Punishment

More than half the schools in the country allow paddling still. In a few states further south, they actually require paddles in every classroom.

Personally, I was educated as a teacher in Minnesota--a very liberal state. I couldn't hit someone else's kid, even if I actually wanted to. I don't know that I could hit my own kids, if I had any either, though.

In 1981 I got paddled in 11th grade because I got caught skipping a class. I was sent straight to "Duke"the swimming coach who had the biggest paddle.
I had to bend over the desk and get 2 or 3 swats from the paddle.
I feared getting paddled again and didn't skip after that.

I totally agree with it IF and I say IF the paddler and the teachers who issue the punishment are fair. I have found that now a days....it is all "who you know or are"in schools. If you are the child of a prominent rich daddy or mommy, you get away with much more than if you are a not so rich or not so popular child.

I am sure that teachers and school leaders would have to come off their "high horse"and get real and treat all people fairly for it to work.

Back when I was in school...it didn't matter who's child you were...if you were bad, you were bad and got punished just the same.

No comment on the punishing. But your actions and comments were distasteful, deplorable and worthy of some punishment. And apparently your parents weren't do anything to help you grow up intelligently.

Okay, you asked.

You called another kid a vulgar name. You received what was, at the time, deemed appropriate punishment. Your mother raised Cain. You got moved away from the teacher who took you to task for your bad behavior. It sounds like you still don't think you did anything wrong. I see a connection.

The other child's behavior is immaterial. Your behavior was bad, and your mother objected to the teacher's attempt to correct it. When two wrongs start making a right, I'm outta here. The only behavior we control is our own. The point of disciplining children is to teach them to control themselves. Parents who withhold the right to discipline their children from schools ought not be allowed to have their children in the schools.

As for corporal punishment, it is so rarely practiced in public schools (or homes) these days that it is a non-issue. When I was in school, teachers gave a rap on the hand with a ruler, or pulled your hair. As we got older, they went to assigning detention. The point is that the teachers had the right to maintain order and civility in the classrooms and they exercised it. As a result, most of us learned to read, write, and do arithmetic at a functional level. No one ever brought a gun to school. It was never impossible to do our lessons because of interference from other students.

Hitting children is just wrong wrong wrong...it doesn't get the effect you want.
I grew up being thrown into walls, hit with fists and whipped with a belt. All I learned was to keep quiet and that I wasn't lovable. Is it any wonder that so many adults seek out therapy to address the horrors of their childhood when brought up in an alcoholic abusive household? Fortunately I was never hit at school. I have 4 children and I have found that there are better ways to handle things than to flip out and give out beatings. Positive reinforcement is a better focus. Restrictions and time out works so much better.
Corporal punishment....no

Samantha - I didn't realize that paddling was still permitted in todays schools! I would imagine that you probably feel like killing some of those kids sometimes and forget the paddling. But there must be consent from the parents first and foremost in my opinion and I also believe that parents should be present when they are paddled or at least called before this goes on.

Tracey- I can't believe at your age you were given paddlings. I think that goes beyond, way beyond what one would expect to happen to teenagers. I believe that a more appropriate form of punishment would have been warranted.

Thanks for posting!

Jeff - I do believe that children should get punished for misbehaving but hardly believe that calling someone a "fag" would warrant a paddling. My parents did not raise us whipping us, spanking us or paddling us. They didn't use corporal punishment at all! We grew up well adjusted, well behaved, well educated, and all are professionals with no problems. I could have been injured by that teacher that chose to paddle me without my parents permission. What do we say to that? I do not believe in corporal punishment in the schools. If a kid can tell their parents that they will call the police if they are spanked, then where is the justice in a teacher being given rights that parents no longer have? Please give me your answer to this.

Joe - I find your comment regarding my paddling rather deplorable as well. Where did this comment come from? I thought we were friends. And then for you to insult my intelligence and further to insult my parents is deplorable and ignorant to say the very least. I don't believe that you would say this to me. Even if we are friends I would expect you to be honest but I believe you have stepped beyond the line.
Thank you for commenting.

I feel very strongly that this should not be allowed in our school systems. There are just too many unknown possible variables.

Who is to decide the spanking and for what "crimes" should it be allowed. Who gets to deem that the "crime" committed was in fact actually done. Who gets to do the spanking and how does one insure that abuse is not going to take place.

Take the example of my 8 year old son this last year in 2nd grade. The school is a "No-Tolerance" school meaning that they will not permit any type of "bad" behavior and will punish (no spankings).

