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by Cheri Cabot
Member since:
April 4, 2006

Personal About Politics: What Price Loyalty?

May 22, 2007 10:21 PM EDT (Updated: May 23, 2007 01:32 AM EDT)
views: 234 | rating: 9.1/10 (29 votes) | comments: 250

I have always been intrigued by blind loyalty, both those who follow someone blindly, and those who command such loyalty.

Blind loyalty is a common thread throughout the Bush administration.  What keeps his “Bushies” so loyal? Is it the promise of money somewhere down the road? Is it power? The promise of power or just being close to someone powerful? For some, it is the only way they can ever hope for any power, by just being in the same arena of the power broker. It may be both, since it appears that many of those most loyal to Bush, who receive high paying jobs, are also the most incompetent.

It may also be the reason Bush is so loyal to them. By placing unqualified people in administrative positions, he can play on their inadequacies and therefore wield more control. Why, for example, did Bush continue to push for the nomination of Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court when she was glaringly unqualified and there was no support for her on the Hill?  Probably because, as we know now, she was doing his bidding behind the scenes, ticking off attorneys general to fire.

Bush supported then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld as he continued to deny any failures in Iraq, even after it was obvious there were many failures, right up until the failure of the Republican Party to win a majority in Congress…..then he was fired.

And let’s not forget FEMA Director Mike “Bownie’s doing a heck of a job” Brown. He was the poster child for complete ineptitude, and had there not been a real disaster (Katrina) he might have waltzed through his entire tenure, garnering $148,000 a year, without ever having to do anything responsible. 

The entire world called for the resignation of Paul Wolfowitz after his embarrassing behavior at the World Bank. Not President Bush. Probably because Wolfowitz helped construct and promote the war in Iraq, which is exactly what the White House wanted. 
 
General Alberto Gonzales continues to have selective amnesia when testifying, giving all kinds of non-information, and blatantly admitting he doesn’t know what goes on in his own department. Both Democrats and Republicans are calling for his resignation and a revamp of the justice department, and yet Bush gives him support. Why? Because he is a firewall to the White House, keeping the investigation away from Rove and yes, Bush himself.

Bush selects people hungry for power. People who will do anything he asks just for the opportunity to be near the center of power. People with no conscience or morals, or sense of their own self-worth.  People he can use.  He wrings them out, then hangs them out to dry.


“George W. Bush has gathered around him….most frighteningly, psychotic personalities, or PPs, the medical term for smart, personable people who have no consciences.”
From the memoir of the late Kurt Vonnegut, published in 2006.



Cheri Cabot, Politics Correspondent
Cheri’s column, “Personal About Politics”, published every Tuesday, will reflect on how the life of a 57 year-old, middle class woman is affected by politics, policy and the current state of the nation - a look at the personal aspects of politics. The articles will be posted to Politics.gather.com as part of Gather Essentials.

Cheri is a single teacher and writer, living in Southern California.  She has two grown children, one in Iowa and one at Columbia University, and is the proud grandmother of two. Cheri is also a purveyor of fine coffee, warm chatter and dry wit.

You can find all of Cheri’s columns on Personal About Politics at www.ccabot.gather.com.  Keep up with Cheri’s other postings and Gather activity by joining her Gather network at www.ccabot.gather.com, and select the orange “Connect” button on the left-hand side of the page.

You’ll find Cheri and other Politics Correspondents, plus celebrity content and plenty of other Politics experts at Politics.gather.com


                               
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Comments: 250

Kathryn E. May 22, 2007, 10:34pm EDT
I agree with you, wholeheartedly, Cheri. That is the sad thing; You've stated the truth; it is so awful that this administration is so terrible.
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Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. May 22, 2007, 10:47pm EDT
I hesitate to say this, but I can think of one parallel ruler, that did exactly this, and rode the wave to unopposed absolute ruler of a modern nation, and GWB is poised, right now, to do just this. I am not sure that he is not just as ruthless, and just as evil. The characteristics that you speak of make for the perfect fascist operatives. It should be an interesting few years here. See you at Gestapo headquarters, Cheri.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 22, 2007, 10:52pm EDT
Truth, indeed, is stranger than fiction!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Don(time to open them FEMA camps) S. May 22, 2007, 11:02pm EDT
I will never submit!!!!!
Thanks Cheri .
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Carolyn G. May 22, 2007, 11:21pm EDT
Excellent analysis and interesting question. I am almost assuming now that appointing someone like Colin Powell was somehow an error in judgment for Mr. Bush given that everyone else he favors seems to have had to meet the criterion of being less gifted and less intelligent than their Commander in Chief. Condi Rice is the only exception to that, and her blind obedience to the Bush line seems to have made him forgive her for being smarter than he is.

It's sort of a sad commentary if you think about it. The usual pattern is a less than intelligent man surrounds himself with those more able then takes credit for their achievements and they in turn make him look good. This lowest common denominator criterion is puzzling.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 22, 2007, 11:21pm EDT
Blind loyalty? Why don't you do an article on blind hatred?
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 22, 2007, 11:31pm EDT
So many accusations hurled (as usual, this is the cheap sort of politics liberals play), so lets just pull one out and examine -- just for a second.

