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by Edward Nudelman
Member since:
January 17, 2006

Do We Really Hate Poetry? [vol.1, no.5, Poetry Central]

March 26, 2007 08:47 AM EDT (Updated: March 26, 2007 08:48 AM EDT)
views: 1417 | rating: 9.7/10 (82 votes) | comments: 192

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Do We Really Hate Poetry?

 

We hate poetry.  Oh c’mon, admit it.  It makes our skin crawl.  That poem in second grade?  Everyone laughed as the words rang out, How do I love Thee?  Let me count the ways…  The boy in the second row was imitating you reading it by bobbing his head back and forth like a pendulum and you were counting the ways you were going to pummel him afterwards.    

 

We hate bad poetry.  But we also hate good poetry.  We hate Milton and John Donne, not because we’ve read them, but because they wrote poetry in the seventeenth century.  We hate the sound of the word Haiku, and we especially hate the people that recite their homemade haikus in their peppermint oil baths.

 

I went through about a decade-long spate of hating poetry.  But I started out being a pretty sensitive, inquisitive young anarchist existentialist-type.  At about the same age I started to smoke (coincidentally), drive cars and like girls, I became interested in such odd poets as Alan Ginsberg, Lawrence Ferlinghetti and Charles Bukowski.  This was all to support my Bob Dylan habit, who I discovered was deeply influenced by these “Beat” poets.  I tried to memorize Ginsberg’s HOWL, but was so severely castigated by my parents, that I had to go underground with my insatiable hunger for beat poetry.

 

Then, a major epiphany.  My poetical life history was deeply affected by the public reading of one of my poems in a Senior High English writing class.   Mr. Frisbie, after reciting my poem to the class of about a dozen forlorn philosophers, put the paper down on his desk and solemnly proclaimed that Frost would have been brought to tears by this magnificent poem (I assumed he meant in a good way).  Later that night I looked up Robert Frost in my Funk and Wagnall’s and embarked on a life of poetry.

 

The aforementioned ‘life of poetry’ lasted about two years, after which I unceremoniously threw myself into the wonders of mathematics, biochemistry, medical school, and a very lovely woman who is now my wife.  The left brain was exercised to the exclusion of the right, which atrophied and nearly wasted away.  There was a period of about five years, I think, after our first child was born, when I fled from all things poetic.  Perhaps it was a latent reaction from getting so amped up about it in high school, then completely dropping it (PTPE, Post-Traumatic Poetry Experience).  I remember reading with disdain various poems I’d find on greeting cards, my own horrific poems that I kept in a drawer in my desk, or ones that I’d find in magazines.  One, in particular, stands out, a poem (Gunga Din) by Rudyard Kipling, which I read in my dentist’s waiting room.  When my name was called, I threw down the magazine and wondered what good a poem could do for a guy waiting on a root canal.  (How weak the mind’s eye before oral surgery!).

 

I don’t think I wrote one single poem for over ten years.  That’s quite a hiatus, and not the kind of factoid you'll find in most poet biographraphies (doesn’t bode well for me).   Never mind.  How could I ever have imagined, in my wildest dreams, that I’d end up so loony-binned on poetry?  Mr. Frisbie may have seen it coming; but for me, it took me quite by surprise.

 

Well, the point here is not to force anyone to like poetry.  Where would we be without folks with opinions?  You don’t think poets are opinionated?  Yeah, right!  My own dear, supportive wife can take poetry or leave it, like jam on toast.  She’s blunt, and she’s a good critic.  And I listen to her (you think I’m crazy?)

 

The comment thread below is for you!  Why not take this opportunity to tell me why you hate poetry?  Or, as I have done, you can leave a few remarks why you don’t hate poetry.  I’ve chosen to do this thematically, but please feel free to express yourselves in what ever manner you wish. 

 

 

Top 10 Reasons Why Ed Doesn’t Hate Poetry 10

10

Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven's part, our part
To murmur name upon name …
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

—from "Easter 1916”  W.B. Yeats 

 

I can remember where I was, what I was doing, and how it felt the first time I read Yeats’ unsurpassed poem on the Irish uprising against the British Empire.  The poem, like none other, makes us aware of real people in its chilling use of names in the verse, not to mention one of the greatest closing lines in all of poetry.

 

 9

Haiku.  I can say it, and I can read it, and I can try to write it.  If you take the time to read some really good haiku, you’ll discover something strange (I suggest googling  “haiku poems” and checking out some very early classical examples which are abundant on the net).  The sparseness of verse (many forms, but traditionally, only 17 syllables in three lines) gives an opportunity to grasp a simple truth in the twinkling of an eye.  Boom!  Instant awareness.  Better than a CTU raid on the Russian embassy!

 

Spring departs.
Birds cry
Fishes' eyes are filled with tears

—Basho

 

 8

At Blackwater Pond the tossed waters have
                           settled
               after a night of rain.
       I dip my cupped hands. I drink
              a long time. It tastes
    like stone, leaves, fire. It falls cold
into my body, waking the bones. I hear them
          deep inside me, whispering
        oh what is that beautiful thing
                that just happened?

