" The Lord has given to every man his work. It is his business to do it, and the devil's business to hinder him if he can. So sure as God has given you a work to do, Satan will try to hinder you. He may present other things more promising. He may allure you by worldly prospects, he may assult you with slander, torment you with false accusations, set you to work defending your character, employ pious people to lie about you, editors to assail you, and excellent men to slander you. You may have Pilate and Herod, Ananias and Caiaphas all combined against you, and Judas standing by you ready to sell you for 30 pieces of silver; and you may wonder why all those things come upon you. Can you not see that the whole thing is brought about through the craft of the devil? To draw you off from your work and hinder your obedience to God?
Keep about your work. Do not flinch because the lion roars; do not stop to stone the devil's dogs; do not fool away your time chasing the devil's rabbits. Do your work. Let liars lie, let sectarians quarrel, let corporations resolve, let editors publish, let the devil do his worst; but see to it that nothing hinders you from fulfilling the work that God has given you.
He has not sent you to make money. He has not commanded you to become rich. He has never bidden you to defend your character. He has not set you at work to contradict falsehood which Satan and his servants may start to peddle. If you do these things, you will do nothing else; you will be at work for yourself and not for the Lord.
Keep about your work. Let your aim be as steady as a star. Let the world brawl and bubble. You may be assaulted, wronged, insulted, slandered, wounded and rejected; you may be abused by foes, forsaken by friends and despised and rejected of men, but see to it with steadfast determination, with unfaultering zeal, that you pursue the great purpose of your life and object of your being, until at least you can say," I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do."
( Author Unknown)
Will I ever be able to stop stoning the devil's dogs and stop chasing the devil's rabbits? My walk with Christ is far from perfect! I may be the very least! I haven't quit the good race, but I get sidetracked all too often! I find it much harder to stay on track at Gather, then I do in the real world, but is there really a difference? Thanks for the prayers, I need them, but I'm tirering of dusting myself off. I'm already looking for a stone! God help me!
Titus 2:2, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. 3:2-11
Prov.9:8 " Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee!"
Prov. 9:12 "A scorner loveth not one that repoveth him: neither will he go unto the wise."
Please, Lord, remove all the stones along the path I walk, because I am weak, and I can not keep up my work, but stop to constantly stone the devils dogs and chase the devils rabbits. Give me strenth and resolve. I thank you for this in advance, Lord Jesus!
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Comments: 49
And do not let those who throw ones at you without realizing that you are repenting bother you. That is their loss, not yours.
We all must allow the Great Gift of Gods Love to guide our lives on the pathway towards God. We must allow the Love of God to fill ours lives, live in it and share it with all the world.
I especially identified with your statement : "My walk with Christ is far from perfect! I may be the very least! I haven't quit the good race, but I get sidetracked all too often!"
How well I know it!
I'm praying for you, every day. Don't let them get to ya! We'll stop dusting ourselves off when we reach the finish line, see you there!!!!
That's not quite true. Yes there are words from others in his article, but he is incorporating them into his own comments. As you should be able to clearly see, his own words are also there.
You gotta be fair, right?
The truth is that christians try to push their religion on others because they are really still trying to convince themselves that they are not wasting their lives believing in a fictional being.
I have no problem with you believing whatever you want to believe even if it's an invisible man. Just keep it to yourself, that's all we ask.
One of the neatest things about the Gospels is the way jesus surprised everyone who had expectations about him.
The Atheist group thinks that you are bitter, intrusive, and hateful under the guise of "caring" about them.
And you confirm it every day.
Do you really thnk that someone like Justin will reach for the "loving hands" of Jesus if he expects Jesus to be like you?
Thank you for your gracious compliment on your last thread. I do try to have civil conversations/debates with you Louis most of the time, but damn...You are aggravating sometimes....More power to ya...it's your belief and it is your right to voice it, as is mine to disagree....Anyway...
I'm more than sure you have heard this already, if not actually watched it. I am also sure you have a Louis "twist" to it so for the sake of all the people that disagree with you, and for yourself, for that matter; I am curious about your response to this...
