Being Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, it is sometimes hard to see
how Tibetan Buddhists from the other side of the world can mean anything to us.
Shouldn't we dislike them/distrust them because they have a God-less religion?
No.
Because Tibetan Buddhism isn't so much a religion as a school of thought and teachings.
I'm Christian (and raised my 4 kids in the church), yet I've found that the Dalai Lama is a much better Christian than many Christians I know!
Why?
Because he lives the ideals of Jesus everyday of his life; and helps others do the same.
Every day he works on himself, as do the people who believe in him
- devoting their Entire life and efforts towards WWBD?
(Which, btw, is an awful lot like WWJD? ;-)
Everyday, he spends hours meditating; thinking: "How can I be more compassionate, caring, kind; and reduce hate,anger, and pain in our world?"
Then what does he do?
He goes and does it! :-)
(i.e. writing books to help us Western Civ folks live what we talk, does tireless work in workshops, teachings, and working with world leaders. He does this, even with his world at constant risk)
Can't we all learn from that example?
I think so.
He certainly isn't hurting anyone; except the agenda of the atheist Chinese Communist Regime....and That is really ok, eh? :-)
You have to remember, China 'allows' missionaries, but subverts their message and takes their money. It is a big joke to Chinese Govt Officials that American sends so much money to them. While Baptists and Catholics think they are gaining members by leaps and bounds, 'saving' billions of God-less Chinese; they are systematically being fleeced, as their sincere efforts and messages are twisted to suit the needs of a propaganda machine like one the world has never seen before.
Remember Mao's perpetual mantra: "Religion is Poison!"
That position hasn't changed, and like the economic beating America is taking at the hands of the Chinese Govt; the perception of spreading Christianity in China is a huge lie. The Buddhists know this, because they have tried for 5 decades to subvert their world. Without success, btw, because the sincere Buddhists are not affected by money, things, illusions of power, & ego - the tools that societies use to control peoples.
Can we learn from the example of the Dalai Lama? Gandi did, Martin Luther King did, Jimmy Carter did.....and look what they have done for our world! All studied the teachings of Buddha; and none found them inconsistent or at odds with their strong religious beliefs.
So, please join us in helping preserve the Tibetan World
by speaking out against Chinese Govt destruction of their world.
How can we do anything?
Simple.
Boycott items made in China, until China gives full control of Tibet back to the Tibetan Buddhists under the Dalai Lama.
Don't buy goods made in China
(an added bonus? You will be helping the $400 billion a year American trade deficit with China too; and won't be buying dangerous toys with lead paint.....which also helps American Manufacturers as well. A three way win, eh? :-)
We didn't buy lettuce, and look what Chavez accomplished for the migrant workers!
"I shall, through my life, be carrying out God's Divine message to mankind"
- Francis Younghusband said, as he stood on this very roof in Tibet:
http://www.gather.com/viewImage.jsp?fileId=3096224744308211&memberId=201849
A staunch Christian, he was sent to invade Tibet in 1903; and take the Dalai Lama prisoner. Instead, while here, atop the Jokhang Temple in Lhasa, Younghusband was transformed, and went on to found the World Congress of Faiths in 1936.
So today is a big day.....International Protest Day for the Kick off for the FREE TIBET initiative.
Please join our group today, Christians & Spiritual Folks to help FREE TIBET Group on Gather http://freetibet.gather.com and we will keep you informed over the next year about the progress.
Also, you are welcome to contribute articles/comments, and pics!
Welcome!! :-)
So why do the Tibetans Matter to us? They are us. Lhasa is the Buddhist's sacred city; like the Vatican is to the Catholics, like Varanasi is to the Hindus, Mecca is to Muslims, and Israel to the Jewish peoples.
How do you think we would handle someone building 30 brothels across the street from Saint Peter's? Naming their beer "Lhasa Beer," when the Tibetan Buddhists abhor alcohol abuse? Forcing native Tibetans to fornicate in the streets with Han Chinese émigrés, during the many years of takeover, to insure inter-breeding and the assimilation of the peoples?
The list of horrors goes on and on.
All we have to do to help, is stop buying Chinese products....because the one thing they will give into is money.
We have to make it unprofitable to pretend to 'own' Tibet.
Think about it, and make your comments and observations below :-)
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Comments: 86
Although I am not a Christian...the fact that you are and feel so strongly about this is wonderful.
I am boycotting and giving you a 10.
Best of luck....I hope this message reaches lots of people.
China imprisons more missionaries and God-followers in a day that all of American prisons combined.
We should care when any religion is persecuted under any circumstances. If we do not defend all religions, we will also lose ours one day.
We should care whether the practitioners of the religion are being persecuted by the godless as well as by people of other religions. China's communist regime persecutes people of all religions. Islamic nations persecute people of other religions.
