Is Poor a sign of a lack of Faith?

Wow, Lisa - I am actually shocked that a minister would say that. I am sending you an e-mail.

Dear Linda,

Criticism such as is this, however metaphyscially correct (re: "as a man thinketh in his heart so it is with him."), is clearly inapporpriate and exhibits a distinct lack of compassion for the "Catch-22" that a "fall into a knowledge of good and evil" occassions. Yes, what I thnk about a lot invariably will show up in my life and world. Simplistically speaking, this means if I want to change my world I must change my mind by changing what I think.

However, the problem is how do I think positively in the face of negative circumstances that constantly engage my attention. Yes, that is where faith comes in. But beyond faith (which the mind is a master of subverting), the only permanent answer is to change my identity from "who I think am" (who I have been programmed and conditioned to believe I am) to who I am in Christ/the Mind of God -- the one who can say without any doubt, "God loves me as I Am").

Although, I can't deny the apparent poverty of my present circumstance (which came from previously conditioned thought about myself), I can, however, refuse to entertain it; I can stop thinking and worrying about it, and that by "staying my mind" on what the Bible says I Am in Spirit and Truth instead.

As such, the only permanent way to change my mind is to change my centeral focus from "me, myself and I," to "I as I Am" in Christ, in the Mind of God" (what the Bible says about who I Am). And so allow God's Promises for my Life to manifest outwardly ) (Note: this is not a matter of "me, myself and I" creating anything, but simply accepting and releasing what always already is my Divine Birthright).

In short, I have to get out of my own way (human way of thinking – knowing in part; through a mirror darkly) and into God's Way (where I die to myself as I think and so know directly, "face to face," even as I am know; know myself as I Am in Christ.

"Thinking about a problem only further reinforces your belief in it as ultimately true and real – focus on the Ultimate Truth of You Being as One with God in Christ, and the "outer picture" will change to match the "Inner Truth."

Yours I Am in Christ's Love -- Rich

But are you saying that you cannot follow that which God wants you to do, and be who God wants you to be and still be poor? Wheren't the disciples poor in money, living on the generosity of those around them many times?

Here is the way I'm looking at it. God will provide for you. He did with the disciples when those around them gave them comfort, food and shelter. There was a saying that whom God love he chastens. Look at poor old Job ! That minister who told you such things should examine his own heart and see what pain he has caused. But then again, anyone can become a minister, whereas the true leaders and guides of the church are unfortunately fewer in number. Have faith, do what you know is right and God will protect you. He may not take it easier on you, but He is there cheering you on.

I did ask, and just so you know, I am very focused on what I am doing. For the first time in my life, I feel like God has given me a direction. I hate to break it to you, but God does care. Jesus chose to make the sacrifice, and He did it for us. I have never doubted it either. I have doubted why he would care for me, and if you read one of the poems I submitted to the contest, you will see that feeling. I have grown beyond that feeling. I have learned, and I am still learning and I have more to learn. I know though, that God is very real, and very loving and very misunderstood by many people who would blame him for the evil done by this world, or who would say it proved his disinterest in this world either way. We have been given the freedom of choice. a choice between doing good, and doing evil. We have been given a list of the things, that when followed to the best of a humans abilities, will lead to a world of love, kindness and prosperity for all. But God knew many would not choose that road, and the consequences of that would be disasterous for the rest of us. That is why we have the saviour who Lived and died on the cross for our sins that whosoever will just have FAITH in Jesus, follow him and be saved from your sins. It doesn't mean there will be no more consequences. It just means the eternal consequences are taken away. They have been paid in full. I am so very thankful that mine have been, and that I am on a path that leads me to God. I don't care if this path is poor. I don't care if this path is not covered in diamonds, or gold or even roadside steakhouses. Because I know God is with me on this path, and I will have what I need to eat, and my family will have what we need. Each day, come what will, the Lord will help us work things through, in HIS way, in HIS time, by HIS command. AMEN. But that's me and my Lord and the Kingdom of Heaven's Belief.

beautifully said Lisa!!!

For this I'll refer to Mark 12:41-44

"41: Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42: But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.
43: Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44: They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

If what your minister said was true, then why was Jesus supportive of the widows "pitiful" offering? Why was she not frowned upon because she was impoverished and all her income and savings that she offered was only a very small fraction of what the wealthy were offering.