Nearing the end of the school year, one of the little girls in my sons class went crying to the teacher that my son threatened to punch her. She behaved as if she was very frightened of my son.

My son was accused, he denied it. He was punished at school then received a punishment from his Father. We very much teach our sons that hitting is wrong, but especially girls.... you NEVER EVER hit a girl!

Well, that evening my daughter admitted that she had earlier that day told my son that the little girl (lets call her Anne) didn't like him and had said mean things about him.

Fast forward to that afternoon recess.. Anne wanted to play with my son. My son having hurt feelings due to what his sister told him (all a lie), he told her to go away.

Well my sons step-mom marches my son over to Anne's house (she lives a couple of houses away). Anne admits that her feelings were hurt when my son told her to go away, so she made the entire thing up and told the teach the lie to get him into trouble.

Now what if this had been a school that allowed spanking. I'd think that threatening to punch a little girl might be an offense some teacher would consider severe enough to warrant a spanking. Obviously the teacher believed Anne's lie.

This type of punishment should be left to the parents and only the parents.

Hi, as a teacher, the idea of paddling a child never ever crossed my mind and I taught grades from second to ninth. There were always so many better ways to handle situations. My view was that seldom did it not take 'two to tangle'. In a situation such as yours, I would have removed both of you and with the two of you looking at one another, made both of you admit to what you could take responsiblity for without any "but" or "Yeah, but". After a couple of tries from both of you to avoid having to take responsibility for your own actions an appropriate discipline would be applied to both. If I was in the classroom and couldn't take time to do this-both were assigned to separate desks and the question "What can you take responsiblity for?" was on the top of the paper. The same results usually occurred, it just took a little longer. Before Thanksgiving, my students would be doing this automatically if an upset occurred. There were times when I would send them to the hall to talk it out. If it was a case of upsetting the classroom--they were sent out to write, write, write. I didn't care what and the student was never scolded for what was written--althought it was often discussed during study hall or recess with the younger students.

My principal did have a paddle in his office, but I only know of once in the fourteen years I was in that school that he used it and that was with contact and permission by the parents and a witness in the office with him and the student.

Growing up in the days that I grew up [40's and 50's] my parents always backed our teacher [at least in front of us they did] and we often got twice at home what we got in school.

And, just one more thought on this, I believe that emotional and verbal humiliation is much worse that a paddling [done properly] leaves longer and deeper wounds than anything else. Just my thoughts dorry

Ok, shame on me. I'm not against spankings in some cases.

But, now a days we don't spank, we just put them on drugs like Ritalin.

Ann - And I'll bet that you are for the death penalty too.

Did I miss something? Do I know you? It is so easy to pass judgement based upon ones personal upbringing. I was raised in a very intelligent home where whips, paddles and belts were not necessary to make a point. We were talked to not at. We were raised treated with respect and grew up that way. I hardly think that calling someone a "fag" was worthy of the paddling I received. I find you being unfair in your comment and judgement.
I will not continue to persue this issue with you.
Thanks for posting and hopefully our differences in opinion will not cause any further friction.

Heather - I agree with you on the not hitting children part. I am so sorry for you that you had to endure the type of discipline that you received while growing up. You're right, do you know how many mass murderers I have read about that were punished corporally? You should read the book called "Mass Murderers of the 20th Century". I agree with you about there being other ways to punish children without having to resort to hitting, beating, whipping and whatever other name you want to call it.
Thanks for posting.

Geesh, Esther, this is the second time in this thread that you've gotten all bent out of shape because someone didn't agree with you.

"I will not persue this issue with you."

Fine. If you don't want to hear what people have to say, why post this? If you only want to hear from people who agree with you then stay off the internet and talk to yourself.

Simon - the raising of the eyebrow or a certain look is all my parents had to do to let us know that we were out of line or getting there. No need for corporal punishment in my humble opinion.
Thanks for posting!

I don't believe in corporal punishment period, even from parents. But schools absolutely have no right to inflict pain on a child's body. It teaches the child nothing positive and only makes it seem okay to control another physically, and it foments bitterness and revenge. I don't think it's allowed any more, is it?

DW - Too bad you were punished the way you were but defacing property is far worse than calling someone a "fag"...there are other ways to skin a cat is all I can say.
Thanks for posting!

Melanie - I am in full accord with you. I don't believe that threatening to hit someone warrants getting a paddling. Come on now, these are children and there are more ways to punish children. I agree with you also on the fact that this type of discipline should best be left to the parents. All of your points are valid and good.
Thanks for your post!