I am a Christian, and I still care that all people be free to practice peaceful religion in peace.
I just watched the movie "Kundun" again tonight. I'd recommend that to all of you. Martin Scorsese is totally accurate on everything in that great film. I really liked "Seven Years in Tibet" too; but it was more Hollywood than art....though Brad Pitt did a great job in that role.
The Incredible Movie Kundun, a true story about the Dalai Lama and Tibet
The movie Seven Years in Tibet, an outside view of Tibet, the Dalai Lama, and the invasion
I got them at Hollywood video, but Netflix has them too! :-)
Personally, on the issue of Boycott, and issue near and dear to my heart is the Walmart controversy. I can only give two examples from personal experience and pass on a bit of hearesay, but I do know that the "rubbermaid" you buy at Walmart is not the "rubbermaid" you buy elsewhere. It is of less quality; I have personaly observed and compared this. I was told that it is made in a Walmart owned/run factory, not by rubbermaid.
"Malathion", the insecticide, is diluted from about 35% in the feed stores to 7%-17% in Walmart. I have seen and compared this with my own eyes as well.
And in case you haven't noticed, the food is packaged in odd weights and measurements making it difficult to compare to your regular grocery store.
It is for these reasons that I boycott walmart (with whom I once had a close working relationship). I do not know from whom they obtain their products and labor, but I suspect thay outsource like so many business to places like China.
:-)
BOYCOTT THE PURCHASE OF ALL CHINESE GOODS.....For the Tibetan's sake, and for the survivial of the American World. Spartan is right, China is not our friend.
This isn't just about Tibetans, its about Western Civilization being subverted......using their own greed to do it. Talk about the Opium wars? Try the "Opium" of a growing obession with material things - to the detriment of everything else.
This agressive initiative by China Govt must be stopped. And Patrick has a simple solution....for the welfare of the Tibetans and us....stop obsessing over money and things; STOP BUYING CHINESE GOODS! Simple! Et Volia! :-)
> > Your comments are refreshing to read in a world and societies in which religion has become a political and polarizing element, rather than unifying the human condition through acceptance of its diversity.
> >
> > My recently published novel, BYRON, addresses this very issue in an in-depth dramatic and contemporary context, intolerance related to gender, race, and religion through the narrative voice and experience of a young woman growing up in a southern mill town in Louisiana.
> >
> > If you might be interested, please visit my author website www.byronnovel.com.
> **************************
> Rob:
> I am totally interested.....please post an excerpt from your book as an "Article" to our group; and have links in there to where people can buy it (i.e. online bookseller?) here is the group
Hi, Patrick,
At your invitation, I'm joining the conversation as you recommended.
There is a key scene in my novel, BYRON, that addresses the group discussion. It is a court hearing in which the defense attorney is educating the prosecution. I can't include the scene verbatim, but the reference made is as follows and underscores that all religions came into existence to establish specific cultural standards of shared social values (including health and well-being), ethics, and some manner of spiritual recognition or connection depending on different cultures.
Not all religions accept or endorse the dogma of one religion being any greater, more true, more significant, or more powerful than another. Looking back through history, the premise of religions is based on a common mythology of an ascended being to whom is attached a myriad of myths and stories. Many are written down, but they are no different than the oral tradition of establishing the importance of these spirits or beings than early tribes using them to describe the unexplainable and unknown. In todays societies, cultures, and subcultures, they have the advantage of being communicated in written, verbal and other forms of media.
For example, the Bible is a chronology of the Jews in Biblical times, but it is filled with myths and stories to explain little understood phenomena just as in non-Christian religions, including tribal beliefs. It is only a book of facts if individuals or groups choose to perceive it in that manner. In other words, it is a personal view or experience shared by many, but not all, just as the Koran of the Islamic faith or the Tao Te Ching of the Chinese Taoist religion are other books that are perceived by other individuals and groups as being the definitive "Word. "
A second example is that evolutionary principles do not contradict the purpose of the Bible and of Christianity or any other of the eleven major religions and hundreds of denominations in the world today. In addition to a way of believing, as you pointed out, there are ethics regarding a way of living.
Most men and women attempt to achieve the highest possible good by adjusting their lives to some power in the universe. We usually call this power God and he/she/it comes to us with different names depending on the culture of origin and what part of the world and conditions in which you happen to live: Allah, Brahman, Buddha, Ahura Mazda, Jehova, or a universal force called Mana.
