First Chapter Romance People: Someone to Talk To

Just to start the ball rolling: Some of us tried to keep track of the number of entries. Our incomplete and totally unofficial tallies say that there were somewhere between 300 and 350 entries, probably around 330.

Some will probably be disqualified for one reason or another. I'm guessing that there will probably be around 300 actual entries. Twenty-five of those will make it to the semi-finals. Five will make it to the finals, and there is only one guaranteed winner.

If there are 300 entries, 295 of us will not be published, will not receive $5000 or even $500. For the 295, the experience of the contest will be what we take home with us. I was in the original First Chapters contest. I didn't win anything, but I got a large and very helpful batch of comments and became a better writer because of them. It's possible to win this contest without coming anywhere close to being in the money. I hope that most of the 295 or more non-finalists walk away as better writers and see the First Chapter experience as a positive one. I hope that if I'm among the 295 plus non-finalists I can walk away with that attitude.

Dale, that's exactly the kind of positive experience I came away from the original First Chapters contest...the feedback, freely given, was invaluable and helped me to grow as a writer. So I still felt like a winner!

Lee...as a scarred survivor of First Chapters 1...I have to break it for you...be prepared for gratuitious nastiness, stupidity and drive-by low ratings. FC1 quickly devolved into a Darwinian tooth n' claw slugfest. I'm hoping that the Romance contest will be a little more civilized - fewer entries, at least - but I'm betting it won't all be fair and balanced.

Some of us here have vowed to do our best as readers and critics, but there are bound to be some knuckle-headed sock puppets out there sliming things up.

A huge improvement this time around is the pointlessness fo rating someone else low, since only 10's count in the voting. And Lee, not only will fellow contestants be reading and rating, any member of the Gather community can do so. That includes writer's friends, families, coworkers, etc. And folks like me, who just enjoy reading. We strive for a community of thoughtful input, couteous behavior, and respect. Just like in the real world, it doesn't always happen. But Dale, and folks like him and this thread can be your refuge if things get rough out there.

Good luck.

Fortunately, only votes of "10" count toward the contest in any way. People might give drive-by low scores, but it won't affect the outcome... which is good! :)

Lee, luckily the nasty commenters are generally inept critics, so you probably won't have much trouble separating the useful critique from the b.s.

Hi, all! Nice to meet you, Lee.

Yep, the true value of these contests is the feedback and meeting new people.

I'm not sure about the deadline thing. It says the manuscript must be time marked before midnight. Is it specific about the posted chapter? Not sure.

This waiting for it to begin is the hardest part - at least so far. Okay, that's a lie. Trying to cut 10,000 words to meet the 100,000 maximum word count was the worst part. I'm sure that opinion will change as soon as I get my first scathing review. :)

Good luck everyone!

And what in the hell happened to Ann B? Why is every Wombat out there trying to free her?

She can't post any more, Double-G. Something to do with the update. And the Gather technical "support" crew is being, well, kinda snippy and unhelpful.

I wish each and everyone who has entered the contest much love and luck! (That includes me). I think that the new vote rating is going to be a big help to everyone. As far as the critics go...well...they come and go. You know that your manuscript is raw and needs critiquing, we all do. But, the ones that give the helpful comments will be much appreciated by all of us.

Dale's done everyone a great service by setting up these threads where contestants can chat and compare and commiserate and have fun! Good job, Dale. Good luck, romance writers!

Go Dale! Go Dale! Go Dale! (That seems to be my cheer these days...)

As to FC nastiness - anyone who was watching the Top 20 finalist list pop up during the original FC can attest to the witch hunt that started when my name popped up twice! I thought the critics were tough - ouch! I was in no way prepared for personal attacks that day! Taking my Finalist status and making it oh so painful...

And here I am doing it again. What does that say about me? LOL.

I will say that those critics who offer constructive criticism are the true value in this contest to the non-winners. At least this go-round we can all defend Romance, as opposed to me and my lone RWA-Statistic Sword. Thank God.

Good luck to everyone. Here's hoping we don't have to deal with the nastiness, but if we do, just remember - it's preparing you for the reviewers! ;)

Dale look at it like this....cant be any worse than the first chapters contest....LOL

I wasn't around for FC1, but I continue to read they had over 2,700 entries the last time.

Now with they have less than 400, which is less entries than the "Golden Heart award," from Romance Writers of America, recieve anually, and they don't get a publishing contract!

After reading what happen in the last contest does anyone think what took place in FC1 affected the amount of entries this time around?

Most of the reviews I've read about FC1 were not good reviews.
Too cut-throat, cynical, elitist, unfair, critical, broad, harsh, mean spirited...

Can anyone ease my worries that this contest will actually be different?

