I keep saying that it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the war in Iraq was wrong; it only took common sense. They were clues, and they were indicators as clear as the noses on people's faces. Maybe people don't pay attention to their noses, prefer to look past them....
For those who are students of the Bible, it is apparent that the real target of rage for Al Qaeda and the fringe which called themselves Muslims, who have waged a war -- supposedly against Western civilization -- is Israel. 
That's right, that tiny little country over in the Middle East, Israel.
Maybe they were there and I just missed them, but I saw no articles on a very significant event that occurred 40 years ago in June. Forty years ago a small army of men defeated and recaptured a glorious city. This army was outnumbered 400 to 1. That statistic bears repeating:
The army was outnumbered 400 to 1!
The event is now historically known as the Six Day War and the little prevailing army re-claimed their prize -- Jerusalem. With all that has been written here on Gather, I saw no articles about it, probably my oversight.
I've sat and watched as all of the uproar, the controversy, the fighting, the dissension, the money, the non-speeches, the singing and tap dancing, the half-truths, the lies, the diversions, the crises, the...the...the...the...you name it...has gone on, with respect to EVERYTHING surrounding the Bush Administration, and even the last two Presidents' Administrations and their policies; it plays right into the hands of...Biblical prophecy. It's absolutely mind boggling.
The subject is too colossal, and too Herculean to try to tackle in one article. Besides, I came from the school of thought that people don't appreciate what you give them, but only what they work hard for, so on that note, to whet the appetite a bit, I'd like to share with you a little teeny piece of prophecy that's been sitting in that old antiquated out-of-date book, the Bible, for...well, forever almost. I know, some of you are ready to ridicule right now, but just do the calculations for yourself, and see if Isaac Newton, and Jeffrey are correct. You like this one, and I'll pass one from the Master of calculations, Newton.
Oh, one more thing, if you find the calculations do work, stop and think that maybe, just maybe, all that you are seeing right now does have an ulterior motive, AND maybe that ulterior motive has to do with an extreme hatred of Israel, and a plot to wipe the Jewish people off the face of the earth. The "force" behind Hitler certainly tried, and it would appear that "force" has not given up just yet, at least according to the Bible. No, I was not born Jewish, but I don't have to be to see the nose which is right there on my face:
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“Israel’s Third and Worldwide Captivity”
(taken from the book, “Armageddon, Appointment With Destiny”, by Grant R. Jeffrey)
(The following is a segment taken from Chapter 3, “Ezekiel’s Vision of the Rebirth of Israel in 1948“):
“Throughout the Old Testament there are prophecies of a final return of the exiles to the Promised Land in the “last days.” Consider the precision with which God revealed the duration of the earlier dispersions and captivities. It seemed probable to me, as a student of biblical history and prophecy, that hidden somewhere in Scripture, there would be a clue revealing the time when the Jews would return from their final worldwide captivity, to their Promised Land and once again establish a nation.
The prophet Ezekiel, like Daniel, was carried off to Babylon as a captive. He prophesied there for about twenty years. Also, like Daniel, he was aware from the prophecies of Jeremiah; that the captivity in Babylon would last seventy years. All three prophets were contemporaries of each other. Then the Lord appeared to Ezekiel in a vision and gave him the prophecy we quoted at the beginning of this chapter:
“This shall be a sign to the house of Israel. Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou lie upon it thou shall bear their iniquity. For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days; so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.”
Ezekiel 4:3-6
In this prophecy we are given a sign and a clear interpretation that each day represents one biblical year. Ezekiel was told that Israel would be punished for 390 years and for 40 years. As prophesied, at the end of the seventy years of captivity in Babylon, in the spring of 536 B.C., in the month Nisan, under the decree of the Persian king Cyrus, a small remnant of the house of Judah returned to Jerusalem.
The vast majority were content to remain in the pagan Persian Empire as colonists. Out of a total decreed punishment of 430 years for Israel’s and Judah’s sin (390 years plus 40 years = 430 years): once you deduct the 70 years of the Babylonian captivity which ended in 536 B.C.; there is a total of 360 years of further punishment beyond 536 B.C., the end of the Babylonian Captivity.
