LEFT OF THE RIGHT: I.N.S. Mistakenly Deports U.S. Citizen, Double Standard Deadly to Some.

very scary..as an immigrant i am alarmed!!..can that don't ask policy of INS be changed..?

I think that was Kennedy's plan.

I think this was detailed in Cheech Marin's movie "Born in East LA"... in the 80's

Amnesty is not the answer. By definition illegal aliens are breaking the law. There is a process to come to the US. This country was built on the backs of immigrants. If we have a system in place for bringing in immigrants we should stick by that process. We shouldn't turn a blind eye to the illegals that are here. This amnesty is a slap in the face to all of the people that came here legally.
As for Ted Kennedy: He is the poster boy of double standards. Chappaquiddick. Nothing like leaving your girlfriend to drown and running back to your hotel room so as not to ruin your political career.

Interesting and frightening.

First of all - the "cut, cut, cut" philosophy of the Republicon party applies to taxes and not spending (except when it helps people in need or for domestic programs in any district other than their own). One look at spending in the last seven years should make that alarmingly clear.

Second, all people in this country are protected by the US Constitution whether they are citizens or not . . . so I am not sure about the incidents you cite. I'm sure there have been incidents . . . but due process may be defined differently since a Federal agancy did review this and make a decision.

James: I gather you are speaking now for all legal immigrants? I know more than a few legal immigrants who support amnesty.

The Ted Kennedy crack is absurd and shows a repetition of a VERY tired old line your like-minded idealogues like to spout off without some much as a thought.

"Nothing like leaving your girlfriend to drown and running back to your hotel room so as not to ruin your political career. "

Yeah. Brilliant. That really (I mean REALLY) helped his career, now didn't it? And how is that a double standard anyway? By your own flawed logic, he is supporting illegal immigrants and flaunting the law. Now it might be considered a double standard if he wanted to enforce the law for them but not for himself . . . but that's not the case, now is it?

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

So James,
What do you think we should do, round them all up, all 12 million of them. Not even the most conservative Republicans believe that is an option.

Doyle C.,
I didn't cite the incidents, US Senators did and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have gone on the record without being able to prove it. Due process is reserved for citizens only here in the US, and with the Patriot Act, even we citizens are in danger.

When I hear "Amnesty is / is not the answer" I wonder exactly what definition of the word "amnesty" the speaker is using. There are so many ways that amnesty in general would or would not work. With that in mind allow me to offer that the solution involves "some form of" amnesty. To think otherwise is not only unconscionable - but not very bright.

The incident cited by Sen. Kennedy is very representative of the price we unnecessarily pay in the name of safety. Further, it represents the way in which our current administration operates as a whole. This element of Black/White, Us/Them, Patriot/Traitor is indicative of imperial, communist and fascist regimes and the Patriot Act has brought these United States a little too close for comfort.

If we have less, we must spend less, end of story.

I agree that we need to walk the talk if we truly believe in "liberty and justice for all". Those are not just words, they are our core ideals, for which many of us have given the "last full measure of devotion". For us to allow anyone, even/especially our own government, to alter or lessen anyone's liberty or safety is unAmerican. They are the core ideals for which many have given the "last full measure of devotion. And the next time someone tries to use the War on Terror to scare you into abandoning these core ideals, remember Ben Franklin's words: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

=========Second, all people in this country are protected by the US Constitution whether they are citizens or not===================

Wrong. Since Bush signed his own new rule in October, not even citizens have protection any more because he tossed out habeus corpus.

Let us put blame where blame belongs, squarely on the Democrats. The Democratic leadership has fought tooth and nail any attempt to provide the states and employers with a valid identification system.

See Democrats won't stop drivers license verification bill, Reid says

WASHINGTON — A controversial bill that would require states to verify the citizenship or legal status of anyone applying for a drivers license will likely become law because Senate Democrats don't have the votes to stop it, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said Monday.
Aimed at illegal immigrants, the so-called Real ID Act is expected to be included in a final version of an $81 billion spending bill to fund the war in Iraq, according to Reid, D-Nev. House and Senate lawmakers begin negotiating a final version of the spending bill this week.

Reid and most Democrats had fought for months against the Real ID measure and succeeded in keeping it out of the Senate version of the spending bill. But Reid said Democrats have decided they would not hold up passage of the Iraq war spending bill solely because it includes the Real ID Act.

Horrible; inadequate software, first of all; second, deplorable lack of checks and balances in the INS.

Greg? The six years before November had a President and congress that were solidly Republican. Exactly why didn't they pass the driver's license verification bill during that time? Why didn't they enforce our immigration laws during that time? Why didn't they pass an identification card bill and put the database in place during that time?

Let's not get silly here. It's sort of disingenuous to expect that Democrats who have been the majority for about four months and have a razor thin majority, to fix everything the Republicans ignored the entire time Mr. Bush has been in office, isn't it?

Greg,
I'll give you that there is plenty of blame to go around in that there has NEVER been an adequate effort made to control our borders. But the core blame squarley resides on the shoulders of those who constantly fight the funding of issues like this. Republicans shout that they are the champions of national security, yet squirm like a moth emerging from it's pupa when it comes to actually ponying up with money for it.

It does not matter who is to blame----it is now time to solve the problem!!!

These illegals should NOT be given amnesty/path to citizenship in our country.

Require proof of citizenship for EVERYTHING-----jobs, housing, welfare, WIC, foodstamps, non-emergency medical, education benefits, Social Security, etc.-----and the illegals will have no choice but to leave and quit coming.

Then amend/revise the 14th Amendment-----no more anchor babies/automatic citizenship for children born on US soil when both parents are illegal.

Make a public announcement-----illegals have 6 months to get out of the country. After that time, if caught in the country illegally, they will get an automatic 6 months - 1 year-----even provide one-way transportation for them!!

