Discussion Topic #4: Angels--Do you believe they exist?

Sheryl, I would love for you to share the story of how you were saved by an angel. Would you write that up for us and share it with the group either as a comment or as an article?

I've never met an angel. I love the idea of angels and actually use that sometimes to feel better in uncertain times, or just for the pure comfort of it. I always thought God should just come on down and have a seat in the living room for a chat. Get things straight. I would like angels to do the same. I think if I really do have an angel my angel is somewhat of an imp.

I absolutely believe in Angels. As a child I remember seeing a beautiful, glowing angel with long flowing blonde hair appeared to be femaile outside my bedroom window. Though many years have passed I can remember all the details clearly unlike most things that I have forgotten. I remember praying to God on behalf of the angel because in my 4 yr old mind I felt she was going to "get in trouble because she let me see her".

I don't think I am a member of the group, but we are connected so I get your articles.

Angels are immortal spirits, and take many forms. I also believe they serve in all kinds of differing capacities from messengers to life carriers. There's no doubt in my mind that I have witnessed their work when natural explanations just would not suffice. My husband saw a luminous hand holding back flames in a fire that should have consumed him. God? Angel? Christ?

As a side note, I don't think they were always depicted as females, but I don't think our ancestors quite knew exactly how to depict what they were seeing....... creatures flying...... Pegasus, fairies, Pan, etc.

Today we call them myths, but the fact is they are still being seen flying today, there are reports, and then the skeptics come along and well..... they turn them into myths again, out of fear I suspect.

Lynn, yes, I too would like to meet an angel. I do believe that there are earthly "angels" that come into our lives and say or do something that is just what we need at that time.

Doris and Rosa, thank you for sharing your experience. How inspiring it is to know of the efforts these angels have made to help us. This would certainly lead us to believe in the concept of "guardian angels".

I too see angels as twofold earthly and heavenly,

I never t hought of angels as only female, there was satan, an angel,

gabrielle, the archangel michael, the cherubs, etc, they all have male identities.

i think modern soceity see angels as sweet an gentle and those portray them as female,

but satan and the archangel michael are very masculine,

I know people do not like to think of satan as an angel, but he is the ultimate fallen angel.

the angels of the old testament had losts of flaws and not seen as the christian "purfect"

we have tales of angels tempting christ and others, tales of angels raping people etc. the old testament angels were considered more as messengers,

the satan, of the old testament is not the christian version of a demon, but merely a messenger from god.

I've got one book on angels that tells about bad angels that was so scarey I quit reading it. And in the Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai there are horrid pictures of mean angels. I'd have never made it through childhood if I'd seen pictures of them then. Hard enough as an adult. Not good bedtime reading, that's for sure.

The Urantia Book goes into great detail about all of that. I have no good reason to doubt it.

I believe that all such is just a part of the spiritual realm and will present itself to us as we ask and/or expect. Some would settle for good Angels, some fewer deal with 'bad' angels, some with E.T.'s, some with Christ, some with their higher Self, some with God, and on and on ... we thus create our own reality IMnsHO.

Interesting perspectives that everyone has about angels. Thanks for sharing your views.

Jerry, what does IMnsHO mean? I've seen you use it before and my curiosity is aroused.

Carla, I am laughing. I have meant to ask Jerry just that question on many occasions and didn't. Hope he answers.

It is a secret mystical symbolization of transcendent proportions ... If I tell you I will have to ... ...

In My not so Humble Opinion ... :-) But thanks for asking.

Ha ! Jerry, I love it. Now what does the :- mean since you are answering? This is just too cool. I should have known just by the way you talk (in written language, of course). This sounds just like something my father would have said. I hope he's in spirit form somewhere.

Ha Ha! Jerry, you crack me up! I'm going to have to use that one myself.

Lynn, he is, IMnsHO :-) (smiley face). If you saw :- it means I made a mistake.

This didn't show up when I first tried to use it, sent you a message..