However, a close scrutiny of Israel’s history fails to yield any significant period that corresponds to this period of 360 years of additional punishment, either at the end of the 430 years or at the end of the 360 years. It should be noted that, historically, Israel did not repent of its sin at the end of the seventy years in Babylon. In fact, even the minority of fifty thousand who chose to return with Ezra to the Promised Land did so with little faith. The larger part of the nation failed to repent of their sin and disobedience, which caused God to send them into captivity. The majority simply settled down as colonists in what is now Iraq-Iran.
The solution to the mystery of the duration of Israel’s worldwide dispersion and return is found in a divine principle revealed to Israel in Leviticus 26. In this chapter the Lord established promises and punishments for Israel based on her obedience and disobedience. On four different occasions in the passage, God told Israel that if, after being punished for her sins, she still did not repent, the punishments previously specified would be multiplied by seven (the number of completion).
“And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.”
Leviticus 26:18 (see also Leviticus 26:21, 23-24, 27-28).
In other words, if Israel did not repent; the punishments already promised would be prolonged seven times:
360 years x 7 = 2,520 biblical years
Therefore, the end of the punishment and restoration to the land would be accomplished in 2,520 biblical years of 360 days each.
The end of the captivity in Babylon, according to the Bible and other historical sources -- including Flavius Josephus, is recorded as having occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. This date is the starting point for our calculations:
2,520 biblical years x 360 = 907,200 days
Converting this figure into our calendar year of 365.25 days and dividing365.25 into 907,200 days we reach a total of 2,483.8 calendar years. (In these calculations we must keep in mind that there is only one year between 1 B.C., and A.D. 1). Therefore, the end of Israel’s worldwide captivity would occur after a total of 2,483.8 years had elapsed from the Spring of 536 B.C.
End of Babylonian Captivity 536 B.C.
In the Spring of 536 B.C.
PLUS
The Duration of Worldwide Captivity 2483.8 Calendar years_____________
The End of Third Captivity 1948 May 14
The Rebirth of Israel
On May 14th, 1948, an event transpired which shocked foreign governments around the world. The Jews proclaimed the Independence of the reborn state of Israel and the next day Arab armies simultaneously invaded the tiny country to try to destroy it at its birth. As an old Jewish Rabbi blew on the traditional “shofar,” or ram’s horn, the Jewish people celebrated the end of their tragic worldwide dispersion and captivity at the exact time prophesied thousands of years earlier by the prophet Ezekiel.
This great day marked the first time since the days of Solomon that a united Israel took its place as a sovereign, independent state among the nations of the world. As far as I have been able to determine in my research, this fulfillment on May 14, 1948, has never been published.
Here is a fulfillment of prophecy in our time of such incredible precision that one is forced to marvel at the power of God to foresee and precisely control man’s plans and their outcomes.
What does this mean to you and me? First, it means that despite the apparent anarchy of the events of our time, God is still on the throne of this universe and is still in full control of events. The universe is unfolding precisely as our Lord ordained and foresaw millenniums ago. Second, this revelation renews our interest in the words of Jesus Christ recorded in Matthew 24:32-34:
“Now learn the parable of a fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled
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Comments: 39
Islamist rage is actually the splitting of ideals within the religion - that is the true focus. Israel, the US, women's rights - those are all peripherals.
As Israel became a power, residents of the Middle East, who at one time co-existed peacefully, were now becoming bitter enemies. The Jewish people desired a homeland so the massacre which Hitler devised would never happen to them again, but they displaced Palestinians who lived in the area they coveted. This is what today is seen as the Arab-Israeli conflict, and it has continued on.
There have been many articles on Gather dealing with both sides of the issues, from Muslims living in Jordan to those of Jewish faith living in America. Al Qaeda is not a true Muslim organization. They violate the word of God in the Qur'an by slaughtering innocents. Instead, they are a political group, in a religious guise attempting to gain a Muslim following by enflaming hatred of all that is not Islam. Their agenda is based upon power, not religion, despite their ability to blur the two.
Yes, there have been atrocities committed by people claiming "religion" as their cause, but that is by no means the way every believer in God behaves.
I do believe we are in the end times as well ,and yes, the end times can be interrupted in many ways, but there are certain things that have come to pass that the ancient people could not of visioned .
I am not into the convincing business (LOL), that's another person's job, and
anyone who wants to challenge these truths may do so -- I have no problem with that whatsoever.
