America's Checkbook -- Overdrawn

"If you can just hold on to that check until the end of the week, I'd sure appreciate it."

This administration's spending money like a teen at the mall with her dad's credit card is going to come back and haunt us for decades...just wait until Chine decides to put the screws to us...

*China

(I need coffee)...

I think the Government and the American people are in too much debt. They will never be able to get out of and I am not sure they even want to.

Politicians spend because it gets them elected. We want someone else to pay the bill or we want to pay a little while someone else pays alot and then say we are "happy to pay". We want to be compassionate with someone else's money. We demand that our government do more and more things that we should probably do ourselves.

Being age 42 and at the end of the baby boom generation, it truely worries me of what is to come. The boomers are starting to retire and will not contribute as much in taxes as they retire or work less. They also feel entitled to more and more governement programs and want more and more things covered as they retire. Some of them have planned, some have lived for the day and have no meaningful savings. They also are a HUGE voting block and as we know, old people have the time to vote and do vote more as compared to the general population.

I'm worried about all the people who have second mortgages, high credit card debt, or just spend what they make without saving. Many of these people have cable TV, buy $3 cups of coffee, drink bottled water, eat out most of the time and not think twice of it while not saving for their future while I live within my means.

I'm stashing away at my 401K, but that worries me too. I think they will change the tax laws and really pounce on that money. I've moved more money to Roth IRA's so that I will have some tax protection. But I think people at the end of the baby boom and younger will get the shaft if things don't change.

Fiscal responsibility starts with the individual. How can we expect our elected officials to behave any differently than we do? Debt is so pervasive in our culture that we make the distinction between "good" debt and "bad" debt. Good debt? Bad Debt? Come on, it is DEBT!

Look, I'm all for leveraging good credit to make sound fiscal investments. And I believe there needs to be a safety-net for individuals that are in the midst of catastrophic events. However, I don't look favorably on the masses that use creative methods to get into a home they can't afford, run up the credit cards to make ends meet, and lastly end up at Bankruptcy Court -- all in the name of keeping up with the Jones.

It is way to easy to borrow money, and easier to walk away with little to no consequences. Those that do manage their money well are forced to pick up the cost of those that walk away in the form of higher cost of goods and services – not to mention higher taxes to pay for the portion the government swallows. The cycle won't stop unless every individual stops viewing each "want" as a "need" and comes to terms with what they can and can't afford. There will always be something "better" and someone that has "more". I say "SO WHAT??? WHO CARES???" My self-worth is not directly tied to my wallet. Is yours?

Once we show restraint as a collective whole, one would hope that the elected officials will take notice and behave accordingly.

OTB I don't think we need to worry about when China wakes as much as we should worry about when will we stop hitting the snooze button. (How's that for slaughtering a famous quote)

Do you really believe people don't care or want to see the country get out of debt, ~Connie~ C.? Can you share why you feel that way?

"But I think people at the end of the baby boom and younger will get the shaft if things don't change." - Gary Fischbach Gary, what changes would you like to see? I'm really curious if you looked at some of those materials from the GAO, its really something to have the info in hand and I imagine you have an interesting take on it.

Sally W do you think events like this Policy & A Pint or even just the materials will make individuals change? Are our votes representing who we are as a society as opposed to where we want to be?

Gary has the right idea. I do much the same, that is to be financially secure and not solely dependent on any government programs.

The crunch from all this debt will come when the dollar declines enough and we no longer have easy credit. That applies to both government and the consumer.

Thanks for the post Julia.

Agriculture, minerals, and manufacturing create wealth. When the majority of Minnesota's population were involved in farming, mining, and manufacturing, then by definition, they were involved in creating wealth. The labor saving advances in each of these cut the workforce down to a tiny fraction of the population.

If the U.S. economy will never again be farm based, mining based, or manufacturing based, then the act of moving money around will predominate. Rudy Perpich made a career out of job programs for baby boomers, but those days are gone forever. The 20 -35 year olds of today will have a better choice of career path, due to being a smaller demographic. Full employment will be commonplace, and so will ads for no experience necessary, will train.

But taxes will be quite high, and the wages of many highly paid professionals will be taxed out from under them.

Another downside on the balance sheet is the baby boomers not saving for retirement, as has been mentioned. We boomers can vote in a level of welfare for ourselves that would be larger than the previous all time high level of 5 % of the budget.

Some tough political choices are in order.

We're going to need to raise the retirement age. The retirement age was set at 65 in the 30's when not that many people lived much longer after 65, needed fewer things like healthcare, and jobs were often much more physical than they are now. A lot of people retire at 65 now because the government says they can and they don't feel like working. Fine. But don't expect the government to pay you just because you're 65. I think we should help people who can't work, but if you just chose not to work, don't expect a dollar out of me.

I cam to terms that I wasn't going to get Social Security in high school and came to terms that I am the only one I can truely rely on.

Which is why at 20 I started a 401(k) and a diversified stock portfolio (some high risk, some moderate risk and most low risk). Now at 22 I am probably more prepared for retirement than most people twice my age.

Simply put, Carl. Would you like to put odds on when "easy credit" will vanish?

Jennifer D. Meacham, I'd hoped you'd chime in. To all: Jennifer wrote a pretty interesting review of Bill Bradley's The Economy, a chapter from his book "The New American Story."

I'm seeing a lot about the Baby Boomers' voting bloc power but not a lot of optimism for their (potential) use of it. Why is that?