"And let's not forget FEMA Director Mike "Bownie's doing a heck of a job" Brown. He was the poster child for complete ineptitude"

Point one; Let's go back and look at what happened to FEMA after 911 and after the creation of the "Department of Homeland Security." FEMA was no longer it's own entity -- it was mixed in with a new department and the merge was a huge, difficult and messy undertaking.

Point two; Brown was in charge of FEMA in 2004 when Florida was hit with four hurricanes in a row. I live here and experienced all four. The state was a mess. But under JEB BUSH as Governer and Mike Brown heading FEMA, the state of Florida did a great job of recovering. It was really a spectacular job done and Jeb was re-elected with a huge margin largely based on his leadership during the difficult times.

Point three; you are judging a man based on an UNPRECEDENTED natural disater in America. Repeat that word: Unprecedented. Couple that with some of the worst LIBERAL DEMOCRAT STATE LEADERSHIP and a population who refused to evacuate... and you want to put it all on Brown? Are you kidding????
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 22, 2007, 11:56pm EDT
An ICE CREAM truck! Please say it ain't so. Although to be fair, you do have to be able to count to drive an Ice Cream truck. Perhaps W thought that was all he would really need to do after he blew the place up.

Don H. Not surprisingly, you said something insulting to a large group of people with no evidence that it is so. The population of New Orleans did not REFUSE to evacuate. Many did, but most were unable to evacuate. Explain to me how whole prisons were not evacuated. Those guys don't get a choice. Wait, don't explain it to me. Explain it to yourself. I really don't want to debate the obvious this week.
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Cheri Cabot May 22, 2007, 11:57pm EDT
"Two days after Katrina hit, Marty Bahamonde, one of the only FEMA employees in New Orleans, wrote to Brown that "the situation is past critical" and listed problems including many people near death and food and water running out at the Superdome.

Brown's entire response was: "Thanks for the update. Anything specific I need to do or tweak?"

"In the midst of the overwhelming damage caused by the hurricane and enormous problems faced by FEMA, Mr. Brown found time to exchange e-mails about superfluous topics," including "problems finding a dog-sitter," Melancon said.

Melancon said that on August 26, just days before Katrina made landfall, Brown e-mailed his press secretary, Sharon Worthy, about his attire, asking: "Tie or not for tonight? Button-down blue shirt?"

A few days later, Worthy advised Brown: "Please roll up the sleeves of your shirt, all shirts. Even the president rolled his sleeves to just below the elbow. In this [crisis] and on TV you just need to look more hard-working."

On August 29, the day of the storm, Brown exchanged e-mails about his attire with Taylor, Melancon said. She told him, "You look fabulous," and Brown replied, "I got it at Nordstroms. ... Are you proud of me?"

An hour later, Brown added: "If you'll look at my lovely FEMA attire, you'll really vomit. I am a fashion god," according to the congressman."

this is from a CNN report from 11/05

Does this sound like someone who is competent? I don't think so
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Suzi :Two sides to every story May 23, 2007, 12:00am EDT
Good to see you back Don. It's been so agreeable without you. You're an important part of the equation. Stirring the pot helps us understand another way of thinking, even though it's filled with flaws.
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Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. May 23, 2007, 12:03am EDT
I wouldn't put it ALL on Brownie, no, but I would give Jeb Bush more credit for Florida than Brown, and the fact that the brother of the president probably got a little more cooperation than a Democratic governor could expect, or received, obviously, for that matter, and no matter how you cut it, he takes, rightly, a major part of the blame for the Katrina ineptitude. He was neither qualified for, or up to, the job he was in, this is a matter of public record, and a constant theme with Bush appointees, and it showed, pitifully. As for your typically biased right wing claim that the people of New Orleans refused to evacuate, you know as well as I do that is crap. The truth there is that many of these people were below poverty level in the first place, and had no way to do it on their own.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 12:04am EDT
Spartan -- your story is more of the same sort of cheap politics, putting blame on Bush where he had no part in what happened.

That man was hired by the Coalition Provisional Authority -- not by the Bush Adminstration as you stated. Further, the CPA had so many things going on at once becaues they were rebuilding an entire country in a very short time under extreme circumstances. All you can do is sit back and laugh and point fingers. That takes very little to do. And lastly, I don't know the guy's entire resume so I don't care to come to his defense, but it is worth pointing out that he majored on politcal science at Yale and he was at least a "private-sector development officer"... whatever that is. Anyways, you spew out more crap and you guys wonder why many of the "Bushies" have "blind loyalty." It's because the people making the accusations and pointing fingers are so blinded by hate, who in their right mind would actually take them (You) seriously???? Not me.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 12:06am EDT
"Explain to me how whole prisons were not evacuated."

Janice -- talk to the state of LA for your answers. Mike Brown doesn't run state prisons. Thanks for making my point.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 12:13am EDT
"I agree with you, wholeheartedly, Cheri. That is the sad thing; You've stated the truth;"

Another liberal drone showing blind loyalty! No questioning of any points.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 12:15am EDT
"An hour later, Brown added: "If you'll look at my lovely FEMA attire, you'll really vomit. I am a fashion god,""

Cheri - You pull out some 'light' comments he made under duress? Please, that means nothing to me. I am sure every emotion including light moments and very sad, very hurried, intense moments...all happened in those times. For you to characterize it as being one way is ridiculous! And you know it.