I think that the mass murders in the book you mentioned would have turned out to be mass murders whether or not they had been subjected to corporal punishment of not.

AND, for all we know, how many mass murders might have been stopped by getting spanked when they were younger? Ever thought of that? How many of them didn't get spanked but were totally indulged and spoiled? How many of them are seeking sympathy and weren't really spanked or beaten?

Dorry - I was being called all types of b's and wh***'s and I called her a "fag". No ma'm I don't believe the action I took justified the punishment and at least not without my parents permission to do so.
Thanks for the post!

Jeff - I take it that your opinion and mine are pretty clear on this issue. Enough said.
Gracias Amigo on your posts!

Lera - I hardly think that Ritalin is the answer either. Why can't we punish our children in other ways other than having to resort to spanking or beating or paddling them. There are so many other forms of discipline out there. Take away something that they like for instance, give the kids at school class after school or detention. Paddling and spanking and beating are not the answer to todays problems.

Lera - I didn't get bent out of shape about anything. I just wanted to make it perfectly clear where I stood. I posted this article because I wanted honesty. I didn't post it so everyone could agree with me. You have misunderstood. The fact that I said what I said to Ann was because of the way SHE spoke to me and insulted me. You didn't see or read anywhere that I insulted anyone here. I simply made a point. As far as my going elsewhere, I hardly doubt it. I much prefer talking to and with people that have minds of their own and are willing to debate an issue rather than resort to name calling or insulting someone because they have a different opinion. You see, I have come a long way since 4th grade.
Thanks for posting.

Olga - I agree with you. I don't think that corporal punishment should be used by anyone. The effects of such only bring about worse behaviors.
And yes, I believe that corporal punishment is still used in some place in this nation, can't you tell by reading this thread?
Thanks alot for posting!

I was a high school teacher for 10 years in California. I quit nearly 6 years ago, partly because the school system is so broken. I wish all it had taken was the lift of an eyebrow, and actually with certain kids, that is all it took. But, not with everyone. No matter how difficult/horrible a kid was/is, I believe it is NEVER okay to hit a kid. I know it has been outlawed in CA for quite some time (and am shocked to hear that it is allowable in some other states).

I believe that when a kid is acting out, he/she is asking for help. Often their acting out can be so awful that the last thing you want to do is help them. But that is part of what the teaching profession is about. The school system is so beholden to everyone that they don't know what to do when a kid acts out now. The administrators are so afraid of law suits that they mostly allow kids to do what they want and do not provide help to teachers who have unruly kids in the class room. When you have a classroom of 35-45 you can't give a student the individual attention they need when they misbehave. I would have to give 10 referrals at the high school I taught at before they would call the kid in to discuss the problem with them. I had to document that how many times I contacted the parents, the nature of the conversations, how I had worked with the school counselor, how I had adapted the curriculum to address the kids problems (and often the problem wasn't the academics) and the alternative teaching modalities I had employed. By the time I could get help for the student it would be May! Ridiculous!

Believe me, there were lots of times I would have loved to have had a good swift solution and a spanking seemed like it would do the trick. (Kids calling me names I can't repeat here, kids punching other kids in class, kids cheating, coming to class unprepared, etc. etc.) It sounds like chaos, doesn't it? You'd be amazed at how adept you get at handling things quickly so it doesn't go into chaos, but the point is, it was very, very difficult to get help not only with the discipline as a teacher, but for the kid. I taught in a normal, suburban, low crime, city and yet I had kids with learning disabilities, advanced placement, in gangs, second language learners, etc (due to the heterogeneous policy of the times - 1992-2002). I made all kinds of curriculum adaptations for my students.

School discipline is a complex issue. In my opinion, we have swung too far the other way. Teachers are afraid to discipline their students because of the power students know they have (I could tell you stories), because of the fear of the administration of litigation (reasonable fears), and because of the tremendous amount of effort it takes on behalf of one student with little help in return. After writing up 10 referrals on a problem student, I would have to explain myself to the principal, not the student! You learn to survive (send the kid on an errand across campus to get them out of your classroom).

No, it is never okay to hit a kid, AND it is also not okay to ignore problem behaviors.

Kimberly - Thanks for a very informative response. I can only imagine what you must have gone through let alone what someone in an inner city school must have to endure...
Thanks for posting!

Oh boy is this one controversial or what?!!