We know from anthropological and scientific studies by learned scholars that religions exist among tribal peoples of Africa, Asia, Australia, North and South America, and the Pacific Islands. Most of those tribal religions center on such practical needs as food and fertility, and the health of crops, animals, and people. Their images and idols represent symbols of spiritual and ethical principles that are close to those of major religions, including Christianity. These people are not pagans or followers of Satan. They are human beings and their beliefs are not inferior to established major religions. In place of sacred written literature, they have ceremonies and rituals that are passed along from one generation to the next, just as the major religions have ceremonies and rituals and symbols and icons. People identify these powers, regard them with awe, and seek good relations with them through prayer, worship, and personal behavior. There are also many people who do not have such a spiritual need and their lives are exemplary.
From my website, there is a direct link to the Amazon.com book site which features a search inside the book feature so that readers can sample the opening chapter which establishes the direction the story will take and the premise of concern. The home page of my website provides a discussion guide for readers, which is also contained in the book appendix.
I'm not certain how to go about posting an article on gather directly related to your personal site, so I'm just contributing to the discussion.
The author/book website does provide thoughtful, provocative, and challenging questions regarding our mutual topic of interest.
www.byronnovel.com
Thank you again for your invitation and your thoughts on this subject.
Rob Tucker
And, the biggest thing about Tibetan Buddhism? It flies in the face of all that was Mao; and it makes people less subject to their control. Aslo, many Chinese are 'converting' to Buddhism; so its freaking them out.
During various periods in China's history, Buddhism has been 'in charge.' The current "dynasty" of no dynasty, believes that its the fault of the Han peoples....who allowed Buddhism to spread during their dynasty.....hence the forced re-location of 6 million Han Chinese to Tibet (i.e. "you started this mess, you fix it" ;-) They think if they make them inter-breed that they will control them. Funny thing? The environment has had its way....
The other reason to control Tibet? Gold mines, strip mined minerals, forests (mostly cut down now) And? A place to send some of the Billions of Chinese people....the 6 million is just the beginning. With the trains?
Think of an ant hill swarming; its the human equivalent.
Mmmm...
I guess some of us had better start learning to read, write and speak---Chinese!
Or take some initiative and throw out all of the incumbants---local, regional and national---who love NAFTA and the emerging Northa American Union which is being designed as we speak to eliminate the United States of America and merge us into a neat, tidy package with Canada and Mexico. That way all the Chinese goods that come into the deep water ports in Mexico or through the Chinese-controlled Panama Canal will have a lovely and uncluttered entry into all homes through out the newly created land. Oh, joy!
Doesn't anybody out there realize that next to NOTHING is made in the USA anymore? How can the average person in the United States NOT buy things made in China?
I don't buy their goods. But that's because I still have all the good stuff we purchased when goods were actually made here. I refuse to buy that garbage made in China. I'd rather buy recycled clothing at the local thrift shop---which I do---if I have to have an item. I used to buy a half dozen pair of beautiful shoes all made in the US---every season! Now I don't buy any. I wear jeans and western boots which are made in Texas.
Wouldn't it be good if we could elect a fresh new slate of representatives who understand what being "partners" with China really means? How can we deceive ourselves by thinking we can be partners with such a country?
What is that saying? Ah, yes. "If you lie down with dogs, don't be surprised if you get up with fleas!"
Thanks Patrick. This is an excellent, eye-opening article. I just wish that everyone in the US were open-minded enough to pay attention to what you are saying.
I was most impressed by his recent interview on CNN, where his response to the question of whether he honestly believes he is the *soul" reincarnation of the original Bodhisattva to Tibet, he replied something like, "That nature was a potential in me which I decided early on to flesh out. It is a potential that exists within every human being...
Yes, the Dalia Lama actually lives more like a *Christ* than virtually all Christians that I know.
Well said, Bent. Not sure why that upsets some people.....deity envy? ;-o
But, what you say is why I trust his vision of the world & life more than anyone else.....particularly religious leaders like the current Pope ( a wannabe throwback to the Borghese Family if there ever was one....all about the money, power, etc ) I was raised Catholic, and can say that ;-) It would be really neat to have a credible Pope again.....
It is high time for this entire world to wake up to this Fact and Truth ... to quit denying it, to quit allowing your religious leaders to denounce it and to hold you in what amounts to a servile relationship to objective materialism based upon FUTURE spiritual freedom. Much of what major religions teach is erroneous and in many cases a lie.
A true relationship with God's Spirit is available here and now, freely given in unconditional love from withIN your own self ... seek first and foremost withIN for the highest truth.
And I will say here that Buddhism does that with all honesty and good affect ... the only difference between them and some others is that they do not posit a specific GOD above their Buddha ... and the problem with so many Christians is that they call their Christ GOD ... and that is what causes conflict between them and so many others, especially the Muslims now, who have the correct and proper relationship of Jesus as a 'brother' to all of the other 'great' prophets ... the problem then, only that they do not allow either, that each of us can become a qualified brother (and sister) to the others ... We CAN each and ALL become KNOWING of that SPIRITUAL BROTHER/SISTER-HOOD at any moment we so choose ... it would first help to open to the possibility in order to ALLOW it to happen ... I assure you all it can and has countless times.
