the Reynolds Risk Score. You might want to look at that site:
http://www.reynoldsriskscore.org
I was really relieved when I plugged in my numbers at this site.
I spent an entire week researching high cholesterol after the last time the doc tried to put me on statins. She though it was worth the risk to my liver. I totally disagreed. What I discovered was that the pharmaceuticals supposedly decided shortly after putting them on the market that their goal was for 90% of all Americans to be on them eventually. They're getting there...
Consider this. Back when there were farms everywhere, the farmers ate 6 eggs and lots of butter on their toast every day. But they were not usually over weight and they exercised and they got plenty of sleep. They had stress, surely, but not the same kinds of weird stress we have today.
And consider... Our bodies make both the good and bad cholesterol. They have purposes. I saw a simple explanation somewhere. One - I think the bad one - is used to patch weak places in the blood vessels. Once they (blood vessels) start to heal themselves after being patched, the other cholesterol's (I think, the good one) job is to flush the other away. Some studies show that we should not be trying to reduce them at all. But those studies are the ones NOT being done by the drug companies.
Another study I read said that when they studied thousands of people who had died of heart problems, some had high cholesterol, some did not. Some had bad diets, some good. Some were over weight, some under weight. The only factor they could find in each one was that they all had high levels of stress.