In my own opinion, I do not and never have believed that teachers should have the right to use corporal punishment. I didn't hit my own children, and if I was aware that a school my children attended allowed it, they were informed in writing that they did NOT have the authority to do so. If they ignored me and were to use it anyway, then I would seek legal recourse against the teacher, the school, and the department of education.
Now before those of you who agree with corporal punishment jump to the conclusion that I don't think teachers have the right to punish their students, allow me to clarify.
First, my children were straight A students, and raised with very high behavioral standards. They were well aware that any other form of punishment would be supported IF the teacher was being fair and they had indeed done something warranting punishment.

I did say I did not hit my kids, and did not believe in doing so, but they were raised WITH discipline. They were well aware that inapppropriate behavior in school or anywhere else would NOT be tolerated, and there would be severe consequences for it. Two of them are grown now, one is married and has a new baby of her own, another is engaged to be married, they are both over 25, and are very fine, responsible adults.

I don't believe corporal punishment has a place in schools, butam not saying some children don't need it. What I am saying is that discipline should be started at an early age and AT HOME. Children today have an entitlement attitude that is beyond all reason to me. That attitude is ingrained in them AT HOME!! If you ask me, the parents should be the ones receiving corporal punishment. Teachers should not be expected to do in school, what parents refuse to do at home.

Too often children are "labeled" with ADD or ADHD, and Ritalin or some other behavior modification drug is prescribed, for no other reason than that the parents couldn't be bothered with parenting in the first place. They have the kids, tell them they are ENTITLED to whatever they want, and the rest of society owes it to them. When I was in school, if you tried out and didn't make the team that was it. You worked harder and maybe next time you would succeed. Not in todays world. Parents will actually sue if their little Johnny or Suzie doesn't get on the team, even if they CAN'T do it. If you failed a grade, you were held back PERIOD! Today, it's the teachers fault, the schools fault, societies fault, so just pass the kid. If they don't again the parents will sue, or they claim their child was unfairly treated and it's everyone elses fault. The fact that your kid didn't do his homework, schoolwork, pay attention in class, or was just plain disruptive is NOT the parents fault!!!
No one wants to accept responsibility for their OWN actions anymore. Parents are raising children with the attitude that they shouldn't have to work for or contribute in any way, to their own future. The ENTITLEMENT attitude!!!

DW - I guess all of the years that my parents didn't spank me makes me request it from my mate and prior lovers...maybe I really liked it when my teacher spanked me??
As for the swearing, I have learned to use some mighty big ones since the "fag" word. I swear (ha) that I could make a sailor cry sometimes...
Thanks for not getting pist about my remark, it was just my opinion and you know what opinions are like...
Thanks for posting!

Esther, the crime you did, did not merit the punishment. I can't believe the comments you are getting. When you hit a child you are teaching him to hit. To break the pattern is not easy. I found that I would say, I feel like hitting you but I won't. I would never want to do what was done to me.

One cannot go around in life thinking hitting people is as solution. Look at road rage. Recently a 81 year old man was beat up by a man wanting to steal his car and it was video taped on a security camera while a crowd of people ignored what was happening.

I can't say whether or not your punishment was deserved or not, but I do agree with corporal punishment. I don't think spankings should be used in every wrong doing by a child, but some things warrant a swat on the behind. There is a clear difference between spanking a child and beating a child. I have 2 boys and spanking works with one of them but not with the other. I truly believe it has to do with the child and the circumstance. I plan on homeschooling my children so I don't have much of an opinion on corporal punishment in the schools, but I do know that some children are very disruptive in class because they know that the teacher has no real form of discipline for them. I will continue to use corporal punishment when it is needed.

Anne - My parents were exactly the way you were. I just do not believe that children should be hit by anyone. The law here in Texas says you can not spank your child. All a kid has to do is to call the police and tell them that they are being abused and off you go to jail. No ands, ifs, or buts. The judicial system has taken the rights from the parents who should be responsible for disciplining their children. Not the teachers or educators.
My opinion is clear on this issue - No corporal punishment in our schools!
Thanks for a great post!

DW - If you don't think pist is a word then I suggest you read the book called "The Rape of the Ape" and find out how many other words aren't what we think they are. I guess breaking the habit of using a non word is better than using words that would be far worse words.
Thanks again.

Heather - thanks for being there for me. I know what I said did not warrant the punishment I received and instead has left me with an indelible scar in my mind. What a sad thing to have to endure and for what? No corporal punishment period!
Thanks for posting!