I'm one of those people I want the criticism. Up to this point my sister/editor has been my only critic.
I am also anal. I have counted 287 entries. 23 of which are not formatted in the least and as Dale said are probably in the disqualified pile. 4 don't meet word count and 2 are beyond .... Ok I still haven't found a nice way to put it, I'll just say omg! That is out of the 60 I've had a chance to read.
Also, out of that 60 I've had the privilege of find around 5 absolute 10's. And that is what this is all about.
So to the future finalists Congrats. To everyone else try again, because without trying you never know.

Micha - We can always hope. I do think, however, that reality set in during the last FC (FC1 for ease of referral) contest when people saw the number of entries climbing. I came in on the last day and had had no exposure to Gather at all. That being said, I did come into it from the American Title contest which enabled me to bring my "sock puppets" (friends who came only to vote for me). However, that alone won't do it. Gatherians (?), as I've found, are on the whole, well read. We know if what we're looking at is good and word spreads.

FC1 was a slugfest as Lisa called it b/c there were sooooo many genres. The Top 20 reflected that.

I do hope we'll see a "kindler" review system than we did last time. My experience with entering and judging RWA contests has been that, for the most part, Romance writers are a giving lot and expend the energy to give good feedback. In FC1 you just had a free-for-all.

There are going to be new writers in this contest and people who are here just for the chance at an honest critique and aren't here for the win - because, really, there can only be one winner (though, S&S did publish 2 from FC1...). I almost wasn't going to enter this just because of the nastiness of last time - you WOULD NOT believe the emails I got slamming me, my writing, my story and my genre - but then I had so many people contacting me about this new round and would I enter?

I went back and printed out the good comments and the bad comments from FC1 and when I saw how many good outweighed the bad, and the emails, not to mention my personal experience with Romance writers, I figured why not?

For those of you who haven't seen my article on thoughts about this contest, here's the link:

On Romance... First Chapters Contest Thoughts

Thanks Judi. I am hoping for some good honest opinions about my writing. In your honest opinion do you think I made the right decision in entering my MS in this competition instead of the Golden Heart?

Hey Micha -- this is at least FREE compared to the Golden Heart! :) Plus, the GH gives ZERO feedback. None. Judges are NOT ALLOWED to comment, you get a number.
This contest will give you MUCH more feedback... it will help you develop a thick skin... and, like Judy said, there's the very real potential for a publishing contract in the end!

I'm looking forward to completely objective comments -- people who don't know me from Eve, and therefore, aren't inclined to give me the sugar-coated version.

Stacy - I haven't read as many as you, but I'll agree, there were a few entries out there that just blew me away! I've done some judging, like Judi, in the Golden Heart and have seen and enjoyed many different types of romance, many that I don't regularly read. Good luck to all of us! And may we all develop a very thick skin . . at least for the next few weeks!

Actually, one of my chaptermates sold because of finalling in the Golden Heart - and then she won it! Talk about a great night this year at National! I was in the front row with her.

As to the Golden Heart - this contest will be over by the time entries start for the GH - you can enter both. But like Sarah says, you get NO feedback from the GH. Just five numbers. It's always fun to see what those 5 numbers turn out to be, though this year they broke my heart b/c I missed finalling by .5!!!

I just recently joined Gather. I had completed my novel quite a long time ago but was too intimidated to send it to any publishing companies. I googled writing contests so that I could get used to having my work out there and found Gather. I'm still trying to figure the site out. Is there an area where just the first chapters are kept all together? Or is it a hunt and search type system to find everyone's stories? I'd love to start reading everyone else's stories and picking my faves. I'm sorry if these questions are pretty basic but like I said ~ I'm new. Thanks for the help.

Celicia - I'm new too, so there may be a better answer, but I just clicked on the articles tag on the top. Then I searched past articles by First Chapter, Romance. There are quite a few entries posted. Have fun!

Judi -- that's a good point. Maybe I'll take the critiquing here so I can polish my MS for the GH. It would be nice to have some of the kinks hammered out by than. I also want to fix up my MS before I begin to submit it to agents.

It would be nice to win, but I realized I'm not well connected enough to make a serious push.
Banking on the gather editorial team to push me through is a long shot because there are some very good chapters out there.

Good luck to all the competitors! There are some very good first chapters out there and it is a pleasure to be in this company of writers.

Cecilia, all of the chapters should be posted in one place when the contest opens on Monday for voting...

The First Chapters group will list all of the entries with links to your articles. That will post on Monday. If it's anything like last time, probably around 11 am EST. It's important to note that the chapters are going to stay right where they are now; the links should be listed on the First Chapters Romance page.

FYI - We will all be earning points as people comment and vote, so you can turn those points in for gift certificates. So, see? We do all win something!

Thank you so much! I hoped that there would be something like a First Chapter index (so to speak). That will make it so much easier. I can't belive I'm saying this but...I wish it were Monday. LOL. Thanks again for the help.