You'll also have to show me how miserable a job Brown did in Florida in 2004. Go ahead, take your best shot. You are making the case that he was inept, so that must be across the board.
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 12:31am EDT
I guess Amelie just explained ineptitude to you, Don.

Also, let's not forget that Brown is only one of many who are/were not qualified for the Administrative positions they are/were holding.

Thanks Amelie for your comment, and I'm very sorry about your family's loss from Katrina.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 12:56am EDT
Cheri/Amelie -- that fact that a house was destroyed has NOTHING to do with Bush. It was a natural disaster. It doens't matter if your relatives were on the moon -- the house was in the path of the storm. Please explain to me how that is ineptitude.

Regarding your calling every state and federal agency... how about you and millions others. Unprecedented events do not make for smooth government operations. And as you made clear, Amelie, it was the state more so than the fed.

So as sad as the situation was, it doesn't support Cheri's 'blind loyalty' argument. And that is what this is about.

And I will reiterate the point I made about cheap politics and pile on accusations... it's easy to just say this stuff, but to defend it becomes difficult when you have so many people who are already biased. It's nothing more than a liberal echo chamber.

I rest my case.
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Sam C. May 23, 2007, 1:05am EDT
It is a very interesting question and it must be part and parcel of how a political American conservative views the government, morality, nationalism and the place of America in the world. Bush is the summation of the "Reagan" revolution. He, his national and international policy is the direct fruit of the desperate effort made by conservatives to seize the reigns of government denied for 50 years. When they gained Bush and the Congress they were at their peak. It was loyalty to the mythology of conservatism, the illusion of a cleaner, more law abiding, religious, capitalist, America working her benevolent and violent will across the planet. These people truly believe their divine destiny is to make the world a colorful, wider extension of the USA consumer driven Judeo-Christian culture with a new class of oil oligarghs nestled at the top. Any thing, government or ideal that interputs this vision is marked for doom. Their loyalty is to a dressed up dream of global domination, a fantasy of what was and what should be.
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Sam C. May 23, 2007, 1:15am EDT
Don disasters, even big ones, can, do and will happen. The philosophy of personal responsibility, the heart throb of the right, was manifest in Dubya's response. The victims of the storms were under the impression that this nation is the wealthiest, most advanced and interdependent in history. They expected and still expect, like the rest of America, that this nation do something to restore the entire region. Dubya's poll ratings dove after Katrina and never recovered because he stuck to his neo-con guns. Of course his highly publicized mea-culpas were very nice but as the ladies say, "handsome is as handsome does."
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 1:33am EDT
Don, I can't understand a word you have said. I've tired, I really have....but none of it makes sense.
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Christine Zibas May 23, 2007, 3:30am EDT
What surprises me is not that Bush has put incompetent yes men into Cabinet posts and let Karl Rove run things behind the scene. What surprises me is that Bush didn't care about New Orleans and the legacy that would mean for his presidency. Any other person in that office would put all their energy into helping the area rebuild (if only for the trade and oil business). Rebuilding New Orleans--or at least helping get the mess straightened out--would have gone a long way toward the measure of his presidency. Instead, he has totally abandoned the region. Even though he regularly makes trips to Crawford, I haven't seen him in New Orleans in a long, long time.
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Christine Zibas May 23, 2007, 3:34am EDT
Surely, New Orleans is at least as important as Iraq?
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 7:31am EDT
One would think, however, if it doesn't make money for him,he apparently doesn't care. The tornado in Kansas is another example. The state is short National Guard personnel because they have been sent to Iraq. The town has been wiped off the map, and is still waiting for help. Very sad when we can't take care of our own people.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 9:45am EDT
"state is short National Guard personnel"

Flat out lie. Do you understand that?
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 9:48am EDT
Wait a minute. Doesn't Fema have everything to do with insuring evacuation plans and STATE cooperation and resources during natural disaster? Otherwise, what the Hell are they there for? Apparently to sit still and look pretty. It isn't a post for the unqualified IMHO.

Wow, it sure has been intellectual around here lately. Don, when you walk into a room, the whole place just lights up, I bet. You are such a ray of sunshine!
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 9:50am EDT
Our state is short on Guard personnel, Don. Most aren't filling slots. Since you have nothing whatever to do with the military, you probably should avoid the subject.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:00am EDT
"These people truly believe their divine destiny..."

Where do you guys get this stuff? This is just pure fantasy stuff you're spewing, Sam. How do you KNOW what is in another persons mind? And worse, you assign it to an entire group! You moonbats are psychics too, eh?
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 10:01am EDT
Oh, hell, I just realized. Cheri, my husband went with the Kansas guard to Balad. Which groups did they leave? Did they deploy everyone in the state? I knew it was a huge deployment, but that's when Dubya should have ordered in another state. Oh, and just to inform, not every state has a huge Guard contingent. Many less populous states have very few Guardsmen. It's a matter of allocation of resources, geographical feasibility, and availability of volunteers. I clear this up now because I know Don will try to "explain" it to us all in his usual charming, misguided way.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:05am EDT
Janice --As far as having 'nothing' to do with the military, my father served for 8 years as a navy pilot, my older brother served 6 years on a nuclear sub, and my younger brother served 4 years in Special Forces. So enough with your cheap shots. How long did you serve? Tell me all about it.