This KNOWING (that the Dalai Lama has) would SAVE this world from the HELL that is going on in THIS here and now. That can all be changed into a literal heaven when enough of us are ready to allow ... it is God's desire that we do so ... IMnsHO.
Meanwhile ... yes, support TIBET and it's peoples ANY WAY POSITIVELY THAT YOU CAN ...
contaminated pet food, lead in jewelry, toys, etc.
Jerry your comment is so true. It gets so frustrating when the churches push their dogma and leave God behind. Teaching fear instead of love. Making it seem like the only way to be close to God is in church. I have a problem that Jesus is put in place of God, and we are not taught that God is within us all.
http://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/en/boycott_hub/alternative_shopping/
A year without "Made In China"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p09s01-coop.html
Not made in China (Us and Them mentality)
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2006/03/01/not_made_in_china/index.html
I think seeing an issue from many sides is important. More and more people are able to break their roles, stereo types and dogma in the 21st century. The times are chacha changing and the old is not fitting in as well as it use to. With the internet our world is open to more vantage points and people of all cultures.
How can we help the oppressed and not oppress the innocent by helping? Is it possible? Those in power will go to any lengths to keep their powers not caring if innocents are hurt or used as cannon fodder. Many say.......who has time for all these questions let's just do something. HURRY UP "just do it."
One observation... the media has the power of swaying the masses. One prime example is supporting a war that doesn't have anything to do with 911 or catching Bin Laden.
How do you get media to care about important issues and stick with it until there are changes? I see it happening already and they are recalls of lead paints in toys and other products. Catch them in the wrong otherwise it's and us and them situation that only backfires.
My idea is simpler, easier, but it also, may be far fetched.
What is it you ask?
I believe we need to all stop and find that we all
are inspirations, heroes to our own soul, we all can be our best friend. The approval of others does not substantiate our existence. Each one of us can be in control of our thoughts and feelings, and we can trust the signals we receive from our hearts and mind. No external force can impose positivity or negativity upon any one of us without us letting it. In the end it comes down to each individual discovering themselves and how amazing we can be in our world. That takes quiet time, turning off the "Made in China" TV set or computer for short spells in our busy life and going within our own awesome world. We are the difference, We are the minority that changes important issues like these! If not me, if not you than who?
Media is a powerful tool for making changes but if we discover how powerful each one of us are with a vision, focus and inner desire to do good we haven't seen nothing yet, baby! Increase the Peace.
It can....and will...happen :-)
and in double checking the title of the article it seemed to me that there was some aspect or other of 'religion' involved ...
and what will happen with time ? ... I do not know because there are various possible scenarios. It depends a lot on us and the $ relationship with China ... with India, Russia, and of course the Muslims of the world that we have been pissing off right and left (probably not the left in the political aspect).
I have no big investment in these words, just felt like saying something :-)
While you are passionate and quite bold in your views (especially at 4 a.m. in the morning ;-), people needn't dismiss your views due to their strength (and their personal lack of conviction....on anything. Itself, a clear sign of the effects of the move from "The American Dream" to "The American Delusion". My term for the subtle twisting of values in our country, via making people complicit in the actions you speak of; by 'buying' us through things, bloated ego petting, and a perception of 'power')
The short answer: We need a return to the values that made America, America.
What are those? True freedom of religion, speech, and real democracy...not this rigged game of special interest groups.
I think what Bruce is referring to above, in his accurate 'expansionism' observations, is the effort to re-institute societies of aristocracy. Of 'haves,' and 'have-nots'. With the carrot to the wannabes that they will be in the 'haves,' and live at the cost of so many. Yes, a weird and sick perspective that few of us can conceive of.....much less desire. But our lack of ability to perceive a threat doesn't mean it isn't there, eh? ;-)
Here is the ironic joke of the Chinese Govt: all the while they try to topple "Corrupt Monarchies" like Nepal's ruling Hindu family; they will only replace it with a system that assures their iron-fisted insider 'princes' rule. Maybe their Emperor is gone, but their desire to be Emperor is not.
That 'urge' is many many thousands of years old.....almost 3 times longer than it has been since Christ walked this earth! What is Western Civ compared to that 'deep game?'
So, lets wake folks up.....and; say it in multiple ways, until people see the real threat to life on this planet.
Can you imagine zero compassion or no thought of Christian Charity in charge of the the marketing/business juggernaut that the United States has created? What damage that will cause...is causing?
Nuclear weapons are nothing, compared to the loss of hope in life-affirming actions that represents.
Something like strip mining? Who cares?.....dig, use, make, build,.....destroy, convert, use...take, use, hoard....and leave those life forms too 'weak' to fight back to die.