Excellent interview if you care to read it.....Anderson Cooper and Christopher Hitchens:
COOPER: In the book "God Is Not Great," what is -- I mean, what is your problem with religion? I'm sure that you have been asked this question a million times.
HITCHENS: Oh, yes, I have.
COOPER: I just want to read something from the book.
You said: "Religion poisons everything. As well as a menace to civilization, it's become a threat to human survival."
Why do you see religion as purely a destructive force?
HITCHENS: It can't keep itself to itself. It has to go out and try and convert others, try to impose itself on others.
For example, if you take one case, the present pope says, OK, AIDS in Africa is bad, but condoms, much worse. That is going to mean a lot of people will die for a dogma of this kind.
The present pope is also saying we should teach children about hell all over again. That's ruined the lives and childhoods of millions of people. It's a wicked thing to be saying. And it's a falsehood as well.
COOPER: But can you be...
HITCHENS: Cartoonists in Denmark can't do their job without death threats, believable ones, serious ones, attempts to sabotage the whole Danish economy.
Settlers on the West Bank are trying to bring on the messiah and try for Armageddon, and bring on the end of the world. They won't leave us alone. So, I think that it's time that people who are secular and skeptical banded together a bit and said, enough already.
COOPER: Do you see any benefit to believing in a God?
HITCHENS: I don't personally.
COOPER: Any positive impact on society?
HITCHENS: No.
I like religious music. And there are several religious poets. John Donne and George Herbert, I suppose, would be the main ones, without whom I couldn't do and I couldn't manage. Gothic architecture. Not so much devotional painting, I must say.
But that's cultural. And we owe religion a lot in that respect, for art. And, of course, we all have our transcendent moments. But I'm not going to be told what to do by people of so-called faith.
And I do think we have a perfectly good alternative tradition, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Albert Einstein, Spinoza, the rationalists, even the Greeks. Science is just as beautiful, if not more so.
COOPER: I want to read something else from the book:
"Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge."
There are, though -- I mean, your view of religion seems to be the -- the extremes, or the fundamentalists in all faiths.
Do you not see anyone who believes in rationality or reason, who questions...
(CROSSTALK)
HITCHENS: I'm not talking about the extremists.
I mean, people like Aquinas and Augustine, the great fathers of the church, had no idea of germ theory of disease. So, they thought disease was a punishment, or a plague was a punishment from God for wickedness, or, sometimes, it had been started by the Jews.
They believed in astrology. They believed in limbo for the souls of unborn children. They -- they had no knowledge of the cosmos at all. They didn't even know that the Earth goes around the sun.
But we have minds. And, so, people will often prefer a conspiracy explanation to none at all.
COOPER: And, yet, though, today...
HITCHENS: Or a mad one to none at all.
But now we have outgrown all that. We don't need it. My kids know more about the natural order than Aquinas did.
COOPER: And, yet, people still want religion in their lives. They want a belief in their lives.
HITCHENS: I'm not trying to take it away from them.
They mustn't think that they have any divine permission to intervene in mine. That's where the law -- sorry -- the line will be crossed. And that's why I have written a book urging the secular to stick up for themselves more, in the confidence that there are many more of us than the religious people think.
COOPER: Would the world be a better place without religion?
HITCHENS: Certainly it would, yes, if such a thing were possible.
I really have to argue against myself, in a way, here. I know that that will never happen. And, in some ways, I would miss it if it all went away.
But this is an argument about all the most important things, where we come from, what's the meaning of life, what are our duties to one another so forth. I just think you can do this perfectly ethically without any appeal to the supernatural. And I think that's been proved repeatedly. You think of the character of people like Spinoza or Einstein, you're talking about morally exemplary people.
But, if you think of the character of about half of the known popes, imams, mullahs, rabbis and so on, you will find people -- incitements to most appalling evil and bigotry all over the place.