I don't mind believing in the possibility of good angels, but I mind a whole lot believing in the possibility of bad angels. It would seem to me that evil would eat itself up and that is what death would be for bad people/angels/whatever else is out there. It would shrivel up and wither up and there would be no goodness to breathe to maintain a spiritual life, or soul life. Good could override this. Good would not be destructive. Therefore good people and angels and whoever else exists after death would have the goodness of the soul still existing because goodness wouldn't wither up into nothingness. It would be healthy as it went through the transition of leaving a dying body. Simply stated, evil destroys itself while goodness sustains itself through all. Nobody has to agree with me, but I think I'll hold onto this one for myself. Somehow I like this idea. There is comfort in this. Evil does itself in reducing evil and goodness sustains itself so we never lose it.

Lynn, I like your take on it. As I understand it, the polar extreme of negativity would be the place of no-thing, a place where utter disintegration and loss of all energy would take place resulting in nothing.

On the other hand (direction) would be the creator God that contained ALL of creation consisting in that positive potential extreme (theoretically of course) would be the epitome of good as God.

Now that places us each somewhere near the middle or center of 'that' scale. There we make our choices moment by moment as to which direction we will lean towards, or in the case of some, flee from.

Now it would take many more words for me to complete my thoughts here to where they might make some sense to some folks ... but I will refrain from going there and just add that I believe that the entirety of creation, from God outward to the nothingness border IS a part of creation ... we and all in it have the full freedom to select our roles as to the positioning along that scale between the so-called good and evil.

This means that there are all kinds of spirits, like there are all kinds of people, some good and some not so good ... but by God's rules (the way of the universe)(actually God has no 'rules' as such, just an accounting procedure sometimes called Karma) ...

Anyway, by that 'procedure' we get what we most want, providing we play within the 'rules', such as the Golden Rule (that kind does exist). Thus spirits will assist us whether we are aware or not, and most are not. Some people have been known to sell their soul to the devil (so to speak) meaning they took a decidedly negative path by choice. That might well bring materialistic rewards but severe penalties in the longer eternal picture.

Wow, I just looked at the time, it is late and I am tired and that must be why I am running on so about this ... I will post anyway 'cause there might be something worthwhile in it ... I will then reconsider tomorrow.

Jerry, But energy can't really disintegrate, can it. I really am scared of the continuum on good and evil because that would allow evil to live and maybe flourish. And world circumstances sure suggest evil flourishes. So next step. Maybe when a body dies the energy is expelled and let loose into loose particles, free amid all energy and in some manner transforms, the evilness which is actually carried by energy, but is not itself energy is evaporated, and only energy remains.Energy is not evil itself. Energy can be used to hold or sustain evil. Evil can piggyback on it, it's like someone holding a grocery bag. You can hold it or put it down. So when the soul is leaving the body the evil is not a part of the energy in the soul that continues to exist but is instead something that is no longer carried. Of course that doesn't explain the bad angels cast into hell, but I'll set that aside for now. That's another issue. I'm not at all certain of hell being a permanent reality. I hope that we somehow work through what makes us bad and in time we transform to goodness as the final product.

Okay, Jerry, you have your no-thingness. So are you saying evil has a way of converting to nothingness? Sort of akin to my eating itself upness? Wording may be different but the result is the same?

If evil is constantly moving into a realm of nothingness then even though we seem to feel we are in a world that is adding one cruelty to another then we are also living through a time when evil is moving into a realm of nothingness just on a larger scale. What do you think about that?

Why can't the bad angels having seen the error of their ways let go of their evilness? I don't think God holds grudges. Prodigal son being a perfect example. The ultimate desire is to correct the error of our ways. Why, then, would we need to maintain evil angels? Or is that just a scare tactic?

Lynn, I fully agree with everything you are saying here. It seems that you are able to sort through things very well, I do not think that a lot of people do so, as most seem to go only so far and then accept all of the details on faith alone.

Of course I know none of this for absolute certainty (no one does) but as I see it, at least metaphorically, IF we pictured God (there are more ways to envision that than just this reference) as say out in front of us with arms outstretched and we wanted a relationship to S/He, we would think of that facing God with our arms outstretched meeting God's, our Left joining God's Right and our Right joining God's Left, resulting in the Equalization of the 'Extremity' energies into the fullness of our DIRECT Spiritual 'INternal' Connection face to face ... enlightenment and the fullness of Grace. IF this is a first connective experience, the energy flows may overwhelm us in ecstasy.

