Illegals Aren't a Race...So You Are NOT A Racist If You Don't Support Them.

depends if you single out say spanish speaking over eastern european speaking illegals. get my drift

Of course! I agree with you. This has nothing to do with race. I didn't even know some people were being called "racist" for following the law. Geesh.

Carol even if you single out spanish speaking ones they still come from different places and have different nationalities....I am against illegals period...I dont care where they come from.
They are criminals same as drunk drivers and noone has ever called me a racist for not supporting drunk drivers.....get my drift....LOL

Selene I have seen many people...including myself called a racist or a xenophobic for not supporting illegals.

True..if you say Illegals and not their race.

I agree 100%.

Lori - That is uncalled for. No one should call you or anyone a "racist" for disliking people who break the laws. So, what's next? If people don't like murderers (assuming they are not innocent), then those people are racists too? Crazy.

I am sorry you had to suffer from some people's stupidity.

I have featured this in my Legal Immigration group.

I don't like paying taxes on anyone other than myself!

Ohhh but Lori, if you're talking about illegals you have to be talking about hispanics, right?
Just because they are the largest majority of the illegals, does not mean we are singling them out, I like others are very open minded about this. If you're not here legally, then get the hell out of here, I'm tired of paying for you.
I think even if most do not say that, many feel that same way.

Oh my gawd Lori....thank you! If you are not a resident of this country....you should not live here illegally. Period!

I guess there was a big protest in LA today because we deported an illegal alien who was a strong opponent of immigration laws. A protest. Classic.

I'm willing to open the door, but we as Americans have to know who comes thur our door. That's for best long term interests of the immigrant and America.

Excellent point, 'illegal IS not a race'. They let in millions of unknowns yet protect
themselves with a fleet of security. We don't have to be weather men to tell which way the wind is blowing, sounds like a plot to kill the middle class and dilute our rights.
I feel a switch coming on where Americans are slowly going back to buying American toys, human food, pet food, fruits, veggies and workers.
Does anyone sense the same?

They are Illegal therefore why does anyone support them. Next is is going to be racist to not like house robbers.

Am I a racist if I do not support rapists, if they happen to be Spanish? Am I a racist if I do not support my neighbor who steals electricity? Am I a racist if I don't support the people who illegally collect welfare? NO.

So I do not support ILLEGAL aliens, no matter what their origin!

That is true, Lori. Being anti-illegal immigration is not racist. However, many of the AIIs here on Gather do make many racist statements about illegals, and I do consider them racists.

Elizabeth you have to define a particular race and say a comment directed to that race and that race alone to be a true racist.....there are illegals from many countries currently in the USA....even if you singled out a language...like spanish....that still doesnt make you a racist. Not all people that are spanish speaking are of the same race.

I disagree. That's not how the EEOC or federal case law define discrimination based on race. That maybe how YOU define racism personally but that's not how it's defined legally. Nor is that how national origin discrimination is defined. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.

Indeed...to use an analogy, under the "Lori F." theory of racism, I could discriminate all I wanted against Anglos, English Speakers, Blue eyed people...but as long as I don't use the magic word "White People" I'm not a racist. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Elizabeth I am not using a text book definition of racism. Again just because I dont support illegals....any illegals...doesnt make me a racist.

How many times have you heard me attack a specific group of people? Never. You are way off base.

Lori, Illegals can't race. Their too slow. Their poor little bodies just can't take it due to them being starved to death for generations. The only way that they can keep living is to steal their way into this country and "do the work Americans won't do". Which is what all the illegal immigrant attorneys would like us to believe. Mexico doesn't want all of these non-racers in their country any longer. Ten to Win.

Again -- for the second time -- I have not accused you of being racist. My point is simply that (1) your definition of racism is too narrow and (2) there are certain people on Gather who are involved in the AII issue who are definitely racists.

Elizabeth..who are the racists here on Gather that are opposed to illegal immigration?

So far..all you have done is support Lori's point.

Lori, Your definition of racism is correct, absolutely, and due to there being only three races in our world, I would say how could it be any other way. The people screaming RACIST all the time don't have any idea what their own race happens to be.

True racism is borne of ignorance. For me,it doesn't take too much imagination to see who the bigots really are. Good Article.

Agreed. Succinctly put, Lori.

Bob....Another card here?

The Illegal Immigrants are a Race Card?

GREAT BIG TEN !!!!!!!!!!!!

