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by patrick m.
Member since:
January 15, 2007

Political in-correctness discussion

July 24, 2007 11:12 AM EDT (Updated: July 27, 2007 10:44 PM EDT)
views: 319 | rating: 9.9/10 (22 votes) | comments: 425
          "People with Courage and character always seem sinister to the rest."

                                                                                 -Hermann Hesse

 

So the question de jour: 

"Is political in-correctness, only a good way to rationalize rude behavior; by giving it an official name?  What does the role of political in-correctness play in the evolution of societies?  Why are people that make us look at 'normal' things in 'weird ways' such a pain in the arse?  Shouldn't we just discredit and run those kind of people off? You know, just let us wallow in vanilla crème? Can't they just shut up, and enjoy the American Delusion?"  (Opps!  That's  a few questions! ;-)

 

Some uppity smart people once proclaimed:

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." (hint: The Declaration of Independence)

 

Then, later on, some equally clever....but less connected....person proclaimed:

"Welcome to Wombat-land!" (hint: Lisa ;-)

 

During the course of my recent mis-adventures through a 4,000 mile drive through our fair country (and Canada; which is sort of the United States these daiz ;-), I had the opportunity to camp alongside a former self proclaimed Hippie.  Puzzled by the apparent abdication of the 'hippie left' to the 'establishment' I asked him many questions.....

 

"So, Alan, they said my car would be fixed in a few days!"

"That's wonderful, Patrick. Where did the find the parts?  It's hard enough to find parts for my BMW at home, and yet out here in the wilderness of Promised Land, Pennsylvania they can get you parts that fast?  I'm impressed."

"I told them to cannibalize your car......but I thought you'd get upset.  So they are sending a new alternator via UPS......from Auto Zone, no less."

"Oh, you shouldn't use anything but BMW parts, Patrick......its just not done!"

"Don't worry; I'll live with the consequences, Alan.  Mine isn't all nice and shiny new like yours.....it has almost 165,000 miles on it.  It's a beater. I bought it used, and will just run it into the ground."

"How distasteful, Patrick...."

"Yeah, ok. So, tell  me Alan; what happened to "free love," the "Age of Aquarius,"  and "down with the evil establishment?"

"Oh, its still there.  We are just into other things.  I'm into 'sustainability technologies' now.  That's why we didn't have kids; we felt it was a huge waste of resources to raise a kid.  I bought a PC store when they first came out, and kinda got rich.  Then I did telecom internet access at a high level until 9-11; that was a wake up call, of what I was spending my life doing.....so I changed. I left Manhattan after that. My wife is a Mac expert."

"What did you say, Alan?  I could hardly hear you over the music on your boom box."

"Isn't it great!?  I have so many rock concerts to catch up on.  My wife and I go to all the music festivals we can.  Those we can't, and most concerts, we send people to tape the music; and I listen to them when I can.  Like on this few days here alone in nature!"

"Well, it kinda spoils the quiet environment we have here in the rustic area of the park; but it's interesting.  What band is that playing now?"

"The Grateful Dead.  Yeah, this is a nice place in the park.....been coming here for 40 years, every year like clock work."

"No way, they have to be Really dead by now."

"Nope, but close...."

"I was trying to hear what you were saying about sustainable technologies, but the music....."

"Damn!  I wish my Winnebago camper wasn't broken.  This tent camping is for the birds!"

"Alan, I was just....."

"My back is killing me, sleeping on the ground like this!"

"But, Alan....can I..."

"Want another beer, Patrick? Hey, since you are all Buddhisty; did you take that Chinese train into Lhasa yet?  They had a great article in "WIRED" magazine on that engineering feat."

"Don't start me on that ecological and cultural nightmare of a project, Alan. You can read my response to the article in the September issue.  I called it "Engineering Destruction."

"I am a charter member of WIRED, you know."

"But Alan, what do you think about......"

"That guitar riff is something else, eh?  Want another beer?"

"Seriously Alan, you are avoiding any discussion of depth.  What's up?  What happened to all the rabble rousers?  What happened to the "Woodstock" mentality?"

"You know, I've been to them all.  The last one was a mess though. Doubt they will ever hold another one."

"What happened?"

"Well thousands of kids came, with stars in their eyes and about $100 in their pockets for a long weekend of concerts, free love, and fun.  Like the old days....  But the organizers prohibited bringing anything into the fields, so they had to buy drinks and food all along....cuz you couldn't come and go. A real 'captive audience,' as it were.  It was a hot and dry week, and they sold water for $4 a bottle, nasty little personal pizzas for $19, beers for $10 each, and so on.  By the last day, the kids had had it.....and went on a rampage.  They stole water, trashed the vendor's booths, and just made a mess. Ruined the whole thing."

"Damned kids!  What-ever got into them?"

"I dunno. I just don't know what the world is coming to, Patrick.  It just isn't like it used to be.  Want another beer?

"No, I have to go look for firewood and get ready for dark. You were smart to bring yours."

"Yeah, bought half a cord.  Just enough for 3 days, have it measured out just right."

"Well, I found enough for myself; but there is this cyclist guy with his wife and a little girl, and I told him to stop by and we'd help him out.  It's late, getting cold and dark; and they need wood.  Oh, here he comes."

"Dude, you got wood?"

"Uggh, yeah for you I do. Alan, you have any to spare?"

"No, just enough."

"Oh, ok.  Well, come on to my site; I have some extra."

"Thanks, I really appreciate it."

"No problem.  It's not right to leave folks cold and in the dark when you have something to help them.  Right Alan?"

"Can't hear you Patrick, am really into this tune....Later, guy."

"Yeah, later...."

 

(End of transcript of aged hippie lost in material-land....suffering from internalized "Capitalist-pig-a-phobia."