We cannot effectively stay in that powerful experience for long and still go on living, so we must eventually 'turn back around', looking outward again (as we did naturally before facing God for the initial meeting) and go on with life knowing we now hold a direct spiritual connection with God as we live our spiritual life desiring to help others come also to our spiritual relationship with the ONE God that created us all.


As I said before, there are many ways that this can be envisioned, but for a logical and rational 'male' type, we seem to require specific individual (logic and rationality) connections to relate to. That is why if I took this further for explanation to a male, I would designate the right and left energies as positive and negative (and this is where it gets 'complicated' because God's designations MAY be the opposite of ours, depending upon whether we were facing or looking away from God).

So to keep this more simple (the KISS principle)(keep it simple stupid)(Spirit used to tell me that), let's just say that on the direct emotional (non-logic) level, that it is all 'good'. Yet some relationships may well be more powerful and thus considered 'better' than others ... those are subjective and personal determinations.

So let us just say that we go through life evaluating our moment by moment decisions based upon a right brain left handed emotional/subjective expression (more related to Spirit), or a left brain right handed logical/rational/objective expression (more related to the 5 sensory physical).

Truth be known, we each and all are a 'potentially' balanced mix of these expressions (which would be the ideal expression most natural and God inspired for us), yet we each have our personal expression that leans predominately one way or the other with females leaning emotional and males leaning rational.

Now if I was not writing this, no one would be reading now ... so it still stands that no one is required to read any of it. :-)

But to get 'back' on thread, I will reintroduce the 'angel' connection. Say that we have now met God and feel that God is Spiritually withIN us as we face OUT into our universe, most especially into our 'world' of earth experience. We use our knowledge of relative rights and wrongs and just 'maybe' how they relate to Right and Left ... never-the-less, we seek to maintain BALANCE in our dealings with others, manifested physical beings in normal world terms ... or with our concepts of the spiritual beings such as angels (which can be either good or bad in relationship to circumstances experienced). Such 'angels' would be our subjective understanding and the effect they had on our physical experience would be our objective reality. The relationship in our mind between thought and experience would be both subjective and objective, a mix.


The major point that I would attempt to make, is that God, as the entire whole of Creation, IS a balanced MIX of both positive (what many call good) potentials AND negative (what many call bad) potentials !

Good sends OUT the 'good' and receives back the 'bad' ... effectively transforming (recycling) those 'energies' ... so yes Lynn, no energy is ever lost from the infinite universe (space) and/or from the infinite eternal (time), all is just recycled through our Creator God.


This can get much more complicated for those wishing to delve deeper in the 'logic' of it all ... but the bottom line is that when really known, it is all amazingly simple ... and extremely freeing ... as in the truth shall set you free !

IMnsHO of course. :-)

Lynn, your last question about good and evil angels came in while I was writing the comment above.

I would say that the spiritual 'beings' (call them angels if one wants to consider them as that) relate to God as do I and to us manifested physical beings KNOWING that God keeps track Karmically of ALL and then as individual (relative) spirits themselves, have their highest allegiance to God and know that God is 'watching' and that their primary 'job' (duty) is to 'teach' us at least what they know about it all.

Now whether we will pay attention to our INtuition (where the spiritual realm speaks to us) or not, is our choice, and maybe our 'problem'. If we know God as I do, we will make better choices in life. If we do not know God, we may be more inclined to think and do things that are not as productive as we may like. Yet in the long run, nothing is wasted and even our 'bad' experiences become a profitable learning tool or experience for us ... and maybe even 'others' by example.

God's infinite wisdom gives us all free reign to do as we wish, knowing that cause and effect are our very best teachers via experience and even IF we meet death early in experimenting, there is always a new chapter awaiting us (unlike the religious idea that there are only two choices, either heaven or hell).

So the spirits (those the closest to us), like us, may not yet be perfected (the closer to God, the more perfect) and they may make mistakes in relationship to us (and even have 'other' agendas) thus some may be 'better' (good) for us, while others may be evil (seemingly) to us. All is a learning experience and we are free to pick and choose.