This reminds me a little of the argument that Hitler wasn't a racist and didn't try to commit genocide because "Jewish" isn't considered a race. Would bigot or xenophobe be a more accurate term? I hear that in Germany they use "Ausländerfeindlichkeit", which translated as "hatred of foreigners" or "hostility against foreigners."

I'm not saying everybody who is anti-illegal immigrant is a racist or a xenophobe or a bigot or makes racist, xenophobic, or bigoted comments. I'm just wondering if it really matters which particular word is used.

Wil...What race do you believe illegal immigrants to belong to?

"What race do you believe illegal immigrants to belong to?"

The human race?

Like I said Tim, if you don't think the word "racist" is appropriate, what word would you prefer? Bigoted? Xenophobic? Discriminatory?

Do you think it's unfair to describe Hitler as a racist?

Tim and Lorie, you have to remember, Elizabeth has a degree in Engeneering, and as she pointed out earlier, she knows more than the rest of us.

Your right I don't believe those not wanting undocumented workers heres are not racist. But it has brought about prejudice against even those that are documented workers. Because guess what you can't tell if someone is here legally or illegally by looking at them. Many are here and have become Americans, and guess what? They are told by people to go home. Some have been born here are third and fourth generation Americans and are still told to go home.

Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. In general, it implies coming to a judgment on the subject before learning where the preponderance of the evidence actually lies, or formation of a judgement without direct or actual experience. The quality of adversely prejudging entire groups of people without knowledge or examination of facts with which to form informal judgments.

There are those for who the shoe fits and they should wear it. It is one thing to speak out about illegal and how you think it should be fixed. It is another to slam a whole group of people because that is prejudice pure and simple.

I don't know who is and who isn't but everyone must realize prejudice doen't need a race.

"everyone must realize prejudice doen't need a race."

Well said, Nanina. Thank you. :)

So what about the illegals that come to the United States and commit crimes...violent crimes....rape and murder. And Wil I am having a hard time with the comparison of Hitler and the illegals. Hilter was a psycho that lead a nation and world into war and killed too people for nothing else than his own pleasure and twisted desire to rule the world. How does this compare to 12+ illegals in this country...who is being killed?

I guess I should have used my spell checker.

"everyone must realize prejudice doesn't need a race."

That being said very few of us walk around without prejudice. Most of us keep them to ourselves. While I don't support undocumented workers entering our country illegally. Let's be realistic, there is a backlash to those that are here legally. That backlash is called prejudice. That prejudice can be based on looks, accents, culture. I have a friend who told me that he is about ready to stamp 2nd generation American on his forehead. A week doesn't go by that he isn't told to back from where he came. His parents were born in California as was he. He likes living in Colorado with his wife and children. He doesn't want to go back to California where the cost to live is higher.

Some people are prejudice against the elderly, yet no one would even think it was alright to say "hey it is time to go your using up my air."

It kind of relates to how , say for instance, Muslims treat the radical Muslims. If good people don't stand-up against the bad people, it creates the illusion of unity among them. If you want to call that predicial, racial, hate mongering, or anything else that suits your agenda, be my guest. But the truth is, If people come over here to plunder what belongs to the citizens of the U.S. without at least trying to assimilate, Then those people are not wanted in this country. They need to go home and turn their country into whatever their little hearts desire. Generation after generation have went to war and lost their lives to protect the freedoms that are ours.

hey, you're from Iowa!
I was raised in Iowa!
If you say so, then it is true!!!


weren't we connected???

Ya we were Randee I didnt disconnect from you did you disconnect from me? I think our relationship has sustained a gather glick...I will send you an invite.

Ok Randee I was trying to send you a connection request but I cant....you try me.

Such passion evoked, and aimed at the wrong targets!

Lori is correct.

Illegals are...umm...pay attention here....ILLEGAL. They are breaking the law. They do not need to add to this insult with the serious injury of then costing ME money to keep their sorry arses off the streets and healthy.

Am I racist because I want every last one of them OUT of my country?

Why?

My previous response was erased by a glitch in the system,but here it is again in a nutshell: The people who say they are above it all are lying. If the illegal immigration problem impacted them directly,they would be down there with us pressing for a solution. For those on the left to be screaming racism,it seems like so much hypocrisy.-Norman

Chandra that is one of the things I love about you....you get IT....now where is your first chapter entry I have been looking for it all day.