Your computer screens will be returning to normal in a few minutes. Patrick gave up trying to get ex-hippie to see his 'new' real self)

 

Patrick's Invitation:

 

Welcome to the Twilight Zone of our present lives......help us try and figure out why it's so painful, and therefore unpalatable, for many folks to deal in reality.  In Gather-land, like many places in our world, we Wombats try to persevere despite the growing sense of unreality.  Our goal?  To get published, be heard, and make positive changes in the world.....and to have a few drinks along the way ;-)

We know the core 'cause' of this dis-ease is self-a-phobia.  As the unreality grows, like "The Nothing" in the movie "The Never Ending Story,"  the magic of life is drained away.....(http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/neverending_story/about.php) 

                                 It's a  feeling of time standing still, in a weird way.........

                                   .........like being in two places simultaneously..........

                          ........you are now entering the Twilight Zone of Wombat-land.....

                                                                        Beware ;-)

 

Hope?  Always, there is hope. 

Like Bastian in the movie, if only a small grain of sand/hope remains  the belief of magic/life will re-grow into the world we once knew.  But first, like Bastian's fantasy counterpart hero, we must face our true selves.....politically in-correct as it may be, or scary as it may seem; and believe, in ourselves.

We have become a 'culture' of "self-a-phobes".....made fearful of the fact that in reality we might not be 'perfect' as a Barbie or Ken doll image; or as rich and popular as a celebrity. 

We might have some weight, we might be balding, we might be woman, man, gay, lesbian, or another un-favored minority.  Therefore in this cultural  'Twilight Zone' we have been taught to despise things about ourselves....and internalized these 'defects' as deficiencies in who we are!  Made fearful of our true selves, and internalizing these fears so deeply that we don't see them even as we act them out....as all suppressed psychological 'issues' ultimately are.

As an example, many suffer from the malaise of internalized homo-phobia, and rather than heal their image of themselves, play it out on others. Cheap Trick, is not just the name of a band.....its a way of lashing out at ourselves, by using and discarding others.....sexually, creatively, and by whoring out their hard work. It is a dehumanizing 'activity' that stunts other's development; by wrongly medicating/numbing our senses to our true selves, and playing it out on others by virtue of our denial.  There are many 'self-phobias' that are internalized; that lead to self hate and the negative consequences.....internalized homo-phobia is just easier to explain.

 In Gather-land,  Wombats are the exception......therefore, while politically incorrect, they are the most constructive and un-fear-full.  In Gather-land, therefore, they are the Twilight Zone.

Supposed outcast contest losers, they produce prolific threads of commentaries.....running on and on; expanding forever outward.....exceeding all those many contrived threads and articles in volume, quality, and duration.   Why? Because the magic lives in each true Wombat. 

What is a Wambat's cause then?

To spread their apparent alternate reality by doing.

By being.

By defying the 'conviction of the day.' 

To boldly go where men have gone before, but have forgotten.

To write real and heartfelt literature......of great, or of merely passable, quality does not matter.

To be one with their "wombat-ness!"

 

"Ommmmmmm"

 

:-)

 

 

 

***********************************

Footnotes:

 

From Wikipedia:  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twilight_Zone)

The TWILIGHT ZONE is described as another dimension.

It is "a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind",

"a place of things and ideas",

"between the pit of Man's fears, and the summit of his knowledge."

The twilight zone, in a nutshell, is the mind and imagination of man,

where any thought can become a reality.

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Comments: 425

Ken C. Jul 24, 2007, 11:43am EDT
Francis Dunnery asked us to sing along and I did what I could to add to the sweet harmony.

Are you Irish, Are you Catholic,
Are you Jewish, Are you Clan?
Are you Pro-Choice, Are you Baptist,
And I said, I ain`t anything,I`m just a Man!

And I refuse to stoop so low when I feel so a part of you all,
Cos I know you`re all good souls underneath the Beer
And if I`m good enogh for my God, And I`m good enough for me,
Then why crucify me with a label, of someone and something I was never meant to be!

- Francis Dunnery, I'm Just a Man
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Ken C. Jul 24, 2007, 11:50am EDT
Pat raises an interesting point.

Ken, you're going to make a book out of us, aren't you? How sly, to spy, and to record all our foibles and squabbles.

I think novelists are like vampires. We lurk and observe and steal anything that fits our evil plan. It's not completely wholesome. I've even warned people. For example, my neighbor is part of the security detail for Bill Gates and his family. I've warned him not to tell me anything interesting.
Discuss.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 12:01pm EDT
Ken, I've heard it said that writers are the worst of all liars.....because we make everything up as we go. But I disagree, we are more like thee......if not careful, vampires of life.

The dialogue in my article above is a summary of two days of listening to this real guy say pretty close to the same things......I couldn't be creative enough to lie that one up! ;-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 12:14pm EDT
I do best blending real life stuff into fictional stories.... I try real hard to not use things I learn/see/do with others in my writings, but its hard not to. I think Hemmingway, for example, was a real ass of a person......using everyone in his life for his books; and going through women like water.....

But its unavoidable to use what we hear and see.......aren't we supposed to capture life like painters/artists do?

Guess its back to the chicken or the egg thing, again....Art imitating life, or visa versa....
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 12:25pm EDT
I liked what I've read of Hemingway so far, at least the women in it were good. The lead character in Sun Also Rises I almost care for as if it is even him.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 12:26pm EDT
I include real people in my work, and what I've written so far is based on my life.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 12:32pm EDT
I love his books, Ian......its the guy himself that was a bit ,ummmm, distasteful.....

Although his daughter......she is pretty well 'together'.....maybe I'm wrong about him...just rumors, I guess.....
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 12:37pm EDT
Opps, I must give credit where credit is due.......