Change border security laws----anyone caught coming into the country illegally gets an automatic 6 months for first offense and 1-3 years for any subsequent tries.

See how easy this can be done!!!

Hopefully, the "real ID" act will die a natural death! I disapprove of a back door national ID card! I don't question it might help some, the real way to stop the illegals is to cut off employment with an employment eligibility data base for employers to use and stiff employer sanction for employed illegals!

This business of forcing the dirty work off on the states is BS! Carter did it with speed limits, Regan did it with seat belt laws. Bush wants to do it with driver's licenses! If the feds can't do it themselves they have no business withholding money to make the states do it! Bush is still at it with seat belt law enforcement now! Idaho forfeited money this year because their law is not tight enough to suit the feds!

If I were Mexican and could only scratch out a starvation living in that country I'd probably come to America also if I could count on getting employment. Not because I want to break any nation's laws but because my family would benefit! So I can't blame them! But those who benefit from hiring them should be prosecuted! With no jobs, we wouldn't have to deport them, they would leave for work in Mexico!

It seems to me that if we had say DNA, biometrics or even an iris scan this mistaken identity would never take place. We probably have 50 Carlos Rodriguez's living here, most are good farm workers but 4 are terrorist..... aw hell, let's just give em all amnesty? There is a reason for this security if any of you don't see then you are part of the problem!
There are people all over the world in need of help, take Darfur where millions are dying. Hey, wait we can take them all here. I say we should bring ALL the criminals from ALL over the world in to America and give them benefits and more rights than Americans and THEN we could figure out if they are criminals or not and what we should do with them. If any of you don't see the sarcasm of this point, then you are part of the problem.
Illegals aliens are not here to 'indulge ourselves', they are not here to do jobs Americans won't do, they are here for the profits of big business. How many illegals would get ANY job if their salary requirement was $50/hr? It's a money thing, if you don't see this, your part of the problem.
We already allow 2 million/yr to immigrate legally and an almost an endless supply of the HB1 visas, so WITHOUT amnesty there's really no lack of workers for big business.
Do we have to deport then all? Of course not, they can self deport in many ways, Eisenhower had one way. Here is a bit of common sense. You have a bushel of apples and there ARE 10 bad apples how do you find the bad ones without taking out the good ones? Can the good apples be put back in? depends if we can be sure thay are the good apples, why not.
My one big question is... How many terrorists would you want to give amnesty to and how would we know who was and who wasn't? ask them??
Border agents and funds can be cut, proper walls (this means no chain link) are a one time fee. Wadaya think?

Tom,

Your apple analogy? Just crush them all into cider like the pros do! Adds flavor!

I'd fight tooth and nail having my DNA used for any kind of identification system. Once that's into a data bank there will be people access it that I don't want to have that access! Retina scan would not be as bad since it doesn't (yet) have the potential to give an insurance company information that even you may not have about your body and health.

Let's keep away from Americans having to carry "papers" like the communist countries did and find a way to develop a meaningful data base for checking the authenticity of social security numbers and then require employers to use that data!

Walls may be a one time fee but they must be patrolled regularly or they will leak like a sieve! And the people to patrol them are not a one time fee.

As far as you terrorists go, hell, let's just kill them all and let God sort them out! I easily recognize your sarcasm and it sound like there is a lot of anger there as well. You are right about their being here for business needs. And that includes farm workers. If the illegals are here they keep wages down for all business.

This brings the next problem. If you allow products and foods to increase substantially in cost it might be necessary to raise import fees to protect American products which would be fought tooth and nail by the companies involved. One problems leads to another!

America thrives on the immigrant dealy. An immigrant who comes here is usually for the better money.many get it and many end up driving taxis or maybe thats their goal in the first place. Many around us are like second or third generations to an immigrant so when one says that deport them all, they are hoarding all the jobs etc etc then think of it this way .... i have seen many and many immigrants that have worked their a#$%^ off- get their citizen ships in the process and are now at top positions in one or another company. Dont think that they don't go through hell to establish themselves in a new place. They pay through their teeth on everything that INS asks for starting from the day when they apply for a visa to the point when they stand in lines outside the INS offices and pay for various stuff which will help them move forward ---not the citizen ship but the green card..then they pay again for another bunch of paper work and then comes the wait of being called up and then comes the citizen ship.......immigrants go through hell just to become a part of the society where they do help to drive the economy-upwards and then get scorned down by those who think that they have more of a birth right to a place where they are contributing nothing but hatred. To blame the increase in crime rate solely on the immigrants is BS. Parts of American youth are lost as well. Name any country that has no immigrants whatsoever… People need to realize that just as the issue of immigration has some serious side effects, it also is what that helps their country's economy. Illegal Cross border infiltration needs to be stopped but to consider all immigrants as a parasite is just stupid.

By the way good points in the article.Heard the same thing.

The blame for the slow erosion of US Constitutional guarantees lies on all sides of the aisle. There might be a few more Republicans who loudly argue for many of these interpreted guarantees in the Constitution to be rewritten and a few Democrats who equally as loud decry this, but in the final analysis, the one state where this issue has taken on a more humanitarian and economic flavor is California, with a Republican I never in a million years dreamed could do the right thing. Of course, Schwarzenegger's state does have America's largest population of illegal immigrants. Then, California as a state is the world's 6th largest economy. In this whole argument, everyone seems to forget that the huge majority of illegal immigrants in America is the result of large businesses that have a vested interest in hiring cheap, near-slave labor. If America wishes to retroactively slap a fine or deport these innocent families and children, then the Navajo (Dineh) and Cherokee and countless other nations of Turtle Island also should have that right.

Hopefully, the "real ID" act will die a natural death! I disapprove of a back door national ID card! I don't question it might help some, the real way to stop the illegals is to cut off employment with an employment eligibility data base for employers to use and stiff employer sanction for employed illegals!

