Illegal immigration is no doubt a very hot topic. Illegals hurt our economy, lower our property values and financially burden the legal law abiding cititzens.
I know that some of the illegals come to this country to better their lives and the lives of their families. Being an illegal hurts them also.
They run the risk of deportation at any time. They could lose everything they have. Now I don't feel a lot of sympathy, let's face it they shouldn't be here in the first place, but they work for the possessions they have the same as anyone else.
They are not protected by the Federal Labor Laws like legal workers are. We have several chicken farms in the county that I live in. I have heard stories of the women...all illegals...being raped while at work. Now legal or not these women don't deserve that. They are afraid of reporting the assaults to the police so they continue to happen. Would you report sexual harassment or worse...rape...if you were an illegal and afraid of deportation?
There is no workman's compensation coverage for illegals. This is probably one of the big reasons employers will hire illegals....look at all the money they save in NOT having to pay insurance and taxes to the federal and state governments.
I feel we should hold the illegals responsible for their actions but I also feel we should hold the employers TWICE as responsible. They have broken laws...same problem most people have with the illegals. Fine the employers and the jobs for the illegals will dry up.
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 61
It may seem like a fine point or hair splitting but words are very powerful. We
Your sentence cut off.
My experience with Illegal immigrants tends to indicate that, given a choice, most would rather stay back where they came from, but they cannot and survive.
That's tantamount to punishing the weakest partner in this scam.
Are you who protest their presence here willing to pay the increase in food costs that are bound to accompany your forceful removal of 12 million people, many of whom earn their wages doing stoop labor?
First of all ...they know it is illegal to cross the borders without the proper documentation but they do it anyway....are you prepared to "allow" citizens the same privledge....yes speeding is wrong and driving drunk but well maybe someone was too drunk to realize it...do you see what I mean?
We didnt pay their food costs to get here why should we pay their food costst to leave here?
While I do think that some of the people do cross the borders to better their lives there are the ones that cross to traffic drug, and other highly illegal activities. Are you willing to give the same sympathy to the drug smuggler and rapist just here to make some money?
I heavily support fines....big ones for the business hiring the illegals...the promise of a job brought them here so these same employers should pay the return ticket also.
Many employers want illegal labor because its' cheaper than legal labor and an illegal will tolerate a lot more abuse.
Politicians say that they want to secure the borders but they really want to find away to allow the labor force in Mexico to reach the farms and processing plants that rely on them for a cheap source of labor.
As for border security? That is the biggest joke. Have you seen the borders? I've seen both and they both are literally sieves.
As for the criminal element, the USA is the breeding ground for some of the most violent gangs in Mexico, Central and South America. Countries in this region complain about the deportees we send them who have literally grown up in the USA as practiced criminals that we then send back to their countries where they pollute the youth there creating gangs that help maintain drug trafficking.
Finally, there are no complaints about Brits who live here illegally. And we certainly don't mean them when we utter that obscene little word, "Illegal". I guess the fact that we like British accents and abhor Mexican accents (the butt of many jokes -- my name is Jose Jiminez - remember?).
This is an unseemly business and the weakest partner is highlighted and blamed rather than the corporate behemoths and the politicians they own.
One thing I read in a lot of posting here on Gather is people griping about paying welfare and medicare for illegals. Yet, I also read other people posting that this is not the case, that being illegal they have no access to such benefits and are basically surviving on "under the table" work that pays below state minimum wage laws, carry no benefits and amount to little better than slavery in many cases.
What is the real story here?
Are there a lot of people griping about stuff they know nothing about?
http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/illegalfacts.htm
There are some added things that might pertain to legal hispanics in this article but you will be able to derive the information that you're looking for here. And buy the way this is only L.A. and L.A. county.I wouldn't pay to much attention to what the pro-illegal journalist have to say due to conjecture on their part. They get paid to infer that all Americans are a racist bunch of Xenophobes for trying to protect the sovereignity of this nation.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20040907-9999-1n7smuggle.html
This is a very good letter to the editor. This woman made some good points.