Email me a link

Ya mike kind of makes you wonder. Imagine one of these bleeding hearts playing on the sympathies and picketing the mexican...just for example purposeds only....government. Do you think they would buy the invisible border and human race BS or would their butts be in Mexican jail faster than you say Tequilla.

Mike, The pro-illegals mantra: "If you enforce your borders or try to keep the laws of the land intact, then you're a racist"

I could be wrong, but because many illegal immigrants are dark skinned and many of the people who are out spokenly against illegal immigrants refer to their nationality and skin color often, I think there are quite a few people who see opposition to illegal immigration as a way to express their racist ideas in a socially acceptable manner.

I'm against illegal immigration myself. I haven't seen anyone in politics or private life propose a solution that's humane and cost effective. I'm hoping we can solve the problem.

"Wil I am having a hard time with the comparison of Hitler and the illegals."

I didn't compare Hitler to the illegals.

"I'm against illegal immigration myself. I haven't seen anyone in politics or private life propose a solution that's humane and cost effective. I'm hoping we can solve the problem."

Same here, Nippy Katz. Not only have I not seen a plan that might actually work, a lot of the "solutions" I've heard about are actually worse than the problem.

Nippy/Wil, I'm sure that you have heard plenty of "solutions" but one that is working and working well is..... attrician through enforcement equals self deportation. The word is out, Ice is finally doing the job that they get paid to do. Towns are enacting laws, (some might be short lived), to discourage illegal aliens from invading their towns. The illegals are on the move, whether its going back to their homeland, or moving to a sanctuary city. The sanctuary cities are in statutory violation of U.S. immigration laws. By their defiance of U.S. laws, these sanctuaries or "civil liberties safe zones," as some call themselves, are undermining the American Republic. So this too will "dry-up" as time goes on. Once the leaders of these so called santuary safe havens spend a little time in jail for this, their tune will change. This is for you Wil, USA v. Francine La May:
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/fifteen-three/xv-3-192.pdf
As you can plainly "see" this door is coming to a close. If you know someone that might fall into this category, or better yet, fits this profile. You might want to help these people by directing them to start their citizen papers as soon as possible.
Wil, what are you doing up so early in the morning? Isn't there a 12 hour time difference.

The pro-illegals mantra:??
I don't know anyone who is pro-illegal immigrants.

Don't get out much Nanina? All you have to do is look around a little bit. Any immigration attorney would most likely be pro-illegal. Remember the Amnesty that our congress tried to shove down our throats a few months ago? In that amnesty bill there were provisions that the American people paid the attorney fees for the illegal aliens that were applying for amnesty. Who do you think tried to slip that in there?

"one that is working and working well is..... attrician through enforcement equals self deportation"

If it's working well then I guess I don't see why some people are making such a fuss about illegal immigration being such a problem. Sounds like the problem is being taken care of.

"Once the leaders of these so called santuary safe havens spend a little time in jail for this, their tune will change."

You think mayors and other city officials in sanctuary cities are going to go to jail for harboring illegal aliens? I hope you're not holding your breath, Bob. I'm still looking into it, but I don't think the cases Mr. Walsh cited are relevant.

"Any immigration attorney would most likely be pro-illegal."

Would they? I thought a lot of immigration lawyers made money by helping people immigrate legally.

I get out quite frequently Bob, thanks for your concern.

All immigration attorneys are not pro-illegal. That is not where the money is Bob. The money is helping those who wish to come here, be here legally. That is a much easier process then to try to represent someone who is already here illegally. If immigration attorneys were pro-illegal then they might as well close up shop, eh? There would be nothing for them to do.

Most illegal immigration cases are taken pro bono. Lawyers in the United States are recommended under American Bar Association (ABA) ethical rules to contribute at least fifty hours of pro bono service per year.

As it stands right now Nanina, but if the congress keeps pressing for amnesty, I guarantee that the provision for attorneys to be paid by the American people will be in there. Page 943 in small print? If that isn't in itself a reason for immigration attorneys to get on board, I don't know what is. Humanity doesn't seem to run in attorneys blood.

Wil, Are you kidding me, holding my breath that long for congress to get its ducks in a row? As to attorneys being paid for services rendered, I believe I answered the same question for Nanina. Instead of ambulance chasers, we now are going to "see" border jumper chasers, if congress has its way.

" Wil, Are you kidding me, holding my breath that long for congress to get its ducks in a row?"

Congress doesn't enforce the law, Bob.