Northern Ireland has just recovered today from, what -- beginning to recover -- 25 years of too much religion.
COOPER: The book is "God Is Not Great." It is incredibly well- read -- written, and no doubt will provoke a lot of thought.
As far as in the future, maybe a little politics next time, this religious shit is wearing me out...LOL...Later.....;.
I agree with the interveiw that you provided, at least in essence. I'm one of those "Born Again" people as well, so I guess you might find that a strange admission coming from me.
I realize your an atheist. I've read many of your comments. I realize your mind is made up, and I respect your position and choice. So, when I say this, understand that I am only adding to the conversation and not trying to change your mind or coerce you into converting. It's your right to beleive as you do and I respect that.
I agree that religion is devisive, and in general can be a very destructive thing. And I know full well that many through out history have used their various religious beleifs to justify committing unspeakable acts of inhumanity and evil. Christian and non-christian.
First, The Bible, beleif in Jesus, Christianity,ect. are indeed devisive. The Bible even says so.
51 "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;
52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.
53 "They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
New American Standard Bible : 1995 Update. LaHabra, CA : The Lockman Foundation, 1995, S. Lk 12:51-53
And this expanation from a comentary on Luke 12:51-53
2. He tells those about him that they also must bear with hardships and difficulties (v. 51): "Suppose ye that I came to give peace on earth, to give you a peaceable possession of the earth, and outward prosperity on the earth?'' It is intimated that they were ready to entertain such a thought as this, nay, that they went upon this supposition, that the gospel would meet with a universal welcome, that people unanimously embrace it, and would therefore study to make the preachers of it easy and great, that Christ, if he did not give them pomp and power, would at least give them peace; and herein they were encouraged by divers passages of the Old Testament, which speak of the peace of the Messiah's kingdom, which they were willing to understand of external peace. "But,'' saith Christ, "you will be mistaken, the event will declare the contrary, and therefore do not flatter yourselves into a fool's paradise. You will find,''
(1.) "That the effect of the preaching of the gospel will be division.'' Not but that the design of the gospel and its proper tendency are to unite the children of men to one another, to knit them together in holy love, and, if all would receive it, this would be the effect of it; but there being multitudes that not only will not receive it, but oppose it, and have their corruptions exasperated by it, and are enraged at those that do receive it, it proves, though not the cause yet the occasion of division. While the strong man armed kept his palace, in the Gentile world, his goods were at peace; all was quiet, for all went one way, the sects of philosophers agreed well enough, so did the worshippers of different deities; but when the gospel was preached, and many were enlightened by it, and turned from the power of Satan to God, then there was a disturbance, a noise and a shaking, Eze. 37:7. Some distinguished themselves by embracing the gospel, and others were angry that they did so. Yea, and among them that received the gospel there would be different sentiments in minor things, which would occasion division; and Christ permits it for holy ends (1 Co. 11:18), that Christians may learn and practise mutual forbearance, Rom. 14:1, 2.
(2.) "That this division will reach into private families, and the preaching of the gospel will give occasion for discord among the nearest relations'' (v. 53): The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father, when the one turns Christian and the other does not; for the one that does turn Christian will be zealous by arguments and endearments to turn the other too, 1 Co. 7:16. As soon as ever Paul was converted, he disputed, Acts 9:29. The one that continues in unbelief will be provoked, and will hate and persecute the one that by his faith and obedience witnesses against, and condemns, his unbelief and disobedience. A spirit of bigotry and persecution will break through the strongest bonds of relation and natural affection; see Mt. 10:35; 24:7. Even mothers and daughters fall out about religion; and those that believe not are so violent and outrageous that they are ready to deliver up into the hands of the bloody persecutors those that believe, though otherwise very near and dear to them. We find in the Acts that, wherever the gospel came, persecution was stirred up; it was every where spoken against, and there was no small stir about that way. Therefore let not the disciples of Christ promise themselves peace upon earth, for they are sent forth as sheep in the midst of wolves.
