Swiss staged a demonstration in Basel to oppose US hostile policies to Iran and its peaceful nuclear program. Protesters carried banners featuring "No War against Iran". Thousands of people in various countries have taken part in rallies and gatherings on multiple occasions; all have condemned US policies of harassment around the world.
"America prepares to talk with Iran after 28 years of silence " by James Hider in Baghdad and Tom Baldwin in Washington
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1723160.ece
"Condoleezza Rice held out the prospect yesterday of direct talks with her Iranian counterpart this week in what would be America’s most significant contact with the Islamic republic since ties were severed almost 30 years ago.
The US Secretary of State was speaking shortly after Iran said that Manouchehr Mottaki, its Foreign Minister, would on Thursday attend talks in Egypt on the future of Iraq.
“I will not rule out that we may encounter one another,” Dr Rice said in a series of interviews with Sunday talk shows. “This isn’t an opportunity to talk about US-Iran issues. This is really an opportunity for all of Iraq’s neighbours to talk about how to stabilise Iraq.”
The State Department has been more forthcoming, saying that there is a strong likelihood of bilateral talks in Egypt."
__________________________________________________________________________
Perhaps this indicates that the United States may adopt a more realistic policy toward Iran. There is still a sharp division within the administration regarding engagement with Iran.
Iran has demonstrated it has sought regional stability in its interest. It abandoned the goal of exporting its revolution to its Persian Gulf neighbors at the end of 1980s and has since acted as a status-quo power. It seeks influence within the existing regional power structure. It improved its relations with its Persian Gulf neighbors throughout the 1990s, and in particular normalized relations with Saudi Arabia. Iran supported the stabilization of Afghanistan in 2001 and that of Iraq during the early phase of the occupation.
The Ameriacan and Israeli hostility to Iran's influence in the region, in spite of heavy pressure on the UN, Europe , Russia , China and other nations has not found the support that they hoped for. Most nations do not consider Iran a threat to its neighbors and although they are concerned with nuclear proliferation they recognize Iran's right to develop nuclear energy. The gross distortions of speeches by Iran's President, suggesting he called for "wiping Israel off the map," have been voiced by American and Israeli politicians and repeated ad nauseam in the media, largely for an American audience. Most people (including, I expect, most Israelis) are not fooled by this propaganda. They know that Iran's official policy is not to attack any nation and that its President hasn't authority over its foreign policy. The American media rarely mentions Iran's offer to recognize Israel in 2003 and its support of the Arab 2002 peace offer to Israel.
A recent poll of 28 nations showed that most consider the United States the greatest threat to world peace. The United States' belligerent behavior toward Iran risks an unintended conflict which would undermine regional stability, jeopardize the economic gains of the Persian Gulf emirates and inflame Muslim public opinion. Bullying and sponsoring terrorist actions against Iran by the United States radicalizes the Iranian theocracy and, more important, the Iranian public.
A wise engagement policy with Iran will require patience and a change in the style and content of American diplomacy in order to create suitable environment and remove the walls of mistrust.
Washington could begin by ending its provocative naval deployments in the Persian Gulf, easing its efforts to get European and Asian banks to divest from Iran and inviting Iranian representatives to all regional and international conferences dealing with the Middle East. . The administration cannot propose negotiations while at the same talking of Iran as part of an “axis of evil” or the “central banker of terrorism” and pressuring other nations to create regional alliances to reduce Iranian influence.
If a more suitable diplomatic environment is created then the United States should propose dialogue without conditions with the aim of normalizing relations. For too long, proposed talks with Iran have focused on areas of American concern: nuclear proliferation and Iraq. A more comprehensive discussion would involve the totality of disagreements between the two countries and also address Iran’s regional interests.
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Comments: 20
However, it's good to remember that al Qaeda is the enemy, not Iran.
I have to say that if this is the type of expert analysis fueling our foreign policy, then we are in trouble! Such talk is paranoid delusional, as is talk that Iran or some coalition of terrorists could somehow conquer the world. Whether you are talking about Iran or a terrorist group it is simply naive to think that they have the power to "conquer the world" or the Middle East for that matter.
I understand your concern regarding the "morality" needed in the Islamic states, however, Islam does not have a monopoly on morality. I respect Islam and the virtues and moralities contained within; I have spent the last year studying Islamic history and am currently engaged in studying the Qu'ran. Islam has proved over its history that tolerence and enlightenment can work together to provide prosperity. It is in the notion that all people under Islamic rule must adhere to Islam's morality that a problem is posed.