What earthly good is a "database" when an employer cannot establish whether the name they are entering into the database is valid, or that they person giving the name is who they say they are?

Before we "hold employers responsible" for hiring illegal aliens is it not rational to provide a means for them to determine who is and who is not an illegal alien? Or even who it is that they are talking to about a job?

if the I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service)

Devin, the name of the agency is U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE.

By the way, who in their right mind would believe Sen. Ted Kennedy? I notice how no name or details have been provided so that the press can verify this story.

http://www.ksn.com/news/also/7691017.html

And here is another one:

Man deported by mistake dies of heart attack

By YVES COLON Herald Staff Writer

Thomas Sylvain, the U.S.-born young man who was mistakenly deported to
Haiti for several months before immigration officials brought him home,
died of cardiac arrest Wednesday at Jackson Memorial Hospital.
He was unable to recover from the serious deterioration of his
health that occurred during his months in Haiti. Since returning
two months ago, he had been on life support in Jackson's
critical care ward.Doctors here have not been able to pinpoint exactly
the cause of his illness, but physicians at a private hospital in Haiti
had diagnosed him with AIDS.''They couldn't bring him back,'' said
Sylvain's younger brother, Andy. ''His blood pressure dropped and they
couldn't do anything more.''Sylvain was 20 years old.

Their father, Andre Sylvain, blames the U.S. Immigration and
Naturalization Service for his son's death.''Please let everybody know
that INS killed my son, the INS killed my son,'' Andre Sylvain repeated,
sobbing. ''I don't know what to do seeing him lying there.''

Deadly mistake

Marleine Bastien, a Haitian-American social worker who tried to help
Sylvain and his family, said, ''I'm angry and frustrated and sad . . . I
strongly believe if he was not deported to Haiti, he would still be
alive today.''When Andre Sylvain and his son last saw each other before
his deportation,Thomas Sylvain was in a Miami-Dade County jail on drug
charges, and he seemed healthy. He was later taken to the Krome
immigrant detention center before being deported to Haiti in late
January.He was sent to Haiti under a 1996 law that requires the
deportation of ex-convicts who are not U.S. citizens, even though
Sylvain insisted he was a citizen. His health declined rapidly while he
was in Port-au-Prince.Michael Gilooly, an INS spokesman in the agency's
eastern office, would not comment on the father's charges. ''It's not
the time nor the place to discuss those issues,'' he said.
He would only say that ''a critical illness or the passing away of any
human being is always a tragedy and, of course, devastating to family
and friends. Obviously,our condolences go out to his family members and
close friends.''

A case against INS

JoNel Newman of the Florida Justice Institute is trying to help the
family prepare a case against INS, requesting Sylvain's files from the
agency. This week, the organization, along with the Florida Immigrant
Advocacy Center, filed an appeal with the U.S. Attorney General's office
regarding certain documents INS has withheld from Sylvain's file.
''The family is entitled to review those files,'' she said.
So far, she said, medical records from files she has obtained from the
Miami-Dade County Jail and Krome show no signs of serious illness before
Sylvain was sent to Haiti. The picture in his travel document shows what
looked like a normal, healthy person, Newman said.''The entire history
of this case has just been a terrible tragedy,'' Newman said.
''Tragic is not a sufficient word. It's profoundly sad.''Noting that
repatriated Haitians sometimes lose their lives under various
circumstances, she said, ''The irony is that the United States had no
jurisdiction over this man whatsoever.''INS officials said Sylvain was
deported based on claims he made that he was a Haitian citizen while in
Miami-Dade County Jail and at Krome. He also swore
under oath that he was a Haitian citizen before an immigration judge,
INS said.His birth certificate and his U.S. passports had been altered,
they contended.'I am a U.S. citizen' Sylvain, however, had asserted on
several occasions before his deportation that he was a U.S. citizen. He
wrote several notes to fellow inmates that began, ''I am
a U.S. citizen,'' then signed them, ''Thomas Sylvain, American.'' He
also told an attorney, who says she told INS.Following a story in The
Herald about the deportation, members of Congress and
activists prodded INS to do an investigation. The agency finally
concluded that he was a citizen and brought him back to Miami on May 7.
It continues to investigate the circumstances that led to his
deportation.Sylvain suffered a heart attack on the way to Jackson from
the airport.His condition improved slightly when he first got to
Jackson. The day after he arrived, he signed papers giving doctors
permission to operate on him. He playfully wrestled with brother Andy on
one occasion. But his condition soon began to deteriorate. He was on and
off life support, and had been unresponsive for the past month.

As he had done every day, Andre Sylvain said he got to the hospital
early Wednesday to see his son and keep him company. That morning, he
told him to get well, and that he was praying for him. He had just
returned home around 6 p.m. when the hospital called and asked him to
return. It was already too late.''He looks like he's sleeping, just
lying there,'' Andre Sylvain said.

Family's grief

Andy Sylvain, though, knew his brother would not get to see his children
grow up,especially 15-month-old Tomesha, whose picture he carried in his
wallet while in Haiti. Sylvain had written her several letters,
according to the records Newman received from the INS.

Andy said he held little hope. ''I knew something like that was going to
happen,'' he said.The family intends to take Sylvain's body to New York
for burial.Said Bastien: ''I hope his death sends a strong message to
all those involved that changes have to be made in the system. I hope
his death is not in vain.''

As a resident of a small European nation which has a centralized database on everyone, with ID cards and such, what occurs all too frequently is the information leakage from the state's database to the private sector, especially where insurance companies and other private interests are subcontracted in health care and employment.

Bent:

Are you a US citizen?? If not, don't you think that it is a little arrogant of you telling us what laws you think should be passed in this country--- who should stay and who should go???