This is where the world is headed under Chinese Govt control. And Steven Spielberg is putting on their party next year at the Olympics? Cummon, folks wake up.
However radical Jerry's words(and many other people's words) may seem, they are a sincere attempt towards raising people's awareness before its too late to reverse the tidal wave thats coming.
Wow, thanks for keeping the thoughts flowing....I hope many others will add their 2 cents too. If only to say: "Thanks guys, for making me aware of whats really ailing this world. Now I know what I can do to get myself, and my family, out of the mess. Just stop consuming things I don't need! How simple."
Yep, its that simple. Return the 'business' of life to life......take the economics out of our lives, and see what happens. Business, economic growth, and an 'expanding economy' is not nirvana. Blind adherence to that 'ideal', is the cause the death of real life. Business and making money isn't bad, per se.....but total devotion, and slavery, to it is unbalanced. China can't control anything if we don't take the drugs of materialism they want to supply.
They have merely flipped the 'opium wars' back on us.
Clever, in a twisted way, isn't it?
Chinese goods? Aren't they the ones being recalled the most lately?
I firmly believe that so many of the leaders of the peoples of this world would prefer to have their people just subjects, beholden to only them and their authority ... I believe many religions have been corrupted into keeping their own followers in subservient roles based more in materialistic (objective) outlooks, even while they speak of and pretend (often in ignorance) to have an INternal Spiritual basis that no longer is, in effect. In the US, the government gives religions that meet certain criteria a tax exemption that promotes those religions to build huge followings, gigantic structures, and even countless businesses on the side, said to be also based upon the religion and thus also tax free ... growth ad infinitum ... very 'business like' ...
The leadership of these organizations create huge followings that they in effect very much control ... thus the 'religious right' being harnessed to influence national politics as has happened. The greater in size the religious institutions, the greater the percs of their leaders in both ego gratification and wealth, the more they want to stay on the side of the national political powers that will help them stay in power also ... though it is claimed otherwise, it does often amount to NON-separation of church and state. It becomes like a mutual "I'll scratch your back IF you scratch mine" thing where "IF you stay out of MY business, I will stay out of yours."
So these more objective and materialistic 'religions' are both tolerated AND encouraged by the secular world leaderships ... especially so, in much of the Muslim world, where the leaders are members of the very same religion, where the intention is to keep the masses following the views of the leaders ... also really objective and materialistic, no matter what is claimed otherwise.
All of these concepts and ideas are either tolerated and/or promoted by the leaders involved because it suits their personal ambitions of power and control, often ego enhancement being very much involved, but mainly the control.
Which brings us back to (let's say, the Chinese)(really applicable to other nations also, as well as the materialistic/objective religions mentioned) the issue of a religious or spiritual viewpoint that is NOT so subjected to objective/materialistic/hierarchical power structures, such as the Buddhists and other usually much smaller sects of other beliefs that are so spiritual as to reject the secular and religious 'authorities' already so entrenched in power ... these, considered 'johnny come lately' groups (although their essential spiritual beliefs are timeless) are knocked down as fast as possible, called a threat to order, called heretical, of the 'occult', and often called just plain 'evil' ...
Any threats to the well established institutions, secular AND religious, are deemed to be unhealthy to the general population and are marked for destruction in any way possible ...
It has always been this way in the world ... even Jesus was a threat to old line established views of the Pharisees of his own faith who were instrumental in his being persecuted to death.
The PROBLEM (as orthodoxy sees it), is that the truest spiritual beliefs are natural to mankind, they are based upon unconditional love, the golden rule, and individual self responsibility towards cooperation between all for the greater good of the whole of creation, where if there are 'leaders', they share that vision also ...
That is a THREAT to the established leadership that is fearful of loss to their positions OVER others, where they could lose their power, authority and wealth .. THAT is why some, often all, spiritual, especially the more mystical and esoteric beliefs are fought down ... because they need NOT the OUTside authority or leadership to be ... they follow the INner path of Spiritual Truth that comes direct from God via their (and everyone's) INtuition ... while that INtuition also assures the person that we are all connected brothers and sisters under the very same God, negating any NEED for divisive concepts of separate nations and institutions that control people in the guise of helping them.
IMnsHO. :-)
Before I became spiritually aware I had nothing else to base my thinking upon except that very same 'normal' concept that everyone else uses ... mostly that which is put out by our media.
I realize that a nonspiritual person will stick with their objective 5 senses, as you seem to do, that is normal, as is our world state of affairs. I have never really been very satisfied with that normal way of worldly thought and action ... all it did was depress me in the end ... and it was the curing of THAT honest depression where the cause of it was the real pathology IMnsHO, is what led to me to God and the Spiritual Truths available from our own subjective 6th sense INtuition ... if and when we learn to trust it.