Henry, Matthew: Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible : Complete and Unabridged in One Volume. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1996, c1991, S. Lk 12:41
This divisiveness is suppose to happen, to the point where, like your interveiw states, people will hate religion and want to destroy it and it's followers (paraphrased).
The Bible also predicts that this will continue until the Anti-christ appears. He will create peace between religions and finally, in the middle east. No one will acomplish this until the Anti-christ appears. The anti-christ will establish a one world government and religion, one in which all adherants of various religions will happily throw away thier old religions and worship the Anti-christ as God.
So, Hitchens will get his way, eventually. But it will only last three and a half years, before the Anti-crhist reveils his true nature, the hater of God and those made in His image, all mankind.
Now you certainly don't have to beleive this, you can watch it happen for yourself, or maybe your children will get to see it, as it's likely to happen soon.
Christianity is indeed devisive!
Lastly, should Christians and other religious people be kept from spreading thier "poison" to others? I doubt that you have that point of veiw, noting your military service, fighting for our freedoms. I'm sure you might like some releif from us, but not to the point of restricting the freedom of others, because you probably know full well that if that happens, it could happen to you as well.
I know that we can be very obnoxious and less than respectful of others beleifs. We kind of see it like this: We see a person sitting on the train tracks with his back to the oncoming train. We don't have a lot of time to argue him off the tracks, and he seems oblivious to his danger. Because of this we sometimes take inappropriate measures to remove him from the danger that he freely put himself into.
So for my part, I appoligize for the inappropriate actions of my brothers and sisters in trying to evangelize you. We all mean well, but we are imperfect. Many people tend to blame our God for our actions, but the faults are ours not His. Personally, I can't tell right off the bat if I'm talking to someone who doesn't want to hear it, but when they make it clear, I respect them and back off, unless they re-invite me. And I know that Louis and others post thier articles on what would seem to others to be inappropriate groups. I think they are tring to reach out to those who have not completely made up their minds, not to people like you who have made up their minds already. I could be wrong about that. I don't feel the need to do that, as I can see, plenty of non-beleivers like to read and argue in Christian groups. I'm content with that.
I'd like to thank you, for your military service, I know it was a great sacrifice, and that many were not treated well for that. That should never have been. I appreciate what you did. I know of several brothers of my friends who came back in bad shape. My uncle served in Nam, and came back unable to be close to his family afterwards. Again, thank you for your service.
I ment no sarcasm in anything I said, I hope you see it that way too. And I'm looking forward to reading more from you in the future.
I must admit, that was the most eloquent and respectful description of faith and the reasoning behind it that I have heard in a long time. I guess the things that really stick in my mind the most are things such as the Anti-christ, one-world religion, all the things that Christians seem to expect to happen in the somewhat near future.
It amazes me that people haven't considered the fact that said person will not be the Anti-christ, so to speak, just a sick, twisted, demented individual who will attempt in their own way to destroy life as we know it....e.g. Hitler, Mussolini and the list goes on. In today's political circus, you could even include Bush, but that's a stretch...He's just an asshole who doesn't have his priorities straight...Then again, Armadinajad...Well he's a definite candidate, but I don't see him as being a healer to the Middle East, more like the destroyer of it, in the long run....
The biggest problem with religion as in politics is it's just a matter of interpretation/twist...I have NO problem with people of faith whatsoever. I realize full well everyone needs something to believe in, in order for their life to have meaning and substance. I have TOTAL respect for that. Never have I, or would I ask my wife or anyone for that matter to denounce their faith, it's the gas that keeps the engine running for most of humanity. And just like there is Gasoline, Deisel, Propane...etc, etc....I just happen to have a different fuel that guides my intellect, reasoning, thought processes and beliefs....
I appreiciate your attempt to not change my mind or insult my beliefs, but to simply state what in some cases could very well happen, although I don't think so. Who knows. You see it differently than most I speak with. The way I look at it is...If I'm on the tracks and the train is approaching, then I'm one of two things, STUPID or somewhere along the way I have made a choice or a decision that has affected my life in a negative way and will result in harm...Whichever, I deserve it, and if I survive it, I'll be that much better for the experience and I'll definetly make it a point to stay away from train tracks.