Lastly, you have one opposing voice on this article and you want me to shut up? What is wrong with you people? You militant liberals are pathetic -- you expect everybody to walk in lock step with your misguided ideals.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 10:12am EDT
Opposing is okay. It's ridiculous and mean spirited that negates your opinion. You oppose for no apparent reason, and by doing so actually back up...no illustrate Cheri's point beautifully. We have all refuted certain claims and you ignore those facts. That's your MO.

As to your family's service, congratulations, but obviously you have few facts about the current state of our National Guard. I serve as a Military WIFE raising my three kids alone while he serves his country, so don't pull that one. All I'm saying is when you have not the necessary information to comment rudely to another post, you should probably not comment.

" "state is short National Guard personnel"

Flat out lie. Do you understand that? "

You called her a liar in error. She is actually correct, and you look like a big nut. Illustrating "blind loyalty" at it's finest.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 10:14am EDT
Bless your heart, Don. I have to go to my son's school today, but ,as usual, you have been entertaining.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:17am EDT
Janice -- the very essence of Cheri's article is mean spirited as is all the comments supporting her. My response is in kind only. The problem is you, not me.
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a g. May 23, 2007, 10:18am EDT
i agree with u completely..people in the administration seem to have not "functioning reasoning capacity" or "conscience"..lets see what Monica Goodling has to say about the US attorney firing..i am sure it will sound like a Spy movie..
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:24am EDT
"All I'm saying is when you have not the necessary information to comment rudely to another post, you should probably not comment."

Well, I read the news story that refuted that story about there not being enough National Guard. She's lying, and you are backing up her lie.

From the spokesperson for Governor Sebelius (where the story of the shortage came from):

"Sebelius was doing her own backpedal from across the country.
Her spokeswoman, Nicole Corcoran, said the governor didn't mean to imply that the state was ill-equipped to deal with this storm. Sebelius' comments about National Guard equipment were, instead, meant as a warning about the state's inability to handle additional disasters, such as another tornado or severe flooding, she said."

Sorry to dissappoint you Janice, but my sources are a little better than yours.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:32am EDT
" Bush has earned the mistrust of the American Public."

Wrong again. Elected twice.

What he did was make mistakes in the handling of Iraq and Katrina. He's not recovered from those two. The mistrust is only a far left issue.... in other words irrelevant.
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Joan D. May 23, 2007, 10:37am EDT
Oh Hugh? I mean.. Don H?

When exactly is your report-for-duty date again? I seem to have misplaced it.

*snicker*

You just keep your toe to the Bushie line - I'm sure you'll find your next $300 refund in your mailbox momentarily.

Your repetitious spouting of previously-debunked Republic talking points is getting soooooooo last week, Snookiedimples *yawn*
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Joan D. May 23, 2007, 10:38am EDT
Never Elected, Donnie, Dear.

His brother fixed the election, remember? *points and laughs*
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 11:00am EDT
all those snickers, points and laughs... what does it mean? Bush serves two terms. Who's really laughing here? I know it's not Gore and Kerry ;)
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 11:07am EDT
Jaon - when exactly is your report for duty? About the only report for duty you do is when you hit can to take a dump.
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Suzi :Two sides to every story May 23, 2007, 11:13am EDT
Gee, I wish I were friends with the Diebold manufacturers, so I could become President of the United States. Or maybe my brother and Ms. Harris could hand me the state of Florida.
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Chris W. May 23, 2007, 11:17am EDT
Yes, cheri, yes.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 11:33am EDT
President Bush was elected twice. Please stop with your mamby pamby whining about how he 'stole' the election. It's been refuted over and over but you dense morons never get it.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 11:35am EDT
Clearly, I've won this debate.
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Bill's Spirit May 23, 2007, 11:54am EDT
Ten
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Mario A. May 23, 2007, 12:34pm EDT
Cheri, a very good article and great insight into what drives people. I would just "disagree" with you on your conclusion about what happens to these incompetent people Bush appoints; that Bush "wrings them out, then hangs them out to dry."

I would say the people's own incompetence exposes them, and sometimes it is so glaring that even Bush's stubborn and petulant support can't save them. In other words, they produce enough rope on their own to hang themselves.
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 1:04pm EDT
You haven't won anything Don H.....just the distain of everyone on this thread...but, apparently you are the only one keeping score.

Good point Mario. There reaches a point where even Bush can't support them anymore......or sometimes he just gives them another high-paying job they are totally unqualified for....instead of hanging them out to dry, he just shuffles them around.
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Charles Signorile May 23, 2007, 1:09pm EDT
Don, you have to forgive Cheri and other liberals for being misinformed on major issues, they rely on the New York Times for their information.

They should read this article to see the truth about Kansas.
"Fact is, she had 4,500 guard troops on call for this town of 1,600 if she needed them. She also had offers of help from other states for any resources Kansas asked for"

Or the White House Press Release which quoted the Governer:
But as a separate issue, the question is, were resources available? And so Fran had a conversation and I'll just play out a little — just repeat a little bit of it. Fran said that it was her understanding that we'd met every request the Governor had made, and had moved resources proactively into Kansas, into the region, to anticipate requests. We had a conversation this morning, for instance, about notifications and declarations. There were some conversations on Saturday prior to the Governor's officially requesting a declaration, and on the basis of those conversations, the federal government began moving assets into the region before paperwork was done, because it was important — as a matter of fact, FEMA had resources moving in within a couple of hours.