The problem is pretty much that saying from an old movie:
"The truth -- you can't handle the TRUTH" and Jack Nicholson states it superbly.
I am glad I put this article out there. It showed me where people's heads were and I always like to see that.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
It is said that Jesus spoke in parables, the shallow exoteric message for the mass of normal people, would be disciples. Then with the same words there was contained the deeper essence of meaning, the esoteric for the apostles that could better understand.
In today's society people have institutionalized God in the form of religions and associated dogma. This is for the most part exoteric, rather shallow because the believers see the divine as elsewhere and other definitions are related more with manifested physicality ... such as the word Jerusalem and the willingness to lay claim of ownership to it as a city in geographic location and fight and die over it (not to mention kill) ... all exoteric, physical and objective ... the shallow meanings of the word, the 'literal' interpretation.
The more valuable understanding would be the esoteric, subjective of the spirit of the matter ... an allegorical and metaphorical understanding (not literal) where the entirety of humanity would be seen as OF the 12 tribes of Israel and all brothers and sisters (Muslims INcluded) ... and Jerusalem would be regarded as the "New Jerusalem" the concept of a coming together spiritually as ALL 12 tribes WITH the ONE God ... the end of time AS WE KNOW IT.
Meanwhile, I do not doubt the calculations ... except that our calendars have been changed at times which would throw off the numbers unless that was taken into consideration ... but it matters not to 'me' because these are objective physical concerns ... as Peggy Ann says, the 'second coming' will not be that in body except for the exoteric people that will have a very long wait and will most likely never recognise 'Him' even IF he did appear ... literal concerns.
The recognition that is most meaningful because it is the essential one, is that of the esoteric, the spiritual recognition and relationship of Christ withIN ourselves and others. That already exists but too few will ever look 'there' and find. It seems that Peggy has, as have I. I even wrote a book about my experience. Find it at Spirit Calls ... a voice from the wilderness. poke around there and find a poke point (or two) for free downloads of the rough draft if interested.
Peace, j.
I was once one of those -- still am -- who has a HUNGER for truth and will go anywhere to find it. I just have no patience for people with preconceived notions who want to tout their belief systems or personal agendas because they can't handle the truth, that's all. I will take all the time in the world with a person who is on a quest for truth, and that brings me to Lune's statement. I am very familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses, know many of them, have studied with them. There is one thing I learned by getting to know Jehovah's Witnesses and it is that one must never believe what you hear/gossip/secondhand information, but must investigate for oneself just what the truth is. I would say at least 75% of the things I had heard about Jehovah's Witnesses were LIES, and once again I was shocked about all of the misinformation I had been fed by people who were supposedly Jehovah's Witnesses, supposedly knew, or knew of someone -- all of that foolishness that simply leads to MORE foolishness. I am so tired of the "he said" "she said"...
I told the Witnesses I wanted to study, and they were willing. Then they wanted me to study with their "circuit overseers" because they thought I was very Biblically knowledgeable, and some of my questions they couldn't really answer. I spent several years studying with Witnesses. I was honest with them about the things I didn't agree with and honest with them about the things I did agree with.
Overall, the Jehovah's Witnesses are no more or no less a Christian denomination than any other.
They believe they are the ONLY ones doing the will of Jesus, therefore they believe they are the only true disciples of Jesus. In many ways, I saw more examples of Jesus in them than in other denomination of Christianity.
In EVERY Christian denomination, there is good and bad. I try to
FOCUS ON THE GOOD. It is easy enough to point out the bad.
Like I said earlier, I wouldn't be in a convincing mode, but I am in a sharing mode.
I don't have the capacity at this point to go any further than that. This is laid out pretty plainly.
Interesting numbers, but I already kinda figured '48 started the "clock" of that fateful "generation". For one thing, it's right there in the words of the Christ which you quote; the fig tree is used in other places to symbolize the tribe of Judah.
I concur with your comments about the Jehovah's Witnesses, a rather eccentric, but harmless bunch. They've got the try to be like Jesus part down pretty well, though I found their doctrines rather hard to square with the Book, and like you, raised some questions those I dealt with had no real answers for.