I'm in the same boat with Celicia. I have been working on my manuscript for years. It was completed, and I wasn't confident so I put it away for awhile, then take it out and edit and rewrite, then hide it again. About a year ago, I let someone else read it, and she passed it to her daughter and they really encouraged me to actually do something with it besides read it and re-write it. I have to have at least 10 versions of it by now. I don't have any intention of sending it out to a publisher until it's completely ready, so I am hoping the comments from Gather will help. If its bad, tell me why. If its good, tell me why. I will simply dismiss the haters and jealous types who throw out the nasty comments just because they are bored. Besides, any criticisms are simply their opinion and we dont have to take it as a fact. Unless it's typos or something grammatical. It's kind of hard to refute those!

Hi, all.

Dale, good idea to start up this thread. Like Dale and Judi, I'm a veteran of the original First Chapters contest. The constructive feedback was very valuable and has definitely helped me to be a better writer. It is really useful to let readers check out your work and hear what works and what is not getting through.

I wrote an article on that experience and my thoughts coming into this contest at:
Countdown to First Chapters Romance.

Celicia, I'm going to bookmark your "I wish it were Monday" comment. Three weeks from now, I'll bet you add a comment saying "Isn't this over YET??" LOL! No, really, relax and have fun. The first time, everyone was a newbie together. This time around, there are veterans to help you through it, threads like this to come and blow off steam, the rules have improved tremendously, the "stress period" has been shortened, and there are far fewer competitors. You'll have fun!

To find the entries before Monday, on the the left of your screen is a green box called "Try Your Own Tag". Put 'romance' in there, and you'll find all the entries, since that's the tag you are supposed to put on your entry. A 'tag' is just a kind of keyword search. Don't worry, Gather is a bit confusing even if you've been here awhile!

I had an entry in FC1, but this time around I am just a reader. I'll read as many entries as I can, and I'll try to give positive feedback and useful criticism whenever possible. Good luck to you all, and may the best Romance win.

If/when they hold a First Chapters Mystery competition, I know you'll all be there for me!

I'm new to Gather--and this writing contest is a really great opportunity to get your stuff read by people other then you sisters and best friends.

Wow, reading what happened in the first contest...it's a bit scary. I'm hoping that everyone has constructive criticism and I definately will be giving my two cents. Like a few people have said above, I'm hoping for some honest criticism and advice, suggestions and comments that will help my writing. As writers, don't you find it so HARD to read and judge your own writing? It's like looking in the mirror, you just can't be objective.

Good luck everyone!

I was in FC1 as well. Got a lot of great feedback on a science fiction novel I'd written. I entered a different novel in FC Romance (obviously), but I think the atmosphere is more relaxed this time. There are definately fewer entries. It was easy to be sent to the bottom of the "slush pile" in the first contest. I think everyone here has a good chance to be seen if you make the effort to get yourself noticed.

I plan to comment on everyone's chapter who comments on mine (time permitting!). I think if everyone reciprocates this way, we'll all get a lot of great feedback.

Monday can't come soon enough. Actually, the day this contest is over can't come soon enough.

I'm new to Gather, too, and not real confident navigating my way around. Thanks, Dale, for starting this thread and for the unofficial welcome! Good luck to everyone! It's always nice to be part of a friendly group of writers eager to improve their work.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this version of the contest being a much better experience than the first one. The rules are better designed. Only counting tens cuts out a lot of the problems. So does having all of the entries up all of the time instead of having a two week window. The number of entries is probably just about perfect. In FC1 the number of entries was about 10 times what Gather expected. Gather was totally overwhelmed by the numbers they got. Readers were overwhelmed. How do you find the good stuff among 2500 entries? Answer? You can't. Simple as that. Several really great entries didn't make it to the second round because almost nobody found them among the overwhelming number of entries. Among 300 entries you can be found. FCR also has the advantage in that quite a few people from FC1 are still around and determined to make FCR a good experience and one where as much as possible the best entries make it to the final rounds.

Hi everyone.

I'm new to Gather as I just heard about this website when inquiring about the contest. I've been reading some of the comments about the number of entries being around 300. ? approx. Why do you think there are so many fewer than last year (someone said about 2700)? Was it that brutal?

I am so thrilled to enter a contest that will give you a chance to have so many readers give you feedback (and I know I'll have to be prepared for the the bad, as well as hopefully, some good, constructive comments).

But, of course most of all, is the chance to have guaranteed publication by a major publisher is so fantastic. Wow. I know it's a long shot, but I'm still just surprised there aren't more entries.

Good luck, everyone. May your dreams come true.

Deb

I do have some advice for newbies - be sure to upload some kind of icon for yourself so you aren't just the generic Gather being - it really helps to have an image to identify yourself. It doesn't have to be a photo of yourself (as most of the icons here demonstrate).