I disagree with your minister. Jesus himself was not a financially wealthy man.

wow, what a stir!!! It is not in the ten commandment "Though must have Gold" or what not. Am I successful within myself. All the dogma and positive thoughts in this world are not going to remove us from suffering and the spiritual growth that comes with that. When I am not hurting, and I look back, I see that my abiltiy to be compassionate, open, nonjudgemental all came from being put "on the rack' so to speak. Jesus didn't have money. He was also made fun of for hanging out with the wretches in life. I do believe his tongue was in cheek, when he answered the pharasees about the question of living among the low life....that they, the pharasees didn't need help, so he remained with those who did. We all know what he thought of the pharasees, who resemble your minister lisa. I have been in situations where I have been blamed and cursed for not making it better for myself. Noone else saw the doors shut in my face. No one else was living my life, with my perceptions and my opportunities etc. We are in the classroom children, because as children of God, that means we will become Gods. If we don't know evil, and the only way to know it is to be the brunt of it, then we cannot possibly create with compassion and love. So our father is hard on us.
My mother became an atheist after my father died. It made her hideous. ANd to tell your children that there is no God, that there is no reason for living or life, well, that is telling them that they are nothing but a spot on the wall. It's abuse. I don't belielve in Religion, I believe in God. The highest of high. And that we are all connected in this wild ride.

Bradley, as I said, It comes down to choice. At what point Does man get free will if God had never put the tree in the Garden. We would have been slaves of no knowledge. With the knowledge came all things good and evil, which is why death came. The rebellion against following God came, and it brought forth death, and punishment, and that will continue until the time when Jesus returns and sets up his Kingdom on earth. After that time, and the people of earth has made their choice, for good or evil, then judgment will come, and with that will come the judgement of Satan as well, and he too will face his final judgement. Satan is also a creation. He was once the Angel of Light who first rebelled against God. When all things face Judgement, Satan will also. Job is such an inspiration because He glorified God, even when he was not protected by God. It let Job see that his friends were not true also. They did not believe in him when they should have. They were as misled as many people are today, and assumed because somebody was having problems, he must not be following God. He knew he was right with God, and his faith proved him true. God rewarded his faith. If his friends had been true, then he would have been rewarded with a friendshipt that would be worth more than gold or silver. God may have had other reasons which I do not know, and are not clear in scripture, because I am not a college Theology student. I have learned many things, in many places, and I am still learning. Moses went through more than one mistake in his lifetime, and definately more than one in his time with the children of God. Moses was a prophet, a leader, and a great man and he shall be remembered both by the children of God, and by Christians as such for many more generations. Considering his beginings, he had to go against his own traditions to get his own people that he didn't even know released., lead them across a desert, and then set up the law, and the rule, and lead them to the promised land. Because of the rebellion again, he loses his temper, and breaks the sacred writings, no small sin, and I would hardly call it his only sin in his life. He isn't allowed in the promised land. It may seem harsh, but the laws of God had to be harsh, as did many other things, because the times were harsh, life was harsh, and the surroundings were harsh. Any parent adjusts their methods to fit the understanding of their children. I fully believe that is the other purpose of the coming of Christ was to expand the teaching of God, and to enrich the teaching so that the love and goodness could be reached. He knew that the world was growing and changing, and He would no longer need the extreme teachings. The people would begin to understand the consequences of their choices, and see the things their sins lead towards. It is those sins that harm us, it is those sins that cause pain, hurt, anger, disease, hunger, famine, war, and murder. One leads to others, and they all start with CHOICES that WE make. Not God. If he took that choice then everybody would be a slave, not a child of God. Facing consequences is what learning is all about, but people like to blame God when they don't like those consequencse. The temptation is our choice between good and evil. God doesn't make it, and Satan doesn't even make it. Satan rejoices in the choice for evil, and even more when God is blamed, but he can't interfere in that choice, but he can do everything to get others to make the choices, and their choices lead to others choices, and how are their choices going to affect your choice? Regardless of your choice, God still loves you. He always loves us and wants us to see past the evil in the world and realize he is still there, waiting to help anytime we are willing to let him, because it will always be, OUR CHOICE.

Lisa:
Peg Nalita A and Lynn A are urging me to move to a more gentle side. I always am with ladies. No mind because I will answer your question straight up

What is the non-theological definition of "minister"?

Look it up in the dictionary but skip the definition related to the person. I am talking about ACTION what to minister means, what a minister is supposed to do.

Do you need a minister to tell you "You're bad and you should go to hell so go there?"

Lisa, my point is that your minister missed his calling. he should have been a prophet of doom

your minister is serving the right god (for him) and the god he serves is Satan.
Lisa name me ONE time, just one time when our Lord saw somebody sick and he said to them ,

I'm not healing you. you DESERVED it.

I'm not that much up on the Bible but I already know Jesus did not do that. I think it says something like he healed all types of sickness, illness, disease or something like that.

Your minister is POISON, Boo. Run from him like you would run from the devil
Boo, run for your life! I'm serious.