The same goes for your comments about Muslims, which Al-qaeda definitely are not. Oddly, a similar thing holds for Palestinians, and Israelis as well, since neither is a particularly "religious" people, and are actually among the most secular of "western" cultures. To this day many of the artifacts, documents, and "holy" sites we tend to associate with the Bible are preserved and protected by Muslims, as they have been for over a thousand years.
The "Israeli" Palestinian conflict, just like the beef between the West and "Islam", is about political/economic issues, not any theological squabbles. All three major branches of the Abrahamic tradition consider the others close relatives, not mortal enemies, as we are so often led to imagine.
What is happening was foretold in the Book, but is not caused by it. Man is doing this to himself, with the "help" of a certain "person" who shall remain nameless, though he has many. Folks are rather gullible, which of course, kinda started the whole thing a very long time ago now.
But I always say; 'if the shoe fits ... ', just in case. :-)
Palestinians, and Israelis as well, since neither is a particularly "religious" people, and are actually among the most secular of "western" cultures.
I can't speak for all Israelis, but I do know a few, dated one, and from what he and his friends tell me, you are right, Israel is very secular. The strange thing was when it came to marriage, I had to convert to Judaism and get rid of all my male friends or he would kill them. As first I thought he was kidding...enough said about that.
The "Israeli" Palestinian conflict, just like the beef between the West and "Islam", is about political/economic issues
On point, again. No story here, because I tell too much, but everybody wants a piece of the pie
What is happening was foretold in the Book, but is not caused by it. Man is doing this to himself, with the "help" of a certain "person" who shall remain nameless, though he has many. Folks are rather gullible, which of course, kinda started the whole thing a very long time ago now
This is the greatest truth of all. In the final analysis, John, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone "thinks" for that matter. God saw what was going to happen from the beginning, made provisions for it, and all the reasoning, talking, justifying, excusing away, blah, blah, blah...isn't going to change it. I told God as a very small child that I wasn't into "invisible stuff", that He would have to PROVE things to me. Cynic and skeptic that I continue to be, He has and I can only pity those who don't see. It's only a temporary condition, though.
Thanks, John!
Jerry...WHAT!!!
Good to hear from you, again. If you might direct me to other calculations like this I would like to see them. From what I tried to uncover I haven't found this before -- this is a first. But, I am always interested in learning and don't mind doing my own homework.
I, too, have the utmost respect for everyone's belief systems, and if you read this thread you'll see that it was not I who led it down the path it took.
Re-reading it made it realize it is more a collection of nudges and fears than anything else, but that too has to do with a person's belief system.
My belief system got me up INSTANTLY out of a deathbed when doctors were saying, "let's make her as comfortable as possible." with dangerous drugs and narcotics. That was, today is the 7th? 1 year, and 6 days ago and I haven't had one sick day since, not even a cold. I like that belief system. My belief system is going to keep me healthy until the day I (emphasis on "I") decide I want to be with God or He calls this world to book, whichever comes first.
May everyone's belief system work as well for them and theirs.
Thanks again for the reference above. I know I have said this before, but I'll say it again:
I never wanted to get into these things, certainly not this deeply. It seemed person after person kept pressing the issue. The Revelations thing never entered my head, was mentioned by someone else, and from there the article took a whole different turn. My initial focus was on the mathematical accuracy of prophecy. But people allowed themselves to get distracted, maybe because Revelations is a hotter topic than calculations -- I do not know. Now, again, I am like you, I don't want to venture down this path, but you said some things that cannot be left unanswered.
Quote:
Matthew 24:32-34:
"Now learn the parable of a fig tree;
When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
From your studies with Jehovah's Witnesses you will remember their their calculations which worked out to be the generation of 1914 they apply this scripture to, using the "time, times, and half a time" correlations. Before this Russel and Judge Ruthorford printed some very exacting calculations using interpretations of scripture prophecy. You can find these in old Watchtower Bible & Tract publications. The calculations kept changing through the years, becoming updated as "new light was shed" and after the calculated dates came and went. Being raised as a Jehovah's Witness from 1957 to 1980 something, I was taught the calculations regularly.
Me:
As far as the 1914 calculations, I never bought into any of it, Sierra, and it caused, oh I have to sigh, a multitude of problems. They couldn't answer my questions, got frustrated with me, and so we would move on to the next lesson. They never made sense to me; for one thing, the "fig tree", Israel, had not even come to be a nation yet. I hope that doesn't offend you. I learned a lot with Jehovah's Witnesses. They, however, didn't want to study with ME after doctors couldn't explain, said my healing was miraculous. You probably know they don't believe in that and thought it might have been Satanic. But my being miraculously healed was a no-no.