 

—Mary Oliver 

If you haven’t read this contemporary poet, you really should.  Born in 1935, Oliver’s poems reflect her passionate, positive, and uplifting observation of the natural world with vibrant and inspiring use of language to evoke a feeling.  She has been favorably compared to Whitman and Thoreau.

 

 7

In this book birds are taught their flying

by that which would make them fall

were they not to fly as had been taught.

 

The book is roughly bound, and left

open on a couch.  The page is illustrated

and, lifted to the light, displays

 

a moralizing scene:  two children have tied

a third to the wheel of an enormous carriage.

A group of elderly women look on with pride.

 

It is a scent of such astonishing strength,

why, Leopold, there are flowers hidden

throughout the room.  There must be for I

 

cannot sleep without the noise of a bouquet,

and gently, gently, sir, you know

I sleep most gently in this small room.

 

This ‘gentle’ whisper of a poem was written by Jesse Ball, and I read it last year

(2006) when it appeared in The Paris Review, one of the top poetry journals.  For me it conveys a blending of many thoughts, feelings and events all happening in one telling and leaving me with an utterly astonished sense that I just watched a very important unfolding of meaning.

 

6

I placed a Jar in Tennessee

—first line from a Wallace Stevens poem  

A teaser, and a homework assignment.  If you haven’t read the poem by Wallace Stevens,

Anecdote of the Jar, you had better google it or find it in your Anthology; and after you read it, you’ll never be the same.  No, I won’t provide an active link.  You have to be more motivated than that!  It’s different.  Read it and report back.  FYI, Stevens is on my top five favorite-poets list.

 

 

 5

All look and likeness caught from earth
All accident of kin and birth,
Had pass'd away. There was no trace
Of aught on that illumined face,
Uprais'd beneath the rifted stone
But of one spirit all her own ;--
She, she herself, and only she,
Shone through her body visibly.

—Phantom, Samuel Taylor Coleridge

 

See comments following next entry.

 

 

 4

WHY art thou silent! Is thy love a plant

Of such weak fibre that the treacherous air

Of absence withers what was once so fair?

Is there no debt to pay, no boon to grant?

Yet have my thoughts for thee been vigilant--

Bound to thy service with unceasing care,

The mind's least generous wish a mendicant

For naught but what thy happiness could spare.

Speak -- though this soft warm heart, once free to hold

A thousand tender pleasures, thine and mine,

Be left more desolate, more dreary cold

Than a forsaken bird's-nest fill'd with snow

'Mid its own bush of leafless eglantine--

Speak, that my torturing doubts their end may know.

—Speak, William Wordsworth 

 

The great “nature” poet, Wordsworth, with so much to say that goes far beyond observation, using language as an art form, wrote poetry to be understood and appreciated by the common man, that told of things we all experience, and then packs a wallop in the universal themes he so easily extracts and brings to the fore.  Coleridge, the great poet of imagination, utilized amazing skills in language, poetic diction and specialized stories such as “Kubla Khan” to illustrate deep truths in human nature and behavior.  Interestingly, the two poets maintained a close authorial relationship and friendship during their professional careers.  It has been said, though I will not vouch for the veracity of the notion, that, in the virtual here-and-now, a certain John F. Walter and a certain Edward D. Nudelman have been linked together in some sort of metaphysical way to the aforementioned two poets.  I’ll leave it to your imagination which is which.

 

 

 3

To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
A robin redbreast in a cage
Puts all heaven in a rage

.—first lines from Auguries, William Blake

 

Okay, I’ve read this poem a million times, and I’m freaking out over it once again.  A poem that spans all time, all cultures, all generations, all imagination. 

 

 

 

2

In my craft or sullen art
Exercised in the still night
When only the moon rages
And the lovers lie abed
With all their griefs in their arms,
I labour by singing light
Not for ambition or bread
Or the strut and trade of charms
On the ivory stages
But for the common wages
Of their most secret heart.

Not for the proud man apart
From the raging moon I write
On these spindrift pages
Nor for the towering dead
With their nightingales and psalms
But for the lovers, their arms
Round the griefs of the ages,
Who pay no praise or wages
Nor heed my craft or art.

—Dylan Thomas 

This is one of my favorite of Dylan Thomas’ poems (I have so many favorites), and it’s the first poem I ever read by him.  It hit me hard then (I was 18) and it still does.  Why do we create?  No one ever said it better than Dylan Thomas.  I mean, he said it for himself, not that we should do our art for that exact reason.  Thomas has many, many lesser known poems that are every bit as powerful, and some ineffable masterpieces (Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night, Fern Hill, Where Once the Waters of Your Face, etc.)  It is well worth reading through a Dylan Thomas collection of poetry.

 1

And, the number one reason why I don’t hate poetry, is……..

 

THE WINDHOVER, by Gerard Manley Hopkins (written in 1918)

 

To Christ our Lord


I caught this morning morning's minion, kingdom
 of daylight's dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
  Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
  As a skate's heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
  Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird, -- the achieve of, the mastery of the thing!