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another .....etc..." is from the Declaration of Independence. AND,

"Welcome to Wombat-land!", is of course attributable to the queen of wambat-land, Lisa :-)

(whew, hate to have the article flagged for copy right violations ;-)
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Dave S. Jul 24, 2007, 12:37pm EDT
Patrick: Thanks for hosting. I'm glad you posted the short version of your article. :>)
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Judi F. Jul 24, 2007, 12:38pm EDT
Ken, you "bad" "bad" ""man" - an annoying habit, huh? I'll have to work on that. :) That was toooooo funny! So when Danny boy goes missing, we'll send the FBI your way.

Patrick, we never knew ye! - "Hemmingway, for example, was a real ass of a person" = concise and to the point.

Off to edit. Thanks, Patrick for the monologue (dialogue too?) above. I'm getting kinda scared when it's my turn to host - what do I say?
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 12:40pm EDT
It will come to you, Judi! No worries.
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Dave S. Jul 24, 2007, 12:40pm EDT
Ken: Your send-off from the Moronic Verses is an absolute stitch!!! Thanks for being such an amiable host. Sorry about the damage to your putting green.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 12:48pm EDT
OK, so Patrick has set the record for longest Wombat intro thread, and I still don't know where we are. Are we camping? Because if so, my spoiled little consumer princess self is going to need mass quantities of bug spray and whatever Patrick's consuming. OK ,I'll give it a try.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 12:59pm EDT
don't 4get to take a couple aspirin tho judi ;-)

I know i can provoke headaches......oh well.....

One guy told me: "Don't you ever get tired of thinking? Doesn't your brain ever hurt?"

(hint: a 6' 4" surfer dude from El Monte, CA....who lived on Huntington Beach. Yes, I am envious ;-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 1:05pm EDT
This place (see photo) is indeed in bumble-f*k Penn......and it is truly called "Promised Land, PA" I kid you not. When my car broke down on the way back from taking my son back to West Point, I spent a month there for 3 days! And, I had an old hippie as my only neighbor.....he was about 4 sites away. Penn. had a budget crisis, and furloughed all state employees for a few daiz. So they kicked everyone out of the state parks (can you imagine being on your vacation and getting kicked out!) Well, my car luckily broke down near this nice place....the day they returned to work! :-) So the place was empty....hence the ability to skinny dip whenever I wanted. There was also a nice little beach area.....where they kicked me out for bringing my little white fuzzy puppy (no pets in the wild areas, so the bears wouldn't get provoked into eating them ;-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 1:07pm EDT
Sooo, Pat, you are WHEREVER your heart desires you to be.....that is the essence of the Twilight Zone.....it takes you places you want to go, but maybe shouldn't? Or places you didn't expect?

Its where-ever, when-ever, you like.....

Kinda meta-physical...... ;-)
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Ken C. Jul 24, 2007, 1:10pm EDT
added a couple of images to my Dan Brown story if anyone is interested. And why wouldn't you be? Ha!

Ken's Tedious Dan Brown Story
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 1:12pm EDT
Pat, I know you are too young to remember;-), but there once was a show on TV called the Twilight Zone, with Rod Sterling as the writer/narrator.....over 86 episodes! Here is a link......


Twilight Zone TV show, and Rod Sterling
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 1:22pm EDT
Patrick, you flatter me. I'm betting I'm older than you, although I do admit, I was only a little girl when this show was on. There were only three channels, and no remote, but Mother got to pick what we watched, and TZ was not on the kid-approved list. Actually, the few episodes I've seen have freaked me out anyway. Something about all the time and quiet to read, and a pair of broken reading glasses? Still makes me shudder to think of it.

I spent 6 years living in PA, far, far back in the mountains near State College. Is that anywhere near where you were?
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Stephen Prosapio Jul 24, 2007, 2:05pm EDT
Is patrick back from vacation yet? Somebody let me know if he has any opinions on anything...
;-P

Ken - great piece on the old thread. "Great job!" I encouraged enthusiastically. "I couldn't have done it better myself," I condoned graciously. "Say hi to Dan for me, would you?" I asked humbly and self-effacingly. "The guy sometimes gives me the creeps," I admitted...chillingly.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 2:23pm EDT
Patrick, I looked up the place you were staying. It looks beautiful, probably no more than an hour or two from where I lived. Lovely place, if only they had understood the concept of pizza delivery...
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Dale C. Jul 24, 2007, 2:34pm EDT
Judi & Jamie: I don't know if I can hit 75,000-80,000 words without padding the story to the point of making it pretty obvious that's what I'm doing. I do have 40,000-odd words left over from the sub-plots that I took out to make this a semblance of a Romance, but I don't think they would fit in without changing the focus of the story. Plus the only one with any kind of romance potential was the emotional vampire subplot, and that one tended to grow over the rest of the story like kudzu. Getting rid of that was part of the reason I was so enthusiastic about the revision.

I'll stay on my current plan for now and hope that it runs a little longer than I expect or that I can figure out a way to integrate another one of the subplots. The revisions should also add a few thousand words as I dress up the scenes.
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Jerry Kays Jul 24, 2007, 2:38pm EDT
That is a 'meta' :-| , probably a :-) , maybe ?
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Ken C. Jul 24, 2007, 2:46pm EDT
Thank you guys for the compliments on my creative writing. I couldn't sleep, so I got up at 3:00 and threw it together. I had a crisis of confidence and hesitated on hitting the post button. What if they hate it? What if they object to my absurd characterizations? What if I think I'm PJ O'Rourke and I'm really Mr. POD-loser-guy?

That reminds me, has anyone seen my watch? The last time I saw it, DB was admiring it. Haven't seen it since.
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 2:48pm EDT
But...but...I can't stand Dan Brown!