My children are well behaved and my oldest is 33. I stand by what I said. You don't own your children. They are in your care, but they are gifts from God. If a husband hits his wife, his sons are more likely to hit their wives. Children learn from their parents. When you hit them and they see that you are angry, when they are angry they will lash out. Bullies come from Bullies! Oh, how brave it is to smack a child smaller than you, how admirable to scare the h*ll out of a kid.(SARCASM) My children love me, not fear me. Would you hit an animal? Probably not, but you'll hit your child. That's so sad.

Andrea - Thanks for the diplomatic opine on my punishment in the fourth grade. I believe that whether you spank your children or not is ones personal preference. I personally don't believe in it but, that doesn't make me wrong either. I have seen a swift swat on the britches of some children when they start to misbehave and more than anything it hurts their feelings. Like you say some need it. Others on the other hand don't get that swat on the britches they get beat where it becomes abuse and that I believe is the worst thing of all. I've seen it being done and believe me were I to see it these days, I'd promptly call the police.
Thanks for your comments!

DW - I do believe that the follow through is key in alot of things but that still does not change my mind. I DO BELIEVE YOU when you say that your children are well behaved!!
Thanks!

DW - spewment as in garbage flowing from ones mouth? Clever, very clever. You should know better than anyone how much of that there is on this site...(meaning you have been here alot longer than I have).
Thanks again.

DW - As for your thinking that I was just being lazy (thats what you get for thinking), regarding the word "pist" I take it? No I wasn't being lazy, I was just using a word to describe something that alot of people know to make a point. Word or non word you got the point right?
Later gator.

Gee, Devil woman, why would you think I meant you?

DW - I don't know what you are referring to?? Thanks for calling me dramatic...I've always thought of myself as somewhat of a drama queen. And if you rarely get my point then why did you come to my post and why have we been playing this little game of yours. Could be only particularly exceptional minds comprehend exceptional minds and possibly thats why you rarely understand me - kind of like your poetry that I rarely understand huh?
By the way thanks for all of the comments - been point whoring today!!

I'm not going to read any of the other comments until after I respond to this.

We moved to the DFW area when our oldest daughter was in 4th grade and our youngest was in 1st. They were sent home the first day with a note requesting our signatures to okay corporal punishment. We WOULDN'T sign. The next day and more STERN note was sent home almost demanding that we sign it. We refused. I sent a note with our oldest stating that if there was a problem LARGE enough to deserve any kind we'd take care of it at home.

That being said, We are firm believers in punishment that fits the 'crime'. They were not above getting a swat on the butt if they deserved that but most of the time they were punished by writing 'I will not...', grounded, or privledges taken away from them. A talking to by DADDY was the worst punishment of all. These were excellent little girls (onry at times) and never had a problem in school. I was not allowing a stranger basically to spank my children with what they call the 'BOARD OF EDUCATION'. That board, which was shown to me by the way, was a long slender paddle about 4" wide with holes drilled in it. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.

Again, we were sent a letter saying we MUST sign the permission slip. I called the school and asked to talk to the principal. He asked me, 'if the permission slip wasn't signed how could we expect our girls to behave and respect not only the teachers but him.' I said, "If you HIT or BEAT them with that paddle, how do you expect us to allow you to live til the next morning?" "YOU WILL NOT BEAT OUR CHILDREN WITH YOUR PADDLE, PERIOD!"

I also stated to him that if our girls came to school one day and said I spanked with a paddle he would turn me in for child abuse. He just shook his head, yes.

We were then accused of bringing our NORTHERN ATTITUDES to Texas. "I calmly told him that we didn't hit our kids with anything and certainly didn't expect them to either." He said, "Are you going to sign the permission slip or not?" HELLO, was he not listening?

We did not sign the permission slip. Our girls were never called to the office EVER in both their 13 years of schooling in Texas and Wisconsin. They were both excellent students and never got beat by a stick.

No, I don't believe in corporal punishment in the schools. I believe in punishment, of course, but spankings (especially with a paddle) is uncalled for.

Now, I'm going back to read the rest of the comments. Sorry that I wrote a book but this is a sore subject with me.

DW, it was a statement in general. How would I know if you had an animal......
I did not mean it to be directed at you but if you want to take it that way that's up to you. If it was for you I would have put DW at the beginning of the comment. I am talking about hitting a child as the main means of discipline. You said you only did it once. That's not a bad record. I am talking about repeated acts.

Jeff - As always your comments are welcomed and worthwhile! Thanks again for being there for me.
Have a good one!