Human nature is to defy authoritarian rule and the Qur'an agrees that a rule by majority is the "right path." The best way to counteract any immoral or unethical acts is to lead by example. Extremism in any belief instills fear and does not follow the path to which it allegedly espouses. To see leaders in a positive light and to allow the larger voice to the many people who truly shine by example is the best way to defeat any extremists in any faith or doctrine.
I am leery of our current administration's sudden leap on the bandwagon to open talks with any of Iraq's neighboring countries. Have they finally seen the light? I fear not, and are only trying to reverse their past failures and control the damage before the next Presidential election in the U.S.. Many voices have been begging the U.S. to listen to these nations without being heard for so long, I am suspect of the true intentions of the administration. I will, however, cross my fingers and hope for the best.
"A recent poll of 28 nations showed that most consider the United States the greatest threat to world peace. The United States' belligerent behavior toward Iran risks an unintended conflict which would undermine regional stability, jeopardize the economic gains of the Persian Gulf emirates and inflame Muslim public opinion."
This mention of yours, in your fine article Clarke, set me to wondering about DEVICES and ORGANIZATIONAL FORMS to get OUR WORLD communities more aware of WORLD dangers and prospects in the next few years. I listened to ex UN Representative Bolton (USA) a few days ago. Some things that he mentioned were about potential and needed UN reforms. I think that the survey services of the United Nations -- and then accompanying analyses and critiques by very informed persons (like you, Clarke and Abu) need to start informing us all. Did the opinion survey that you mentioned in the article have any support from the United Nations? Who did the work? Have any sessions in our striving WORLD-CONCERNED International Organization been charged with focusing upon such IMPORTANT FINDINGS, ex post facto?
I know enough about OPINION-MEASURING in the USA private sectors, along with efforts via ADVERTISING and PUBLIC RELATIONS efforts via powerful communication means, to know that in the intermediate and long run, large groups of persons MAY change their minds if the messages are truly FACTUAL, INTERESTING and well presented. ALSO -- beyond the private sector and foundation supported contributions -- Public Radio and Television, and now the multifarious modes of new wireless devices (entering the WORLDWIDE availability stages now) can work wonders at times if blended together properly. GOOGLE and other on-line gathered, analyzed and published factual information (with pictures and sound, will find improved ways to TRANSLATE messages (they are doing good translations now) and technical developments will CERTAINLY improve. The foci ought to be HARD FACT presentations. We get enough -- perhaps too much -- BLAP reporting with far too little concern for accuracy and precision.
If you do have more information about that 28 nation study, I for one would be grateful to receive some further information. perhaps you know too of work going on in Iraq to 'gather' facts and opinions too. I heard a commentator say recently (he had just returned from Iraq as I recall) saying that surveys there of the people in Iraq had been published. The bottom lines: (1) An estimated 70% or more of the people there want the USA out of Iraq and want an end to occupation efforts (I could be wrong in my recollections); and (2) They are concerned about the disruptive violence (of all types) continuing, though abating in some sectors, and would wish NOT to have rapid withdrawals of occupying troops, but orderly ones that enhance the likelihoods of a growing stability as our USA troops leave.
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Also -- and I forget the source -- I recall that I heard in an interview with President Bush a not widely distributed comment. It went something like this:
INTERVIEWER: If the Iraqis officially asked us to remove our troops, would you agree?
PRESIDENT: Of course! If their government asked us to do so, we would comply. Its their country!
The question then is this : If OPINION POLLS using sufficiently LARGE sample sizes with all the 'bells and whistles' that modern day statistical and probability theory can provide to assure accuracy and likelihood controls (technical issue relating to TYPE I and II errors) -- and authenticated by proper UN authorities as a first rate polling procedure, could the OPINIONS thus gathered FROM the people (NOT the government that is presently in control) suffice to convince the President to withdraw troops ASAP? After all, in a DEMOCRACY, aren't the PEOPLE the true CONTROLLERS?
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I would love to see a very beefed up effort within the corpus of our United Nations where it (the UN or appropriate UN agencies) would become a 'benchmark' developers, collectors, and interpreters -- by their multinational experts -- (even the relevant ambassadors) to analyze and comment broadly on factual, reliable, human opinions relating to varied settings (like DARFUR, as a further example) AND guesses about 'impacts' on the human beings in those locales and world communities as time marches on. What do you suggest -- Clarke and Abu?
Dick
I see you and raise you one, Abu:
A PROSPEROUS DYNAMIC ISLAMIC UNION, JOINED AT THE HEART WITH ALL OTHER PLANETARY UNIONS FOR THE HIGHEST GOOD OF ALL: DYNAMIC PEACE ON EARTH. PLANETARY HARMONY.