When one 'religiously' chooses one such as Jesus (the Son) to relate to for their spiritual connection to God (the Father), they make That/Him 'their' spiritual relationship to God. Then they are compelled to operate within that creed or dogmatic context AS they understand it. Thus they have 'named' their spiritual connection. Thus they must relate to the parameters of 'that' which may well involve Satan (the Devil) and evil as their faith defines such.

Many other beliefs have 'other' names and descriptions for their spiritual connections, Each has a relationship with according to their perceptions of what they think they know about such.

For myself, I knew that my awakening experience was with God, or at least as close to that as I could get at the time, it seemed to fit all of the descriptors about unconditional love and full acceptance.

After much study about it all, I chose to relate my experience and relationship, not to Jesus HimSelf, but to the source that INformed Him during His time here. I then called that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, the Christ Spirit, and settled on the more esoteric and less restricting Spirit of mySelf (upper case S denoting Soul rather than lower case s of ego self) ... Thus believe that I have a direct relationship to the Spirit of God (by whatever name) as between my former (only, then) ego self AND now my higher Self, my own unique Soul. To me that is as close to God that one can get in life, it cuts out all of the spiritual middle beings and their special idiosyncrasies, making it more direct with much less to remember as regards 'individual' spiritual beings.

Thus this is the truth that really sets one free ... IMnsHO.

Carla, please advise IF I am taking up too much space or getting off track from where you wanted this to go.

Jerry, I'm going to have to read this a couple of times. This is a lot to absorb on one go round and I"ll do much better to read it again. But I'm getting it. I've said it before that I look for God in whatever way I can find Him and that doesn't keep me within the "christian" framework Still I have to read this some more. It helped a lot to read the excerpts from your book last night.
So what else have you got to say while you are in a mood to speak? I'm listening. One thing about those angels. Somewhere along the way it seemed to me that I was given the idea that when we "know" God we no longer want to do things that are not good. We only desire to move towards God in all that we do with our entire beings. I would think that would apply to us humans and to angels as well. And, if the energy is drawn into God and is reformulated into good energy then we should look forward to finally facing God knowing that with all His love He will free of us of our defects. We could look forward to that rather than fear hell, unless we strictly saw hell as a place for all eternity from which we could never leave. I read somewhere according to somebody that hell itself is limited in time. It still wasn't a place to look forward too and much suffering, but it was at least limited. Maybe like Catholicism's purgatory except a lot worse. There is one thing I am certain of. Since God knows all, even down to our last thought, when we truely make an error in judgment that christianity would scream out at, but it has been made in absolute sincerity based on our ability to think something through with our best efforts, God knows how we came to our faulty conclusion and knows that it was with the best of intent and thoughtfulness and will not turn from us forever for that. He knows what is in our hearts and knows while we might be wrong there was no malice in arriving to an erred conclusion and would not abandon us.

Ditto what Jerry said for me. I think we're still on topic, just expounded some.

But meanwhile, back to Lynn's questions. Evil in the world and it's association with 'angels' (remember that earlier I thought that angels may even be what others have called ETs etc) ... whatever, the ;good' ones are our more personal 'protectors' IF we so choose. If we wish to choose 'otherwise', the 'others' come into play.

I believe that there was a time on earth when there was far more evil at play here. here is still more than enough to go around, but I do not see it as a threat to one that has a the proper true spiirtual relationship to God. That is my personal opinion only of course, but it seems to have worked well for me so far.

When one sees God and Spirit as I do, basically a neutrality right in the very middle of all truth, then one can rely upon Spirit to be the mediator for our own Soul's best benefit. At that more centered position with Spirt INvolved, I can be friends with that so-called 'evil' side ... it is a relationship between equals but opposites as far as I am concerned. I no longer have any fear of it ... just as I have no concerns about being extra 'perfect' (world definition), because all I desire is to be the spiritually acceptable self/Self that I believe God intended for me at this point in time. I love it/It !

I saw the reference to ET's last night. Please explain alien angels.

Carla, Where are you? Have you flown the coop? Are you coming back?

and, was going to mention that 'fear' factor as regards evil. It has no real power over any of us unless we let it by the way we think in relationship to it.