Quote: Peter Lemesurier does some fantastic calculations in "The Armegeddon Script" In his book "The Great Pyramid Decoded" he shows page after page of mind blowing calculations "proving" that the whole history and prophetic future of man is recorded in the stone blocks comprising the Great Pyramid of Giza.
Me: Thanks, Sierra, If the book is still available (in print) I will get it after my next vacation and read it!
Quote: The Bible also says that this time will come like a thief in the night and not even the angels in heaven know the hour.
Me: The scriptures you are referring to are in Matthew and Thessalonians.
Matthew 24:36 and I Thessalonians Chapter 5
Jesus said: 36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
The key being "day" and "hour", but he continues to command, it wasn't a request, in verse 42;
"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
As reasonable as Jesus was, why would he command them to watch, if they were to be taken as thieves in the night? In v. 43, Jesus says:
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Again, why is Jesus commanding them to "watch" if it is inevitable that he is coming like a thief in the night? Well, Paul the Apostle sheds some light on it.
Paul's letter to the Thessalonians below. Notice how he differentiates between you (ye)(brethren) and they(non-believers). He also refers to himself and the brethren as "us," "we," once again differentiating themselves from the "they."
1. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Interjection:
Paul makes it clear upon whom that day shall come upon like a thief in the night, but it won't be "you, brethren…"
5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10. Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Quote: The calculations you have given us here are good ones and work out very nicely. But really I am tired of these kinds of calculations and feel they are very off track of the real meaning and message of the times we live in right now. But I do thank you for them.
Me: Which brings me back to something I think I said earlier. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I thought the calculations were fascinating, and fun. And, I guess I will have to be just blunt, It doesn't matter to me whether another person believes as I do or not. Period! I don't proselytize; that isn't my job. Whoever would think I do, doesn't know me. (Now, when it comes to Obama, that might be a different story because I do campaign), but Christianity -- no!
God gave every individual the right to choose, and NOBODY has the right to infringe upon that God-given right. So, think what you want; that was not my purpose.
I still wish everyone the best in whatever belief system(s) they choose, and but it's a positive thing it did because it was a revealing, learning experience.
Paul's letter was addressed to the Thessalonians, and also the Corinthians regarding Rapture.
Jesus -- when he spoke in the Gospels -- about the item you mentioned was referring to the Second Advent
Paul and Jesus were talking about two totally separate events.
This is truly very deep. Thanks for exercising our cerebral cortexes... And to the esteemed Ms Peggy Ann D... I believe we might be identical twins/cloans. (I'm thinking and feeling the same as vous)
These "calculations" are always meant to be convincing, yet some use the Dewey-Decimal system, others a mayan calendar and yet others references directly from the Bible. (Is that King James, Hebrew, Greek or the paper-back version?) Is "God's 2000 years measured in "God Years" or dog years? Probably why waiting and predicting and prophesying is not the way to approach the end of time. Perhaps keeping your oil changed on a regular frequency and caring and loving others regularly is a more logical approach to the judgement and afterlives. (And after all... the goal post is even being moved by the leaders of the big religions every so often... no more limbo now!)
You are all much wiser than I, so I will attempt to offer a (bud)wiser to my fellow homeless man on the street and pray that my existence today was acceptable on some level. I still think that it is far more simple than we all try to make it. What if love thy neighbor is the crux of the eternal biscuit?
GO GOD!
I just signed up at Gather Monday (March 9).
I saw Grant Jeffrey in person several times during a prophecy conference here in Florida.
See the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plc24OlZvQw
I bought two of his books at the prophecy conference and he autographed them for me.
The books were: "Countdown to The Apocalypse" and "Surveillance Society: The Rise of Antichrist".
Grant told us about an interesting news item about how God protected Israel from a planned Iranian nuclear bomb attack 7 months ago.
African pirates hijacked a ship. They became extremely sick, hair fell out, and died in a few days after breaking open a cargo container with radioactive materials - - - headed either for suicide bombers to use or to be exploded at an Israeli port.
World War 3 was almost here.