I recently received a chatty Gather email in which a writer lamented that he had received very few comments on his recent travel article. I read the article and discovered that it had several spelling errors. It was an interesting article but even the name of the travel destination had been misspelled over and over. I gave him a high rating for content and mentioned the spelling errors.
What I am wondering about is if writers on Gather want feedback about spelling and punctuation errors or whether they would prefer not to hear even the smallest criticism. I'm not talking about those "Your article is crap" or "You're full of s**t" kind of comments when a commenter is rude and obnoxious. Nobody wants to hear that. I am referring to a commenter pointing out minor errors that may take away from the value of the article if one wanted to attract readers or actually publish their writing at some point. I always mention the good things about what I read before I mention a spelling or grammatical error.
As some people may know, Gather was originally promoted as a site for aspiring writers, artists, and other "artists." A lot of the original Gather members solicited feedback about spelling, grammar, the way in which paragraphs were set up, how the article might be improved, etc. Since then Gather has evolved into a lively social community with all kinds of writing, some serious, some humorous, some directing readers to another site, some with recipes, and so forth. There is something for everyone.
As a Gather contributor, are you insulted if I mention that you have spelled something incorrectly? Are you upset if I mention that you have used "it's" when you should have used its? (It's is only used if you mean "it is.") If you are talking about something like the cat's fur, you would write "its fur." It's an easy mistake to make. Do you consider it rude if that is pointed out to you?
I love being on Gather and have enjoyed so many wonderful articles. I am also very interested in art and have seen some incredible works of art here. The photography is often beautiful and yes, I am one of those people who loves pictures of pets and kids.
I don't want to offer my comments when they are not wanted but would like to get some feedback on this issue. I have checked this article carefully but I do want you to tell me if you spot a spelling or grammatical error in my writing. After all, I want to write the Great American Novel someday and I need all the help I can get.
What do you think about this important Gather issue? I really want to know.
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 40
What I now do is decide, based on a variety of factors what the writer is looking for. If it appears to be an article that is just for fun, I don't bother correcting. But if they claim they are looking for readers, as was the case in the email you got, I would assume they want to be told of the errors.
It's a fine line, and sometimes I am wrong. But anyone who gets upset if errors are pointed out is not someone I would bother to read again.
If you ever want to correct me, you are welcome and invited to do it publicly and wherever necessary to help me improve. I appreciate it when people are astute enough to recognize an error and speak up to contribute to my growth as a writer.
I just thought of something, lot of people don't use Gatherites are not here to get critique or to be an aspirin author. A lot of people are here to socialize and/or debate the issues. I've noticed that a lot of people who get really offended are those who are here for one or both of those reasons.
I'm giving you a 10 because this really is a big issue on Gather and it's good for someone to bring it out for discussion.
This is a good question, and I think you should go by what you think matters to the person. If you can see they take pride in their writing, point out the error. (And then, if it's just one, no one needs to feel ashamed anyway.) If it's clear the person is only trying to share something and not produce "great writing", react to the content only. (Pointing out the correct spelling of a place name would probably still be a reasonable thing to do.)
The safest thing, of course, is to provide such critique only when it's requested. So if you really want to stay out of trouble, that's the best policy. :-)
I am glad that you posted this. It made me think about what I do on here.
They might be more receptive to a tactful email, explaining the problems.
if a writer solicits critique, that is another matter.
Cartoon: Internet Critic --
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976943879
Nice article and I agree with your overarching questions.
I discontinued publicly reviewing, copy-editing or deconstructing any articles on Gather. I made an exception for the First Chapter second round in a display of irony. Out of 20 very thoughtful reviews, I received only 3 thank-you eMail notes. If I come upon anything that strikes me, I'll eMail my comments but Gather eMail really sucks. I've posted an HTML page on the 'net once. That's actually easier for me to format that working with the Gather interface.
Can we project that percentage, do you think? 15% care what other people think? (I am a cynical cantankerous curmudgeon so I leave open the possibility the thank-you was more about the next round and not actually sincere)
I recently received a mass eMail from someone promoting her online publication, which had glaring errors in its 35 words or less (the eMail -- I get an headache just thinking about how bad the web-page must be). As politely as I could in a return eMail, I pointed out the errors and suggested since many people who receive the eMail are looking to hone their writing skills, she might wish to lead by example.
She flamed me, publicly.
I feel it's difficult to receive constructive criticism from people who are not comfortable in their own work.
I feel it's difficult to give constructive criticism to people who are not comfortable in their own work.
My goal on Gather is to become a better writer. I have a wife and a dappling of friends who rave about my greatness so I don't need the same from strangers. I don't have the benefit of a public education; this is my graduate school.
I've not been on Gather long. I had two articles, which I posted and got good feedback (by two people). I considered the feedback and did some pretty serious rewrites. I learned a good deal.
I've not as yet figured out the trick to get thoughtful literary or constructive criticism on Gather. Taking a cue from Fritz the Cat, "The lovin' you get is equal to the lovin' you give," I first tried reading many articles and offering comments.
Now, well, I'll keep my eye out for the 15%.