So there was a very — this is a success story in the sense that people were moving very quickly to get assets there. So, in response to Fran's question, the Governor said that she had what she needs. She did repeat her testimony that she's been raising the issue about DOD for a number of years in terms of National Guard deployments. When Fran again said, "Is there anything you need to respond effectively to this disaster," the Governor responded, "No. We could not have asked for a faster response. Dave Paulison was terrific yesterday."
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 1:37pm EDT
Charles -- careful with those facts. Liberals don't like simple facts. Besides, that's only one point... what about all those other points made by Cheri? Not enough? These liberals can lay them down all day, so don't bother refuting, there's more garbage where that came from.

Oh, and don't you know it's we who are on the defensive here that are insulting and deserving of disdain. The fact that Cheri calls us blind loyal Bushies is fine with the liberals -- you know because it's all true (in their heads). We're simply too stupid to take offense, I mean how dare us see them as mean spirted, hateful people.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 1:39pm EDT
Cheri - now that you've seen more than a few FACTUAL quotes from the Kansas governern, are you ready to admit you were wrong about the shortage of National Guard, or will you still be repeating that lie? Just curious.
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Suzi :Two sides to every story May 23, 2007, 1:51pm EDT
Don,
If you can ever refrain from name-calling such as, "morons", then maybe we'd take you a bit more seriously. Try and develop a higher intellectual level, and you might even, grudgingly, get some respect for your far right opinions.
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Suzi :Two sides to every story May 23, 2007, 2:02pm EDT
Charles,
I'd like to view your profile. You have some interesting articles, but no credentials. How about sharing?
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 2:05pm EDT
Suzi:

Before I uttered the words 'moron' and 'stupid', I had to tolerate the following:


FROM CHERI:
"What keeps his "Bushies" so loyal?"

"those who follow someone blindly"

"People with no conscience or morals"

"poster child for complete ineptitude"



FROM RON W.:
"I am not sure that he is not just as ruthless, and just as evil. The characteristics that you speak of make for the perfect fascist operatives."

"See you at Gestapo headquarters, Cheri."



FROM SAM C.:
"These people truly believe their divine destiny is to make the world a colorful, wider extension of the USA consumer driven Judeo-Christian culture with a new class of oil oligarghs nestled at the top."



FROM JANICE:
"I know Don will try to "explain" it to us all in his usual charming, misguided way."


FROM JOAN:
" Oh Hugh? I mean.. Don H? When exactly is your report-for-duty date again?"

"Your repetitious spouting of previously-debunked Republic talking points is getting soooooooo last week, Snookiedimples *yawn*"

" Never Elected, Donnie, Dear."


FROM SUZI:

"wish I were friends with the Diebold manufacturers"


-------------

With that said, where is your sense of fairness? Why do you people always point out my harsh statements, but overlook them when the come from your side FIRST???? I don't get that.
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Stella Blue May 23, 2007, 2:35pm EDT
Yes, yes, yes.... I will agree and then I will digress.

Yes, there has been mass incompetence. These people were put in place becasue of their loyalty. They would just march lockstep with whatever Rove told them to do.
What you see more here is not just incompetence but more so an administration which has had absolutely no oversight.
The GOP ran both the house and the Senate. Any investigations were absolutely squelched. The media has been absolutely complicit. Hiring their buddies, or loyal contriburtors. Giving out no bid contracts to Haliburton, that did not even fulfill those contracts to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Now they will just run off to Dubai with cash in hand and no one will do a thing.

There has been so much corruption, cronyism and plain bald-faced looting the coffers that it is mind blowing. The legislative body that was supposed to be doing the oversight was too busy whith their own corrupt paws in the cookie jar to actually do their job. (Not that the GOP memebers ever actually intended to not give Bush every little cent he ever asked for, or for that matter every over-reaching and unconstiutional power he might desire). Then when questionas actually are asked, they claim to not remember or that the information is top secret

The one thing I am grateful for is that this administration has been so blatantly thumbing their nose at the American people and at the rule of law that even most of the die hard conservative have jumped ship.

There were quite a few people who I tangled with over the Admin, Sadam, OBL, WMDs......
Every single one has recently capitulated. Turns out the only ones who havent abamdoned ship now are emotional conservatives like Hugh and Don. They have an emotional investment on believing that their side is "the Good guys' and the facts be damned
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 2:52pm EDT
Christine,,, or Stella, whatever personality you go by these days.... sorry to inform you but the Presidents ratings are higher than your newly elected majority in congress. Please explain that to me?

I know why Bush's ratings are down, but it's not for the reasons liberals claim.
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Joan D. May 23, 2007, 3:31pm EDT
George W. Bush will go down in history as the worst president never elected.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 3:42pm EDT
Dear, dear Don,

Bless your heart. For every action, there is a reaction. We are all familiar with your hatred of everyone who disagrees with you. You have a reputation. That said, I didn't say anything mean. Aren't you the one who tells everyone to stop whining? Well....