I mean as a writer. I've never actually held him hostage.
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Beth H. Jul 24, 2007, 3:48pm EDT
Patrick, thanks for having us. Of course, if we're out in the woods, I guess we're responsible for our own messes. Twilight Zone, indeed.

Not sure what to respond to on the article, but loved: To spread their apparent alternate reality by doing.
By being.
By defying the 'conviction of the day.'
To boldly go where men have gone before, but have forgotten.
To write real and heartfelt literature......of great, or of merely passable, quality does not matter.
To be one with their "wombat-ness!"

I love being a Wombat. (Of course I'm still thinking that the Inklings and the Algonquin Round Table had it a bit better.) Looking for those t-shirts. That would even the field for me.
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 3:49pm EDT
Lovely "short" post, Patrick. You were supposed to prove me wrong by being concise. Now I'm going to get all "full of myself" because you proved me right. As for your questions - I'm of a self-absorbed generation called generation X. I don't have prejudices because that would take me out of my self-absorbed little world. If it's not about me, then I don't care sort of mentality (well, not really, but if you read descriptions of my "generation" that's about the gist of it).
Beware my switchblade...
You know, Ken, if you really knew me, you'd know I'd be apt to cut my own fingers off with a switch blade with my clumsiness, or accidently slit D.B.s wrists - there are reasons I'm not a surgeon. It's so hilarious that pacificist, passive aggressive, shy me has obtained this type of persona. I am amused.

Okay, must edit my pack of lies, to wind them more tightly.
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Beth H. Jul 24, 2007, 3:55pm EDT
Dale, may you be stricken with clever verbosity! I must admit that I wouldn't be of any help--I always have too many words.

Lisa, your words last night about getting started and just writing must have played in my dreams. I had this great scene running through my mind all morning--while in the shower, while driving, while trying to work. Aaah! I just need to write it down before I lose it. But it's not the 3rd novel in my series--it's the continuation of Point & Shoot. Maybe it will make a nifty detective yarn.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 4:10pm EDT
Good luck, Dale and Beth. Don't let yourselves be unmotivated or distracted. I'm still editing, and I started over. I'm still on chapter 1.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 4:12pm EDT
Dale, when in doubt, throw in a sensitive scene. You do have at least two, right? You cna close your eyes and keep the door closed, but they must be in there. If I remember from Judi's thread, aren't you the one that had the guy telling a joke in the middle of it? Bad karma Dale. Now you have to make up for it here.

And Ken, those cigars I stol..I mean, that you gifted me with, aren't for hubs. He doesn't smoke. But Pete and I do have to do some stocking up to do for that tropical island. Can't count on regular deliveries. Well except for pizza. That's what the helipad is for.

Wish I knew where you folks keep finding these ideas. I've decided to name my next dog 'Inspiration'. At least he'll come when I whistle for him!
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Dave S. Jul 24, 2007, 4:17pm EDT
Pat: That TZ story struck a chord with me also. It's the one episode I remember first whenever I think of the show -- the one where the fellow was the last man on earth and was going to read millions of books, but his glasses were destroyed. I can't remember the details. Someday, I may buy the boxed DVD set. Or maybe my family will take the hint and get it for my birthday. Someday.
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Judi F. Jul 24, 2007, 4:45pm EDT
The freakiest TZ was the one with the guy on the wing of the plane. I hate that I've seen that one every time I get on a plane at night.

OMG, Pat - AGAIN you slay me!!! Inspiration so he'll come when I call!

Beth - I do all my best thinking in the shower, which means either the rest of the day is like a trip to the zoo or I'm reeeeeeeally clean :)
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 4:53pm EDT
I'm just leaving a quick comment while my coffee brews.

Let's discuss something specific. Could we practice on what qualifies as showing and what is telling? Or an example of authorial interruption that doesn't count as internal monologue? Somewhere in Parallel Opposites, I make mine mostly 3rd person limited, but in some places I say things in narration that have me guess that this is omniscient. I'm thinking I really don't know how to switch to omniscient. Everything I'm writing when I think it's narration in omniscient is actually 3rd person limited internal monologue. Even a description of her clothing could be seen as something she is concious of, so that would make it 3rd person limited, but another reader might have the impression that it's all telling omniscient, a more journalistic approach. Who has the answers at how to write one versus the other? If you have links to websites for us, this would be the time to share, to get those of us busy who are busy editing some thought to this as we fix things up.

I found a website, or two actually: Byline Magazine has contests and agents subscribe to these issues. Also there is something I found with an online workshop from New York for actually a good price, and it lasts for a month or so. $315 for that on. I can't remember the site, but I'll get back to you all on that one. I'm hoping sometime next year, Byline Magazine will have a contest for novelists, but it seems for now they're doing genre fiction and short stories or novellas. Also poetry. The other website is shawgroup or something, but I'm not for sure.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:20pm EDT
the website is shawguides.com
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:22pm EDT
Now I know the episode I want: MechaStreisand
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:31pm EDT
If you've got VHS, then you need the VHS gift packs of South Park, for $.01 each. Even Bigger, Longer, Uncut is $.01 on VHS.
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Stephen Prosapio Jul 24, 2007, 5:33pm EDT
Ian, agents are looking for you primarily in one place....thier query pile. Period. Enter whatever contests you want to hopefully help build your resume and accomplishments to put on your query letter. Don't pay money for things you think will get you noticed by agents. Period.

As for showing vs telling. First, not all telling is bad. Pick up any published novel and you'll find some subtle or not so subtle forms of telling. Learning what you can and can't get away with is part of the art, hence part of the fun of writing. I think Beth did a "Showing vs Telling" thread at one point, right Beth?