This is the end result of a Republican Admin. For years we've heard "what this country needs is a CEO, not a President." Well, we have one.
This world is coming to the end of some very long time cycles, some of which are cosmic in nature and near to 26,000 years or so ... others are much shorter ... but all have been mentioned in various occult source books over the ages (and occult is not all bad no matter what your religions will tell you).
Our present time is very trying and due to get much worse before it ever turns around for the better. Many have some severe lessons to be learned here on earth about the truths of cause and effect. Liars will experience the downside to the degree they will be 'cured' ... not all will do so during their current life though. The Spiritual realm has great wisdom, is aware of all of this and has been attempting to warn all peoples about it for ages. Very few are inclined to listen to their own intuition where that small quiet voice of their Soul will be heard.
Everyone is too distracted by the clamour of the exterior voices of this and that 'leadership authority' crying out for their attention and support. Most will scare you as they offer the solution ... false statements, false promises.
We must all begin to think more for ourselves via our own spiritual INtuition, to come to trust just that to inform you about what else to trust. Various 'leaders' may well be telling a truth from their perspective where the expected results are intended to be a certain outcome.
Some of us that would prefer a different, especially an opposite outcome would have other truths which would make someone else's truth-hood be our own false-hood.
Best to look deep withIN to see just what you really want because we each first create our own reality ... that co-created jointly with others ... and not all have the same agenda. To thine own self be true. There is so much more going on in reality than we think. And there is truly something for everyone, careful what you wish for.
Do you think that human beings can hope to exist on this planet simply by discovering there is a higher intelligence and a spiritual world? What is our purpose for being here? If we are here and higher intelligence is there, what is the next question ?
I suppose that I think that humans will continue to exist on this planet in some form or other into the foreseeable future (whatever that amounts to) but for better or worse, maybe radically so, depending upon whether they learn the spiritual truth (+=-) of the universe or not.
As it stands in Dualistic thought as (+/-), there will always be oppositions for the fearful to 'contend' with, be it person to person on 'this' level or realm, or between this realm and higher and/or lower ones of their perception if and when they allow that possibility.
I say higher or lower as regards to realms other than our temporal physical because Duality needs their opposing pairs … such as a spiritual realm(s) where one was good or divine and the other was bad or evil.
Spirits will accommodate our thoughts in that we will create them for ourselves based upon the way we think. We create our own reality based upon what we allow into it. The average religionist is a dualist, thus good and evil are the two contentions. Good sought and evil to be feared, avoided or fought. Dualists then will be divided as to which other-worldly (alien and/or spiritual) beings they felt 'related' to. Even now the religionists believe that they are dealing with the good spirits as the basis of their religion, at least it is that type spirit that is 'on their side' in such dealings. It is my view that many of such religionists are very confused or misinformed and may someday find that the spirits they are dealing with are in fact the opposite of what they now think. These are the hazards of duality, the reason that religion cautions about any 'fence sitting' … all are told they 'must' choose between the extremes, the side that is 'for' them not against them, good over evil. (+/-).
True Spirit is that of the Trinity, neither good nor bad (except in relative 'valuation' preferences by humans), that Spirit is the direct representative of God, who is also neutral in such matters. Given the Trinity concept, there is so much less to worry about because all one has to do is seek highest truth with Spirits help and it will be granted. Fear is thus no longer a factor of concern. Perfection is thus (+=-) and you can take up any role withIN that equation that suits you … you will also realize though, that what goes around comes around and that will temper just what role you will partake of.
It is my contention that the real divine spiritual realm is of the Trinity nature. It is that realm that our Soul is directly connected to, the direct and straight line connection to God. That is the very best that we can do for ourselves and each other as members of the same universal 'family'. This is very subjective and esoteric.
Yet, there are countless other more or less (relative to each other and us) spiritual realms involved with dualistic thought. It is these that would be what we might well call the extraterrestrials or alien beings. Very much more objective and exoteric … all being relative though. Within these groups there would be a mix of good and bad beings. It would be these beings that are related to life forms on other planets … most NOT just like us in physicality … most of other space/time dimensional frequencies as to make up, some even being able to willfully change such 'vibrations' to appear and disappear to us.
For these Dualistic beings of other realms, there is a spiritual awareness and respect for, the universal spiritual realm of Trinity divinity … they are aware of more divine 'rules' that are handed down from above them as to the allowable relationships to have with our planet earth and us it's inhabitants. We have been placed 'off-limits' (quarantined) to cosmic contact as a rule. That to let us learn on our own a better way of acting out towards others on a trial and error experience of cause and effect. To learn such lessons so that we can be eventually 'allowed' to have relationships with other space beings, the hope is that we will discover the value of peaceful coexistence with each other first … so as to not take our warlike ways and weapons systems out into space and cause problems there similar to what we have been doing here.
