I am sitting here watching the O'Reilly Factor. Bill is discussing the recent murders and attempted murder of the college students in New Jersey. 2 of the alleged attackers were illegal aliens. One of the alleged attackers had a violent criminal history, he had been convicted of child molestation, yet the judge still saw fit to reduce this criminals bail.
This illegal criminals was able to post his bond allowing him to further attack and murder more US citizens.
The fact that he was an illegal alien was known to the judge but the judge didn't feel it was appropriate to consider that fact when setting and later reducing his bond.
What do you think?
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Comments: 49
Ron and Ann what is happening is this...at least the way I understand it...the judge refused to look at this criminals illegal status because he wasnt being charged with being an illegal. Does the way I put that make sense.
I think if you commit a crime in another country, you have to consider yourself subject to the laws of the land. Now, most countries give people a little latitude on the basis of ignorance. But its one thing not to wear your head scarf in Afghanistan versus being involved in a homicide. Isn't murder a capital crime everywhere?
As to the case in question, I don't know the details; it sounds very serious. Let me be clear that I'm neither saying yes or no.
Like the US, Japan nowadays is viewed by many third-worlders as a place where you can go to make money for sending back home. The government has been making a lot of noise these days about the "rising crime rate among foreign residents" and how the foreign element should be curtailed, controlled, eliminated, whatever. But the human rights people (check out www.debito.org) make the point that much of the crime rise among foreigners is actually in categories which are by definition only capable of being committed by foreigners, such as visa violations and that, in other categories where meanigful comparisons can be made, it is mainly among the Japanese themselves that crime rates are rising. The protesters' position is that foreigners are being scapegoated by demogogues (notably the governor of Tokyo, but others too) for political purposes, to distract the people away from their own policy failures.
So when you ask whether the accused residence status should affect our judgement of his other crimes, I have to pause quite a long time before answering. He or she has come to earn some money, and has a traffic accident. Hmmm. He or she has come to earn some money and gets into a bar fight. Hmmm. He or she has come to earn some money and robs a homeowner. Hmmm. Three different kinds of cases, I think.
You are right this could be a double edged sword....if you are charged with a crime should your past be able to come back to haunt you or should this only apply to illegals.
I don't really see where immigration status has anything to do with it.
Do you realize that if you deport him now he won't serve time for the murder he commited? Has the fact that this person was an illegal immigrant become more of a crime than the murder or the previous child rape charge (from what I've read it was 1 of the 6 killers who was an illegal immigrant)?
In retrospect it seems clear that the judge shouldn't have reduced his bail from $300,000 to $150,000, but it also doesn't seem clear that the judge new about his immigration status (certainly the city is saying they didn't) nor does it seem that relevant. If you want to be outraged that bail is being lowered for someone charged with 30-some counts of sexual assault on a 5 year old then I'm outraged along with you, but that would be true whether he was an illegal immigrant or a US citizen.
So many Americans have their heads up their asses they don't care what happened to 3,000 people in NY, or in the pentagon, or the PA fields or to our kids in NJ, Va, Ca and EVERY other state. They don't care that China has compromised our dog food, cat food, toothpaste, toddlers toys, security at the pentagon as long as when they go shopping, they get a good sale.
They spend more time going through sales flyers than calling and writing their congressmen and senators on the tractor trailers that are coming into this country from mexico UNCHECKED. Just how much chemicals would it take to wipe out your town or city or state? How many terrorists can fit in one of those trailers?
After all what else really matters but a sale a at K Mart?
Exactly. When making decisions about bail, the presumption of innocence has to be weighed against, among other things, the potential risk to the public. Even after being arrested for the murders, the judge still gave him the option of getting out on bail. That's the thing that concerns me, not his immigration or citizenship status.
As far as the immigration thing goes, I read an interview with an assistant DA who said he was tired of wasting his time preparing for cases only to find out that ICE had deported the defendant before the trail date. I can understand why he wouldn't be happy.
Wil good point.
Dawn I think you are right to a point. I think for the most part the powers that be know pretty much who is illegal and who isnt....I can guess that one too....I doubt whether the USA will ever be overthrown by the illegals.
I very much doubt it, too.
But I guess it sounds good if you're trying to get people fired up about illegal immigration. So does focusing on crimes committed by illegal immigrants. Some white supremacist groups do the same thing by focusing on crimes committed by blacks.
Another technique is to try to equate speaking Spanish with being an illegal immigrant. I guess they're hoping people will start thinking along the lines of Spanish-speaking = illegal immigrant = dangerous criminal. Unfortunately, some people seem to be falling for it. :(
Fair enough. White supremacist groups think we should be fired up about blacks and anybody else who isn't white. "English Only" groups think we should be fired up about the increasing numbers of people who speak Spanish, whether they're legal or not. Some people think we should be fired up about the destruction of the environment. Others think we should get fired up about human rights. Education. Taxes. The obesity epidemic. Political corruption. Child abuse. Foreign policy. Pornography. Religion. Globalization. Health care. One thing's for sure, there's no shortage of things people can choose to get fired up about.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think we'd need to burn the Constitution first, so we wouldn't have to worry about "equal protection" as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.
Then if they are found to be not guilty by a jury..they should go before a U.S. Immigration court so their fate can be determined. If they are in our country illegally...it won't take very much evidence to prove that. So if they are found guilty of being in our country illegally, then yes they should be deported.
Dawn, I think your complaint is miss directed. Illegal immigrants are not pushing our governement around. Our government is not doing the job by law it should be. That is the real problem we are faced with. Lets raise hell about that issue.
How about we call all the drug dealers unlicensed pharmacists also?
and our laws, would warrant a denial of bail, totally.
Subsequent events rather confirm this view, no ?
My point was that his rap sheet indicated that he should have been denied bail, even if he was a citizen.
Yes, I knew that. I was just agreeing with you, not doubting you.
I do have a major disagreement with you about your statement (in some other thread)
you said : "Acceptance of diversity is the core of American culture". This must rank in the top 10 of wrong statements ever made. American literature, especially by our ex-
presidents cite one example after another, refuting this wrong idea.
As is the case with all nations, it is true as well with the USA that we are a
stable, historically developed community of people with a territory, economic life,
DISTINCTIVE CULTURE, AND LANGUAGE IN COMMON.
As ex-president Theodore Roosevelt said : "of the immigrant, he or she must become an American and nothing but an American..There can be no divided allegiance here...
We have room but for one flag, the American flag...We have room but for one language
here and that is the English language...and we have room but for one sole loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people."
The trouble with illegal aliens is that they want us to be tolerant of them, as a definition of diversity. Hogwash! They are burglars raiding our economy and state &
local treasuries - we need not be tolerant of that any more than to be tolerant of the
burglars breaking into our houses. Diversity is OK only up to the point where it begins to impose on our national identity, and no further. Mexican flags, Spanish language,
overloaded homes - all no nos.
I wasn't supporting suspect in question being granted bail, I simply think it should have been denied for reasons that had nothing to do with his immigration status. His history indicated he was a vlolent criminal and even a citizen with that history should have been denied bail. I also agree with Mel, that before being deported he should have to pay the penalty for his illegal violent actions. I find the deporting of violent criminals no more defensible than I did when Castro did it.