For some reason, people have difficulty structuring their arguments when arguing against supporting the currently proposed immigration revisions. This lady made the argument pretty simple.
NOT printed in the Orange County Paper...................
Newspapers simply won't publish letters to the editor which they either deem politically incorrect (read below) or which does not agree with the philosophy they're pushing on the public. This woman wrote a great letter to the editor that should have been published; but, with your help it will get published via cyberspace!
New Immigrants
From: "David LaBonte"
My wife, Rosemary, wrote a wonderful letter to the editor of the OC Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I decided to "print" it myself by sending it out on the Internet.
Pass it along if you feel so inclined.
Dave LaBonte (signed)
Written in response to a series of letters to the editor in the Orange County Register:
Dear Editor:
So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry.
Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people like Mr. Lujan why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home.
They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.
Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France and Japan. None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents ha d come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.
And here we are in 2006 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900s deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice In raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.
And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty, it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking about dismantling the United States just yet.
(signed) Rosemary LaBonte
I grew up in the US. Why do you ask? Am I being disloyal by recognizing the hypocrisy of my fellow Americans? What does me being Muslim have to do with this?
As a matter of fact, the US did take by military force land that was once Mexican. I have not petitioned the Congress to return it to Mexico.
Bob - it is obvious you don't live in California. Any Saturday drive in Southern California you'll see people picking crops by hand. Dream on.
I try to communicate with you an I get facile mumblings in return. Good bye!
Now consedering the above facts, wouldn't allowing the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants amnesty or a path to citizenship be an insult to those immigrants who chose the legal path to come here? Of course it would and I've heard it first hand from legal immigrants.
Umar..Are you a relative of Rick Sanchez of CNN or Heraldo Rivera of FOXX? Both of those guys get their drawers in a wad anytime anti-illegal legislation is mentioned just as you do.
El wrongo hombre. The U.S. bought that land from the Mexican government.
Suck on that for now..more to come later.
Don't just "Remember the Alamo" but remember why there was a fort. I'm sorry that our discussion is, well, rife with nasty words.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo
As far as me living in California, I live in L.A. which at the moment is in California, unless you and your buddies can come up with enough money to buy it back.
Also you might want to tell your buddies that the days of coming over here to pick fruit are coming to a close, read this:
http://www.uark.edu/depts/ifse/grapeprog/articles/afr37-3vm.pdf
As far as the Alamo, their were 6,000 Mexican Soldiers trying to take it and 187 Americans with a few Mexican Nationals to defend it. It's past? It was built by Spain as a mission.
Thats why I asked you what school you went to, because the schools in Mexico teach their childred that America Stole the southwest from Mexico.
The Mexican War between the United States and Mexico began with a Mexican attack on American troops along the southern border of Texas on Apr. 25, 1846. Fighting ended when U.S. Gen. Winfield Scott occupied Mexico City on Sept. 14, 1847. A few months later a peace treaty was signed (Feb. 2, 1848) at Guadalupe Hidalgo. In addition to recognizing the U.S. annexation of Texas defeated Mexico ceded California and , New Mexico (including all the present-day states of the Southwest) to the United States. When General Scott walked downtown Mexico City, America owned Mexico lock stock and barrel. WE didn't have to steal it, we didn't want it. WE paid for the southwest and gave Mexico back to the Mexicans.
the US bought land from Mexico that was the homeland of indigenous people who had no idea that their land was owned by someone. I won't recount the genocidal acts waged against the indigenous populations of North America.
Lori: I realize that it is pointless to raise an argument like that. That is at the core of the problem in the Middle East. Everybody claims its theirs and they are willing to kill to prove it. I don't support that.
I think those were really Western Europeans.
"the US bought land from Mexico that was the homeland of indigenous people who had no idea that their land was owned by someone. I won't recount the genocidal acts waged against the indigenous populations of North America."
By the Treaties of Tordesillas in 1494 and Saragossa in 1529, Spain and Portugal partitioned the world between themselves.