Essentially "telling" is like reading a book report. Showing is plopping your reader down in a 3D scene. Telling also typically gets you into POV trouble. - If John is your POV character and you write "Mary looked nervously at the window." - what you're TELLING is that Mary is nervous....which John couldn't know.

Ask yourself "What's the thing behind the thing?" - What IS nervously? Mary drummed her fingers on the table and bit her lip as she looked to the window. See? Get it? SEE? Showing.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 5:37pm EDT
MechaStreisand sounds awful scary, Ian!

Imagine a huge Barbara fighting of mecha-Godzilla.....who would win? Better than the Mothra battle, no doubt.

;-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 5:40pm EDT
Oh, Hi, Stephen.....yes, I am back from 'vacation' :-)

And Jamie, how could I ever prove you wrong......you are always so right....seriously.

I'll do the short version thing someday. This next book on Charleston should only be 400 pages, for example ;-)

So for the length, thing; but I haven't yet gotten over that reviewer woman who tried to trash me with a reference to "some people's post being twice as long as their penis". So, I think its just an unconscious shield on my manhood :-o
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:41pm EDT
Yes, but for characters who are intuitive, wouldn't they kind of know if a person is nervous? You could say "as if she were nervous," but it wouldn't have the same power as saying "obviously, she was nervous" or go into some detail about what she's doing, but to cut to that observation, I'd say "obviously she was nervous" since I already have over 100,000 words. Most of what you write I think will show a character's intuition about someone. For example:

Renee didn't know where to begin. It seemed Laura – standing there, contemplating - wanted to talk, but now? Was something wrong? Had the last guy been calling her again already after all that? And why not go shopping sometime with her? "So what are you doing today?" she said.

(Renee is the one thinking and talking here).
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:44pm EDT
I switch back to Laura's intuition about her mother, but really you could imagine the look on Renee's face with these thoughts, and the sort of action that follows with Laura suggests a lot:

If Laura could say the right thing, Renee would hold on to that for weeks, perhaps years. She didn't want to sound wrong to her mother. "It's just that I don't have the time." Laura put her glass down, turned to leave the kitchen. In her kindest way, she said, "I'm going out for a walk before I leave."
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:47pm EDT
Actually, I thought "Laura chomped on some ice, contemplating again on the cows down below." came after the first example, so I showed something else that came after it actually, but their thoughts and actions do suggest the intuitive. You make a good case though, Steve.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 5:48pm EDT
As for TZ episodes......of course I was flattering you, Pat ;-) Shameless flattery is part of the 'hosts' responsibility, no? :-)

No, honestly, I said that for the young 'uns sake; without pitching my age ;-)

I think that Twilight Zone was one of those banned programs by the churches at the time (as was superman for attempting to supplant God and Jesus as having super powers) Thou shall not honor false Gods, eh?

I still saw a few though, and they did freak me out. To watch them now is kinda silly, but then....when the TV was black and white (all of them, btw) and the screen was about 24" round!! Seriously.....

So those static interruptions were simulating reality......like your TV was being taken over.... Now we just have 'white noise', commonly known as marketing and 'news.'

Opinions, Stephen? Yeah I guess I have a few..... And my little article means different things to different people.....some closeted Gather folks will 'get it'....I hope :-)
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Stephen Prosapio Jul 24, 2007, 5:55pm EDT
Honestly Ian - that reads like a book report to me. Others may disagree and internal dialogue is important...but typically used sparingly to give the reader an idea of how THAT CHARACTER is processing information.

try this.

Renee didn't know where to begin with Laura – would she want to talk? Was something wrong?

"So what are you doing today?" Renee asked aloud.

"Nothing."

"Have you heard from—"

"Look, I'm not in the mood to talk," Laura said with a deep sigh, "and no, before you ask, I don't have time to go shopping."


Yours 49 words, mine 57 - I'm not saying that's anything what you want to convey...but look WHAT I've conveyed in a short amount of time. The reader is now engaged. WONDERING WHAT'S WRONG...how Laura will react.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 5:56pm EDT
Closeted probably means you're still a little girl trapped in a boy's body, while gay means you're one of the boys' boys.
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 5:58pm EDT
HAH! Judi, I'm a shower-thinker too. Never fails. No wonder I'm late for work so often.

Walks work well for me too.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 6:00pm EDT
Actually, I like mine for who I know the characters to really be, and it's more like what I've read of Cunningham and James Baldwin. I'm kind of trying to go for that style of narration, falling somewhere between the two. Not to mimic, though, but I think my sense of writing does fall between them, not to say one is better than the other because stylistically they really left their mark. I catch on to what they're saying, too, and what they're visualizing.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 6:17pm EDT
Sometimes, people read a lot of attitude in my writing, because we tend to read a lot of attitude and excitement in anyone's comments online, chat or Gather, and it's misleading. What I wanted to show there with Renee was that she was nervous, and not at all calm. For one thing she drinks too much coffee, manages a kindergarten class, and has no time for herself or her daughter. My mom can be pretty distraught, so I went ahead with a lot of questions because with all this she'd have that sense of urgency with Laura. And Laura is depressed, but she doesn't have an attitude. She borders on slipping into her first psychosis while the marijuana and other things are producing rapid thinking, but in combination with other things like nicotine and caffeine, which altogether produce one thought to another, so that's what I go into as briefly and substantially as I can. I try to have some amount of intimacy with my words as well, and you may be reading me now as being defensive, but really I have wanted to discuss something like this for a while, and I'm never combative with people to the slightest degree. I'm not an average person, and my guess is that none of us are. As for it reading like a book report, I think it's difficult to have any amount of narration not feel that way sometimes, depending on how we're reading it. There's really no skipping some parts, and dialogue doesn't always work in these situations where the writing must be there. A person needs to commit themselves to reading and not being entertained but understanding the themes and applying this knowledge to the reader's life. There's a real difference I see from professional work to my own work, but it's not easy applying some of the techniques without some serious reading. I'm really new at this.
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 6:22pm EDT
Beth - yay! I've definitely gotten sucked into the series trap because it's just too much fun to write in a lot of ways, but starting something new is great, and in a different genre too! You had an awfully good beginning there, IMO.
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 6:22pm EDT
Have some of my best ideas in the shower, too. Something about the ambiance of the bathroom, I think. No distractions in there, maybe. Sound of the rushing water, cling of moisture to the lungs, scent of soap, sting of shampoo in the eyes - toilet flush, scalding pain, ah, yes, comforting. Best thoughts come at those times.