It has been my experience that my INtuition is best at sorting out ALL of the other facts from both sides of any issue so that I can come up with what I believe is the very best relative truth for me ... it is only that which I attempt to pass on to others ...
As beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... maybe pathology is also, because I know for sure that a lot of people from the far right that trust 'their' media and leaders, both religious and secular to be telling them the truth ... making all to their left in the grips of pathology.
To each their own ... and I do know the history of this country as well as most, I just look for a better world, regardless of country, for the future of the ENTIRE human race.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain. Peace, j.
Who do you think is more free, has more facts, has the right to say no, to question, to refuse ... the people in the West, or the people stomped on and repressed in China, or Russia, or the Middle East.
Who do you think developed the idea of personal freedom as far as it has been taken to this day. Whose free inquiry led to the creation of states and technology for freeing people from slavery and tyranny?
Your words always "sound" nice, but what would you really do when action is demanded and push comes to shove? All the ideals fade away when someone is negligent enough to lose sight of the physical realities of life.
To me, pragmatism is where it's at. It is mere pragmatism and realism to care about the freedom of other people, and to make sure when possible that large groups of people cannot be enslaved to do the bidding of groups who seek to expand and control even more people.
All of that suggests that there are cosmic seasons that create cycles in time on the order of 1,000's of years, things that orthodoxy pretty much rejects … we are well within one of those cycles (actually more than one at the same time) that portend great changes for us … normalcy and orthodoxy are soon going to be completely upset … literally as well as figuratively. People need to open to the possibility of the transcendent in order to escape from the 'box' of orthodoxy they have allowed themselves to be trapped in, that being the goal of peoples BEHIND and in the shadows of our more visible leaders that are really but puppets … I only fault 'normal' people for being so trusting as to be suckered into supporting the nefariousness that is going on to the detriment of all of us, except those at the top where materialistic greed, power and control are their primary motivator … possibly with some dark occult spiritual considerations also … having long ago sold their souls to the devil (so to speak) … things are just not like most have been led to believe … but to each their own …
I agree with you completely from your perspective ... our nation was began with spiritual help though, with the intention of helping the salvation of mankind. We were to be the gathering place and melting pot of the 12 tribes of Israel dispersed over the whole world at the destruction of Babylon. That was to have hopefully taken place in peace with appreciation for our natural diversity by now or by the time these cosmic cycles occur.
But the materialistic ideas have corrupted many religions also, to where people too much look at everything in temporal and pragmatic terms ... avoiding death at all cost, and seeking their survival in this world at the expense of others.
It is materialistic concepts that create the divisions of all kinds that cause the conflicts of wars and destruction ... even of many countless human lives. The secular and the religious in these situations are just two differing aspects of the materialistic concept that does not trust anything more meaningful.
True spirituality assures one of the transcendence, of the fact that they are spiritually eternal to where death is never again feared ... even welcomed in many cases. There are other worlds and other realms for each of us ... but we do make our own realities to a certain degree ... and those that trust not spirit will have a different future for a while until they do learn to trust.
To become spiritual does not require a person to give up anything that they want to retain in world life ... but there are reasons that will become then apparent that cause you to WANT to change ... the main factor is you want most to help others see your truth ... that is all what I am about here.
Your branch of spirituality is something akin to in the long run nothing matters anyway ... it makes people without much perception or confidence feel better, which is why it has been created and used to the greatest effect in the Eastern countries, India and China ... where life has sucked for a long long time.
Western materialism has also embraced and understood a lot of these Eastern ideas and breathed new ideas into them, based on physics and science, but for the individual seeking to live their life these religions do not offer much, well most religions do not offer much, other than just take it with a smile, everything will ultimately be all right.
Wanting others to see your truth can have two reasons .... one, self-validation ... you want some company ... two, united we stand, divided we fall. Be careful that you do not seek to unite people behind your own weakness so that united they fall.
I don't shop much. When I do, I always look at the labels for country of origin. But it can be difficult: I read a few days ago that most lipsticks - especially the high-end brands - contain lead, and that most of these products originate in China. One more reason to avoid wearing makeup!
Wonderful article, Patrick.
I live with a scientist/pragmatist.....I get it. I did it. My kids do it. But, its also an age/experience thing. Jerry speaks from a lifetime of experiences, and therefore can't really transmit everything that he 'is' in a few thousand words. Does he rant? No more than many of us....yourself included ;-) But from what I can tell, you guys are both on position, and not moving off.....a stand off, eh?
What I can say is that both of you bring a lot to the party, and voice much of what others think but don't say.
Soooo, my suggestion? Don't write jerry off, just because he is sometimes a bit radical. The very forces he describes, attempt to discredit the most outspoken among us....in order to maintian status quo. You can see that in schools even, yes? But definitely in organizations.....where the 'boss' doesn't want to be second-guessed, and when he is (and having a weak ego) he first does what he can to discredit the 'uppity servant.