The Indians that you talk about, were Mestizos,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo#Hispanic_America_and_Brazil
Read this:
http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/webpages/andean2k/conquest/mestizo.html
You don't have to dig very far that History of what has taken place has been captured with the truth and reality of what actually took place. Some of us are lucky enough to have ancestors that lived in those times to tell in their own words what they saw happen, and pass the tales down through time.
I would say, fine the employers who hire the illegals (cheap labor or not - where is the integrity within these employers' businesses?) The hardworking taxpayers are the ones who pay the price ultimately, and not only on this issue.
I'm with you all the way, Lori. Ten Stars!
Your example, and I'm being as kind as I can, is ludicrous and pointless.
No, the people I am talking about are probably better known to you as Apache, Lipan, Kickapoo, etc.
To think that all it takes is for European nations to divide the world to jusitfy genocide. Oh wait... It still works that way.
My bad.
Timothy: don't worry about what I think.
Illegal immigration arguments are sooooo yesterday!
Fine the employers that hire illegals. Fine the illegals for being here. Take all their money out of their pockets and homes. Use all of the aforementioned money and ship their asses HOME!
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=4495
Here's an exerpt from that clip.
"Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced the agency would clamp down on employers who knowingly and willfully violate the law. Left untouched, however, was Section 6103 of the IRS code - a privacy provision the government has long interpreted to mean that the Social Security Administration is forbidden from sharing tax information with other agencies."
Umar: don't worry because I don't.
You can read about these treaties that are listed below at this Url:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/ntreaty/wyamenu.htm
By reading the above Url it will tell you how the U.S. acquired the land,
Treaty with the Apache, July 1, 1852.
Treaty with the Comanche, Kiowa, and Apache; July 27, 1853
Treaty with the Apache, Cheyenne, and Arapaho; October 17, 1865
Treaty With the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache; October 21, 1867
1782
Chickasaw Peace Treaty Feeler
1786
Treaty With the Chickasaw
1805
Treaty With the Chickasaw
1816
Treaty With the Chickasaw
1818
"Secret" Journal on Negotiations of the Chickasaw Treaty of 1818
Treaty With the Chickasaw
1826
Refusal of the Chickasaws and Choctaws to Cede Their Lands in Mississippi : 1826
1830
Treaty With the Chickasaw : Unratified
1786
Treaty With the Chocktaw
1826
Refusal of the Chickasaws and Choctaws to Cede Their Lands in Mississippi
Treaty with the Comanche, Kiowa, and Apache; July 27, 1853
Treaty With the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache; October 21, 1867
Treaty With the Oneida, etc., 1794
Treaty With The Potawatami, 1828.
Treaty With the Potawatami, 1832.
Treaty With the Shawnee; 1786
Treaty With the Six Nations : 1784
Treaty With the Six Nations : 1789
Treaty With the Six Nations : 1794
Treaty With the Wyandot, etc.; 1785
Treaty With the Wyandot, etc.; 1789
Treaty of Greenville; 1789
Treaty with the Kicapoo:
http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Treaties/TreatyWithTheKickapoo1819.html
Treaty with Lipan Apache;San Saba Treaty between the Republic of Texas, the U.S. Government and the Lipan Apache Indians signed on October 28, 1851
http://www.indigenouspeople.net/lipanap.htm
You should read the above Url it tells how the Lipan Apache disliked the Mexicans and fought on the Americans side.
You seem to have the URL disease. You should look into that. Then, you might want to get a library card or access some of the background of those treaties and how they were actually concluded.
I'll give you a couple of good reads so you can get your mind wet.
Jack Weatherford's "Indian Givers" (1988). Its less than 300 pages. He has other titles that are just as good.
A more scholarly look at this problem, "1491" by Charles C. Mann sets the stage so you can see just what our ancestors did to this land and its peoples.