The churches that have separated spirit into qualified beings such as Jesus, must then balance Him out with his potential 'opposite' which would be a name of evil ... because that thinking deals in duality of (+/-) where good/evil has no common spirit to mediate short of Father God.

In my own concept of Trinity where Spirit is right in the center or middle of EVERY truth as the (=) in (+=-) there is no real real separation to anything, only that which we as people deem so to believe our selected reality (that we create and co-create with others).

Churches mostly (NOT ALL) are dualistic and thus though they speak of Spirit and the Divine, the actually live as if it were in a separate more heavenly realm. Many would deny this, but compared to the transcendent that I believe that I know, that is the predominate 'fact' of the matter. That is dualism. Dualism is about division and separation, especially between opposites and often (usually) looks at things as black and white extremes desiring to eliminate the lesser rather than appreciate the natural diversity of it (as in man AND woman) so as to COOPERATE with compassion and join in a common cause where each contributes what they have that the other does not ... resulting in a creative synergy.

Fear is the opposite of Love because Love brings all together and fear separates into conflict with eventual destruction into that 'nothingness' we spoke of earlier. Life everlasting with love and death via fear. That was the message of Jesus ImnsHO.

Hi Lynn and Jerry! No, I haven't flown the coop. I was having special time with my husband, if you get my drift. ;-)

Anyway, I am looooving your dialogue! This is what I created the group for, to have discussions like this.

Jerry, I, too believe in God as indwelling spirit. And to me, dualism is what we created as humans. God is all good, everywhere present and all-powerful. I do not experience God as a large being, but as a creative power and a presence. I believe that God is individualized as each of us to the extent that we are aware of the presence and allow it to work through us.

As far as evil. I do not believe that anyone is inherently evil. I believe that all of God's creations are good. But we have been given the power of choice and through those choices we create what might be experienced as evil.

Jerry, it sounds like you have some experience with A Course in Miracles. And as far as the dualism in churches, have you ever attended a Unity church? I think you'll find that, for the most part, there is less duality thinking there.

Oh, about the ETs and aliens, they are one and the same to me. Some may well be much better than others in relationship to us here on earth.

It is my view that earth (our world)(and actually everything else) is a combination of creation AND evolution. (depending upon ones perspective of course).

I believe that the higher a being evolves towards God, the more spiritual and the higher their vibrational energy frequency ... I believe that those much more evolved than we are, can even consciously regulate their frequencies in order to appear visually to some beings in this world that are either evolved enough themselves to 'tune in' or the more divine beings can probably alter our own levels to tune us into them when things are 'right' and on track of divine intent.

I have read, and believe, that our world has a spiritual quarantine around it at this time that keeps other more evolved beings from messing around with us while we learn to come together in our natural evolution in that direction towards divinity and becoming gods (small g) ourselves ... at which point in time we will be granted the spiritual freedoms to further participate in the greater divine universe associating with our more spiritual relatives.

Now for those that refuse to follow the divine spiritual path here on earth, they will most likely remain in a lower more dense vibratory level of being. That will be 'their' reality then, while those of us that qualify otherwise will live in a separate (physically) higher energy reality ... they (we and them) may well occupy the very same physical space ... sort of like what is probably going on here right now between us and some of our departed (from life) relatives ... .?.

While the more evolved group may travel space as angels via frequency modulation, the less evolved will have to discover other methods of more scientific means of propulsion using the more physical material substances. In doing so, and leaving this planet, they will be far more likely to run across other beings of outer space more attuned to their own thinking. Where they deal in fear and evil with protective weapons systems ... God will see to it that they meet up with others of similar thought and equipment ... like begets like and as you sow so shall you reap. What goes around comes around.

You've just given me an idea for another topic, Jerry--Aliens or Extraterrestrials.

I'm not getting it. Are you saying ET's are angels that are alien to us because we don't know them or are you saying aliens like we would imagine fly around in space ships?

Carla, I'm glad you decided to come back to your own party.

Carla, I am relieved that we are doing OK here. I thought that we might be, because I am aware of your Unity connections and yes, I did for a very short while attend Unity services in Vancouver Washington some years ago now. I found that I was not cutout for 'joining' anything except what ever spirit led me to with that in mind. So far a am a loner in touch with spirit awaiting the next experience where-ever and when-ever it shows. I now gladly follow my bliss (as Joseph Campbell suggested so many years ago).