In other words, what makes you think that you should be able to say what we should do/shoudn't do???? Maybe we can send all of the illegals to your country----to depress your wages and take your jobs.

Saira:

Please don't try to intentionally blur the issue between legal immigration and ILLEGAL immigration-----that game/trick doesn't work anymore.

Are you going to pull out the racist/xenophobic cards next????

Actually I am a US citizen!

And even if I weren't a US citizen, what on God's earth difference would that make, in terms of contributing my opinion and facts on a subject I am well capable of discussing.

You really should read up on the Real ID Act before you comment on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act (follow the .gov links from there)

There are a lot of controversies over various clauses. For example, there's now going to be a centralized database of the driving records, addresses, and various bits on every citizen. This database won't include people who can't prove their legal status, but those folks will *still* be able to get state IDs that will allow them to drive and get insurance.

This system will only track citizens. It won't prevent non-citizens from driving. Ever get an ad from a car dealership who got your DL info? The states sell it. Now it will be even easier for spammers, identity thieves and various to correlate info, steal info, and buy info to make your life...uh, better.

I really don't see how it helps stop illegal immigration at all. That's a Big Lie, if I ever heard one.

Also look for how many places Homeland Security gets to define things like what donating to a terrorist organization means. Last I heard, these were the same folks who justified secret wiretaps on the American Friends Service Committee because of terrorist ties.

So does this mean that any time some loon doesn't like your politics, they can decide that the Society of Friends, or alternatively the Birchers, are terorrists and you can lose your right to drive in every state?

C'mon folks. Are you all too young to remember the decades of discussion about why a national ID database is a bad idea?

And I'll note that all the 9/11 hijackers had legit ID, and would be able to get the same under this system.

Brenda, can I "write you in" as my candidate of choice in the "08" election???

Saira, STFU, you don't have a clue about what you are trying to spout off about...

"stuff i dont have clue about" well i have more clues about this particular stuff than you have...people like you think that all immigrants are like parasites...sucking on your job opportunities and what not...well study up and work hard then....its a first come first serve world...so dont blame immigrants when they come n take the jobs they work hard for...
like i said almost 80 percent of americans here have immigrant roots so just because you areone of the generations that was born here doesnt mean to shun immigration as a whole.
Brenda get over your short sighted approaches. A person's remarks are his or her choice to make and you have no right to dictate them. And what is your defination of an American cictizen? one can become a citizen in justa a matter of years.....at least a large immigrant population is better than those american teens that die each year of drugs and what not.......
I am all against illegal immigrants...it should be stopped may be more because of all the anti-propagnada/sentiments against America and the constant risk that this country is up against from the radicals.

You really should read up on the Real ID Act before you comment on it
--
I really don't see how it helps stop illegal immigration at all. That's a Big Lie, if I ever heard one.

The Real ID Act insures that drivers licenses are issued on the basis of proper identification.

Here are the requirements:

A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.

Documentation of birthdate.

Documentation of legal status and Social Security number

Documentation showing name and principal residence address.

I would think it is obvious how this would help stop illegal immigration, since employers could now require a drivers license as a form of identification and be assured that the person is who they say they are, and that they are legally in the country.

By the way, The Real ID Act does not establish a national database.

Here are the facts: REAL ID Proposed Guidelines: Questions & Answers

What is REAL ID?

REAL ID is a nationwide effort intended to prevent terrorism, reduce fraud, and improve the reliability and accuracy of identification documents that State governments issue.


Where did this effort originate?

The 9/11 Commission recommended that the U.S. improve its system for issuing secure identification documents. In the Commission's words, "At many entry points to vulnerable facilities, including gates for boarding aircraft, sources of identification are the last opportunity to ensure that people are who they say they are and to check whether they are terrorists." The Commission specifically urged the federal government to "set standards for the issuance of…sources of identification, such as driver's licenses." Congress responded to this key recommendation by passing the Real ID Act


What is a REAL ID license needed for?

The REAL ID Act requires that a REAL ID driver's license be used for "official purposes," as defined by DHS. In the proposed rule, DHS is proposing to limit the official purposes of a REAL ID license to those listed by Congress in the law: accessing a Federal facility; boarding Federally-regulated commercial aircraft; and entering nuclear power plants. DHS may consider expanding these official purposes through future rulemakings to maximize the security benefits of REAL ID.


What was released on March 1?

On March 1, 2007, DHS released a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) for the REAL ID act. This is a major step towards advancing the general requirements of the law into actionable plans for DHS and the States. The text of the NPRM is NOT the final rule. Rather, it is a draft of the rule that is being submitted for public comment. Constructive comments, both affirming and debating items in the NPRM, will help DHS determine the final rule.


Additionally, the NPRM, and the final rule, specify minimum requirements. States are encouraged to work beyond the minimum requirements as appropriate for their constituent's needs.


Did DHS consult with the States in the development of the NPRM?

DHS consulted with State officials and State representative associations in the development of this proposed rule through meetings and conference calls in 2005 and 2006. Many States and State representative associations participated in these events and submitted written comments for consideration in the development of this proposed rule.


How does the NPRM protect Privacy of license holders?

Continuing to protect the privacy of license holders was a key consideration for DHS in the development of this NPRM, which contains a detailed analysis of the three key privacy issues posed by the Act: (1) the connectivity of the databases; (2) the protection of the personal information stored in the State databases; and (3) the protection of the personal information stored on machine readable technology on the DL/IDs. We invite comments on whether the steps outlined within the NPRM are appropriate and adequate.


Does DHS support an extension of the May 2008 deadline? Does DHS think that States will be ready?