Hey Esther, how about we go get a cup of coffee? I think I'm done here!

Kathline - You are absolutely right about everything you said. I agree wholeheartedly. Congratulations on the impending adoption of your baby, or will it be a baby? And what sex will the baby be? It all sounds so exciting!!
Thanks for posting!

DW, maybe you should take a midol. I think you are looking for a fight...

Lynn - I agree 100% with you!! There should be no need for corporal punishment ever let alone in the schools. That is the parents job not the educators.
Thanks for your comments.

DW - Are you done with all of the spewment yet??

Thanks for the comments, always appreciated.

Ha Ha Ha Ha You are so funny, DW.

Heather - How about I treat you to a chai latte and have us some donuts from Krispy Kreme, hey Jeff you and Kathline coming too??

Sure, let me grab my car keys, I'll be right over....

DW - Don't misunderstand me I get "riled" with all of the spewment from everyone, not just you you lucky lady you! I know how popular you are and must say I appreciate you getting all of your friends together to comment on my article. Guess I'll just have to bring you a latte and some donuts too for being so good to me.
By the way - Have you heard about the Presidency position being open here at Gather? I think you should get yourself together and run for the position. Two of the people running are TJ and Randy...between you and me girlfriend you've got it going on...:0)

Corporal punishment is not effective. In fact, the Southern states that tend to favor it tend to have the highest crime rates, and also have the highest incarceration rates AND -- guess what -- also have capital punishment. Gee, what did little Johnny learn from being paddled?

Heather, Kathline and Jeff - Lets go! The engines running and the air conditionings cooling, gotta go while the donuts are still hot!!

Elizabeth - Thank you for an informative comment. You're right absolutely. What does corporal punishment get you - crime and disfunction just to name a couple.
Thanks for the comments.

Kathline - you called it first, you've got it!!

no hitting the kiddies- that is the parents' jobs

DW - I know you're just razzin me and I like it. Thats why I flock to your articles because I just love controversy and sarcasm. Couldn't you tell?? Oh yeah, plus I love the abuse, just thrive on it...lol!!

Donna - I agree with you 100%!!
Thanks for the comment!

DW - before I forget silly nilly, you don't have to walk around to be the President of Gather on site. Get with the program girlfriend! By the way, did you break that foot kicking some dog? LOL!!
Thanks for the comments!

pound the little beggars.. they pounded me and I turned out ok..

uh.. welll sorta.

Lloyd - are you sure you turned out all right? Just say no to corporal punishment!

Thanks for the comment!

DW - you're definately a riot...just waiting to happen! LOL!!

Come on girlie lets get some more spewment out need just a few more comments to make the 100...quite a feat for someone you can't understand huh DW??

DW - I guess after this thread I'm too tired to fight the feeling any longer, you can spank me whenever you're ready...my panties are down, uh, I meant shorts are down - don't wear the other...

What is the point anyway?

I don't agree with corporal punishment and it is actually illegal here in canada.

Carol thanks for the comment which I believe to be the best for all involved. Its great to see that Canada too is ahead of the game in this issue.

Oh, well excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me DW. Sorry for the misunderstanding - I thought you were going to spank me, EVS.

Denny - I understand where you are coming from and don't judge people for what they believe in. I just happen to be one of those people that thinks otherwise. No harm done, no cause for alarm. We are all entitled to our own opinions. All of my reasons have already been stated. Thanks for your comments!

Peter - I think that what you may have needed then was a spanking...ha!ha! Just joking. Thanks for the comments.

I wasn't wacked enough. Paddling in school was really a deterrent for bad behavior in school for me. I knew it was on the table if I acted up. When it comes down to it "reasoning " with negative, dangerous, disruptive immature behavior is ineffective and does not earn the respect and yes fear that is due a civilized social structure. Be it a family, the back bone of our social order, or the neighborhood in general.

I got spanked if I smarted off or disobeyed direct orders. It didn't make me "hate" anyone or take it out on someone else. Quite the contrary. Love my folks, respect my folks. I tested the boundaries. Fortunately, there were some.

When I complained to my parents about getting a paddling at School, I soon got another one at home.

That was in the 1970's. School shootings were unheard of back in those days. Nowadays, corporate punishment is banned in most Schools and if a parent paddles their child at home, that is considered child abuse. Now we have School shootings left and right. Do the math.