Thank You very much, for your appreiciation concerning my service...Believe me it was a pleasure, a duty, and an honor to serve and help protect our country and our way of life. Although not always a lot of fun, it also payed me back 10 times as far as being a principaled, concerned, motivated, and disiplined individual.
You have absolutely nothing to apoligize for...As I said earlier, you stated your case with class and respect and my hat's off to you, I realize that nothing you said was meant in anyway but a positive one. And as you, I also look forward to future discussions with you...Thanks...
You said:
When we went for a new car, Dad chose a red sporty car, but I picked out a small station wagon that I thought would be more practical. The old me would have chosen a red sports car, but I know it was the Holy Spirit who caused me to desire the more practical vehicle and that is the one he bought. As it turned out, that station wagon became a real blessing.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe your choice just had to do with the fact that YOU were growing up, becoming more mature and responsible; and realizing that it was time to make a practical decision instead of a selfish one?????
We all play the game, and you know as well as I do that you can interpret every verse in the Bible to fit your belief as can I....So it just boils down to what we both believe in. I twist it, you twist it, they twist it...Whomever....But no matter how you twist it, unless you were there 2,000 yrs ago next to Moses when he recieved the Commandments (???) You don't know how THEY twisted it
Excerpt from the Cooper/Hitchens interview:
Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge."
I mean, people like Aquinas and Augustine, the great fathers of the church, had no idea of germ theory or disease. So, they thought disease was a punishment, or a plague was a punishment from God for wickedness, or, somehow, it had been started by the Jews.
They believed in astrology. They believed in limbo for the souls of unborn children. They -- they had no knowledge of the cosmos at all. They didn't even know that the Earth goes around the sun.
So with that in mind and realistically being the truth, how do you expect people from that day and age to explain things such as so-called ressurrection, or the parting of the sea, or an ark that sets out on a 40 day journey, or a woman who melts into a pillar of salt, and on and on....Many so called miracles have been easily explained away by solid scientific proof....Think about it, how would biblical man explain electricity, seeing the space shuttle, a car. How did they explain hurricanes, tsunamis, tornadoes; I could list a million examples of things that they couldn't explain and when they didn't have an answer they chalked it up to "God".
Actually, we do have a bible in my house, and I'm sure this will really shock you, Cheyenne was baptised. Obviously because of my wife's beliefs, not mine. Once again as I have stated before, we have an equality in my household when it comes to things like this. And yes, I have read it, and I have read it in a transcribed version that allows for much easier understanding "vs" the original biblical language.....
Your daily life is your temple and your religion.
Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.
Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute,
The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight.
For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.
And take with you all men:
For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair."
Author unknown........Well not really, but you probably wouldn't appreiciate it as much if I told you.....
"He who rules his spirit has won a greater victory than the taking of a city"
~Jesus Christ
That's the whole point Louis, your God isn't in this, but it makes very good sense doesn't it.....It's not a slam against your faith, it's a reason for not needing it...
As I have said many times before Christians live for the after-life, where they will go, will it be Heaven or Hell....Since I don't believe in either one, my life lives in the present, the here and now. What can I do while I am alive and breathing to make my life and the lives of others around me happy, pleasant, good. What can I do now to show people love, acceptance and understanding....
See, in my world Louis it's about life...Not death.....
Seeing that we are going to reference Mark, let me ask you a question...Do you really find it realistic that this could happen???
"Where can someone get enough bread in this desolate place to satisfy these people?" He asked them, "How many loaves do you have?" They replied, "Seven." Then he directed the crowd to sit down on the ground. After he took the seven loaves and gave thanks, he broke them and began giving them to the disciples to serve. So they served the crowd. They also had a few small fish. After giving thanks for these, he told them to serve these as well. Everyone ate and was satisfied, and they picked up the broken pieces left over, seven baskets full. There were about four thousand....