The National Guard has a system for filling quotas in recruiting, and they like to fix the numbers, any army wife can tell you that. If they don't do that, the units are closed down or moved permanently. But I bet you come from that enlightened school who believes wives don't count for much in the grand scheme. Your enlightenment always astounds.

Oh and Don, do a double take, Babe. Which comment came first mine or yours? Is there a rule that every comment I make is directed at you? I missed that in the terms and conditions. We all know it won't take you long to hunt and peck your ideas at us with vehemence and venom. That reputation of yours is not for being a straight shooter, but a bitter little man who screams then whines when someone talks back. We are not your children. You can go castigate people in real life. Around here, we can just delete your attitude from our minds. Ah, the beauty of the computer.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 3:48pm EDT
I need to run back a quick apology. Mine wasn't first Don. Oops. I'm just so used to being attacked for my views with you around. So sorry. Not for the comment. You are a hatemonger. But for the mistake about my not responding to your comments. I was indeed. Must have gotten it mixed up with the threads when I wasn't talking to you and you barked anyway. Again, sorry for the mix up.
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Stella Blue May 23, 2007, 3:54pm EDT
First of all, their approval ratings are neck and neck. The only one that rates Bush higher than Congress is your beloved FOX.
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Stella Blue May 23, 2007, 3:56pm EDT
Secondly, Congress's rating was higher. Since they have decided to put their political interests above the interests of their constituents and play these games with caving into w their ratings have dropped. Frankly I am pissed at them too.
If they would like to improve their ratings they should impeach the chimp.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 4:07pm EDT
The chimp? Stella, is there any reason to insult chimps everywhere? Really. They have it bad enough with the jungle crisis and all that swinging they have to do all day. Sensitivity is needed here. If you prick chimps, do they not bleed (and scream and hit you with a banana). Poor chimps. lol
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 4:13pm EDT
I fail to see how a democratic state congress can influence a FEMA problem. Nor can I imagine what state congressional leaders in Louisiana or Florida had to do with the governor's decisions. Congress isn't really built to deal in a national disaster. That is the governor's position and FEMA's. The president also has some say in there. All congressmen and women can do is vote. They don't direct the supplies or allocate the trailers.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 4:53pm EDT
Ah, yes, my beloved FOX. How could I forget? Thank you for correcting me.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 5:04pm EDT
Mitch, much as I want the SOB to pay, I think the question is how. He's keeping just this side of legal on so many issues. Lord, I wish he had a girlfriend or was secretly keeping a male lover or participated in dog fighting. Anything! Maybe we'd see some changes in the "blind" part of that loyalty.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 5:04pm EDT
What does 'nailed to a wall' mean, and what behavior?

Bush hasn't done anything wrong. Everyone here should know that this congress is now known as "The Oversight Congress."

"They are targeting a sweep of people and issues. Some are high-profile, such as the leaking of Valerie Plame's CIA identity or the U.S. attorney firings, subjects that make for compelling cable news dramas.

But many more are mundane: inefficiency at the federal crop insurance program or conflicts of interest in FDA contracting. Some are pragmatic, such as an examination of food safety following outbreaks of illness caused by contaminated peanut butter and spinach. Others are tragic: the death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman and the misleading information the military provided to his family."


What we have noticed all along, despite all the cries of "Impeach Bush" these past six years, is that Bush is an honorable man trying to do the right thing. Nobody has ever tried to bring charges against the President short of maybe one or two far-left congress folk.

Two full terms served honorably.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 5:13pm EDT
Clearly, I've won this debate. I hope you moonbats have learned your lesson.
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 5:23pm EDT
Wait a minute Don...I didn't call you anything. If you take offense to those words in my aritcle as personal.....that's your problem. I did not aim that at anyone except those listed in the article. You wrote:

"Before I uttered the words 'moron' and 'stupid', I had to tolerate the following:"

"What keeps his "Bushies" so loyal?"

"those who follow someone blindly"

"People with no conscience or morals"

"poster child for complete ineptitude"

No where does it say your name....does it? So, if you think I took the time to personally write those things about you....what does that say about you? And did I call you a moron or stupid? Don't think so.
What you have to endure is in your own mind.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 5:25pm EDT
Just the same, I did not call you anything either.
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John Coonen May 23, 2007, 5:44pm EDT
Well, good news is, there's an election upcoming. Bad news is, Hillary's the frontrunner. If you get a chance to watch last weekend's Meet the Press, you'll witness a fantastic, respectful debate between Senator Dodd (a much more competent Democrat than Senator Clinton), and Newt Gingrich.

No matter your politics, this is a valuable piece of video for you.

Here is a transcript: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18720045/

(If it matters at all, I'm an Independican - I lean right, but don't trust the parties at all any more, though I'm a political consultant)
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 6:17pm EDT
John - I keep saying that I am waiting for Newt to get in the race.