Come on Wil, Who told you that. Read down to section 5.
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Wil, since were on the 14th amendment maybe you would like to sign this petition:
http://www.birthrightpetition.com/
It's got some other fine articles in it also.

Yes, Bob as it stand right now, but you said "All you have to do is look around a little bit. Any immigration attorney would most likely be pro-illegal."

I am looking around right now and what you say isn't true. Immigration attorneys aren't pro-illegals. You are speculating on what you think could happen if congress offers amnesty. There is a lot of ifs there and no facts to what you say.

So we will talk again Bob, if congress and if what you think will happen happens, then we will discuss it.

Nanina, Here's an Url of some pro-illegal people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1R6EDVYmmo
Nanina, mostly is a very powerful word if you can read it.
As far as facts, that... it seems is what I have mostly of. I'm not like pro-illegals that have absolutely no facts.

Well Bob, I guess you would know about Pro-illegals - Since like I told you I don't know any who are. So I guess the fact that you know people who are puts you one up on me.

" Come on Wil, Who told you that. Read down to section 5."

I've read it, Bob. Many times. It says "...by appropriate legislation..."

In other words, they create the laws. But the executive branch enforces the laws.

" Nanina, Here's an Url of some pro-illegal people:"

I watched the whole clip. Didn't hear anybody saying anything about being pro-illegal. Didn't see any pro-illegal signs. Which ones were the pro-illegal people?

" I could be wrong, but because many illegal immigrants are dark skinned and many of the people who are out spokenly against illegal immigrants refer to their nationality and skin color often, I think there are quite a few people who see opposition to illegal immigration as a way to express their racist ideas in a socially acceptable manner."

I think you're right, Nippy Katz. I'm not saying everybody who is expressing concern about illegal immigration is doing this, but I think it's clear that some are. Like Nanina said, some of the people who say they're concerned about illegal immigration seem to include people who are are in the country legally as well. People who are citizens, and who have parents and even grandparents who are citizens.

What was it Bob said earlier? "If people come over here to plunder what belongs to the citizens of the U.S. without at least trying to assimilate, Then those people are not wanted in this country." Nothing about legal or illegal, just that if you're going to come to America you'd better start acting whatever Bob thinks an American should act like, or he doesn't want you to stay in his country.

His words remind me of something Russ Dove (one of the characters Bob introduced me to through one of his YouTube links) said before he was arrested in Tucson -- "Get out of my country you foreign national pigs! Get out!"

Hey Lori - no entry in this contest. It's romance, and I am NOT a romance writer. LOL

Now, if Gather ever has a children's or fantasy contest...I'm there!

Wil, Just who do you think creates it? Legislation is usually proposed by a member of the legislature (e.g. a member of Congress. Wil you need to go on a vacation, I think all this pro-illegal stuff is getting you wound-up tighter than a cheap watch. I think that since I am a citizen of this country and I do vote, I've a right to my opinion stating that I don't want anyone invading my country. Are you trying to tell me we citizens don't have that right. We as a whole have LEGISLATION in this country that are designed to protect its citizens from people that disrespect its laws.
Nanina, I happy for you that you don't know any pro-illegals. Keep following the articles at Gather, you will find that there are quite a few of them right here.

Lori, Michelle Malkin agrees with you, as well as the rest of us Citizens that are fed-up with this B.S. check out this Url:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHr192m0CQk

Thanks Bob.

Chandra OK I think you would write a good romance but if its not your thing...I like your scifi.

Bob...

Usually, you have to break out the Jumbo Crayons in order for Wil to understand! LOL!

Bob...

Aztlan reconquistas, Mexica movement...and Wil says: "Didn't see any pro-illegal signs. Which ones were the pro-illegal people?" ROFLMAO!

Sorry HG, but I don't see how people can be "pro illegal" if their basic argument is that indigenous people can't be illegal. I can see where they're coming from, but I don't agree with their "go back to Europe" ideas. How can they be "pro illegal" if they see "Europeans" as the illegals?

Wil wrote " Sorry H.G., but I don't see how people can be ' pro illegal' if their basic argument is that indegenous people can't be illegal"

So Wil..I suppose that the Russians are indegenous to New York? And the Chinese are indegenous to Chicago? And the Thai are indegenous to California? And the Mexicans are indegenous to Detroit? And the Hondurans are indegenous to Kentucky? And the Salvadorians are indegenous to Tennessee?

Lori F. -

The term "racist" when applied, is supposed to be the equivalent of a nuclear bomb being dropped on you. There's no recovery from it. Those on the Left are quick to push that shiny red button when losing an argument about illegal aliens. Its cheap and shameless.