Deb-
There weren't hardly any romance entries in the last contest. I wasn't sure we were going to make the 200 minimum required for the publishing contract to be awarded for this contest. Seems there are a lot of procrastinators out there. ;-) About half the entries came in the last 2 days.

I had the same worry as Jamie. Not enough entries. I hope we still have enough when they are done disqualifing those that don't meet the requirements.
I have to add that for future contests doing it by genre would be best. Smaller forum, the publishers get exactly what they are looking for, and there are not an overwhelming number of entries to read.
I could not imagine reading 3000 entries. 300 I can do.

Stacy, for FC1 I read hundreds of them - or tried to. I was so fried by the end that I could barely click on the link at times! It really was a debacle in a lot of ways. I think having these more focused contests is a definite improvement.

"Other Lisa" F. and others who participated in FC1 and read a lot of entries, I'm curious, did you have a system for reading the entries? Did start alphabetically through the list or read entries with titles that most appealed to you? I'm curious about the power of a title. Should we have all named our stories AAAcme Romance so we'd be at the top of the list . Is a unique title a selling point? I'd guess it is, but I'm curious if others think so, too. I'm guilty of amazoning my titles to make sure they're unique or nearly so.

Also, did you find yourself becoming jaded like editors and agents become after reading so many entries? By jaded, I mean, "oh, not this theme/plot/character name again!" Did you find yourself quickly able to tell what score you'd give an entry, say in the first page, paragraph, or even line? So many editors tell us they can tell in just a line or two if it's something they're interested in.

I've judged a lot of RWA contests, and although I always read each entry in its entirety, I find that my first impression of the story usually doesn't change. A poor story rarely improves as it goes along. Sometimes, a story does pick up after a page or two, a case where the author simply started in the wrong place. But usually not.

Hey, Jaimie: I got mine in about 5 minutes before the deadline. I'd just heard about this contest a couple of days before that.

Lisa, thanks for the info about the icon. I will download something this weekend.

Can't wait until Monday.
Deb

That was cutting it close, Deb. I knew about the contest the day it was announced, so I had not excuse. I posted several days before the deadline. I had plenty of time to whip that manuscript in shape.

Gina- Yes, definately. Your patience for mediocrity declines very rapidly when you read that many entries. And you can tell pretty quickly if it's something you like. I'd say first page for sure. Of course, opinions vary. I'm sure there will be things I like, that others do not, and things I don't like, that others do. Keep that in mind as your comments come in. Opinions vary. You can't please everyone.

Gina R. -- I've gotten to that same level of "knowing what I like when I see it" by reading and voting at the Romance Junkies website, and also in the Avon Fanlit contest last fall.
When someone is telling instead of showing, or dumping a lot of backstory, or using a weight amount of narrative -- MAN, does it stick out -- you start wanting something that holds your interest and moves at a quick pace.

I have an entry and am looking forward to the next few white knuckle weeks. I really appreciate all the comments I've received already and wish everyone good luck! Win or lose we'll all learn something new.

Dale I like the lounge, you've done a beautiful job decorating. Seems like a nice place to hang for the couple of weeks. At first I thought is was the Love Shack, what am suppose to do with all my jukebox money?

Good luck everyone!

I to hope that I get substantive feedback in the comments, but the experience good or bad is my next step. Besides as you wander around you'll find people who you really like to chat with and commiserate.

Thanks for starting this thread, Dale...Like many of you, things I've heard gave me pause. People like all of you give me hope!

Judi: With the general stigma against the romance genre, I can't imagine what it was like to be in the first contest! I'm glad to hear you were a finalist!

If you want to get something of the flavor of the range of comments you'll get in the contest, you might want to check out the comments on this
article. It's a slightly modified version of the chapter I used in FC1, but the comments are pretty typical of what I got in the actual contest.

Three of the last four comments are from sock puppet trolls left over from the great Junction Blvd sock puppet show. Veterans of FC1 will probably know what I'm talking about. For the newcomers--well, lets just say that one really awful, overwritten entry in FC1 made it far further in the contest than it should have. Then Gather upgraded it's anti-fraud techniques and that entry didn't go any further. I never accused the guy of fraud, and still won't but I put together and published spreadsheets that showed patterns consistent with fraud and difficult to explain any other way. The guy ended up not particularly liking me.

Gina, like Lisa, I read hundreds of entries in the first contest. To answer clearly the question upthread, the last contest was not for a specific genre. It was an anything goes free for all. All genres. It made it impossible to know what to expect, and difficult to judge.

The chapters will likely be posted by date recieved. After that, there are ways to sort (at the top of the listings) by most read, most discussed, most recent, etc. Depending on how you're doing or how someone sorts, you can go from the front page to the last in minutes.

Last time, new entries were posted every two weeks, and the first round went on for three months. And every point counted, not just tens. Readers had to be a lot more judgemental. And with almost 3000 entries, it wasn't easy. Yes, I got very burned out. I started out giving lengthy, helpful comments. After three months, if a chapter blundered in the first paragraph, I dumped it and moved on. Rather like a 'real' editor would. Expect that to happen here as well.