As above so below (and vice versa) … so even in the near spiritual realms of duality, there are spirits (alien beings) that will be relative criminals and break the rules. Most of what has been deemed UFO activity and other stories of 'visitations' recounted through history by certain people, have been of this 'lesser' variety.
It is my firm belief that the more hidden leaders of our world, mostly those related to the western societies, those that some of us believe to be involved with the greatest conspiracies ever, the literal control of the world, are well aware of the truth of the fact of alien visitations … these human 'leaders' may or may not be involved with occult practices as an insurance policy type relationship to these beings that they most likely fear rather than love. The great UFO cover-up, the ignoring of Crop Circles, and the 'dissing' of anybody that suggests that any of this might be 'real' is all a part of their covering up what they do not want the normal people to become aware of. I could go on and on … but will not, though I realize that these ideas are so far out that most readers would give no credibility at all to any of it already presented.
So in answer to your question, as dualists there would be no advantage to discovering the spiritual or alien realms … because we would continue to do just as we have been doing all along here … separating and dividing everything into two major opposite and often conflicting (opposing) groupings. Yes, it would drastically change our perceptions and reality, but we would still be divided between those Liberals that sought the good relationships and the Conservatives that feared … and wanted to fight them (or at least defend with weapons).
So as I see it, our purpose of being here is to experience time/space duality first hand to learn that causes do have effects, that absolutely everything is interrelated … and most importantly that Truth is God and that is a Trinity (+=-). THAT IS what IT IS ALL about. IMnsHO.
The next question would then depend upon whether or not we transcended Duality to Trinity realization or not. Those that do, will have additional and more rewarding choices, both for the duration of this lifetime, but more importantly, for the next realm.
We can relate now Dualistically and have more limited choices, maybe (probably) having to reincarnate into similar experiences again to learn what was missed this go-around, or, learn and practice Trinity here for much higher rewards in eternity.
I realize that this answer has been much more than you probably asked for, but I thought I would take the opportunity to lay it out there in case anyone wants to consider or discuss further.
As you both know, in the works of many recent philosophers there is a concern for the concept and character of iknowledge of the INTERIOR and the EXTERIOR; esoteric knowledge and exoteric knowledge.Then comes INTUITION DEVELOPMENT under the guidance of information via ideas about SOULS and SPIRITS. Intuition is some sort of a capacity that then links itself into the UNIVERSAL mind. We are ever e-volving and in-volving. Is there an END?
I look on this development of looking scientifically at the emergence of fascinating (mysterious-spiritual) THINKING and MENTALITY, as nothing more than the continuing EXTERNAL EVOLUTION of life forms, and the corresponding INNER INVOLUTION of the same life forms that accompanies and helps 'shape' what is 'coming to become' as humans continue to emerge into their new and promising NEWNESSES -- possibly forever. Ever new hierarchies!
At the root of this EVO/INVO-LUTION is the mystery of ever-becomingness to what some theologians would refer to as 'the MIND OF GOD' and the promise of developing BRAINS that are finally (perhaps) complete as properly-fully designed (by GOD/NATURE for EARTHLINGS-- take your pick) to match the IMAGE of the GOD/NATURE-MIND. You know I have labelled this process as 'C.U.P.' which for me stands for the CREATING UNIVERSAL PROCESS. Maybe I need a new representation: 'CUP | Earth'. This means a proper complete UNIVERSAL BRAIN for Earthlings.
It can, in a crude model form of thinking, be likened to the striving for the completion of a final operating ENTITY -- personkind -- where the PRESENT HUMAN BRAIN develops into a SPIRITUAL-BRAIN (for EARTHLINGS) and eventually ceases to be a bounded EARTH-BRAIN. The OTHER possible name for the SPIRITUAL-BRAIN might be the PROPER UNIVERSAL-BRAIN. That brain would be both material and spiritual and COMPLETE in the sense that it corresponds to a PROPER UNIVERSAL ALLNESS: for BOTH (invisible) THOUGHTS and (material) THINGS being represented and representable.
Is that the human purpose in process of development in our mysterious UNIVERSE? Planet specific minds, hearts and BRAINS? Evolution carrying on depositing 'stuff' via reflection and INVOLUTION? To absorb and represent ALL material realities in terms of abstract concepts representation --PRECISELY? And THEN using IMAGINATION to feed into a capacity for alterations of material realities? CREATIVITY at work to alter EVOLUTION? Where the full knowledge of EVERYTHING becomes meaningfully present in each ENTITY. What sort of an EDUCATION SYSTEM do we need on our EARTH to begin to see the potentials of this evolutionary possibility?