Brute beauty and valour and act, oh, air, pride, plume, here
  Buckle! AND the fire that breaks from thee then, a billion
Times told lovelier, more dangerous, o my chevalier!
  No wonder of it: sheer plod makes plough down sillion
Shine, and blue-bleak embers, ah my dear,
  Fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermilion.

 

Summary (from Speak What We Feel, by Frederick Buechner)

“The bird—a kestrel, or falco tinnunculus—is sometimes called a windhover because of its uncanny ability to remain stationary over one spot by flying into the wind at precisely the wind’s speed, beating its quivering (“wimpling”) wings more slowly as the gusts diminish and more rapidly as they pick up again.  After the hover, if nothing catches its eye on the ground, it banks against the wind like a skater heeling around a bend or speeds down-wind on the “rolling level underneath him steady air” until with a sudden about turn and upward swoop or “stride” it resumes its hovering.  If it spots quarry, it makes a sloping descent with wings held high and tense above its back.  Along with many other readers I take the difficult word “buckle” to refer, among other things, to this downward maneuver, which it seems to me is at the heart of the poem’s meaning, as it is evoked also by the parallel images of the last three lines.  It is when the “sheer plod” of the plowman presses the plowshare down hard into the furrow that burnishes it that the metal shines brightest.  It is in falling and galling (in the sense of breaking or wounding) themselves that the blue-beak embers reveal the splendor of the fire within.  It is Christ in his glory that is represented by the bird in the full majesty of flight, but more glorious still is the incarnation, when, like the bird buckling, Christ descends into the world’s suffering to be born in a stable and die on a cross between thieves for the world’s sake.”

 

I felt the need to reprint this entire commentary, because, in my mind, not a better explication of a poem exists in print.  Anywhere.  For those that have tracked with me this far, I urge you to now go back and re-read Hopkins’ poem, then consider how much more the poem opens up and speaks to you in many different ways.  Is this not the greatness of poetry?

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Written by Edward Nudelman, Books Correspondent for POETRY CENTRAL

Keep up with Ed’s other posting and Gather activity by joining his Gather network-just click here and select the orange “Connect” button on the left-hand side of the page.

You can also find also find a convenient index to all of the POETRY CENTRAL articles published on the Books Channel by simply clicking here.

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Comments: 192

Michelle W. Mar 26, 2007, 9:05am EDT
I usually enjoy poetry. I may not always understand it, but I enjoy it.
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amanda wallin Mar 26, 2007, 9:06am EDT
I too used to roll my eyes at the very thought though I was published at 5. Then I stopped until a few years ago. My self absorbtion and impatience was probably the main reason I couldn't enjoy poetry but NOW it strikes an atavistic chord.

You're a true inspiration to us all Ed.
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Gerry Wass Mar 26, 2007, 9:08am EDT
I haven't even had time to read the entire article, at least all the poetry excerpts at the end, but I'm already struck by the coicidence with things that have been running around my mind lately. It's a wonderful article that makes us reflect on our deepest feelings about poetry and it has done that to me. I've been going through a series of epiphanies of late about why poetry has been such a struggle for me and you inspire me to find time, somehow to write about all that.
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♥~♥ Phaedra ♥~♥ .. Mar 26, 2007, 9:08am EDT
I love poetry, It causes the mind to think beyond common logic. Great article.
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Dawn M Mar 26, 2007, 9:12am EDT
Thanks for sharing these Ed. I think poetry is more a personal thing. Either you like it or you don't. I enjoy poetry, however have a difficult time understanding some of the really indepth poems. You certainly have a good variety of poems that you have written Ed.
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Pamela G. Mar 26, 2007, 9:12am EDT
I love it too-well done article Ed- as usual.
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flit . Mar 26, 2007, 9:13am EDT
I wrote poetry as a teenager then abandonned it completely until recently... thought it would be a part of my uni program that I would DETEST - imagine my surprise on finding it enjoyable after all.

good teachers help.

I still don't like all of it (some of it doesn't speak to me at all - and some is just too much flippin' work !!!) ... but there is a lot I do enjoy.

Just finished an essay re: Plath and Molly Peacock ...I really like Peacock's work.
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guy arneson Mar 26, 2007, 9:13am EDT
Some of those poems are incredible... Thank you for your post.
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La Bellota Mar 26, 2007, 9:15am EDT
I don't hate poetry.....I FEAR poetry. I go thru the 5 stages of grief:

1. Denial

reading: Can I be THAT stupid that I don't understand whay the writer is trying to convey?

writing: I could NOT have written something so drivelly.

2. Anger:

reading: The author doesn't WANT me to understand. BEASTS! <---actually more letters

write: I cannot write a poem with out saounding all drivelly AND I am out of peppermint bath oils!!!

3. Bargaining

reading: Ok.....If I can understand what this means then I can earn smart points.

writing: If no one laughs at me...then it must be ok.

4. Depression

reading: i am such a tard.

writing: I am such a tard.....with a pencil.

5. Acceptance

reading: I will not get this til it is explained to me or I consult my poetry for dummies book.

writing: This is drivel. But at least I smell pepperminty.