DHS understands that the States are concerned about the tight timeline required to comply with the REAL ID Act. The Secretary and other DHS officials have discussed this matter with various Governors. Since DHS wants all States to be able to comply with the Act, DHS has set-up a procedure in the NPRM for States to obtain extensions until December 31, 2009. DHS expects States that have been granted an extension to begin issuing compliant licenses no later than January 1, 2010, in most cases with a roll-out of licenses as they expire.


What does a State have to do and when does it have to do it?

States that need an extension from DHS should file a request by February 1, 2008, though States are encouraged to inform DHS of its intention to request an extension as soon as October 1, 2007. DHS can grant an extension through December 31, 2009. A State that is complying with the REAL ID Act must begin issuing REAL ID-compliant licenses and identification cards no later than May 11, 2008. However, States that have been granted an extension will be required to issue compliant licenses and identification cards no later than January 1, 2010. All licenses and identification cards held by individuals from a State must be compliant by May 10, 2013.


The NPRM does not propose to change this practice and would not give the Federal government any greater access to this information than is currently accessible from individual State DMVs.


States contend they do not have the funds to implement REAL ID. How does DHS expect states to pay for REAL ID?

DHS will enable States to use up to 20% of a State's Homeland Security Grant Program funds for REAL ID compliance efforts. This would make substantial funds available to States beginning this calendar year. Congress, not DHS, can appropriate additional funds to help States meet their compliance obligations.


What do DMV's need to do to check documents establishing a person's identity?

All source documents must be verified with their issuing agency. DHS has identified appropriate methods for verifying identity, lawful status, date of birth and SSN with the issuing agency. DHS is also assisting the States in the development of querying services that would assist states in querying other States to determine whether an individual currently holds an active license in another jurisdiction.


How long will a REAL ID license be valid for?

The proposed regulation requires that REAL ID licenses be valid for a period limited to eight years. If a state has maintained the source document images, the DMV may re-verify that information without requiring that the applicant re-present the source documents. If, however, the State does not have the information and images of source documents at the time of the renewal, the State would need to require the applicant to re-submit any appropriate, missing documentation.


Can states continue to accept remote renewals?

Under the proposal, States may continue or establish remote renewals for REAL ID licenses. However, the NPRM states that license holders would need to renew in-person at every other issuance for an updated photo.


Is this a National ID card?

No. The proposed regulations establish common standards for States to issue licenses. The Federal Government is not issuing the licenses, is not collecting information about license holders, and is not requiring States to transmit license holder information to the Federal Government that the Government does not already have (such as a Social Security Number). Most States already routinely collect the information required by the Act and the proposed regulations.


Who will have access to the information that the DMV will be required to collect?

As they do now, authorized DMV officials in the licensing State will have access to DMV records. DMV employees in one State cannot "fish" the records in another State. The proposed rule requires States to include a comprehensive security plan for safeguarding information collected, stored, or disseminated for purposes of complying with the REAL ID Act, including procedures to prevent unauthorized access, use, or dissemination of applicant information and images of source documents retained pursuant to the Act and standards and procedures for document retention and destruction.


Will a national database be created that stores information about every applicant?

No. The REAL ID Act and these regulations do not establish a national database of driver information. States will continue to collect and store information about applicants as they do today. The NPRM does not propose to change this practice and would not give the Federal government any greater access to this information.


Will REAL ID change how my license looks?

The proposed rule does not specify precise designs or layouts of state issued licenses. Instead, DHS is proposing minimum standards that will appear on the face of the card. The proposed regulation would require each of the following on the face of REAL IDs; space available for 39 characters for full legal name; address of principal residence; digital photograph; gender; date of birth; signature, document number; and machine readable technology. Additionally, temporary REAL IDs would need to clearly state that they are temporary. Non-REAL IDs issued by compliant States would need to clearly state on their face that they are not acceptable for Federal official purposes and use a unique design or color that clearly distinguishes them from REAL ID licenses.


Do the proposed regulations require States to collect fingerprints or iris images from drivers?

No. Though States may independently choose to implement biometrics into their driver's license process, the NPRM does not require a State to collect fingerprints, iris images, or other biometric data in connection with obtaining a license and has no plans to serve as a repository for the face images the states will collect.


What is the Machine Readable Technology specified in the NPRM?

The regulations propose the use of the 2-D barcode already used by 46 jurisdictions (45 States and the District of Columbia). DHS leans towards encrypting the data on the barcode as a privacy protection and requests comments on how to proceed given operational considerations.


Will REAL ID driver's licenses include RFID cards?

The NPRM does not specify the use of RFID cards as a minimum standard. States may independently choose to implement an RFID solution, in addition to the standard 2-D barcode, to meet their constituent's needs.


How long is the comment period?

The comment period is 60 days. During this time, we look forward to closely reviewing each comment submitted in advance of issuing the final rule. Moreover, we will invite the Real ID Advisory Group, which was formed under the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, to the Department to provide oral comments on the proposed regulation.

Europe has enjoyed mostly open borders among themselves now for a few years, and it has neither worsened nor lessened any terrorist threat or influx of illegal immigration. Germany just enforced a passport-check on its border for a couple of weeks only because of the G-8 conference, where they do not wish to be invaded by protesters.

As to a national ID system in America with biometrics... that will unfortunately be a fact of life in the near future of technology. It's already begun in the private sector, as anyone with a VISA card should know. But the human spirit will always be greater than anything technology can invent to subvert that spirit.

Thank all of you for your excellent comments. It's easy to see there are no easy answers to the immigration problem. But ID's, fences, amnesty, or even the fanciful idea of rounding them all up will not stop them. The only thing that will stop the flow of humanity over our southern border will be for things to change in Mexico itself. Notice we don't have a throng of Canadians flowing across our northern border. If our Federal government is serious about doing something about this, they need to be working with the Mexican government. That government does virtually nothing to stem the tide of illegal immigrants leaving that country.