"So Wil..I suppose that the Russians are indegenous to New York? And the Chinese are indegenous to Chicago? And the Thai are indegenous to California? And the Mexicans are indegenous to Detroit? And the Hondurans are indegenous to Kentucky? And the Salvadorians are indegenous to Tennessee?"

Why would you suppose that, Tim? That's not what I said, and from what I can tell, that's not what groups like the Mexica Movement is saying.

Wil..obviously you have no clue as to the origins of illegal immigrants who are currently in our country..do you?

" Wil..obviously you have no clue as to the origins of illegal immigrants who are currently in our country..do you?"

Tim, are you trying to tell us that groups like the Mexica Movement are "pro-illegal" because they're claiming that "the Russians" are indigenous to New York, "the Chinese" are indigenous to Chicago, etc.?

thanks for sharing. as long as a specific race isn't mentioned then you are correct.

The folks in power in every country determine who they want and don't want in THEIR country. The boundaries in most of the civilized world are pretty well defined. The Illegal Aliens who don't want to follow the rules of the country they are invading don't like those rules, obviously. However, they shouldn't have a lot of say, since they are no better than illegal squatters in a foreign land. The mere fact that there's a lot of them shouldn't stop us from enforcing our laws.

I don't give a damn whether the Illegal Aliens are Norwegian, Russian, Mexican, Chinese, black, white, brown, or plaid - they simply don't belong here unless approved formally by the State Department and INS. That usually implies a U.S. passport, green card, or some type of official documents saying they can be here.

Wil..Is this article about the Mexica Movement? If so, I suppose that I missed something.

And Wil..can you explain how someone from Mexico can rightfully caim that they are the indegenous people of Illinois...Kentucky..New York ..Michigan..Wisconsin or Tennessee ?

" Wil..Is this article about the Mexica Movement? If so, I suppose that I missed something."

No, it's not. It's about racism, prejudice, bigotry, or whatever you'd like to call it. Bob's the one who posted the link to the video of the "pro illegal people" and HG is the one who pointed out that some of them were somehow associated with the Mexica movement. If you want to get the discussion back on-topic, go for it.

" And Wil..can you explain how someone from Mexico can rightfully caim that they are the indegenous people of Illinois...Kentucky..New York ..Michigan..Wisconsin or Tennessee ?"

No Tim, I can't. Who's doing that?

Bret W and I don't agree on much, but we agree on this.

Wil wrote " Sorry H.G., but I don't see how people can be ' pro illegal' if their basic argument is that indegenous people can't be illegal"

Wil, are you really as stupid as you portray yourself to be? When people, no matter how "indigenous" they may be, cross an established border of a country in which laws exist that prohibit such crossing, the term "illegal" would apply. So yes, Wil, indigenous people CAN be illegal and thus have no argument whatsoever. Just ask the "indigenous" people to the south of the Mexican border, where they are dealt with severely for crossing into Mexico.

" How can they be "pro illegal" if they see "Europeans" as the illegals?"

This is just more of your rhetoric to downplay the issue. But what you fail to realize (or admit) is that they are pro illegal immigration when it comes to illegals from south of the U.S. border. If they "see" or pretend to see Europeans as illegals then that shows just how ignorant they are due to the fact that in order to be 'illegal' one must have broken a law. As I recall, when the European 'settlers' came here there were no borders defining a country and there were no laws pertaining to illegal entry.

Great post. People over-use the term "racism" to the point that it starts to lose it's meaning. This is pretty sad, because the original meaning is pretty important and needs to be preserved.

Illegal immigration is a serious problem and needs a serious and coordinated response to enforce the laws already on the books. We need fences, we need surveillance, we need expedited deportation, we need a bigger and better Coast Guard.

I'm all for LEGAL immigration; I have several friends who I met in college who came here for other lands, and was thrilled to pieces when they stayed here after graduation, got naturalized, and have for all intents and purposes integrated into American society and culture. One of from Sweden, one from India, and others from elsewhere (Hong Kong, Thailand, and Brazil that I can think of off the top of my head). They are great people and are contributing greatly to our economy.

Illegal immigration, on the other hand, is a huge net DRAIN on our economy, with lots of illicit crime, and drug trafficking going on, not to mention their clogging of our emergency rooms, causing issues with our education system, and in some cases, even drawing welfare benefits!