I did spend much time reading the Course in Miracles but by then I was pretty much set in my current school of thought so I set it aside. I still have both books.

Speaking of books, long ago I ran across an old copy (that I still have) of your founder Charles Fillmore's "The Metaphysical Bible Dictionary" (as I recall off hand) and I spent considerable time in that while discovering the difference between exoteric and esoteric meanings of things. He most definitely knew.

Later, j.

Joseph Campbell I know about. Maybe not an expert, but we've read some of his books and watched his show on public television. We learned about him in college. I thought he made a lot of sense. I haven't ever done the Course in Miracles but have known I wanted to. The problem is where to find it. Maybe I can get a copy of the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary at the used book store.

Yes, the Fillmores, Charles and Myrtle, saw that there was more to the Bible than what most people saw. The symbolism and metaphysical meanings make the Bible come alive and make sense--especially in those stories that do not make sense if you try to take them literally.

Lynn, you can actually get the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary on amazon.com.

Thanks. I hadn't thought about amazon.com. Now for me to go farther I need to read all of this over again and get it straight in my head. This is a lot of thinking in one day. I'm no rocket scientist. But it has been wonderful food for thought and some of the ideas about God's love and open arms has been very comforting. I have a very warm, comfortable sense of being embraced and it feels good.

Lynn, for clarification (if I can even), I see Angels as being purely Spirit. I see ET's as life forms from other systems or planets … they could be of other frequency makeup and able to alter that to appear to others such as us. Aliens fall into the very same classification to me as ET's.

I believe that in the very olden days from which many of the stories in the Old Testament Bible mentions, that earth may have been visited by all of these different classifications of being. Some Angels both good and fallen, ETs and/or Aliens that had the advanced abilities to appear as either Angels or gods to the less discriminating peoples of that time.

I believe that the stories that resulted from all of that may have confused gods for whatever and then even confused god(s) for God even. There is much said about all such and far more that is no longer available to us to read about.

But when one goes deep into other religions and spiritualities, various similarities begin to appear and make much more sense (at least to me). I have looked a bit into the mythological also, much of what has divided opinions amongst the 'authorities' as to their relationship to actuality. Much that is now considered simply myth by many does have a history of some truth in my opinion. I very much believe in the 'mythical' possibilities of Muu (Lemuria) and Atlantis, stories of many thousands of years ago … yet I also allow that these differing realities actually exist or even co-exist in either different frequencies and/or different times in this same space we call earth. There are old Sumerian stories that hold a lot of credibility to me.

I'm glad, Lynn. The God of the Old Testament was wrathful and vengeful. The God of the New Testament, as presented especially by Jesus, is a God of love. We have a tendency to want to create God in our image by giving him human characteristics and feelings. But that is limiting God.

By the way, A Course in Miracles may be available throug Amazon too. Also, most Unity bookstores sell them as well. But online, you should be able to find just about anything you want.

I am also a fan of Joseph Campbell. I loved his Power of Myth series with Bill Moyers. We have the tapes and the book. I highly recommend it for understanding more about the world's spiritual teachings.

Hey,. Jerry, please share some of this on the new thread topic. You have a lot of great stuff.

Absolutely. I find it interesting that only male angels are mentioned in the Bible yet all the angel images we see now are female. Is it to make them seem less intimidating? Think of the Archangel Michael, commander of the armies of the Lord. I like that idea much better. I want big, burly angels on my side.

Actually, there are angels who do incarnate - who take physical bodies. There are quite a few in body at this time on the planet.

A great many fallen angels are being cleared/healed and redeemed at this time, as well.

It's amazing to look back at certain events in my life that would certainly have been deadly, had there not been angelic intervention.
But I also love the moments of pure innocent angelic humor - the jokes that get played on me, and they could only be by angels.

Carla, I do believe in angels. I brought seven of them into my existence at the moment of my conception, I talk with them weekly and their purpose in my life, is to set me as straight as possible . . .and pick me up along the way when I fall. Thank you for a lovely article ! hugs


Did You Bring Guides also? I did