So there's my answer Ed. I am like Salieri to a poets Mozart. I love it, I loathe it, I want it....I feel I can't have it.

But I promise not to poison anybody. But for a small fee I can do in Mr. Frisbee. (hee....just kidding)

Sorry this comment drivelled on......and on....and on
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Frightening Icon, Official Varmint of The State of Franklin Mar 26, 2007, 9:15am EDT
I obviously hate poetry, Ed. You've read some of my poems so you can how much I enjoy torturing the evil art form...
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Carolion Grailbear Mar 26, 2007, 9:18am EDT
Magnum Opus in the making, Ed! My, my, my.

Here are my 10 - LOVE OF POETICS - points
1. Poetics [the arts] is the language in which we communicate with the Divine
2. Poetics is the name for who I am/what I do: linguistic brinks-person-ship
3. Poetics is the Harp, we're the Strings, and Creator is the Player
4. Poetics is how the Magical Inner Child relates with all Creation
5. Poetics allows the Soul to nourish itself and grow
6. Poetics is HeartAthletics, Grace for All Time
7. Poetics is the Loving-Place of the R & L Brain WHOLE brain HeartMind
8. Poetics is the trail through the enchanted star-forest of Mythos
9. Poetics is the marriage-bed of God & Godys
10. Poetics is where we hang out when we're not materially engaged
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Jen (I'm back for more!) G. Mar 26, 2007, 9:19am EDT
Good post! I do like poetry (yes, even John Donne) because of Robert Frost, Langston Hughes, William Shakespeare, and Milton! I think like anything else we go through ups and downs with what we like and don't like. Right now I enjoy Haiku alot.
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Sherry Asbury Mar 26, 2007, 9:24am EDT
Poetry is the whispering of a soul in celebration or in despair. Poetry is the tongue loving the language that lifts one above the ordinary. Poetry is a wedge of beauty waiting for the eye to consume it. I love poetry!
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Bart H. Mar 26, 2007, 9:25am EDT
mr. nudelman:

of all the things i have learned on gather (and there have been a few) (really) i found that
1. some people really like poetry
2. in some ways it approaches thought more than prose (what with prose's penchant for complete sentences)
3. some are pretty good at writing it
4. i still don't get it but
5. i don't hate it any more

thanks for writing this.

your friend,
bart h.
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Linda DeMerle Mar 26, 2007, 9:27am EDT
Ed,

I loved poetry as a child. My gandmother gave me an old children's poetry book, whihc my aunt recently recognized as *hers.* Anyway, I loved reading those perfectly rhyming, rythmic beating lines.

I stopped reading poetry and then all of a sudden, began writing it in 1989. I subitted a poem and it was published. I was floored. Writing poetry becasme a daily ritual, becasue I was compelled to do it. Did I read other's poetry? Not much. A little Mary Oliver and Wordsworth becasue of my love of nature poetry, a little Rumi. I was engulfed in my own and raising a young child at the same time, as well as navigating a couople of tragedies, so writing poetry served me well.

The problem with reading poetry is that it takes time. Time to settle down, quiet the spirit so that we can drink the poem in, properly, as opposed to quickly slurping, slobbering and wiping our mouths on our sleeves. It takes attention and if we are not prepared and fully open to it, it is a waste of time. It's like chewing prime rib and spitting it out without swallowing it. Charming, I know.

So many poems, so little time, such a short attention span.
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Bart H. Mar 26, 2007, 9:28am EDT
and i'm trying to figure out the mathematics behind how stevens can be in your top five poets thing, but his poem (or the first line of it anyway) only rates no. 6?

hm. hmmmm.
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John Harris Beck Mar 26, 2007, 9:29am EDT
The best of propaganda, in its old neutral sense, for one of the best of causes. I love the thought of Frost being brought to tears - in a good way.
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Karolyn Q. Mar 26, 2007, 9:30am EDT
I am not a great lover of poetry. Never could write one. But I do enjoy some that I read.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 9:31am EDT
Thanks to all.

Bart, that's simple math!

Liz, I loved your comment.

Interesting how this love/hate thing is pretty common.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 9:33am EDT
Carolion, thanks for that beautiful set of 10 "love poetics"
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Shaun S. Mar 26, 2007, 9:37am EDT
HI Ed,
Hate is such a vile word but I would agree with the concept – for me that is. If people want to waste there time reading or writing incomplete thoughts that do not have to meet any standards of accuracy or correctness to be considered good, go for it. It is my opinion that most people who do like poetry do so because most poetry can be "interpreted" in any fashion so there opinion is never wrong and they spout there existential gobbly gook for the world to hear so they can self-validate themselves. Of the few poets I know,(and I love them dearly as people), less than 10% can write a story that has to make sense to the world, even if there life depended on it. Poetry just has to sound good to be considered good, it does not have to make sense or be meaningful to be considered as "poetry".