Devin, that was the wisest comment in the whole stream. ID's, fences, amnesty and all those ideas are only bandaids on a body dying of systemic poisoning. What most forget in getting their MBA is that our world is globalizing not just in terms of economics but culturally. America craves 25% of the world's resources, with 4% of its total population. People all over the world are waking up to the idea that they also have an equal right to that pie. And in that we also forget that there is a limit to how much we can tax the world's resources, even in terms of pure economics. There is also an economic theory that we are fast approaching its factual saturation.

Devin:

Yeah, here's an idea. We stop ALL money that is currently being sent to Mexico until they begin to make changes in their own country!!! Or, we start deducting from that money a certain dollar amount everytime one of their citizens is caught in our country.

The solution to solving the illegal invasion issues is not difficult, it is just not being done!!!! Actually, we already have laws that would do just fine, but they are not being enforced!!

Ranger:

Thanks for the support. However, don't write my name in-------write in Tom Tancredo, Ron Paul or-----MAYBE----- Mitt Romney!!!

Greg,

I agree with you. Employers need a better method of determining legal residency. They would not be entering the name of the person. They would enter the social security number and get information as to just who that number describes. Like when the card was issued, the nationality or race of the holder, whether the card has been active or not and any other information possible.

If an employer has done all he can do then he would have to be held blameless. But give him the tools and put the burden on him to use them.

In reading through you listing of things under the Real ID act I am struck by the number of things the feds won't do (at this time, wait till it's in place) such as the national data base or requiring finger prints. These things can be changed by administrative fiat at a later date. The object is to get the nose under the side of the tent.

I still don't believe that the federal government should be requiring states to do things because the feds want them done only. Again, Carter with speed limits, Regan with seat belts, etc. they've all used this technique and it's wrong.

They already have a good federal ID card called a passport. I do appreciate your time and effort in listing out these questions and answers about the Real ID Act.

Brent,

What's this about anyone with a visa card should know? None of my cards have any biometric information. I do agree that it is going to happen. However, at my age I may not have to live to see it! Just another small step in the loss of freedom in this country. I realize that you cannot have the same freedoms in an over populated nation and world that you could before but it is still a tragic loss to those of us who grew up knowing freedom.

Rich,
Good, I'd hate to think you and I would disapoint our fans by agreeing on something.

Seriously, I think if you'd open your eyes you'll find that a lot of my views only seem like they come from the liberal left. But that's the rub my friend, they only SEEM like it. The reality is that they come from me and only me.

A recent report shows that American men in their 30's are earning less money than their fathers did when they were in their 30's. Wonder if illegal immigration has something to do with that ?

Timothy, I read somewhere that the earnings gap is the result of a combination of: 1. More women in the workplace, 2. more immigration, and 3. more legal "aliens" working in the US.

The only one's hurt by economic sanctions are the poorest and most vulnerable in that society... generally children. About biometrics... there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. It's no different than ensuring identity theft, one way or the other doesn't occur. If law enforcement needs that to protect and serve, why would that be different than an older argument to accumulate fingerprints? We advance with the times. DNA fingerprinting is a good example also. I often in my comments here play the devil's advocate, bringing in a perspective to make others think a little beyond their boxed-in, narrow views. That's how solutions are found for very perplexing problems. I'm actually quite optimistic about our world and its future.

Republicans are against giving amnesty because they FEAR LOSING any power they may still have. Dem's are excited about the opportunity to gain a huge support base.

How unfortunate that once again, many party loyal are thinking MORE about their power base, rather than realizing the true POWER of PEOPLE. We in America have done quite well at putting immigrants to work; we've put millions of illegals to work too - an unfortunate back-door way to do it - but I'm not concerned about this country's ability to absorb these folks if it does come to amnesty.

We've somehow drawn this line in the sand called "amnesty." Well, change the procedures, and do it quick, so granting amnesty - the only logical fix in this situation - becomes unnecessary.

America's #1 resource: our people. Let's not forget it. In fact, let's embrace it and prosper with our people.

And by the way, Republicans, don't worry about 12 Million new citizens. After all, human nature is the same everywhere - once amnesty is granted (and I think it will be), just watch how the "NIMBY Effect" takes hold. Meaning "Not In My Back Yard." Human nature will be such that immigrants, once granted amnesty and given safe haven, will NOT be so supportive of OTHERS getting the same positive treatment.

No, human nature will indeed take hold, and they will become Republicans too - fighting further loosening of immigration laws. They, after all, have just as much, if not more, to lose. They won't want competition coming across the border to compete with them for their jobs.

I laugh out loud when I hear Republicans (many of whom I work with and support) quaking in their boots about the potential loss of power.

1) Don't worry about it;
2) Screw you for putting yourself first.

I just wrote an article based on the previous response--thanks Devin for bringing up this subject. A good one to point out! -John at The Coffee Group

The only thing that will stop the flow of humanity over our southern border will be for things to change in Mexico itself. Notice we don't have a throng of Canadians flowing across our northern border. If our Federal government is serious about doing something about this, they need to be working with the Mexican government.

Good Lord!!!

Why would Mexico work to STOP the flow of people going north?

The money sent home by illegal immigrants is a major economic factor in Mexico. It is the primary source of income for many Mexican families.

MEXICO: Remittances from US

An important aspect of US-Mexico relations is that the Mexican economy is heavily dependent on remittances from the US, much from illegal immigrants. Remittances of money from the US to Mexico reached a new record of $2.74bn in the first quarter of 2003, revealing a flow of money home from Mexican migrants much higher than previously known. The increase in money transfers shows that the impact of migrant labor on the Mexican economy is even greater than had been thought. Remittances are now approaching 2 per cent of gross domestic product, second only to oil exports (about $4.9bn)

Remittances to Mexico Exceed Investment as Source of Income

Nearly one Mexican in five regularly gets money from relatives employed in the United States, making Mexico the largest repository of such remittances in the world, according to a poll sponsored by the Inter-American Development Bank.