Dodd would be a huge improvement over Hillary, that's for sure.
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Don(time to open them FEMA camps) S. May 23, 2007, 6:26pm EDT
I'll call you names , if that's what you want donnyboy.
Can't wait till 2008.
My personal favorite Impeach bush/cheney NOW!!!!
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Suzi :Two sides to every story May 23, 2007, 7:36pm EDT
Don,
When you say "you dense morons never get it", and refer to the respondents as "moonbats", that is a direct verbal assault. It is demeaning and certainly not part of a constructive conversation. The remarks made from others are directed at the current administration and some of the policies. If you take that personally, then I have to wonder why. Any light you can shed on your behavior? Why are you attacking people for their beliefs? That will certainly not sway any of the readers to your way of thinking. Being antagonistic just puts the rest of us on the defensive and the discussion goes nowhere. Or is that the point? distraction from the issues?
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Capt Seaweed May 23, 2007, 9:52pm EDT
Poor Don H,

Awash in a sea of blinded hypocrites who are willing to compromise their integrity by calling down his rehtoric whilst accepting the counter position as perfectly legit. It is the arrogance of the left that gives no credence to opposing ideas and forces a defensive posture so as to move the opposition into useless emotional responses and thereby avoid having to continue the debate with real possible solutions. It is from these types of leftist individules clearly identifying themselves herein as victims unable to fend for themselves and totaly willing to depend themselves on a goverment entity to solve thier problems that has brought this once great nation to the brink of extinction. As exampled by Amelies comment stateing... " who do I talk to about my Aunt's house, the house that was in hers/our family for many generations, the one that is no longer there!". Why would anyone surmise that any goverment should have any offering of anykind for obligation to that disaster save if the house had national historical relevance. The types of individules forfiet there freedoms and responsibilities turning themselves over to third party interest and then whine when thier issues are not handled like they would have been had they handled them themselves.

I salute you Don for standing in the firering line.
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Rude D. May 23, 2007, 9:56pm EDT
Am I to understand that Brownie did a fantastic job in Florida but to hell with New Orleans? Politics?
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Genine Hopkins May 23, 2007, 10:17pm EDT
Gosh, the level of animosity can get quite bitter. I have been a loyal American, but there are some serious issues besides the finger pointing on which came first, the blunder or the Bush. The most important issues revolve around the dissolution of much of our nation's greatest document, the Constitution. If one is to believe that Bush did this out of the kindness of his heart and the most noble intentions for our government and nation, then one must be able to assume that no emergency situation will occur until after the 2008 election. If this is so, then Don, do you really want to see a Democratic President, if the election takes place and they win, have such sweeping powers as Bush gave the office? I would say a resounding "No!" This goes for me too. I don't want any one person to have such power over the great nation of America. Pick up a copy of mon fuher's, I mean Bush's latest decree; it may cause the hairs on the back of your neck to stand on end. The thought of Hillary having absolute control over all branches of the government during a national disaster should upset the hell out of you.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:22pm EDT
"Am I to understand that Brownie did a fantastic job in Florida but to hell with New Orleans? Politics?"

Rude -- when I wrote UNPRECEDENTED in caps, it was to get through thick skulls like yours, and still I did not make my point. To be explicit, NO, it was not politics, rather it was a disaster on a scale we've not ever seen in this country.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 10:29pm EDT
"a direct verbal assault"

Suzi -- I could easily be 'clever' with implicit insults, but I choose to be direct. I've already replied to this issue in a comment above. Please re-read if you didn't get it the first time. The attacks, direct or otherwise were not started by me.
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Capt Seaweed May 23, 2007, 10:43pm EDT
Geine,

re "have such sweeping powers as Bush gave the office?" I assume you are refering to the office of the President. If so please name the new powers that Bush has assigned to that office otherwise please stick with realty and not imagined conspiracies. We still live in a Nation that has a bloodless revolution every 4 years. Its not hard to change the way the wind blows. What will prove to be hard is to heal the division that has been created by bias and intollerance between a people that have way to much in common to be chastising each other and thereby put the common good and future in jepardy. But there is hope. We healed the wounds before in the late 1800s. Lets just hope the anger dies down so we can heal again before it comes another civil armed conflict. Our global enimies must watch with delight knowing that with enough time and no course correction America will soon follow in the footsteps of past historical empires and end up on the trash heap of "could have beens" .
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 10:49pm EDT
My good friend Bill stopped me at work today to talk about the issue of blind loyalty. He suggested that blind loyalty is a co-dependent situation. I think he may be right.

This is an interesting quote out today: LAT: David Iglesias, one of the fired U.S. attorneys, calls Attorney General Alberto Gonzales "just another morally rudderless political operative" and urges him to step down before Congress passes a no-confidence vote against him
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Joe T. May 23, 2007, 10:54pm EDT
Not to get off the topic - but did anyone hear that Gonzales might be in trouble over an extramarital affair?
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 11:17pm EDT
No I hadn't heard that. I wish affairs weren't involved in politics. Its really his wife's place to deal with that. I'm sure she could end his career a lot faster than w can with a cast iron skillet. I felt the same way about Clinton. If Hillary doesn't care, why should I? He isn't my husband.
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Cheri Cabot May 23, 2007, 11:28pm EDT
Joe...I didn't hear that....but maybe that would be the catalyst needed to boot him out. It seems like many "conservative Christians" can tolerate ineptitude, lying, and as Iglesias said "morally rudderless political operatives" but they take offense to cheating on your spouse.