I know a couple of entrants, and know how hard they've worked to perfect their entries. They hold the bar I'll be measuring against. If you have typos, if you have poor grammar, if you have a less than compelling opening paragraph, you won't pass. If you don't understand what makes romance different than any other genre, it's going to show, and I'm going to pass. If you haven't learned the craft, or don't have enough pride in your work to present the cleanest MS you possibly can, I'll try to be helpful, but it won't rate a perfect 10. Perfect means unflawed, and an actual, real romance.

I don't write and I don't have an entry. What I do have is a collection of something like a thousand books, and probably 75-80% of them are romance. And I've spent the last 8 months hanging out with writers, especially romance writers. I'll try to be helpful where I can, but even 300 chapters in two weeks, while working a full time job, is a lot to get through. Believe me, I'll be looking for the ones that are easy to pass on, and spending my time on the ones who look like they are nearly ready for publication. Just like an editor.

Good luck to all the entrants, and really, do try to have fun!

I didn't really have a system for FC1, I just read as many as I could. Sometimes I sorted by "highest rated" just so I could see what was popular, other times I started at the beginning and slogged through.

The experience gave me a taste of what it must be like to be in charge of the slush pile at a publishing house.

Great place for comments Dale.

I wish I could write as well as some of the writers here at Gather, but I don't think I'd ever be able to pull off writing for the romance genre. I read too much of this stuff and in my opinion, I think my brain is way too muddled with what's already written and I'd never come up with something fresh. As it is, I've already read one romance novel and wondered if the author was a fan of another author I'd read! Does anyone else think like I?

As for reading FC1, for the most part, I followed other's comments and read and/or commented in that way--I especially followed Mike C. around a lot.

I wonder if Mike C will make an appearance this time.

I didn't really have a system in FC1 either. I started out trying to read the entries that were just about to end their two week period, but that was difficult given the setup of FC1. Then I tried reading the top-rated entries for a while, thinking that they would actually be the best ones. For the most part, wrong. After they stopped adding new entries I just started from the front and got as far as I could, trying to give each entry at least two or three paragraphs to hook me. If someone asked to read their chapter via e-mail I generally would if (a) they included a synopsis, (b) that synopsis was well written, (c) it included a link, (d) it didn't appear to be part of a mass e-mail, and (e) the author was out there commenting on other people's articles. If someone was just sitting back there spamming me and not commenting on anybody else's stuff, I tended to get to them when I got to them.

As time went on, I developed an informal network of fellow readers. If any of us found something good we would point the others to it.

In FC1, the sheer size of the field meant that the overwhelming issue was getting noticed. I happened to stumble across an outstanding chapter called The Raiders Wife which was just sitting there with almost nobody noticing it. I pointed as many people as I could toward it, but that wasn't enough, unfortunately. In terms of quality that should have been one of the finalist, but it just happened to be on the ninth or tenth page of the entries and almost nobody found it. The author is still on Gather and has been very gracious about it, but she had to have known that her chapter was head and shoulders above most of the finalists, and I've always wished that I could have figured out some way to help her more.

I wrote an article on my experiences in FC1 here. I want to emphasize that with 300-odd entries rather than 2500 this is going to be a very different contest. Hopefully all of the well-written entries will have a chance to get noticed.

Like Pat and Lisa, I read a fair number of First Chapters entries and my patience grew thin fairly soon. Things like poor grammar or lots of misspellings were real turn-offs. It was also annoying to read comments that had no content on entries that were slipshod.

On the other hand, there were many chapters that I liked quite a bit and was happy to comment on. There were also other cases where the story had possibilities, but the execution needed some help; I tried to offer constructive criticism where possible.

I think the biggest differences this time around are the level playing field (all entries stay for 3 weeks), simplified voting system, single genre and reasonable number of participants. All of these factors should help make for a better contest.

By the way, Kristen from Gather told me that the comments posted so far on the FCR chapters will stay, but the votes will start anew on Monday.

Thanks for clarifying that, James. I wondered if they'd clear the comments too.

What do you think of the fairness of making it a straight "highest #of votes" making the finals? Would it be more fair to say highest percentage of 10's?

That way, if a really great entry gets 10's from every single reader... but only 30 people read it... shouldn't that count as much/more than an entry where 300 people read it, but only 40 gave it a 10?

Though I think this new voting system will get rid of the Drive By 1 issue, it doesn't address sock puppets and the basic flaw - it's essentially a popularity contest. I know that what these contests are ultimately about is getting more members for Gather and increasing page clicks.

Oh well, at least with only 300 entries, good stuff isn't going to get lost like it did in FC1 (and I've said before, I agree with Dale about RAIDER'S WIFE - that was a good one that attracted very little attention).