Peter - Thanks for coming back and giving a "real" post! You are absolutely right about the verbal abuse being sometimes more destructive or damaging. Doesn't really fit with the old saying of "sticks and stones will break my bones but, words will never hurt me". I think all in all things have gotten out of control. In one aspect I believe that punishment should begin at home and no I still do not agree with corporal punishment in schools. There must be other ways to punish our young into compliance.

Thanks for your post!

James - You are absolutely right! Corporal punishment has been around for ever and in some places here in the United States will remain forever it seems. Just say NO to corporal punishment!

Thanks for your post!

Timothy- I understand in punishment but just not corporal punishment in our schools. There are other alternatives for punishment in our schools today. I think these methods of discipline are archaic to say the least.
So you think if the kids who go around killing people at the schools wouldn't have done so if they had gotten a paddling? I hardly think so. Those people have problems that lie far deeper and more sinester than that.

Thanks for your post!

James - Will read "Broomstick Bazooka" ASAP! But, I don't want to sound dumb or anything but what is a "Knucklehead bench"? Is it just a bench where misbehaved chldren are sent to sit at in order to be humiliated? Hmm....sounds like a much better deterrant and more civil way to discipline.

Thanks for your post!

I think they should have given you detention.

Corporal punishment is bad.

I didnt say wrong.

I cannot truly say what is right or wrong for anyone but me, and of course I guide my children.

They should have given you detention or sentences.

Esther, dont trip on people judging you, people do that.

People who dont understand.

POW - Thanks for your comments and your advice...which I might add is well very well taken.

I know I shouldn't sweat the "little things" but I guess deep down I am the sensitive kind.

People kill what they do not understand...(or whom)

Ester, the Knucklehead bench was outside beyond the chain link surrounding the swimming pool area during the summer. Kids who blatantly broke the pool rules (most usually doing a cannonball dive) were given the choice of getting kicked out for the day, or sitting on the bench for a specified amount of time, usually a rotation of the lifeguards.
Public humiliation really wasn't tolerated, but it consisted of kids still in the pool area jeering at the knuckleheads when the life guard was looking the other way.
Too much jeering and you ended up on the bench too!
Sort of a 1960's version of a time out. . .On public display.
Nobody really 'knuckled' the kids heads on the way out to the bench, but that was the implied threat, I guess.
But a few in the readers group got all huffy. Silly. They didn't like the part in another story of mine where some boy scouts jeer at the odd duck among them and the scoutmaster doesn't interfere. oh well. Write what you know!

Ok I am going to wade in on this ... I am from Mississippi ... I worked in a school system for 6yrs, everyday contact with students ... we paddled but only with another adult present and only after exausting all other forms of punishment ... there are children that unfortunately that you have to take to task with a paddling when NOTHING else works ... Parents were called the child was allowed to speak with the parent before the punishment was administered ... There are times when "OTHER" forms of punishment cease to work ... in the present day and age kids don't care if you take things and priviledges away ... time out is just time to rest ... sending to their rooms (at home) is a joke ... so yes I believe in paddling BUT this said my son was always allowed to give his side and we discussed his behavior and why he was being punished ... usually foul language was not a paddling offense unless it was a repeated violation.

I went to Catholic school in the 60s and 70s and the nuns beat the ever-loving sh*t out of me.

That being said, I would never want that for my kids.

In Pennsylvania, some schoold districts have paddling policies, but all require parental permission. If you don't want your child subject to paddling, you don't sign the release form.

While most teachers and administrators are intelligent and open-minded, I have seen first hand and through my kids how vindictive and childish a teacher can be.

It's up to the parents to discipline the child. If the parents don't do their part and the child is incessantly disruptive, the child should be removed from the school or turned over to other authorities.

School is a place for learning, not intimidation.

Not really got anything to add to the conversation. Just wanted to let you know I read it.

I know I decided I wanted to bring up my kids without smacking them, but found I did smack the hand that reached for the hot stove before it reached it. And I know my parents found teaching became much harder when they had to be afraid that every negative action might be misconstrued. My instinct is no spanking, but treat the teachers like people too. Some hot stoves might be kids about to incite a riot.

In California, a staff member or teacher in my son's former special education classroom can restrain a child who would hurt themselves or another, but they cannot strike or hit a child. Period! End of quote! Don't even think about it or you'll be sued!

I was punished with a belt and a hairbrush and pulled hair and thrown again too many walls to count. What did that teach a chile ? It teaches a child to feel unloved. It teaches how to have a low a self esteem. It teaches hate. It teaches fear. It teaches how to be scared and how to walk on eggshells. It teaches how to parent our own kids.