After saying this it should be noted that I have read about 100 hours worth of classical and modern poetry during a private phase of enlightenment, I was actually chasing a woman and I was trying to impress her with my "Poetry Knowledge". Poetry is the ancient equivalent of reality TV - for those people who are to lazy to use their brain for anything meaningful and productive with there life. In my opinion it's the writers easy way out. That being said I really don't think hate is an appropriate word as it lends the connotation that I would actually spend enough time reading a poem to even come up with a opinion of it. Poetry is just a unfortunate fact of life there will always be people who can not express themselves in a clear way, so Wa La –they create poetry "doesn't have to make sense, or be good, it just has to be" and now they have self-validated themselves into being superior because only they can understand it.
Sincerely
Shaun
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Wanda B. Mar 26, 2007, 9:41am EDT
I've always liked poetry and enjoyed memorizing the poems in elementary school. I believe some have come to mind over the years that have sparked a behavior or at least made me think how much better the past two generations might be if they had had to learn some poems. I think particularly of Edna St. Vincent Milay's SOMEBODY'S MOTHER. If only the punks who are robbing and making fun of older people were to read this and have to commit it to memory, it could get into their soul and change their behavior. Or am I just a romanticist?

My favorite poets are Henry W. Longfellow, John Greenleaf Whittier, and Edgar Allen Poe. Then, too, I read in passing -- like you mention -- some poems that really grip me. Then, too, the Book of Psalms -- most written by King David -- is one of the most inspiring books of poems. His son compiled the book of love poems -- Song of Solomon.

For anyone to say this like poetry is also admitting they don't like the words to songs -- ballads. They're only poems set to music. Who isn't moved by many hymns and anthems? Whose heart doesn't swell when they hear HOW GREAT THOU ART!, FAIREST LORD JESUS, AMAZING GRACE, WOUNDED FOR ME, BECAUSE HE LIVES, and
other hymns written by men and women who used personal experiences to comfort and give hope to others who would be going through similar experiences or have the same emotions they experienced. To read the stories behind the hymns is enlightening. For example, Fanny Crosby was blind from birth, yet she wrote hymns giving praise to God, not bemoaning her lack of sight. Example:
Take the world but give me Jesus
Let me view His constant smile
Till, with clearer, brighter vision
Face to face my Lord I see. (last stanza, GIVE ME JESUS)

This time of year -- as all nature awakens -- as I walk or ride among these mountains of Pennsylvania, my soul spontaneously sings out "HOW GREAT THOU ART!"
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Nana to Seven Cutiepies Mar 26, 2007, 9:43am EDT
I don't like poetry that isn't simple and written so I can understand what the "poet" is saying. Kids rhymes are about as far as I can stand. Some adult poems are okay, if they are written in every day words. I guess I'm too lazy to think about, (or go into depth) when I am reading. I appreciate the art, but am not a fan.
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La Bellota Mar 26, 2007, 9:45am EDT
Actually....I think Linda really hit the nail on the head as to why my love/hate thing persists.

I think the assumption that many of us are "slurping and slobbering" because we don't grasp the meaning right away.....well.....it sounds elitist to me.

However, many times in my life I have felt shoved away or rejected by Poetry Elite. But I no longer feel as badly....because I know that the poetry came from hearts and souls like mine.

I can try to write and I can try to read and yes, there are times that it requires my complete and total devotion. But then there are times that it strikes a chord.....and it take no time and my heart is singing in admiration and joy or melted away in tears and cathartic sobs.

So yes.....I am a Poetry Plebe. But before I can take on the magnicent works, I must cut my poems in tiny bite size pieces and acquire a taste. Because I get the idea that poetry was meant to be more like a treasure to be discovered by an Aladdin rather than sealed up in a box only for the Sultans and Kings.
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Carla S. Mar 26, 2007, 9:45am EDT
I'm intimidated by poems. I can write a ditty that is silly, but the serious stuff scares the pants off of me.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 9:47am EDT
Great comments, Shaun and Wanda. This is the sort of thing I was hoping for.
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Dolphi D. Mar 26, 2007, 9:47am EDT
Great article, Ed! It kindles the dormant love for poetry.
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~~ Sarina ~~ Mar 26, 2007, 9:47am EDT
Some poetry I find interesting, readable and easy to understand. Some poetry leaves me scratching my head.
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Faith H. Mar 26, 2007, 9:49am EDT
I've loved poetry and been bored by it. My parents (well, my mother) had books, poetry anthologies and collections so I was exposed to it early on. My earliest favorite as a pre-teen was Emily Dickinson and she remains an influence. I also like Edna St. Vincent Millay and most of the ones you've quoted. I don't consider myself a poet as it takes forever to get one out of me. I read recently that Elizabeth Bishop was sparse in her publishing of poems in that she labored over a poem for a long time.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 9:51am EDT
Great discussion. There is very much an elitism and snobbery in poetry, worse the "higher up the ranks" you go. There's a lot of nice, sensitive, helpful folks, but there's also a good deal of very hyper-critical, self-absorbed writers, interested in one thing only: publishing their poems. This sort of thing I can't abide.
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Alfreda S. Mar 26, 2007, 9:51am EDT
I like "GOOD" poetry. Just would like more time to read it.
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Debbie G. Mar 26, 2007, 9:52am EDT
Edward, this was a wonderful read full of treasures! I love poetry especially nature, inspirational, and ballads. Gunga Din is one of the 150 some odd memorized poems that I recited from horseback to keep Shadrack, my first horse calm. I loved it's inclusion in your article. :)
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Deven L. Mar 26, 2007, 9:53am EDT
Linda is quite right about the problem with reading poetry. It can take more time to read a 7 line poem than a 5 page story. Often my brain is to feeble to even understand them. I also have children constantly interupting me which makes it even harder.