No offense, Ian. But I've never heard of Cunningham or Baldwin (Alec Baldwin, yes, James, no.) Like rock musicians, I guess writers have influences. I've never paid attention to who was influencing my work though.

Twilight Zone - I've seen a lot of episodes. Good stuff. I know the plane episode Judi is talking about and the broken glasses/reader episode too. Both creepy. Twilight Zone is the kind of creepy I like. All this new "torture porn" as they call it, isn't scary/creepy at all. Just gory. Bleh.

What's the scariest movie(s) you've seen?
For me:
1. Candyman (*shudders) - hands down, scariest movie EVER
2. The Ring (watched it by myself and kept turning it off because I thought it was going to be scary, I'd turn it back on after I regained my courage and the scene would be far less scary than I imagined - good though, because it made me freak myself out)
3. Pet Cemetary creeped me out too. That little kid with the scalpel and the scampering foot steps "Play with me." (*creepy)
4. anything with an animated/living doll (except Chuckie. He's too obnoxious to be scary)
I'm sure there are others I'm forgeting.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 6:35pm EDT
The movie My Little Eye is the scariest by far.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 7:11pm EDT
I don't watch scary movies if I can help it. I'm a total chicken. M. Knight Shyamalan freaks me out on occassion, in the same way Hitchcock does. What your mind can imagine is way more powerful than blood and gore splashed everywhere.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 7:11pm EDT
my scary movie? The flying monkeys in Wizard of Oz :-) As a kid, OMG, they freaked me out.....
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Stephen Prosapio Jul 24, 2007, 7:12pm EDT
Ian, no sweat. No attitude - you asked a quesiton and I gave my opinion. It is what it is, the opinion of an unpublished writer. Take what you like and leave the rest. It is hard to read a bit of narration mid-story, not knowing what the other person wants to convey. If you're going to write distant 3rd person narration for much of your work, you're going to need it to flow beautifully and keep people enthralled in both your words and your story. Again, just my opinion.

Hey Patrick. You're back? Why so quiet?
LOL
Thanks for hosting! I love the TZ! Funny story: I added it to my "tivo" list a couple months back, it would record an episode a week. Two weeks into that, I came home and there were FIFTY SEVEN episodes saved. They'd run a "marathon." LOL

One of them gave me the idea for a cool movie screenplay....on the "someday" list of course.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 7:13pm EDT
I'm with Pat and Jamie.....the current 'scary' movies are just gross out violent/snuff films (which used to be THE worst kind of porn movie, sex and violence) i.e. Blade, and successors....

Me? I don't like sex with violence.....it should be fun. Pain and sex no go together for healthy psyche's.....so ban violence/sex films, and it would be ok with me.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 7:14pm EDT
I think we all remember the episode with the broken glasses is that for readers like us, not being able to read would be our worst nightmare. And if I'm not mistaken (could be), in the episode on the plane, the man looking out the window was William Shatner!
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 7:14pm EDT
they are waiting for me for dinner...gotta run, Cu i a while :-)
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Ken C. Jul 24, 2007, 7:24pm EDT
Nabokov talked about three creative places: the Bed, the Bath and the Bus. The idea is your mind freewheels during the routine activities of the day.
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 7:25pm EDT
It was totally William Shatner!
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Stephen Prosapio Jul 24, 2007, 7:25pm EDT
"Saw" started it. But Saw was good....had a plot - the copycats from it typically don't. In fact, a case could be made that Saw was a late copycat of Se7en - a great (yet gory) film. I'd put that on my list. I'd put the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers on there.....old school, baby. The original Halloween. Sex or no sex, it was scary. Obviously The Exorcist.

New ones....first that comes to mind is Jeepers Creepers. ewwww, that one got me. The sequel not so much.

One that didn't get much attention - Stir of Echos. And The Mothman Prophesies.

I'm sure there are others. Good topic.
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Stephen Prosapio Jul 24, 2007, 7:26pm EDT
So wait, why couldn't that guy go get another pair of glasses again?
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Beth H. Jul 24, 2007, 7:27pm EDT
Steve, thanks for the opportunity for a shameless plug. Ian, for a discussion on showing vs. telling-- Show & Tell.

Twilight Zone used to freak me out. Rod Serling's Night Gallery did too. Don't really watch scary movies any more. Magic with Anthony Hopkins spooked me. The first "When a Stranger Calls" was bad. Bad movie, bad scary. Hey, I was a teenaged baby-sitter back then!

I'm about to post four articles for the Groups Directory. Don't feel that you have to read or comment--most of you know about the groups anyway. However, feel free to join the groups if you haven't.

All you other group owners, have you posted articles to the Directory? A good place for listing your groups.

I updated my First Paragraph, if anyone wants to check it out. I promise I will also get back to everyone else's updated paragraphs.
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 7:47pm EDT
When a Stranger Calls was scary. Teenage babysitters everywhere refused to answer the phone. Was it the second one where he was painted to look like her brick wall and in her apartment? THen he opens his eyes and you see him? Yikes.