True, popularity will get 15 entries into round 2, but 10 will get there via the judging panel. So everyone has a chance. Just hope your work appeals to the judging panel, or cover your bases and get out the vote!

I read almost 200 chapters in FC1. Spent way too long on some of my reviews, however, so I didn't get to near the number of chapters I wanted to. But I read from the back of the list, oldest to newest, trying to read chapters before they were taken down. I also didn't join Gather until some weeks into the contest, so I missed a lot of the first stories.

This should be much better in terms of number of folks reading each chapter. The Romance Group has over 1,000 members already, and that number will go up over the next few weeks. There's a better chance that readers will find your work and give it a shot.

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions! There's a lot more to the contest than I imagined when I entered.

I am going to attempt to read and comment on all of the entries although it may be difficult to accomplish around work. I have already read a lot of them so that should help. I also tried to post errors I found on ones I really liked so they could fix them in time before they are locked down on the 27th. After reading about FC1, I am happy to say I discovered Gather after it was over. I would have went crazy trying to keep up with that mess! Glad I missed the DB1's and Sock puppets.

Bonnie L: Re: being the only romance. Yes, it was a bit hairy. (As opposed to Big Hairy, and... never mind. Other FC1ers will get it.)

Anyway, I'd been prepared to defend the romance genre, so it's particularly nice to see that the second FC contest is just for romance. Though I have had to defend the genre to at least two people when the contest was announced - and these were people who voted and stomped for me in FC1! How funny (she asks, chillingly) is that?

Those of you who've been writing for publication in Romance know the stigma. RWA was very helpful to me with statistics and responses to give for the typical questions we always get. I contacted National when my finalist status was announced and have the stats still linked on my website. The fact that it's a billion dollar annual industry helps dispel some of the critics.

It was an interesting ride and the publicity was definitely worth it.

Judi: The first time I saw your stats posted in reference to a negative comment about the genre, I sat here in south Alabama and cheered my head off that you stood up to the poster.

I will continue you to cheer you on . . . and I envy you your sock puppets!

Bonnie

Thank you, ma'am! I bow to the applause. :)

Yeah, can't let them get away with that!

First, Welcome to all of our new members. Find and join some of the Romance and Writing groups, you'll be glad you did.

I was in the first FC and for the most part it was a really good experience. I came out of it a much better writer.

As for the fire storm, this is just my opinion, it was a lot of sour grapes. For Judi in particular.. 'a romance beat me? The horror of it all!' Pppllleeeaaaassseee!

This contest is set up so that all comments count in your favor by each individual. 10 from me won't do you any good, but one will. And there won't be any drive by 1s and if there are it won't effect the outcome.

Look for what you can use, even if it stings a bit at first. Disregard those who are jealous, and it can be a good experience.

Monday the games begin. I'm excited.

Hi Wendy - thanks for saying that. It's nice, even three months later, to hear people who commiserated. It was tough, but nice comments like this one helped make it bearable - and there were a LOT of nice people who stood up for the representative of our genre.

You are most assuredly welcome. Sometimes the truth is nice. smile

Here's a little tip: if this contest works the same way the last one did, the comments on your chapter will disappear when the chapter is taken down. You don't want to lose those comments. One way to avoid losing them would be to go to the chapter and press the "Print This" key. That key puts your article, including the comments, in printable form. At that point you can either go ahead and print, or you can copy the comments into a Word file. To do that, select just the comments, then press and hold the Ctrl key. While you are holding that key, press the "C" key. Now go to Word, go to the Edit menu and select "Paste". Your comments are now in a Word document.

I would advise doing that a couple of days before the contest ends, and then again shortly before the end of the voting period. It's too easy to get caught up in the excitement of the last minute voting and forget to do the last save, so if you've done it earlier at least you'll have the bulk of your comments.

Dale-
I wonder if we'll have to worry about that this time, since our chapters are on our own namespace, instead of gather being responsible for posting the entries. I'd print them just to be safe, but I don't see how gather could delete all of our entries as soon as the contest ends. Better safe then sorry though.

Dale, thanks for sharing your chapter along with the comments. It was a real eye opener! I can't believe people can be so nasty - taking personal swipes while giving worthless commentary? What's the point in that? A few of those people need to be directed to Miss Manner's website! Good luck to all!

I just posted an article called Rating the Contestants, which asks several questions about how you intend to rate and comment on the entries. Feel free to respond either on this thread or over there.

Thanks
Dale C.

Well, we're off and running. So far the comments seem mostly positive and things are off (knock on wood) to a smooth start. Anybody find themselves obsessing yet? Wait until the last week and the period between end of voting and the announcement of the semi-finalists.