My favorite Poems when I was younger and read a lot were.
Charge of the light brigade
O captain my captain
and the afore mentioned Kubali Khan because of it's hidden sexual inuendos.
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Ilsa E. Garcia Gonzalez Mar 26, 2007, 9:54am EDT
Great article and inspirational for poetry writers. I do love poetry.

Why I love poetry:

With love a side,
is in our time,
to promote a write
and give us pride.

To all the writers
we have inside.
Indeed amaze
to write a verse.

That feel your heart
with such a bless
Changing your day
with just a verse.

Thank you!
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Hunter A. Mar 26, 2007, 9:54am EDT
"It's in you baby, you got it deep down and it doesn't have to be fancy or rhyme. Poets just say things back to people that they know somewhere inside but just forgot for a spell, and when they hear it they go mmm hmm, yep, that's it. And it opens 'em up." From the Novella - Cherry's Last Trick
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 9:58am EDT
Yes Deven (and Linda) reading and understanding poetry can be a challenge, but like anything else, you get better at it the more you do it, the more you read other analyses. And, at least for me, I find insightful explications of poems to be very rewarding and helpful. You can find them online. I'll probably post an article on that very topic, reading poetry, very soon here.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 9:59am EDT
Thanks Ilsa for that positive verse!
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Jody Says Mar 26, 2007, 9:59am EDT
It does cause us to pause and think. It is a love/hate thing and always will be, as we look at words painting a picture, and strive to understand the authors fgeelings.
I have had many comments left by people saying they dont like poetry, but they found some connection with my words, and enjoyed them.
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Dusty Hubbard Mar 26, 2007, 10:01am EDT
To me poetry is the written expression of the passion that lies in all of us. In many cases we hate it because we have locked our passion away. Under our Adult agendas and busyness. We push it away because it is easier to ignore our heart's cry than to do something about it. When we allow that passion to fully bloom, it makes poetry that much easier to relate to. I was completely enveloped with poetry in my youth, lost touch with it in early adulthood and have just recently come back to appreciate it in it's fullness!
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Elijah Casabonne Mar 26, 2007, 10:02am EDT
POETRY IS LIFE!!
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 10:08am EDT
Really great comments, Chris! Everyone should read what Chris says above.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 10:09am EDT
KJ-- I hear you about English teachers. Luckily, it can work both ways, and a truly "great" English teacher, even when we're very young, can instil in us the love and appreciation of poetry.
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Katrina Hall Mar 26, 2007, 10:16am EDT
It all started in 6th grade, at boarding school. My teacher read out Walter de la Mare's poem, Silver:
Slowly, silently, now the moon
Walks the night in her silver shoon
This way , and that, she peers, and sees
Silver fruit upon silver trees;
One by one the casements catch
Her beams beneath the silvery thatch;
Couched in his kennel, like a log;
With paws of silver sleeps the dog;
From their shadowy cote the white breast peep
Of doves in silver-feathered sleep;
A harvest mouse goes scampering by,
With silver claws and a silver eye;
And moveless fish in the water gleam'
By silver reeds in a silver stream.

That did it! I was intoxicated with the sounds, the photographs in my mind, the animals, the gleaming night.
I went on to ee cummings...the little lame balloon man "whistles far and wee", Dylan Thomas, ..................poetry has passion, adventure, and soothes the sad spirit, or rejoices in the samba. Poetry is whatever you want it to be.
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DragonSoul !. Mar 26, 2007, 10:18am EDT
Great article, Ed. As a "poet," I completely understand the love/hate realationship with poetry. In my opinion, good poetry reads well and the reader gets some meaning out of it; even if it is not what the author was feeling or intended when he/she wrote it. Bad poetry reads something akin to reading the ingredients in Twinkies. Informative, but other than sugar, starch, and yellow dye #5, nobody understands a word of it.
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Vinay Benjamin Mar 26, 2007, 10:27am EDT
Ed - I love poetry always have since childhood thanks to my mom who introduced me to Jalaluddin Rumi, Omar Khayyam, Rabindranath Tagore and a few others. I was always fascinated with the weave of language into striking metaphors and for me poetry writing is an experiment in expression - for me poetry is what I said in one of my poems-

Poetry is my child of instinct,
Borne on this emblazoned mind,
Else randomness can't be tamed,
To instant meter and rhyme!
Every infant exhibits,
Preference in choosing toys,
Words must've been the favorites,
To my infant souls' delight.
Unwilling to part with these treasures,
Brought them along to the now,
To share my style of turn of phrase,
Though with simple reeds endowed.

you've been a great inspiration in these past few weeks I've been on Gather and though I do feel inadequate at times - I still write poems the way I "hear" them in my mind.
Thank you for sharing this wonderful article.
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Paula B. Mar 26, 2007, 10:31am EDT
Thanks for sharing and I don't hate poetry.
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nancy h. Mar 26, 2007, 10:33am EDT
Ed, what a terrific article. I disliked poetry intensely when I was very young - all of this rhyming stuff and tortured language just to come up with something that goes

Da-DA da-DA da-DA da-DA
Da-DA Da-DA Da-DA

Da-DA da-DA da-DA da-DA
Da-DA da-DA da-DA.