The pollster, Sergio Bendixen, estimated that the payments help feed, house and educate at least a quarter of Mexico's 100 million people.

The poll was part of a report on Monday by the bank, which said money sent home by all Mexican immigrants would soar to $14.5 billion this year, exceeding tourism and direct foreign investment to become this country's second most important source of income. Oil remains No. 1.

Mexico is a wealthy nation----but also corrupt. It should not be up to US citizens to provide financial assistance to Mexico or its citizens!!! By the way, the US already gives Mexico financial assistance. The US needs to stop the financial assistance until Mexico stops their citizens from coming here and shows an effort at ending corruption and trying to provide for its citizens.

May 30, 2007
Getting the Government the Third World Deserves
By Selwyn Duke

"Since our largest immigrant group hails from Mexico, let's look south of the border. Mexico is a thoroughly corrupt country, not at all unique in the Third World but certainly emblematic of it. For instance, they have the dubious distinction of possibly having the most corrupt police force in the world, as Mexican authorities enforce whatever law pays them the most. According to a documentary on the subject, you can buy your way out of a fatal hit-and-run for 450 dollars.

But the corruption is so systemic that many of us have heard the stories ourselves. I remember being told of a man who traveled to Mexico and was mugged by the police (a documented example of theft by Mexican police can be found here). Then I heard about a hapless soul who had to sell his home to pay tribute to a family with more clout and a grudge against him; the police paid him a visit and told him he'd be shot if he didn't. Most recently, an acquaintance told me how he was pulled over for running a stop sign that didn't exist and had to pay the crooked cop a bribe so he could continue on his way. And this corruption is mirrored in every aspect of Mexican society, in the bureaucrats, the courts and, of course, the politicians.

This is why cultural equivalency doctrine is nonsense. People may complain about corruption here, and while it certainly exists, it's the exception, not the norm; by and large, we are still governed by the rule of law. We don't fully appreciate this because in just the same way some of us take our lifestyle for granted - not realizing ours is a life of silk and satin as compared to most of the world - we also take for granted that one will be able to conduct everyday business and others will play by the rules. But in most of the world this is the exception, not the norm.

In other words, if we want to descend into a culture of corruption, all we need do is continue the mass importation of Third Worlders through immigration, both illegal and legal. Naturalization won't inculcate virtue immediately; rather, they will bring their passions, ideology and voting habits with them and lend their support to the same kinds of corrupt leftists they supported in their native lands.

If you want a glimpse of things to come (unless we reverse course), just study states in which Third Worlders have settled. California was once a place where Ronald Reagan reigned supreme, a conservative citadel. Now, with the majority of its population being of Third World and Asian heritage, it's on the cutting edge of societal devolution. Its senators are Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein, and it has become a metaphor for politically correct insanity. Reagan could be resurrected with all his charm and oratorical splendor, and he would not win his home state.

Arizona is another prime example. Once synonymous with Barry Goldwater, it now elects senators such as John McCain and Jon Kyl, amnesty advocates both. Hey, they know their constituency.

What do you think will happen when the Third World invasion hits your region? Is your state possessed of a special aura that will magically transform these groups' collective ideology? The truth is that once the whole nation looks like California, you'll be pressing two for English.

As for those welcoming this cultural suicide, they will learn the hard way that one must be careful what he wishes for; you see, by and large, they know not what they sow. The politicians are blinded by power, the business interests by money, and the Mexicans by ethnic patriotism. And, ironically, it is the last group that will probably be most unhappy as we devolve into Mexico North. The only concerns of politicians and business are, respectively, power here and now and money here and now. Most of these people are fairly old, and life beyond the next few elections or few dozen financial quarters is of no consequence. If they are still around, perhaps assimilating into the culture of the French Riviera by joining the locals in mockery of boorish Americans, their Gulfstream jets will spirit them away to lands of milk and honey and their plunder will buy them all the political favors and favorable court rulings a Master of the Universe could ever need.

The hapless Third Worlders, like most of the rest of us, won't be so fortunate. Languishing in a nation reminiscent of Blade Runner (that is, assuming America remains intact), they won't have pockets deep enough in which to keep police, bureaucrats, judges and politicians.

Of course, one group that will welcome this cultural and economic breakdown is the Islamists. A corrupt, balkanized land where political correctness carries the day is fertile soil for those who prey on desperate souls yearning for meaning and moral order.

Be assured, though, immigration will come to an end. Once the rape of these United States is complete, with money redistributed, productivity and wealth creation squelched and currency devalued, immigrants will stop coming here. People generally don't go from one Third World country to another."

Entire article through link...............

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/05/
getting_the_government_the_thi.html

Brenda,

If America is giving money to Mexico can you tell me how much and by what means and for what reason? I'm not contradicting you, just unaware of this information.

Looking at this with "us & them" eyes can only result in confrontation and chaos. We are all human beings and we had better wrap the idea of cooperation around our selves or we''ll end up dooming our selves to a world just like the one Brenda describes. Isolationism is not the answer. We must recognize that the world's problems ARE our problems. I'm not so arogant as to think we have the power to solve the world's problems, but if we don't do everything we can to help, then we are shirking our responsibility to our fellow man.

And when I said our government should be working with the Mexican government, I was not necessarily referring to more money. There are a lot of ways to affect change. We just have to use our imaginations. Like looking for new ways for Mexico to exploit it's own natural resources.

James:

I used to have that information saved, but I no longer do. Definitely do a Google search, as I know that it is a fact!!!

Devin:

What are you not understanding here??? Mexico is a wealthy nation, it knows how to use its natural resources. The problem is the corruption. Due to the corruption, there are two classes in Mexico-----the have everythings and the have nothings.