Ok lets get real here....
Seven loaves of bread and a few fish................4,000 people...FOUR THOUSAND PEOPLE....Does that not offend your sense of reality Louis....
If we could feed 4,000 people with seven loaves of bread I don't think Africa would be in the situation they are....What say you?
Apology accepted. Of course.
Your sarcastic wit and your ignorance have never played well with me Sandy, so what makes you think a two line comment is gonna make a difference at this point....You are an obnoxious, arrogant bitch, that just needs to stay on her side of the tracks...Unless you have something positive to add.................Yeah right, not in this lifetime......
Sandy...I didn't say anything like that....I'm not the author unknown nor did I or Louis write the bible...You need to put down the crack pipe and get with the program.... And while your at it put your debit card back in your purse, nobody is asking you to buy shit, not to mention we wouldn't sell it to you anyway.....Crawl back into your black hole/icon/avatar and leave us alone....If we want any shit from you we'll squeeze your head....
I had to make a few corrections and it put the thread out of context. You commented while I was correcting....I just had to insure that I wasn't giving any quarter there.
I reposted, as you can see, hope I didn't mess you up....
You see, the story goes, this God fella can do as He pleases when it comes to creating stuff. So naturally, ginning up a few handfuls of bread is not a real stretch for someone that thinks He brought all order in the universe into existence. That's sort of the point of the little piece you mention.
See, the Book clearly says that all of it, the whole of the story that unfolds, is played out for us, who will come later. Even the earliest parts make mention of this. It basically says you and I will have a discussion like this because of what is written in it. And that we will be led to the very deepest levels of our understanding, and integrity. That's what the Book is for.
He's telling us in that story; I know you have little capacity to believe in me, but please take what you have and give it a try. and the apostles play out the part of the skeptical mind, and say 'Hey, aren't you listening Boss? We've got a few loaves of leftover bread, that's like two small bites each, tops. These people are HUNGRY.'
He gives em that look, they roll their eyes and pick up the loaves and humor him, cause he's always coming up with some strange way of making his point. Then comes something unimaginable, something far more impressive than anyone could dream.
God is saying He will provide what you need to believe, if you will but take a small leap and ask. It may amount to nothing more than approaching the possibility in a practical way. For is it truly rational, if one is say 90% sure there is no God of which the Book speaks, to limit themselves to approaching the possibility there is, as if it were untrue, 100% of the time?
Is it not rather unscientific to leave it there? Do you fear you will go loony if you spend a few minutes exploring the ten percent chance? Why on Earth would anything significant change if there's nothing to it all? You can say you don't need to believe, but that doesn't explain why you would forever put off such a simple "dare". There's a whole lot more going on than indifference.
And that's where the animosity comes from. People want the dare to be forgotten. The fear of it does not compute. It whispers of something unimaginable.
That is the most humorous explanation of the bible I have ever read, almost good enough to make me take the "dare". I appreiciate your take/opinion on it, I also appreiciate the fact that you have taken the time to comment concerning my lack of the need to "leap"....Of all the explanations I have heard, if one was going to sway me, yours would have been the one. You have always had humor and tact and intellegent comments....Sorry, "Close, but no cigar"......
See John, it's just the many impossible situations/occurrences that happen throughout the bible that cause most intellegent and educated people to question it's validity. Not to say that you or anyone else on this thread is not intellegent or educated, it just, as I said earlier, offends MY sense of reality and logic
Good to hear from you, I been "away" for awhile.
I realize we are trampling on pragmatic sensibilities with all this, but we are talking about something beyond ordinary rules of the road. To say that story's God is unlikely is one thing, but to say the parts where He behaves like a God are the reason for doubt is not all that logical. We wouldn't call Him God, if He were not capable of extraordinary things. That's a given.
Yes, an all powerful God could do many things we would consider "unrealistic", and impossible. That's the nature of the beast. The question is simply reduced to a true or false matter. If there is a God, none of what is spoken of in the Book is beyond belief. If there is no God, it is.