... and so forth.

But then I met Shakespeare.

I've written a very few poems, and those only when a thought or a metaphor inhabits my brain and simply WILL NOT go away until I've done something about it. I even wrote a poem comparing a 1978 Corvette to a dragonfly.

The ONE reason I value poetry so much more than I could ever have imagined decades and decades ago is this one line from Yeats' "The Second Coming":

"But what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"

That one never fails to blow me away.
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Sue * Mar 26, 2007, 10:34am EDT
Great article! I have told you in the past that I thought I did hate poetry. I have a Liberal Arts degree, was always more creative-minded than scientific, love to read and write...but, never enjoyed poetry. It was simply something that I read, and on occasion wrote in order to pass a class. Along comes Gather and Ed Nudelman to change all that. I actually started reading your poetry, and enjoying it. I read the articles where you "taught us" about haiku and haiga-and I tried it. I admit that sometimes, your poetry and a few others (Vinay comes to mind) are a bit over my head, but I enjoy the challenge of trying to imagine what the poet was thinking as he wrote the words.

I have found that at this time in my life it is a good way to express myself, and yes most importantly it is FUN. I would never have associated the word FUN with poetry before Gather. So, I guess Mr. Ed, I owe most of my interest in poetry to you. You have taught me in a way my professors never did, to enjoy the art. You and the Gather community have also given me the courage to try my hand at writing poems, and while I haven't perfected the art...every so often, I almost get one right. The joy is in the trying.
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Sheila Deeth Mar 26, 2007, 10:34am EDT
At five I liked poems because I knew the rhymes.
At ten I liked to play with words.
At fifteen I could hide my secrets.
At twenty I longed to tell them and a young man courted me.
At twenty-five we both liked poems because we liked to talk.
At thirty; poems? Kids.
Then thirty-five, I tried to teach my children to like poetry.
At forty my son got published before me - a poem and he hates poetry - life's not fair.
At forty-five I struggled to read the AP book with them; is it really that hard?
And at fifty the children are leaving home, but the words are coming back.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 10:39am EDT
Sue (blushing) your words are too generous... but I'll take them! Many thanks.
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Nic P. Mar 26, 2007, 10:40am EDT
This is an excellent offering Ed. Nicely constructed.

I, do not hate poetry...often it goes over my head =)~
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LittleMissSunshine - Shel & Barney Rule L. Mar 26, 2007, 10:40am EDT
I fell in love with Poetry with Shel Silverstein when I was young. But, when I got older I loved "Mad Girl's Love Song" by Sylvia Plath. Poetry can be a wonderful escape. I love writing poetry as well, and wish I were even half as good as the poets I idolize.
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Ian M. Mar 26, 2007, 10:45am EDT
Get the money and girls, yo, yo, yo. Heard?
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Ian M. Mar 26, 2007, 10:48am EDT
I don't hate all rap, by the way, but I've "heard" enough of that.
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Elaine B. Mar 26, 2007, 10:51am EDT
I like poetry and I love Shakespear. I don't hate poetry, I like short poetry. When a poem is too long, I get a little bored. But I can read short poetry anytime. Thanks Ed, for your article.
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simon F. Mar 26, 2007, 11:01am EDT
I've always loved poetry, just hated it when I had to interpret it at school. My all time favourite is Dulce Et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen.
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Kerry (A tree, not a lemon) .. Mar 26, 2007, 11:07am EDT
For me poetry is a textual representation of emotion. To resonate with the reader and in order to respond positivley to what they are reading, I feel they must have some experience with the represented emotion,
Perhaps that is where the love/hate relationship stems. You may read a poem and connect with it completely and feel enlightened or touched in some way, then you read another and think "what the heck was that all about?", which leaves you feeling frustrated or even as if you must be an idiot not to "get it".
If people would begin looking at poetry as they do ice cream- a greater understanding of the "art of poetry" could be achieved. Some like chocolate, some like spumoni and others butter pecan. No person likes every flavor, yet that does not imply a hatred of ice cream and thats perfectly acceptable.
So why is it not acceptable to love one poem and hate another, without having to hate Poetry itself?
I myself write poetry and even a dreaded haiku now and then, some horrible, some passable and some great (in my opinion *grin*). I do not enjoy the poetry of others as a rule though. I find many of them turn my stomach, as I'm sure mine do to others, though for different reasons.
It is all a matter of perspective, individual experience and personal taste.
Love it, hate it or somewhere inbetween poetry is here to stay would be my guess. As long as people feel the need to express some inner part of themselves and have pen, pencil, tablet or keyboard...
Humm..I have once more out thought myself and now must rest my brain for the next battle with bejeweled 2. I have taxed myself with all of this serious thought.
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Pearl 2 Mar 26, 2007, 11:08am EDT
Poetry is the vehicle by which we first learned to love the English language. From the Hickory Dickory Dock childhood nursery rhymes to Shakespeare, I learned to love English as my third language [Tagalog and Ilocano came first].