If so, each of us can argue that personal experiences must endlessly become representations and visualizations and then nest in the abstraction representations that BUILD the linkages and material organic structures in each of us that give each of us this grandeur -- this SPIRITUAL, INTUITIVE, MATERIALISTIC MENTALITY that will EVENTUALLY correspond to a (mysterious) UNIVERSAL (for EARTHLINGS) BRAIN DESIGN. HOW? ISOMORPHICALLY AND ASYMPTOTICALLY. HOW LONG? ETERNAL TIME and MULTIPLE LIVES? There is a HIERARCHY running from the needed 'reals' to the needed 'abstractions'. Childrens' minds flow through time to become Mature Adult minds. Simple experiences would transmute from simple OBSERVATION to WISDOM toward -- always -- CREATIVE and CREATING SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE.
Dick
Seem's that you're the one that's been fooled by Iranian propoganda. Feel free to go over to memri.org if you'd like to view his actual speech's. I doubt you will. You'd rather keep your head in the sand and blame the US for everything wrong in the world.
"Perhaps this indicates that the United States may adopt a more realistic policy toward Iran. "
Should our more realistic policy include making our Secretary of State wear a Burka?
""""By Daniel Williams
May 4 (Bloomberg) -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
arrived for a gala dinner last night with diplomats attending a
security conference with Iraq. As she walked in, Iranian Foreign
Minister Manouchehr Mottaki slipped out a side door. """"
Why did the Iranian Foreign Minister leave???
"""" ``At dinner last night, because of my Islamic standards,
something was wrong,'' Mottaki told reporters at a news
conference today, when asked why he had left the meal. He did
not elaborate.""""
"""Mottaki left the meal because the evening's entertainment
included a violin player in a low-cut red dress. ``I'm not sure
which woman he was afraid of: the one in the red dress or the secretary of state,'' McCormack said."""
"They know that Iran's official policy is not to attack any nation and that its President hasn't authority over its foreign policy."
Too bad they don't follow this policy. Do you need me to provide you with a list?
As I see it, what you call involution, I relate to the microcosm. What you call evolution, I relate to the macrocosm.
There is truly no actual separation between them as all is holographic anyway and the 'differences' are but our 'perceptions', a mix of the Mind and the Brain. The Mind being the implicit a priori factor of universal energy connectivity, intuitively sensed and the Brain being the physical processor related to our body for 5 sensory processing.
To me (at the present time, subject to modification)(naturally, all is) our 'heart' is a metaphor for our central internal balance point of all we are, spiritually and physically both. The 'essence' of our 'heart' usually transcends the pure logic and rationality of our brain ... all of the very best when they are balanced.
I see God as the balance point of all that is or could be, the giver of ALL potentials, the epitome of a UNIverse. We as hu-man Beings are created in the image of God in that we are the 'gifted' creators of our own realities based upon God's offered potentials ... we are gods withIN God. Of course for the most part, this truth is as yet unrealized ... and has unlimited potential, realized or not.
As 'I' see it, we evolved (call it created even) from the inner small, OUT into the outer large. Our physical macrocosmic future is in that direction while our spiritual microcosmic realization is in the opposite direction, towards our 'source'.
I suspect that our Soul (the spiritual aspect of our personal essence throughout all time and space) is our connection to BOTH ... IT being our INner and going with us into the OUTer.
I will end now with the suggestion that BTN-V be ignored completely ... if you look him up and check his source you will find him basically a non-entity. I have had much experience with him on the long Dershowitz thread.
Peace, j.
Your comments show no understanding of the content and meaning of Ahmadinejad's political speeches. Obviously, they express a political view. The point of the article is to describe Iran's interests and its official policy. His rhetoric clealy does not represent its policy, although it does appeal many people outside Iran (much less so in Iran, who don't consider Israel and the Palestinians are their concern) and is , intentionally, intended to rankle others.
It is a positive sign that the Iranians and Americans did meet and exchange at the conference in Egypt. The Foreign Minister was required by his government to absent himself from the gathering if it might embarrass its official image. The comment about women wearing burkas and being afraid of the secretary of state is tasteless and childish. Women in Iran don't wear burkas and they outnumber men in its universities.
http://alaskafreepress.com/msgboard/board/397
Is but one of countless sources of the real truth about that. (of course this 'appears' left wing loony the 'right' will say ... but it is the first at the top of the list on a Google search ... of course one will be able to select just what they are predisposed to hear ... something the 'right' is quite 'professional' about.