Dale, this is a great article - I've really enjoyed reading the comments and feedback, and I truly hope that this competition is a better experience all around. I have a question for the group, though - in the original First Chapters competition, Gather published all the chapters, and this time around, the authors were able to do it themselves. For future contests, which way is best? We recognize that, especially for new members, posting your own chapter correctly can be a big hurdle for entering the competition, but the trade-off is that it is easier to find your own work, and promote it on and off of Gather. I'd love to hear all of your feedback!

PS - we received around 400 total entries. There were 299 eligible entries, but a few have been removed by the authors.

Just to clarify, as Jamie said, we will not be deleting any chapters from the site, since you have posted them yourselves, you will always be able to find them.

This is my first contest here or anywhere. I've been writing for years but never knew of such contests until a friend threw me a link. I didn't think i was ready to enter the first one. I got cold feet I guess. Anyway, I have been reading the competition and some of the comments made are rather crude. Its not that they cursed or anything, it was just their word "tone." I thought if some of these people are first time writers, well they will be greatly hurt. I like critisim but I only take it from those I know who offer it as true suggestions and not cruelty. I thought some of the comments could have had some 'good points' rather than just all bad. I also realized, by experiencing and reading some comments elsewhere that people were having a hard time posting their chapters which erased their indent's, etc. It made their chapters hard to read. I manually went down and corrected mine but in my title Chapter one, I couldnt get it centered right. Still i seen some posts where people came down on them for that when i dont think it was entirely their fault. Im gonna go back through now that I have more time and add something positive. Id hate to see people struck down especially if they are new to being read.
Anyway, Im open to critism, if its not crazy lol...My chapter is Bound By Blood: The Awakening.
Good luck to everyone here and I am sorry you had a rought time in the last one. Thanks for not giving up.
Isis

That's a good point. I'm trying to avoid rating people down because of formatting issues because I remember struggling with that quite a bit when I first joined Gather.

Kristen-
I like the control of posting my own. But if I was new to gather and not used to the interface, I'd probably feel differently. I tried to help a few people get their formatting correct before the contest deadline. They were very grateful for the assistance. Maybe if someone on the staff checked the formating and helped posters who had difficulty. I really do prefer this new method.

I was afraid to enter my first book in a contest before and now I'm also ready for feedback on it. The bad or the good that will help make my manuscript the best so I can send it into an Agent and they will accept it. I thank you Kristen and the other Editors for this contest:) Good luck to everyone:)

Thanks for the feedback, Jamie!

I'm new to Gather so I wasn't here for the first contest. Formatting was hard. But several people here gave me very helpful tips. This group is so warm and friendly! My formatting still isn't perfect. And I'm still learning how to do a hyperlink in Gather, but I'm getting better. I do like knowing where my article is. It's nice to be able to point people directly to it. And I did appreciate being able to edit it until the deadline. Although all the editing I did was formatting related.

Kristen--Maybe you could point newbies to an article with advice on how to post articles?

One of the realities of this contest, fortunately or unfortunately, is that if someone wants to they can easily know how you rated them. With a little bit of math you can easily know if, for example, the person that just gave you the glowing review and now wants you to come visit their page gave you a 10 to go with that glowing review or say an 8, or no rating at all.

Is the fact that you can know that sort of thing good or bad? It does probably tend to inhibit honest ratings a bit, because, well people can know what you gave them and may retaliate. On the other hand, it does let you know who is trying to be manipulative, and that's always a good thing to know.

I agree with you Dale. Which is why I'm afraid to comment on some of the entries I feel could use a little more revising...even though it's only my opinion. I'm afraid someone will go to my entry and trash it just because I gave a less than stellar critique. I also agree this is a bit of a popularity contest and those who've been here at Gather have a slight advantage. Right now, I'm just happy to have people read and know they enjoy the story. :-)

Micha, imo, unless you truly believe your manuscript is ready (ie; you've had agent interest) don't enter the Golden Heart. I only say this because you don't get any feedback whatsoever and you risk getting a judge with very little to no experience. I've judged several RWA contests, include the GH and there are so many times I wish I could contact an entry and let them know why their story didn't work.
If you're looking for more feedback to get your manuscript ready, I suggest entering one of the many chapter contests that are listed in the RWR because those give you feedback and as a finalist your entry is automatically read by an agent and or editor.
One of my critique partners used to final all the time in contests and last November she sold four manuscripts in one day.
Anyway....good luck all.

Terri
Contest Entry--DARK OBSESSION

Kristen - I did like being able to post mine. Last contest, my title, Beauty and The Best was entered as Beauty and the Beast, then Beauty and the Best, then finally the correct way. The staff was extremely cooperative, but it was over those last days and I'm sure they were pulling their hair out.

I, for one, am not rating anyone down on formatting issues. Unless they are glaringly non-Gather related, and, so far, I haven't come across any. I'm sure new people to Gather were frustrated, however, but I think it's the better option. However, I think people should be able to write FLAGGED on the entry above their first line since that has kept people from being able to see some of the entries who didn't want to shock anyone with words, scenes, what have you.