The Mexican people alone need to force change within their own country!!

Brenda, what fantasy land do you live in? I have studied Mexico academically - economically and socially... visited all sorts of little villages that only have Mayan names... and that most populous city in the world, Mexico City, where there is an entire city within the city the size of many large American cities... built upon, within and seething in the world's largest garbage dump, where children drink toxic chemical runoff from the waste products of American outsourced manufacturers. Almost every country in the world has a few at the top of the economic pyramid scheme who are incredibly wealthy, even North Korea. My god, Brenda, I actually feel sorry for you. I am sure you are a very good person with good intentions in your life, but you are not living in the real world with your statements.

"Mexico is a wealthy nation"?

While it is true that there are many nations which are poorer (and whose people are even more desperately poor) than Mexico, none of those poorer nations shares a border with a neighbor as properous as the USA.

The Mexico-US border represents the largest disparity in potential income between any two adjacent nations on the planet. As long as US employers keep winking at US laws and hiring illegals, there will only be only way to stem the one-way flood across that border: significantly reduce that disparity. Either Mexico's standard of living must come up, or ours must go down -- and clearly, bringing theirs up is preferable to all concerned.

Wealthy people, of course, will continue to live well and get their sweet way, no matter where they are.

Thomas, what you point out... that stark and incredibly tension-filled contrast at the Mexican border... is a horrible issue few really understand. I came to understand that when I spent time on the Navajo reservation (Dineh Nation). On the Interstate, at the US-Navajo border, I found a similar state of affairs as with Tijuana - San Diego. Once one goes deep into the reservation, where the matrilianeal elders hold the clan culture together with ancient patterns, then those children living in the trailers and hooghan huts lived at peace with themselves. But Mexico via its northern brother (and echoes from colonial Spain,) has lost most of those ancient traditions that enable long-lasting survival.

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Articles/information from throughout the country regarding the illegal invasion. It is updated twice a day!!

Mexico is a wealthy nation, actually 13th on the list for GDP. Their ridiculously low tax rates are part of the problem. Also, their Constitution inhibits foreign investment, i.e. landownership of coastal and border properties, by foreigners.

Good stuff everybody, but I think you've strayed off the point of my article. My point being that the dysfunctional state of the INS, or ICE or what ever you want to call it, has placed all of us in danger of being caught up in some dumb mistake resulting in the unraveling of our lives. My second point is that applying a double standard to any situation is an open invitation to disaster. Or, how can a people be so adamant about it's beliefs that they are willing to die for them, yet not be willing to afford their fellow human beings the right to share those beliefs?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3953757.stm

Unfortunately, Devin, that straying occurs because there is an underlying desire among some to hoard wealth as if gold is of greater value than children and to kill the messenger that is as old as the written word. Moses came down from a mountain with one simple golden rule for his people, and suddenly had to begin writing a catalog of rules so those "false gods" not be worshiped anymore.

My sense of the illegal immigration quagmire right now is that no one on Capitol Hill or Pennsylvania Ave are in the right place with this yet. The US already has a horrible plate on the table - the Iraq war - and to try to legislate the immigration situation away will only further divide America. The best thing to do is to tackle the problem one bit at a time, the way one does not gobble down an unpleasant or even tasty meal in an instant. One spoonful at a time. My suggestion is that the first step is to legislate more resources and empowerment to the border patrol so they have the resources to enforce existing laws, rather than dilute their abilities now, as is currently being done by putting them on presidential candidate details and to Iraq. In some southwestern states, the border patrol works in cooperation with the local native American tribal councils, where native "trackers" can better read the telltale signs in the sands, much like we've seen in some movies. Give such programs, aimed at stopping the flow of illicit drugs into America through vast and inhospital deserts better resources as well. Lets just take this one step at a time, like how we deal with any life-threatening addiction in personal life, otherwise one sabotages the entire intent of fixing a problem.

Devin,

"That is why some sort of amnesty is the only answer at this juncture. Even a lot of Republicans agree with that, including GW."


I have to agree with you there, Devin. I wrote a piece called "The 'A' Word" on it. Time to turn that frown upside-down and embrace amnesty...accelerate through the smoke, baby.

"What we need is to tell the Republicans to stop pushing the idea of cut, cut, cut, every time they look at a government program or entity like our border patrol. If we had been spending an adequate amount on border security in the first place we wouldn't be facing such an insurmountable problem as we are."

Uh, maybe too simpleton, don't ya figure? This is staff-driven, and careless at that. I don't know that spending more would have solved a mistaken identity situation, do you--really?

And when I said our government should be working with the Mexican government, I was not necessarily referring to more money. There are a lot of ways to affect change. We just have to use our imaginations. Like looking for new ways for Mexico to exploit it's own natural resources. - Devin Barber

We need to get cracking on this TODAY.

Let's send our "Office of Government Thinkers" down to Mexico to think up things for them because, like you know, those Mexican government people don't think of things like our government thinkers do!!

Hell, the Mexican didn't even know they had "Natural Resources" until our government told them that they did!!

What, Brenda, no wrath for the law-breaking US employers who for years have provided the economic incentive for illegal entry by millions?

Can you say "aiding & abetting"?

Idiots...complete morons...

Welcome Mark-John K., ????
Do you have a comment?

Thomas:

DEFINITELY the employers should be nailed----prosecuted and fined for hiring illegals!!! A lot of employees who had their jobs replaced by illegals or their wages reduced due to illegals have filed lawsuits against employers based on the RICO laws-----more US citizens should begin to do the same!!!!!

Lighten up, Brenda. You can't take your missing wealth with you when you're *a spirit in the sky,* as the song goes. What you do take with you is the spirit of how you were with your brothers and sisters.