We all have to be careful to not be misled into doing that dirty work for the behind-the-scenes manipulators. I'm not being all conspiracy theory on you, but its just a fact of human interaction......manipulative people use uninformed and young and excitable folks to do their work for them. With them all full of P & V, and good intentions, its an easy trick....for awhile. Until the catch on. But by then, the damage is done....and folks have moved on.
Soooo, what does that all mean? You are both right......so leave some space for each other, ok?
:-)
"Keys to the Kingdom"......things haven't changed since that was written.....nor will they. No matter how much nice we shower upon ruthless people; some just don't want to change. Its good to learn to differentiate those folks from the majority, who would benefit from your good views.
Keys of the Kingdom, a fair Christian perspective of China
In this world there are many kinds of wants and desires and those that get what they truly want often consider it a 'better' or 'superior' situation compared to what to them is truly lessor.
So from where you speak, is from the ego, thus all you are expected to understand is the ego view ... and then no matter what one such as I say, or even do, you will only see the ego view of it ... you just cannot understand that which you have not experienced and know nothing about, other than maybe what another ego view tells you.
You ask me questions and I answer them as truthfully as I can to the very best of my ability ... just because you do not understand or do not agree, does not make me wrong, except maybe to you and people that think like you do ... I put in the time and effort as a spiritual mission to attempt to help those that may be open to it ... you yourself may someday reconsider, maybe I have planted a seed in your mind that has yet to sprout ... you would do well to hope so. :-) ... yet it is normal for the ego to deny :-( ... and to each their own ... so no problem.
Well said, Jerry. I just read a bunch of stuff, and Bruce has been busy posting all over. He's on the juice.....but seems sincere, if ranting about Cate B's latest movie, etc...(that is a good natured tease, Bruce ;-)
C U!
:-)
I don't want to write anyone's view off. I just want to
try to express my own, and then listen to what others
say and point out the contradictions in my own
experience that I see.
The problem with Islamic Totalitarianism is that when
in force the people living in such a system are given
no autonomy, and told that they are being forced to
live God's will. That is why this system is so inhuman.
Thinking that spirituality will triumph over this in any
kind of time frame of our individual lives is folly as
far as I can see.
North Korea just sold nuclear plant secrets to Syria,
and Israel just bombed it. Why was Syria building a
secret nuclear plant guys?
Do you think there is not a threat from this system?
What do you think?
I have not watched the news much of late so was not aware that Israel had bombed a nuclear facility (again).
As for the Muslim religion leading to serious problems for us as a nation, I do not see MOST Muslim societies rising up in any way UNLESS our nation begins what comes to be a world wide war, in which case sides will be taken against us in many cases where it would never happen otherwise. Like attracts like (universal law) and the more we war with Muslims the more they will war back ... and it has already been well proven that those on that side the most serious about it all from their perception, have no qualms of giving their lives for the cause ... martyrdom being a great honor in those exoteric perversions of what SHOULD be about esoteric Love.
If we were truly the great country that we profess to be and a bit closer to what we MAYBE (giving the benefit of the doubt) USED to be ... then people all around the world would love us and honor us ... we would have no REAL problems ... but that is not the case, and there are serious reasons, available to those that would seek to find out rather than be apologists for what is going on in this current administration now.
That's what I think ...
> As for the Muslim religion leading to serious problems for
> us as a nation, I do not see MOST Muslim societies rising
> up in any way UNLESS our nation begins what comes to
> be a world wide war
I believe you are erroneously seeing the West as the
aggressor for several reasons. First, it is all we hear over
here almost. Second, the West has according to how we
measure ourselves made mistakes. Third, there is a need
to think we are strong and powerful enough so that we
cannot be threatened by anything, that the struggle for
survival in this world is over ... it is not. Finally, I think we
want to be able to blame ourselves so as to simplify the
answer ... if the problem is in us, it is easier to fix, and
also easier to ignore.
Of course, as we stand up to this threat, and when we
inevitably kill bystanders and use violence there is the
inevitable backlash or nationalism. That is one source of
our enemies, but it is minor compared to the other.
The other source of enemies are the unwitting victims of
a totalitarian reality that has been honed for over 1000
years, and is being updated and rearmed with modern
money and technology.
Russia could only dream of being able to control people
to the extent the Islamic fundamentalist can. Remember
in Afghanistan, no pictures, no music, no tv, follow the rules
and be spied on all day with a very defined and strong
male dominated hierarchy that does not flinch at torture,
mental or physical and death.
This is the core of where soldiers who are willing to blow
themselves up come from. Palestinians not living in
Israel are subject to this repressive culture and are
directed to blame Israel and the West, and fight to
destroy us.