I obsessed a little on getting my formatting right. I was determined that I was going to get single spaces and an indentation between paragraphs even if I had to hand-code the HTML to do it, which I ended up doing. Looking back, the time might have been better spent elsewhere, but at least it worked.

I have a question and this is for everyone. I feel everyone has great entries but I also noticed to that some are not getting read and getting passed up. I feel everyone should be involved here and read everyone's chapter and comment if they need to do revisions or if the chapter flows. To me, this would be fair to everyone who also are waiting anxiously for feedback on their work and has gotten nothing. This is what I would call professional and also teamwork.. I for one, is one of those who have been passed by. My chapter is called: One Love in a Lifetime.

Thanks and Good luck to us all,
Josephine

It is tough when you don't get any reaction at all after all of you work. Part of the problem is that a high percentage of the readers so far have been contestants and if a contestant doesn't like another contestant's entry they have to tread carefully because of fear of retaliation. Contestants are also in an awkward position if they point out major flaws in someone else's work because that might cause other people to rate that work lower than they otherwise would.

The good news is that several people are working through the entries systematically and taking notes. They'll be back through with comments and ratings later in the reading period.

I didn't participate in the last contest - but I just wanted to say that I liked being able to post my own chapter, have that direct link to it immediately & have the opportunity to go back & edit it up until the contest date. I didn't have any formatting issues; I just copied & pasted from Word, & I even used the regular paste instead of the Word paste. So just lucky on that one, I guess!

And as to Dale's last comment - I was having some of the exact same thoughts! I went into commenting w/ the idea that I'd be positive, but also try to point out anything I thought needed editing. I quickly realized that might not be the best tack. I think we writers often tend to shut out the positive comments & latch onto the negatives, blowing them way out of proportion. We spend so much time on our work - especially a full length novel like the ones submitted for this competition. And it's only human not to want to turn around & rate someone else a 10 when they just pointed out a flaw in your own work.

Anyway, I guess the only thing we can do is always try to be both positive & fair! And from what I've read, it seems like most of the people who have been commenting are coming from this place, whether they've pointed out flaws or not.

Dawn ;)

The good news is that several people are working through the entries systematically and taking notes. They'll be back through with comments and ratings later in the reading period.

I dont' know if that's good news since these people may decide to retaliate against someone who gave honest feedback and less than 10 rating to a story. I have a feeling that because I did that (though didn't post a rating, just a comment on some because I didn't want to see their rating fall) I'm getting drive by low scores/rates. I think I may just take it as a lesson learned and keep my mouth shut. I honestly thought everyone would want honest feedback and not just a stroke to their ego. I've worked with several authors over the years...most of whom are published...and though I don't claim to know everything about writing I can tell what works and what doesn't.

Okay....I think I need more coffee. :-/

Have a great rest of the day everyone.

Terri

Terri: I hope you aren't seeing any kind of retaliation. If you are, one thing to keep in mind is that low scores are meaningless in this contest. If someone gives you a comment and a '1' you are actually better off than you are if someone gives you an anonymous '9' because the number of unique comments determines the winner in case of ties.

The people I was talking about who are systematically going through the entries in order to comment later for the most part do not have entries in the contest. They are readers only.

If I'm either out of contention or securely in the top 15 toward the end of contest I would like to take some time and just ask the people who haven't gotten much feedback if they would like a detailed critique, even if some of it is negative. I would love to see more hard-hitting critiques like the ones Chandra gives out. They sting a little, but if you read them after you cool down a little you'll see ways to improve your story and to improve as a writer.

I understand what a drive by is (I think) - someone who doesn't comment but gives you a low point to drop your score. What is a sock puppet?

People use the term sock puppet a couple of different ways. Some gatherites use it to refer to people (usually new to Gather) who haven't set themselves up with an icon yet, so they still have the generic Gather silhouette as an icon. Other people use it to refer to someone committing fraud in a Gather contest by setting up multiple identities and voting for themselves. Doing that is a very serious no-no that could get a person disqualified, kicked off of Gather, and theoretically even prosecuted for fraud if they won a big enough prize. Sock puppetry was alleged a couple of times in FC1, but as far as I can tell none of the five finalists did anything like that or were even suspected of it, so if it did happen it didn't get anyone into the finals.

Well, we are three days in and already the feel of this competition is soooo much more positive than FC1. I have found the critiques to be good and helpful without seeming mean-spirited. I think knowing each entry is a romance keeps those who look down on the genre from even bothering to read and comment. So I think the comments are more helpful than last time. Overall, I had a great experience in FC1 (despite all of the supposed shenanigans) and I am so thankful to Gather for breaking it down and letting character-driven romance novels compete against each other. I mean it was hard for witty dialogue to grab the attention like finding a dead body in the first four sentences!

Best of luck to everyone!