What I find really interesting about this and other related discussions on Gather is the assumption that I dislike America and Americans as I am a Black man who embraced a "foreign" religion. I also feel obligated to raise my voice against ignorance while not ignoring my own. My ancestors are African, Native American, and European. I am an American anyway you want to cut it.
If you read Kevin Mulroy's "Freedom on the Border" you will read how my people were invited back into this country after the end of slavery to help settle the Southwest. We fought for America against the Kickapoos, Lipans, Apaches, etc. The facts are while we were in Mexico we fought against them there, too. We were employed as soldiers by the Mexican government.
My great great grandfather won the Medal of Honor fighting for this country. His rank was Sergeant and his name John Ward. Look it up. He was Mexican by birth. They changed his name form Juan Guerrero to John Warrior then abbreviated it to Ward.
Bob, do you really think that the treaties were actually settlements of contentious relationships or acceptance of the military might of the US? How many of those treaties were kept? But then just as now, lies suffice and people like you are satisfied with the facade the government that committed acts of genocide from the East to the West.
TODAY, our country is occupied by 12-20 million invaders from various
parasite countries (mostly Mexico). The solution is to seize Mexico's oil fields on their
southern Gulf coast, and their gold and silver mines on the Mexico/USA border, as
repayment for the 100's of Billions Mexico has been stealing from us for 30 years now, in remittances and human services payouts (us paying their poverty bill).
Then, they can stop sending their people here, help to retrieve those those already sent, or get ready for the biggest ass kicking they couldn't even dream about.
Let's not forget, hundreds of thousands of US troops lost their lives defending this country from the Japanese in WWII who never occupied us with 12-20 million of their
nationals, imposed their language and culture upon us, or extracted 100's of Billions of
dollars out of our economy and state & local treasuries, and they got nuked just for trying.
Yeah, we can read the history all right, Umar, like 6,831 US Marines dying in 4 days
at Iwo Jima and 2 months later, Okinawa, even worse. This country has paid way too big a price to defend itself from foreign intrusion, to give it all up now to a bunch of
disrespectful, loudmouth gatecrashers. As for the Mexican War, the US PAID Mexico an
immense amount of money for what most American Easterners (including me) consider
to be mostly a big expanse of worthless desert, which was very sparsely inhabited in the 1840's. We can also read the history that this land that "the US took by military
force that was once Mexican", was Mexican only because the Mexicans stole it from the
Indians living there before them.
As for Brits, Umar, who says they're no objection to them living here, you racist dolt ?
I've had numerous fierce battles with them, at legalizetheirish.org, and their 100,000
or more illegal aliens are just as unwelcome as anybody else. You're just another pro-illegal alien traitor to this country, using race as a way to try to justify your treason.
It's not working.
I don't have a "library card" but I do access libraries around the world online. For just a few bucks you can too.
I'm not a dolt. Argument by insult is no argument at all. Have you read any articles about Western and Eastrn Europeans here illegally?
Why do you call me a racist? What have I said that is racist? History is what it is. I'm not blaming you or any other commenter for the growth pains this nation has experienced. I just don't think it necessary to recreate or obfuscate history.
We can continue to struggle to form a "more perfect union" and still recognize the imperfections of those who were dedicated to the same goal but made egregious errors and even committed genocide.
It gets hot in the kitchen but without the kitchen nobody eats. I just don't think America is some idyllic eden of social justice with a clean criminal record. That doesn't translate into hateful or racist speech.
Dolt means stupid person. Do you think I'm stupid because I disagree with you? That's really intelligent on your part.
Listen: I enjoy good hard exchanges but name calling seems so, well, middle schoolish. Since I've successfully completed middle school as well as degrees earned from Wayne State U and the University of Michigan as well as hold membership in Phi Beta Kappa - oh, did I mention that I was a Ford Foundation Fellow?
And, no, Robert, I do not support illegal immigration. I am not a traitor to this country and I certainly haven't committed treason by using my rights under my social contract to complain about what I think is wrong.
This is no way to be in a democracy Robert.
So Robert, with these last comments, I'll demure from further commenting.