My son absolutely loves the Scary Movie spoofs. He doesn't watch scary movies though. My sister is a die hard horror fan.

Torture porn isn't sexual. It's some new "genre" of purely gorish film all about torture. I didn't know it was called that until I read an article about the fall of torture porn - I was like, there was a rise? It's the TRASH of the horror genre, not that there much good stuff in the horror genre. I haven't seen any of the movies put in that camp. I see that the "theme" is death and gore and steer clear. Movies such as Saw I through III, Disturbia, etc.

Anyone seen that movie called "23" (I think)? Just came out on DVD. Is it worth a watch? Looks creepy, but not gory. I don't know though.

Even though Seven was gory, it was cleverly plotted. So I wouldn't put it in the same camp as torture porn, but I've never seen any of those other films, so I guess I can't judge.

Jeepers Creepers scared the bejeezus out of me until they revealled the mass murder was a "demon". What a let down. Would have been scarier if he'd been human. Kind of like Silence of the Lambs with his skin suit - that was a good flic.

The TZ guy couldn't get new glasses because he was the last man on earth and had a strange/thick prescription. I'm not sure anything was left but the library.
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Ian M. Jul 24, 2007, 7:57pm EDT
I agree that when, on Jeepers Creepers, he's putting bodies down a tube and then chasing two witnesses in the middle of nowhere is quite scary. I'd also agree it should've been something like Jason in order to move the story in a different direction. The flying part where he's on the cop car was good, though. I just didn't like him taking the one main character and taking his face off or something. There have been a few movies that actually put me in the hospital in 2004, to be honest.
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 8:09pm EDT
What's Groups Directory?

I don't think we need to list Wombats. Let those who seek, find!
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 8:10pm EDT
Am I the only one not changing my first paragraph? I'm thinking this is a bad sign.

Okay, finished with my latest edit through Wolf Huntress. I cut 4,000 words. Still 5,000 words over the word count limit. GRRR! No mercy this run through.

The scariest part of Jeepers Creepers was that ceiling with all the human bodies-- like a sculpture. I will never get that image out of my head. It was similar to that painting behind Pacino's desk in The Devil's Advocate. I loved that movie, Devil Advocate. I'm not sure why.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 8:11pm EDT
Just got back from the vid store....23 was there Jamie, in today and all checked out. That is the Jim Carrey movie that everyone said was sucha horror working with him! ;-)
It didn't look too good. I got "Perfume."

Thanks for the clarification of the genre of torture porn.....I think "Blade" is slaughter porn.

I dont know about you, but finding decent movies for the kids is tough.....I had a time raising mine; but now? OMG, 40% of the films are gore/murder/horror.....Now THAT creeps me out. And people wonder why kids are more violent these daiz...

Damn, I sound like an old man.....even a bit cranky. Good thing I'm not opinionated, eh Stephen?

:-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 8:12pm EDT
Hey, I still have time to post my first paragraph, eh? Till EOM, right?
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Catherine M. Jul 24, 2007, 8:20pm EDT
Hi, guys,

I'm back. But I'm still trying to return the contents of our suitcases to their rightful places. I hope to get back up to speed by tomorrow.

Later,

Cathy
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Beth H. Jul 24, 2007, 8:21pm EDT
Groups Directory, just a group that lists other groups. Kind of neat to buzz through to see what Gather has to offer.

Patrick, you still have time.

Jamie, your 100 words were sharply perfect. The rest of ours needed work.
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 8:23pm EDT
Okay, I ruthlessly just cut an entire, short chapter. 3,000 words to go.
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Lisa "Queen Wombat" F. Jul 24, 2007, 8:24pm EDT
Jamie, what is the word count about? OH - is this for the romance contest?
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Judi F. Jul 24, 2007, 8:30pm EDT
Scary movie - JAWS (hence my heroine's fear of the water in In Over Her Head), The Shining, The Fog and OMG, yes, the 1st When a Stranger Calls. Poltergeist with the clown - my best friend in high school and I saw it late at night and came back to her house where I was spending the night and dontcha just know? She had a verrrry similar clown SITTING ON HER BED!!! We threw that sucker in the closet, then neither of us wanted to sleep in her room! Silly teenage girls! Now that movie just makes me laugh. My kids look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that story, though my oldest does actually have a huge fear of clowns. Could that be why? Or maybe it's b/c I was an actual clown (you know, kids' parties, balloon animals, that sort of thing) when I was pregnant with Child #1???

I still don't like scary movies and don't watch them.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 8:35pm EDT
Jamie, do you want to edit my book? You are ruthless......how do u do it?

Isn't each word "Special"?
:-o
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 8:39pm EDT
Judi, my kids were always terrified by clowns.....and I couldn't blame them.

When living in San Francisco, we had a friend (a calif native called 'Bambi'... I kid you not) and her mother collected all things with clowns on them. Statues, paintings, pillows, puppets, etc. Now that was a weird ass house......on one of those waterways, new with lots of windows/light (thank the Lord 4 that, otherwise it would have been unbearable).

So clowns? not so much........
How about u Ian, do u like clowns? I mean they are meant to be happy, and most kids seem to like them. Mine just didn't like anything/anyone all dressed up....except in Disneyland; then it was more than Ok ;-)
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 8:39pm EDT
Oh Judi! The sisterhood ends. I know it's completely irrational, but I do *not* do well with clowns. It was ok as a kid, but now, they just freak me out. Probably that stupid movie. I'm very impressionable. Or is that easily impressed? I keep forgetting.

OK, I have to stop wasting time, and go rewrite those same 500 words I wrote last night. The stupid things have been bugging me all day!
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 8:41pm EDT
Ask jamie, Pat. She is Ruth-less!!