This may duplicate, I haven't read the comments yet.

"Can a person be poor, and undergoing financial hardships and still be following God's Will?"

Was Christ wealthy?

What more "proof" do we need of whether material possessions have jack to do with faith?

No, someone in that story is not right in their faith, but it is not you.

I would be looking for another Minister. Apparently he has never read the story of Job in the Bible. There are many quacks out there only pretending to be deciples of Christ, and he definetly sounds like one.

Lisa, You are the first persom I have said this to other than my friend AnneMarie. Give me their Number!!!! I will definitely tell them what the spirit of true cristainity is about.

God does not cause our pains, our ills, or misfortunes. He lifts us up when we are down. The fact that you can see all your many blessings is all the testiment to faith that there is. Our Father in heaven loves us, He would not have us suffer as you would not have your children suffer. I have had multiple health problems all my life, I have stood at deaths door on many occasions, I have been so poor I couldn't afford to eat but I praise his name ! I haven't always had what I want but I have always had what I needed. My life is a miracle and everyday I live it I will sing it loud. Jesus said "It is harder for a rich man to get to the kingdom of heaven than a camel to get through the eye of a needle. I know it's hard when we go through hard times, I know it's hard when we suffer. But I promise you one day when this day is past, you will praise him for the difficulties and the lessons learned and for lifting you up and placing you back on solid ground. If we have everything, if our lives were pain free, would we understand suffering? We must understand it to be able to pass our gifts on, it what we do. We take the gifts the Lord has given us and we pass them on. I have been given many gifts by my father, I choose to share. Shame on that person who said that terrible thing to you. God Bless you and keep the faith.

God Bless you. Being down doesn't mean your not in tune with Father above. In the bible it states that the poor have found a place in heaven. I guess that Minister just forgot about that for the moment.
I think he was trying to tell you to not worry, have faith in Father instead.

All that keeps running through my head is to read the book of Job. In that book it is pretty clear that despite all the good Job has done he is tested with horrible things in his life to prove his faith is not solely because his life is good. His friends even suggest that he must have sinned because of all that goes wrong in his life (thanks guys!)

If your conscience is clear and you've already asked God to forgive anything in your past...then he has done so and this is not a punishment for those sins. However, sometimes our trials are brought to us to teach us something or to prepare us for a path we can't see at this point in our lives.

It could be that in 10 years you will be able to pass on what you've learned from this hard time to help someone else - and therefore it is for a good purpose. Keep praying and listening for his guidance on how to take actions to heal and to help others around you. Sometimes helping others, no matter how slight, is the best medication for our own ills.

{{{Lisa}}}
I'm sorry to hear you are going thru this rough spot in your life.
Does being poor and having problems to deal with mean you've missed God's will, that you aren't following him??
Gosh no!
If you look at the Bible itself you see how many of the apostles themselves as well as many other Christians struggled.
Life can be hard, it often is. For me, the point is that I don't walk thru it alone, Jesus walks with me and that is a lot. Does he always rescue us? Sometimes he does, often we just walk faithfully in His path and know that we are not alone here.
He does feel our fears, our pains and sometimes deliverance happens.
But that isn't the greatest miracle to me.

I'm sorry you had that run in with that minister.
I think that if this is how he judges whether people are following God this minister wouldn't have thought much of the Apostle Paul who rarely had anything of his own.

How horrible that a minister would tell you this. God never said that our lives would be easy if we followed him. He only said that He would be there to help us through things. He will walk beside us. Don't lose your faith because of one bad run in with a minister.

Just for the record, the minister who said the things leading to this, is not the Sr. pastor, but the Jr pastor at the church where he works. I believe the man has many good things about him, but in this one area, for some reason, he has a strong reason to believe he is right, and that is his right. I just don't agree. I have another article for your comment running in my head at this moment. Maybe it is the continuation, or maybe just the next logical step in this discussion, either way, I hope you will join in, because I really appreciate your input. It is not that I don't Know entirely what I think on the matter. Sometimes, it is a matter that too many times others have not entirely thought about what they think on the matter either. Many times if we are not faced with an issue, even in theory, we don't know what we would think about it. That is one of the reason's I have this room. I want to think about these situations that God has for us. We all may have a time to face a choice like this that we aren't ready for and haven't thought throught through. Do you know for sure what that other person has encountered that wants a cup of coffee? Do you know a food pantry that needs help or is low on supplies? There are many places many people can help without going very far or even taking much time out of there way to do a kindess for them. Money isn't alway the answer. Kindness, love, goodnes and mercy are always Gods answer, don't you think?