So . . . you haven't got ten minutes to spare ?
Peace in any event my friend.
Ok..Ok...Yeah John I have ten minutes. BUT.....From what I have gathered (no pun intended) You can't exactly look to the heavens and ask God or Jesus to come into your life and right the wrongs, unless you TRULY, DEEP DOWN IN YOUR HEART, MEAN IT.....
Sure, I could look to the heavens and beg forgiveness and ask your lord to come into my life, but if I did, I couldn't do it in good faith, I would be doing it with false expectations and no sincerity, what good would that do???
A most excellent point. And one which held me "at bay" for years.
Thing is, that story you mentioned is saying something rather different. He isn't asking for any falseness of any kind. It is very difficult to put into words what it really means to 'believe' on him. It does not mean you have no doubt.
It's more like taking the possibility seriously, which is to say: Spending the time to formulate a truly sincere approach to Him, as if He were there. Turns out, we are capable of grasping the profound ramifications of His existence, even though we have no surety that those implications actually apply to the reality we confront.
We do this quite often in other matters. We don't approach something like driving a car with this hesitation to take into consideration that unlikely events do occur, and realize that when they happen, they will not just 'sort of happen'. We know that very real and important changes will occur, and we don't say to ourselves; "There is only a small chance I will be in a head-on collision, so I will not consider this in a serious way".
He's God, for goodness sake. You're not going to shock or disappoint Him by being honest. If He exists, He already knows where your at. He gave you your common sense, and is not frustrated because you doubt the unlikely. That's fine by Him. This is about something more subtle. It's about fear and pride.
You see, the state of mind that one would approach addressing such a Being with, is very intense. That intensity is the key. One does not swagger or put on airs in that moment. We realize that would be ludicrous in such a relationship. So a state of appropriate humility occurs. And in that state, He can enter into a dialog of His choosing, not ours. He simply will not force us, and will not over-rule our thoughts. He won't "compete" within us, our mind would mess His actions up and leave us more confused than we started out.
Another way to think of it is; Why on Earth would He want to lend His significant weight, to just any old ideas we have? If He did something profound to someone filled with their own imagination, they would surely read all sorts of silly things into the event. He ain't interested in half truths or distorted muttle. He will only touch us when we set our guesswork aside, and give His voice the attention it deserves.
To believe really means to act on. That's always what it means. We do not wait for surety before acting on the sent of smoke, we go to find out if their is a reality we ought to respond to. If you believe there might be a God, follow the scent to see if you can find out the truth.
No need to worry about looking like a fool, after all, is it not true that you are a free man, and not afraid to step out of line? If you thought there was a 10% chance that a bar of gold was under a rock in your yard, would the fear of appearing foolish stop you from discounting the 90% chance for a few minutes? Belief means you go get the shovel and quit intellectualizing. It's not that you believe the gold is there, as in surety, it's that you behave in a way that makes sense IF IT IS THERE.
As relevant and sensible as your's and John's comments are, I'm not ready or willing to take that leap.
You both present arguments that would take the average non-believer to the pews in a heartbeat. I am just not willing to give up on my beliefs at this point anymore than you are.
This has been an awesome discussion and your opinions and views are accepted and noted, as I hope mine have been. I truly enjoyed this exchange and look forward to more in the future, but for now, I think I'm just gonna kick back in my atheistic bliss and be happy with what I have in my life. A wonderful wife, a gorgeous daughter and a very happy existence, without stress or strife. Guess you could call it my "Garden of Eden", without the apple...
Talk to you all soon!!!
Todd
It's analogies, not anologies.....LMAO.....Have a great night!!!!
thanks for sharing.None of us as christians are perfect.
Dust yourself off and keep walking with the Lord.
We all need encouragement, I know I do.
I understand about making your yoke heavy.
God bless you too.
I'm glad I found you on gather.
Harvest is always ripe but where are the Laborers?
GOD Bless