;-)
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 8:47pm EDT
Yes, cutting for the contest - max word count 100,000 - so cruel... I'm imagining each word costs me $50. MAN am I in debt. But makes it easier to part with such perfect, special words.

CLOWNS!!! Eeeeee! I STILL can't watch that scene in Poltergeist.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 8:48pm EDT
Patrick, at this point all I *have* is 500 hundred words. *Certain people* (I won't say who, Ken and Stephen) keep bothering me to go ahead and try writing something like a whole chapter. It'll be fun, they say. Just do it, they say. So far, I may as well be playing with paper dolls, my characters are so cardboard, and I have no idea what to do with them anyway. Oh well. I keep telling myself that if at least I cannot build their characters, at least I can build my own.
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 8:49pm EDT
Judi, do u know how many big strong men are total girls when it comes to swimming in the ocean because of Jaws? (you are not alone in that fear ). It happened to me again in Delaware.....they were even afraid of the little sand crabs that bury themselves after each wave in the surf! Men! Babies. Stephen, u aren't scared of swimming in the ocean r u? Bet not. But not a surfer dude tho?

Lisa, that is my Favorite memory of my grandmother's house in Venice when we were kids and first saw the ocean.....those thousands of little crabs. They bothered me at first (as did the big scary waves), but my dad was cool about it; so we were. He'd dive headlong into the breaking waves.......God, I'd love to go back to Venice. Maybe some day...... :-)
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Kenneth R. Besser Jul 24, 2007, 8:49pm EDT
I feel like a voyeur just reading and not contributing enough in Wombatville. But you folks say it all so well that I just can't think of anything to add.
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Kenneth R. Besser Jul 24, 2007, 8:51pm EDT
How many of us are writing, but not submitting because of fear?
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Jamie C. Jul 24, 2007, 8:52pm EDT
Just spit it out, Kenneth. What are you trying to say?

Soooo, where's your paragraph Patrick? I want to see what you can do with 100 words. Have you started reading entries yet?

Jaws didn't scare me, sorry. Guess it's the biologist in me.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 8:53pm EDT
Hey Kenneth! You don't actually have to say much. I believe the topic was whether or not cutting your beloved words out of your manuscript is more or less bloody and terrifying than watching a slasher film. Or something like that.
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 8:59pm EDT
And I think you'll find I'm the only 'fearful' one here. Everyone else is pretty brassy!
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 9:02pm EDT
Pat, build your own by creating them ;-)

I agree with they guys. Its like the ocean.....don't be afraid, just jump headlong into it. If it sux, it sux....oh well. Get over the fear of doing terribly, then everything will be fun. Well, if not fun, workable. I can't think of harder work than writing a book/story.. But you r waaaay ahead of they young 'ums. You have lots of experiences from which to 'borrow from.'

The way I started was to think of something I wanted to "say", then picked random people in random settings to have a discussion that eventually might lead me there. Again, can't stress it. There are tons of revisions ahead, and u cant hold back your creativity worrying about syntax, spelling, grammar, etc.. Just plop down your ideas, and then put them away.....snipets of conversations, scenes, even whole chapters. Then, string them together.....after you got tons (like Jamie seems to have ;-)...and cut and paste ruth-less-ly (taking out that which doesn't fit.) Think of it like good decorating.....putting things in a room for trial, and not being afraid to move the couch and big furniture when you want a different view.

The main thing? Have a theme.....have an idea what its generally about; then select what fits best (always with an eye on not overdoing it ;-) Then, like decorating, you always work on 3 levels. In decorating, you want that special color/form at eye level, slightly above eye level, and down lower (not the floor). That harmony replicates that in nature (i.e. leaves on a tree....both physically, and color wise) In writing, it good to have double or even triple entendre .....like a Disney flick thats great for the kids, but has hidden adult humor in it so we dont shoot ourselves during the 5th viewing ;-) Everyone sees differently.....so give them variety, and let them fill in the gaps the way they like!
Et Voilia!

:-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 9:08pm EDT
don't play shrinking violet, Kenneth...... no one here bites; well, not too bad.

So do like the Nike thing....go 4 it! If Pat is, u can.....she is trying her hand at something totally new and is brave enough to 'show and tell it.' I'm sure your writing is fine....probably better than ours, btw ;-) OMG, one guy was so quiet; and I asked him to write something......his stuff was brilliant! Its hard to evaluate that, or expose it to 'review', when you've done it all alone.....and those around you aren't into it. Then, we end up minimizing our work. So, Kenneth.....be brave; all will be well...

All you have to remember is that there is only one YOU in the world. YOur view is unique, by virtue of your unique life/experiences....so therefore, anything you do that is true to your true nature/character has got to be original....and also sincere. That plays well....not being forced into something we want to be/project. Just be yourself, in all things, and all will be fine.....

"To thy self be true......." :-)

:-)
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 9:10pm EDT
Ok, Miss Jamie.....I'm working on it.....

Jeez, give her 1500 words in a whirlwind morning and she complains about its length...but asks for more! Women! ;-o
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patrick m. Jul 24, 2007, 9:10pm EDT
I've got to run... keep it up folks.....

:-)
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 9:18pm EDT
Kenneth is already in our first paragraph contest. The one with the piano man.

Patrick, did no one ever tell you I'm a bit, how did Ken put that? Psychodelic? I never do things subtly. My family room has turquoise walls, and the living room is emerald green, accented with tribal art. Just painted the bedroom candy apple red, with black silk curtains (made from sari's. Pretty cool!) OK, ok, I really am off to write!
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Pat S. Jul 24, 2007, 10:20pm EDT
Goodness, where did everyone go? I've got a little over a thousand words now, four pages, one chapter, done. Maybe these people will leave me alone for awhile. Bring it on Ken, I'm ready for you.
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