I'm currently rewriting the ten novels I've written in the past seven years. The problem with being self-educated is I'm a much better writer today than I've ever been; thus, all my past work needs rewriting -- rewriting is not the correct word. Overhauling.
As to its/it's, Clare -- I still get caught on this. What I do is read it whole: it is -- in the sentence. If 'it is' works, than it's 'it's.' As you know, the word 'its' is already possessive, so it doesn't need an apostrophe.
"You cannot raise yourself up by pushing others down." Witchy Wisdom.
It's nice meeting you, Clare -- see you around the cyber town.
I personally see a great advantage in knowing how to write and spell with grammatical precision, but it can sometimes take a little extra time to think out and select the right words with which to convey the exact meaning you intend. I agree with your lament, but I've come to the conclusion that even when someone asks why their writing isn't taken seriously, they still don't really want to be told that it's because they can't write well enough to actually impress someone.
Further comment on its/it"s: I might be that the grammar rules have changed slightly from the '60s & '70s when I was in school, but I distinctly remember from numerous grammar lessons that the same rules apply to both usages and either spelling is(was?) considered correct. Technically, both the contraction and the possessive pronoun should be spelled with an apostrophe, but "it" is one of those English words that break the rules of grammar. If you want to discuss a real grammatical mess, what happens to the spelling when "it" becomes both plural and possessive? Is it its, it's, or its'?
By the way, thanks for bringing this topic up!
I have noticed in the last few years (anyone else notice this) that published works, novels, etc. have glaring mispelled words or the wrong word - to, two, too - or some such. Lose and Loose are biggys too!
I myself have trouble deciding between affect and effect.
In several writing classes I have taken, one of the big things noted was... you cannot proofread your own work - your brain knows what you meant and your brain will read it over and over again as you meant it, never seeing the error.
I am a spur of the moment writer... I do not do outlines (never could figure them things out, part of my dyslexia, I guess), I do not do drafts, I do not reread what I have written. I write and off it goes!!!
But I do appreciate corrections, it can only help to make me better.
Thank you for bring this subject up!
I believe we need to keep in mind the larger picture as to the style and demanor of the writing as much as speeling and grammar. Sometimes what we would consider simple and obvious mistakes may just be there for effect.
I personally usually contact the writer personally if I see spelling or grammatical errors. The style, and information is open for comment, but I sincerly try to uplift every writer that attempts a piece, and not to make them feel sad, or inferior.
A lot of the spelling errors I notice in books seem to be related to or complicated by the use of spelling checkers. English has numerous homonym and homophone sets that are indistinguishable in conversation, but result in glaring context errors when written out. The problem is that spelling checkers don't analyse context and grammar checkers aren't perfect I fear we'll see more and more of these types of errors because machines are a lot cheaper, but humans can do a much better job of editing a manuscript.
I write everything from serious political commentary to family stories. I write music reviews and opinions and I write fluff; although very little fluff. I'm sending you a connection in hopes that you will accept. If you do, please subscribe to me and tear my ass up on every article I post.
I would very much appreicate a straight forward non-biased opinion on ANYTHING I write. Hopefully you will be that person.
Thanks,
Todd
It was just for a short time, Clare, don't worry! I was "in costume" for a little game and didn't get to "change" until the end of the day.
As for the question in your article, I don't think it can be answered by a community, only by the person seeking critique or just writing for fun. It has been suggested that those who would appreciate critique, place that message at the bottom of their article. Something like: Critique welcome.
As for critiquing others...
Sometimes I use the list of groups where the article was posted as a guide. If the groups are fun or pertain to social issues, I guess that the author is looking only for comments on content.
If the majority of groups have to do with writing and critique, I feel free to comment about all aspects of the work. Of course, reading a writer's responses to other comments is a key to how they'll react.
I came in with the First Chapters contest, and at the beginning I assumed that everyone wanted as much help and feedback as they could get. I have learned that not all are members of Gather for that purpose.
I've also approached authors directly in the comment thread and asked, What level of feedback do you want? That works well. They'll be honest and I don't waste my time giving them more or less than they expected.
Good discussion here. Thanks.
I can spin a tale, but my technical skills need work. Any writer who takes offence to thoughtful comments on spelling, puncuation and such need to get thicker skin.
My friends and family think I'm a genius too, but I've got alot of polish work to do before I'll get close to published.
I'd be thrilled to have more comments on my work. It seems most everyone wants comments on their work without returning the favor. Such is life.
I'll keep making comments and posting. smile
I am a serious, published author. I hesitate to comment negatively about articles and photos. If I feel there is something I could help an author with I mail them a note and ask if they are interested in comments. I've done this several times with regards to editing photos. Several request my suggestion. One person told me she wasn't interested.
When I write these notes I use the sandwich method. I say something positive, then make the suggestion and end with something positive.
I think it would be helpful if the person submitting the article or photo would ask specifically what they desire in terms of critiques. I will in the future.
I think critiquing a published article is different than critiquing someone's comments about an article. I don't expect to be critiqued in the comment sections. This can turn the discussion away from topic.
It seems like the writers and readers might want to consider creating agreements about critiques. An off-line group that I'm a part of created agreements. Prior to the author reading a piece they agree to tell the rest of the group what they desire from the group.
It's late and I ramble.