OK, let me clarify one think. I am looking for others input. I know how I feel. I know what I have seen, but I am not a minister, and I have not been studying the bible ALL of my life. Somebody may know of something that I do not know, or that I have missed as well. I am not inclined to think that I cannot learn from anyone, because I am hoping to learn from everyone. I firmly believe that God teaches us through many teachers.

Moses was poor, Noah was poor, Jesus was poor, Joseph was poor, George Washington and most of the founding fathers were poor, though they had land.

WOW. I'm shocked that a minister would tell you this. No matter how much faith we have, life throws us obstacles every day. That's part of God's plan for us. God will never give you something that you aren't strong enough to overcome. I think that you should take these opportunities to figure out where to go from here. But, I do not think that just because you are being tested that you are lacking in faith. That's ridiculous to me.

I hope your situation improves and may God continue to bless you and your family!

God only gives us that which we are strong enough to handle. Trials strengthen us in character and in faith.

While examining your outlook on your current position and possibly doing a review of your faith couldn't hurt you any. I am not a fan of the whole "you are punished by a wrathful god for not being a mindless sheep" theory. I am poor in cash, and many say that I am one of the most "Christlike" people they know. I am constantly trying to improve my lot in life, but I don't fret or complain about not having more except to dream about what I could accomplish if I had more. (It's called having dreams and hopes)

God wants you to be happy. Be there trials and tribulation, deity is there for you to hold you up when you stumble, and is by your side to support you during both the good times and the bad.

Mayhaps the preacher who told you this thinks that all of those drug-addicted, drunken movie stars are living as Gos wants them to, and so are being rewarded for their good faith? Pshaw!

Even those who aim to teach the faith can be led astray. We are all only human, and thus, terribly flawed. No matter what anyone says, your relationship with deity is between you and your God, no one else. If you feel you are lacking, then correct the problem.

I don't know about what your minister says, but you have a loving, caring family, and your health is improving slightly. That sure sounds like plenty of blessing to me.

May your blessings multiply.

Lisa remember what Jesus told his disciples in, John 9
1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

No where in the Bible does it say that being poor is a sin. The Bible references poor in many different ways; which doesn't always mean financial sercurity or having earthly materials. A person could be poor in spirit and God can lift these people up if they just ask. As believers we are to reach to the poor and help with whatever their needs are.

Blessings

You see things very clearly in many ways. I have always believed if I had two, and my neighbor had none, then I needed to share with my neighbor. I have always been surprised at the people that have always looked down on me for this. Now I am being condemned for being poor. Go figure. God has always provided for us when we truly needed anything, and I am sure he will continue to do so. The minister at our church insisted if we need anything, to let him know, and he will make sure our needs are met by the church. I will have been off of work for 12 weeks now without pay. We are short, but we have rearranged things to get rid of extras, and we are still only a little behind on some things. Yes we have some not well, but our main needs are met. God will provide, of this I have always known, since He has told us he will never leave us or forsake us. Thank you for your comments.

Okay, Lisa, I admit it, I missed this article and it's probably one of your best. At least one of your most intriguing.

Your minister is wrong.

There's been many people both in the Bible and in modern times that have been financially poor but were used by God because of their Great Faith. Mother Theresa comes to mind. Would your minister had looked her in the eyes and told her she would have more money if only she demonstrated more faith.

I try not to judge individual myself, I much rather prefer leaving that task to God but occasionally I will offer up what I believe about something or someone based on the facts received. In this case, I bet that one of your minister's favorite subject matter for sermons is tithing. Just a guess.

tithing is one of them. How to stay debt free is another. He does have some very good and inspiring sermons, even ones that hit home with me in a way that I knew God was fussing at me. It is not just a matter of feeling indignant because he "stepped on my toes" He makes assumptions, and forgets God has called us to help the poor, and doesn't qualify it with IF WE DEEM THEM WORTHY.

Wow....you really did it here....but it was truly a blessing to see what you brought about with your article!! Thanks for sahring...I hope your good is coming around to cover your bad. Remember we were given a choice....love is much sweeter when it is given freely :)

I understand most of the verses quoted here from different people. Some how I don't embrace what most have said. It reminds me too much of a general misunderstanding of the bible and what was taught. Too often I hear people say things like I'll be glad when He comes and fixes this problem or another. In reality that is against what was taught if we recall God gave us domion here along with the devil. Our duty is to do what He taught and we would reach the kingdom of God. But most of us do not come close to that goal.

That's why it is not surprising what was said to you, Lisa.

how did I end up back in 2007 ? ? ?

what do I usually put in my quotes everyday ? ? ?

Life is what you make it.
I believe in being positive.
Things happen for a reason and negative things that happen make you
stronger.

I think the minister was way off base with his remark.......