....go figure....

how about cheating the American public?

and you are welcome to change the subject anytime!
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 11:31pm EDT
Don, you spend the majority of your time on Gather pointing insults at groups, creeds, individuals , etc. Most of us just don't take you seriously. Usually when you enter a discussion it degenerates immediately. That does not mean you win. It means you are badly behaved.

The only reason I stopped to comment is because I am sick to death of the belittling of the loss of life in New Orleans. I can't imagine the terror of being stuck there in the middle of the flooding, and the majority could not get out. But rightwingers always seem to think that since they have a nice SUV that everyone has one. Right? Or at least some little thing that you use to get out to the country once in a while. These are the REAL working class of this country. The ones who can't get out of the way when simple minded, apathetic rich guys come in and rearrange the world to their purposes.

That hurricane was not as you imply unexpected. Our government cut corners on the lives of the citizens of New Orleans. Any idiot knows fives happen, unless taxpayer dollars are in the balance. That's when threes become most likely. That city was left to itself.

Beyond that it's a major shipping center. If we don't have the good damn sense to protect our own interests by putting up an adequate wall, then maybe the gene pool can do with fewer of us. Sorry. But that wall should have been built correctly. Children are dead thanks to the politicians who determined that wall's capacity and the engineers who did what they were told. How many lives would have been saved, if someone had just put up the right damn wall? It's just senseless. But I forgot, you wouldn't care.
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Joe T. May 23, 2007, 11:33pm EDT
Great comment about New Orleans, Janice.
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 23, 2007, 11:38pm EDT
Thank you. Sorry. Katrina gets me going.

I know it's strongly worded, but it is strongly felt. People in this country like to pretend things away. It's why so much debt and financial ruin happens here. We think that it can be THIS bad, but I really want this thing over here. I'll just plan for THIS bad and see how far I get.
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Don (is it 2010 yet?) H. May 23, 2007, 11:52pm EDT
"But I forgot, you wouldn't care."

I sent around $400 to Red Cross (for which I regret doing, by the way), so for you to judge me as not caring is false. What you fail to see is that the insults are fired AT conservatives (particularly supporters of Bush) with sentiments exactly like what you just said; we have our SUVs and assume everybody else does and we just don't care. That was the tone of this article and the comments. I don't set the tone. Look within to see why I seem so harsh.
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Capt Seaweed May 23, 2007, 11:55pm EDT
Janice,

Think of how many lives would have been saved if people had the good damn sense to not live below sea level!

Also I happen to be part of that REAL working class and I resent your arrogance that implies that I can't own a nice SUV.
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Capt Seaweed May 24, 2007, 12:02am EDT
Janice,
Did you not see the pictures of the hundreds of busses all parked neatly side by side in water up the the windows. Don't tell me...... Bush hid all the keys and refused to let his oil buddies sell gasoline to the city.
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Sean Mac May 24, 2007, 1:50am EDT
Good article cheri! The fact that the usual neocons are in a tizzy about just proves you are on the right track. Whether they like it or not, change is coming, and they're just going to have to get used to that. All the neocons should move to Russia, they would love Putin because they love Bush so much - a dictator. I love to see them kicking and screaming for once instead of waving the finger in the air and collecting money at everyone else's expense. You had a long run neocons and you screwed it up royally, now reap the whirlwind.
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Machiavelli Dayupay May 24, 2007, 2:35am EDT
Blind loyalty is very argumentative because part of it builts the very structure of our society and academy...

When we think of blind loyalty, we think of a loyalty... which in its very nature is a formula or good foundation of any enterprise in a family, organization, business and leadership.

In the case of President Bush of direct support for Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court position. We could never knew if there is an agenda or that Mrs. Harriet Miers unqualified. It is not always applicaple to make conclusion to that having a qualified achievements means that your are the right for the proposition or that you are that able. So does the idea of Mrs. Harriet Miers of being picked by President George Bush for Supreme court position even having a lacking as inferred by a denying group of public yet within the progresive possibility of being one... In scholastic side she is educated enough and being qualified is supported by the ideals of leadership... from which one cannot be denied or be accountable to the fact... that she, as being to be in the highest position in the US Supreme Court is immediately accountable to be immediately unqualified with only by the benefit of few political doubts... hahaha...

Wouldn't you argue or shout and shout if a policeman dragged and fined you of traffic violation... when in truth--you neve have done any. hehehe...

Bush is supporting the war in IRAQ is an argument of GREATNESS for his achievement and RIGHTEOUSNESS and DEMOCRACY to be promulgated by a country with that capability in that gven time... Well, He fired Rumsfeld I support that. Maybe he find Rumsfeld as threat and a failure for the people of America than to the War in IRAQ.

BUSH terms is all about Leadership and Stability of a Nation under fire...
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Machiavelli Dayupay May 24, 2007, 2:51am EDT
A Country and a Leader-------------IN THE LINE OF FIRE.

(ps. disregard typos)
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Janice (What Would Buffy Do?)B. May 24, 2007, 7:18am EDT
Mr. Seaweed? The people in N.O. left behind had cars and gas? Wow. You read comments as carefully as Don does. Resent away. No way you were sitting your ass in that dome waiting for those buses to fire up, or we wouldn't be talking about it.
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Cheri Cabot May 24, 2007, 7:28am EDT
If water was up to thier windows....how would they be able to drive them anyway.....? Did I miss somethng here?
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