If you look at what is broadcast on their TV 7x24 you
can see they are told that the West is the satan of the
world and to kill Westerners is God's plan for them.
They are not permitted to here anything else, and if
they ask too many of the wrong questions they are
physically punished. If these people are caught
talking to Western visitors they are collaborators and
have been publically tortured, dragged down the streets
behind cars and killed as an example.
While the religous and business elites of these countries
prosper and design new ways to regiment their people
and use them, they have designed processes for taking
over mosques in other countries and exporting this
hierarchy based on 1000 years of watching how people
can be perverted by brainwashing.
If you think this process is going go away by itself or will
stop if we stop confronting it you are sadly mistaken.
As an example, Afghanistan, a very backwards 3rd world nation that had been ravaged by the USSR for years after which parts of it were taken over by the Taliban, probably with the encouragement of the people who were starved for peace with law and order ... whatever the situation there ... it surely would not translate to being a danger to Americans ... hell, you alone would probably fight them all off.
So lets get real here, just what kind of danger do you think a bunch of Taliban types pose for the average American citizen ?
Or, on the 'other' tack, how many of them do we have to kill off to be safer ?
I think the religious rightwing Evangelicals alone would be more than willing to wipe them all out, even over the dead bodies of the Left, that judging by the way they talk on Gather, they would wipe out first so they could freely, without opposition at home, go after the rest of the peace loving peoples of the world that might stand in their way to get the 'ragheads' as 'they' would call them ... no more of an exaggeration than what you have written Bruce ...
> they MIGHT come here someday' ... ?
No Jerry, that is what you have transform the argument into
so you will not have anything demanded of you because you
are a lazy selfish loser like all people who fall back on religion
and spirituality so they can fog the real discussion with clap-
trap about God, and morals, and just play with words and
pretend they do not understand or can ignore reality because
they are deep down scared to death and are just hoping there
is not danger or that other people will fight their battles
for them.
Peace, j.
Then you have to completely make this up as something I have said which I never did:
> for you the priority is objective materialism and force of
> arms it seems ... to hell with love your neighbor, kill him
> because he just MIGHT be an enemy
Of course here what you are calling my neighbor, our neighbor are the people who hijacked planes and blew them up along with innocent people at work. Maybe those are your neighbors, but that is not very neigborly. Neither does the world need neighbors like in Iraq where the people killing a few of our soldiers everyday and murdering hundreds of their own people day after day seem to have your persmission to run that country.
Jerry ... put on your robe, go back to your monastery and pray ... and a vow of silence on your part might be better for the world's karma than anything you have to say.
When I say that we are coming from two different places on all of this, that is also true, although from 'your' place it is an ego alone perception which always denies the spiritual aspect of life. That is what will be transcended with time (and desire).
Bruce, I didn't even have to read all the comments to get the gist of the disagreement......I think the 'argument' that has occurred here between you and Jerry just proves the point further that we have a lot to learn from the Dalai Lama.....and the Tibetan/Mongolian Buddhists.
Jerry is far from a bad or lazy person......please try to reduce character assination comments to a minimum. I think Jerry just has lived a lot longer than you, and therefore has a waaay different perspective than you.
I think about brussel sprouts and mushrooms...... i hated them as a kid, and swore I'd never eat them.....but i love them now, as a health/taste conscious adult. Things, the Dalai Lama says, stay the same.....there's nothing new in our world; for many thousands of years (in terms of people's interactions)...but, our perspective is constantly changing and evolving.....
I tried to stop buying Chinese produce - the first trouble was, nearly everything i went to buy was made in China with no alternate options. They alone export lotus root. They alone offer tinned mushroom. They alone offer glass kitchen containers. etc...
Next, I felt guilty - it harms the innocent Chinese, as well as their government...
I have joined the Candle 4 Tibet campaign - this is something that is harmless, yet still shows my support. A second candle burning is set for tomorrow night.
(Here is a link to a side group for a community of people who are continuing with our support for Tibet's freedom. http://candle4tibet.ning.com/)
There is also a 12 hour fasting and prayer set for late August that was requested by the Tibetan PM in exile that I will be doing next weekend.
You can read about that here ...
www.tibet.net
I have friends and family within many different faiths - and I think it important that people are free to practice whichever faith they personally wish to follow.
I just wanted to stop by since I am finally going through what is now listed as under 5,200 pieces of gather new mail that is sitting in my inbox on here.
With that mentioned I just came across either a mailing from you yourself, or someone else brought this piece to my attention. You or they felt that your creation should be shared with the gather community, which I am very glad that it was passed on to me to view. So I wanted to say Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to publish it here on gather for us to all view. :o)
As well before I leave you I wanted to wish you a Happy New Year... in 2009 :o)