Never did it teach me the multiplication tables. Never did it teach me to respect my elders. It didn't teach me to do what I was told it should. It did teach me how to run away from home! It did teach me to treat my first boyfriend the same way. I'm sorry R.! I now know better! I now know how to love. I'm sorry I had a warped sense of love back then.

James - Thanks for taking the time out to answer my question about the knucklehead bench. I believe in that bench over corporal punishment anyday!

Thanks for sharing!

Sheryl - I thank you for your comments. The other girl was like a teachers pet and the teacher knew what she was like but always chose to look the other way. This teacher didn't like me because I was a military dependent and my dad had just gotten back from Viet Nam at the time. I was a good, smart and well mannered kid. Thoughts of that occurence made me rebel later on in my life!!

Your suggestions for different courses of action against the children that misbehave are good but would only be looked upon as child abuse wouldn't you think?

Thanks for your comments!

Katherine - It appears to me that your form of castigation is far different than a beating which I have been a witness to. In the privacy of your own home is your thing - as long as it does not become abuse. But in the schools I am adamantly against any corporal punishment...whatsoever and under no circumstances. Extra homework, loss of priveledges, extra tests, detention, no extra curricular activities, etc...there are many, many ways to punish children within the boundaries of no abuse and no corporal punishment!

Thanks for your comments!

Dan - I am Catholic but never went to a parochial school. I guess I was lucky from hearing from you and many others how the nuns spank you...I don't understand the reasoning on this. Whenever I've seen a nun I've always looked at them with some respect and reverence, sure will make me look at them different at Mass on Sunday.

Its interesting to hear that Pennsylvania still has this law on the books and is as strict as Texas on this topic.

Thank you for your comments!

Sheila - Thank you for your comments!

Debi - I like the fact about restraint in the classroom to prevent violence from occurring within the classrooms.

I am sorry that you had to endure the type of punishments that your parents found appropriate for them. As they say sometimes, parents do not become parents with a guidebook to show them how to be parents so they sometimes resort to what they know - the way they were raised. Sad but true. You're right about this type of beating does make some afraid, rebellious and alot of other things afore mentioned in this article.

Thanks for commenting and sharing!

Rodney - I am glad that you chose to comment on this issue. I am sorry that you had to endure the abuse that you did while growing up. I believe that what you suffered at the hands of your father was not simple discipline but abuse. It is a shame that some people can not control their tempers. We are all but flesh and blood and to be beat is not fair for anyone involved. I am sorry but I do not agree with the type of punishment meted out by your father. You're right, not all children respond to discipline the same way. I am glad that you chose not to discipline your children the way your father showed you and I am glad that his behaviour did not destroy you.

Thanks again.

Wow! I'm not completely against spanking, but we also didn't do it very often. We homeschooled our son and nearly every adult who came into contact with him remarked on his polite behaviour.

Esther ... You are missing my point on the school spankings ... When you have exhausted all those options you mentioned and any other that comes to mind then what? Do you keep doing the same things hoping they stick ... Unless you can come up with a deterant for these REPEAT offenders (and most of them are) you have to spank ... you cannot allow these students to always be a disruption in the classroom ... I am NOT advocating beating a child ... I am simply stating that when all options available don't work then you have to spank ... the max is and has always been 3 swats ... you only got 3 if you were hurting another child or striking an adult (tho seldom given the 3 swats usually suspended for 3 days in this case) ... one swat was usually all the child needed to get their attention and they usually settled down ... Every teacher that I have ever witnessed administering the spank has always talked to the child first and explained what it was for and afterwards the child would be asked to please control the behavior so that this would never have to occur again ... sometimes you never had to do the swat but the one time and the child realized that what he/she was allowed to get away with at home was not allowed at school.

Susan - I like your way of thinking, thanks for your comments.

Katherine - I do understand where you are coming from and respect you for your opinions. I realize that there are alot of children in the world today who get no discipline at home for whatever reason. Possibly because their parents are always working, one parent homes, children of divorce, and any number of other reasons. The fact that these children are incorrigible is not our fault nor gives educators the right to feel that they can correct the wrongs of society on our young. That I choose to accept corporal punishment for our young is not the issue that it is done is. I do not believe that we need to take on that responsiblity nor the burden. There are too many factors to consider. What if you injure a child during a paddling, then what? A lawsuit and all types of other problems that could have been avoided. As I have said many times before throughout this thread I believe that there are much better alternatives suited for discipline within our schools without resorting to spanking our children.

Thank you very much for your time and understanding.