Example:

"Another downside on the balance sheet is the baby boomers not saving for retirement, as has been mentioned. We boomers can vote in a level of welfare for ourselves that would be larger than the previous all time high level of 5 % of the budget." - Tim Nelson When you follow that by stating some tough political choices are in order, Tim, are you talking about our elected officials or are you putting responsibility on the voters?

Daniel A., do you think that the retirement age is already sort of "officially" creeping up?

Interesting - and admirable - personal approach Nathan S. But I'm also wondering what you'd like to see the gov't do to prepare for the future :-)

Being 42, I have no idea when or if I will be really able to retire. Seeing I will have to pay for all the Baby Boomers, I don't plan on getting any Social Security, if I do get some, it will be so de-valued and will nothing close to a safety net, I'lll just treat it as gravy. I presume the offical retirement age will be 75+ for a guy my age. With medical advances and the need to feed the monster, they need us to keep working. I feel even more sorry for people younger than me.

I plan on working as long as can. Maybe not a full time job with all that responsibilty, but a job that gives me a reason to get my ass out of bed each day. I worked as a maintenance guy at an old folks condo while going to school, the people who had a reason to get up each day were healthier and had a better attitude. Sure they woke up with some aches and pains, but they kept moving. The moment you stop, you may not start again. I'm not saying you have to work full time at a tough job, there are plenty of part time jobs and volunteer opportunites available. My grandma lived till she was 104, and lived in her own house till she was 100. A bathroom on the second floor, a half acre garden, Mass every day, 45 grandchildren, 100+ greats, worked part time cleaning offices until she was about 80 after a career in farming, and made her on saurkraut and bread from scratch.

Julia S -- Discussion of ideas, articles, etc. is good on any level no matter which side of the fence you fall. And I do believe such exchanges bring about change because they have the ability to inform and educate. I think it is much harder today with the quantity of resources at our fingertips to decipher the quality of the information being put forward. It is especially true with politicians and elections. There are individuals being paid large amounts of money to "spin" everything from clothing choice to more serious ethical problems.

As to what our votes represent -- It is hard to say whether or not our votes represent who we are or where we want to be. Our democratic system works because only a minority of available votes actually get cast. I would be mistaken to assume that our votes would represent "who we are" since the judgment would be based on a sampling of minority data and not all of America.

For myself, I vote the "where we should be" and try to elect individuals that I think can get the job done -- what the "job" is depends on the timing of the election and the areas of our government that I think are being neglected - even if those areas don't particularly pertain to me.

Gary has some great ideas. The people I worry about are the ones who aren't saving because they can't.

After listening to David Walker last night, I realized that our annoying health care crisis in this country is, perhaps, the biggest factor in our country's economic demise. Walker said the system will be reformed (incrementally) because it must be.

You can work, save and have everything planned out perfectly and then get hit by a devastating illness which wipes you out. I have seen it happen more than once. We absolutely have to make cost-effective quality health care available to everyone.

But if the people who could and should lived within their means and did plan and save, then we would have money for the people who can't.

But, the more we allow able bodied people to be unproductive and dependant on a government program the less money will have to spend it on the people who really need it. We don't applaud self sufficiency or self relience any more. We want to punish the people for making good life choices and reward people for making poor life choices. When you reward a behavior, you get more of it. When you become dependant on it, you vote for people to continue these programs. When programs don't get an increase of funding each year but receive the same amount of money they got last year it's called a "cut".

Is it virtuous to be compassionate with someone else's money?

The only truely viable solution to this problem is make it mandatory that as soon as you retire you ahve to move to canada and suck out their resources.

Really, I think it's to late to fix it, you can't force anyone to save their money to provide for themselves, so I don't know what to do.

all i have to say is people need to live within their means and yes..check their credit card spending and luxury goods..live frugal life and everyone benefits

I don't get all the fear over Social Security. The shortfall could be eliminated if only the cost of living raise given each year was reduced by 1%. By 2040 the system would be in balance and the reduction of benefits wouldn't be particularly harmful.

Without Social Security 90+% of retired people would be in ABJECT poverty attempting to stay afloat by drawing funds from their kids directly. You're going to have to pay one way or another so why not stick with the system already in place?

Raise the age to 66 -- fine. Better yet make the wealthy pay payroll tax. As it is the top 5% in this country pay NO Social Security tax on 90% of their income while the middle class is stuck with a 15% hit on all theirs.

I'm just now getting back to your follow-up question of me. Am I talking about our elected officials or are you putting responsibility on the voters?

Most of the hope that I do have, and I am optimistic on balance, is in the ability for science and technology to cut the cost of some of the big ticket items. The politicians seem to be looking at incremental solutions, or worse. Take the case of Mike Ciresi, he appeared on the TV show, Almanac, and made the point that he would defend the public pensions, not once during the interview, but twice. Now, most people on the street will tell you that pensions have been getting a deservidly bad rap, and most pensions will be converted to defined benefit options, and very little is going to stop it. This used to be called pandering, when many people had pensions to lose. Today, I'm not sure what it is, or why they would be for a pension plan in the first place.

Earlier today, I was at the Independence Party Minnesota State Convention, and Jack Uldrich gave the keynote speech on "Seeing a different future". He walked us through the many technological improvements have changed our lives, and that the tempo of those changes are only picking up over time. This mirrors about half the posts I make on forums such as this.

Where are the voters in all of this ? I suppose trying to get the politicians to look at the future in new ways, and not in 2, 4, or 6 years blocks.