Without the beauty, the fun, the amazing powers of poetry, I doubt I could have learned this language... or loved it so much that it has virtually replaced my first language. I now THINK in English.

Thanks for reminding me to be thankful once again, Ed.
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J. C. Mar 26, 2007, 11:14am EDT
The poetry of others can sometimes be intimidating, because I don't have the education to undertand it. Which is why I love the indepth commentaries of your poetry, Ed. Not only am I learning to understand your poetry, but that of others as well. I also hope to become a better poet, because of that understanding.

Ten reasons I love poetry:
10) I have always loved words and their power. Mom says that when I was small I would repeat every word I knew, before falling to sleep.
9) I have been writing poetry, since I learned to write. I have some dreadful stuff packed away.
8) When you are the well behaved one of five children attention can run thin, but get a great grade on a poem at school and people are suddenly listening.
7) Emily Dickinson
6) Poe (Proof great poetry need not be light and fluffy or rational.)
5) An English teacher in Junior High who drew a red line through a long sentence and left the note, "Find the right word, and you won't need all this."
4) The ability to convey a world of emotion and beauty on a single page.
3) The exercise it gives the brain.
2) That "aha" moment, when you realize you've never thought of it quite that way before.
1) The ability to touch a soul, and the opportunity to be touched by another's soul.
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Laura Cushing Mar 26, 2007, 11:15am EDT
I hated poets more than poetry.

When I used to read my poetry at open mics and participate in slams, I really couldn't stand poets. Poets are some of the meanest cusses out there. This one venue I went to, it was like they had their own poet maffia...

And talk about concieted. I don't know how everyone's egos fit in the same room.
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Terry J. Mar 26, 2007, 11:18am EDT
I guess poetry means more to some than others.
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Edward Nudelman Mar 26, 2007, 11:19am EDT
Sad Laura. That's just crazy. hubris, hubris, hubris
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Eric D. Goodman Mar 26, 2007, 11:22am EDT
I think part of the problem poetry is experiencing is the same that all good writing is experiencing -- too much outside competition. Poetry and ficton must compete not only with the thousands of selections out there, but also with movies, television and video games.
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Katrina Hall Mar 26, 2007, 11:27am EDT
Thanks to this article, I have, for the first time, realized the common thread that holds all my loves together -poetry, photography, and cooking. The successful poet, I think, doesn't fluff up their poems with extraneous anything - but, like using a macro lens on a camera, finds the exact word to describe an emotion, a mood, a color. A minimum of words, with a maximum of exact description. This is also what a good cook does - simply by smelling an herb, the cook can zero in on the essence of food and whether it will or will not marry well with that herb. many thanks to you, Edward!
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Pat D. Mar 26, 2007, 11:29am EDT
Poetry makes accounting look exciting.
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Alexander Zoltai Mar 26, 2007, 11:47am EDT
Although you're article is good, the range and depth of the responses you got has me really thinking...

~ Alex
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Loretta A Mar 26, 2007, 11:50am EDT
Poetry is the life of all emotions. I have yet to understand how one can live without it. A few well written words can bring up love, lust, tears, anger, and everything else along the way. Re-discovery of certain kinds of poetry has helped me get through a recent life crisis. Bless the poets in the world!!!!!!
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Alexander Zoltai Mar 26, 2007, 11:53am EDT
Cont:
Your article had me "really" thinking, too.
Obviously, what I meant was Really not really.
Hmmm...
Shoulda written a poetic response...

~ Alex
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arlene (no shame in my game) w. Mar 26, 2007, 11:53am EDT
I confess! If I don't really like it a lot, then I hate it and it annoys me. But I love Shell Silverstein's childrens poems.
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Larry H. Mar 26, 2007, 11:57am EDT
I never got into poems much, Don't rmember having to read poems in school. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and poems..
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patrick m. Mar 26, 2007, 11:57am EDT
I don't hate poetry.....i just don't understand it..... ;-)

Another nice article, ed. Is 'ed' short for ed-u-cation? Thats for Ed-u-cate-ing me some more!:-)

:-)
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Fawn M. Mar 26, 2007, 11:58am EDT
I hate poetry because the idea a person tries to say is lost in all those words they use and the symbolism they get pretentious with. I don't think Haiku is poetry. Haikus are good things.
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Sharon R. Mar 26, 2007, 11:59am EDT
My love/hate of poetry began quite young... of course, my mother reading nursery rhymes... my mother singing hymns from her youth group choir book... (some of them written by my aunt)... and then elementary 'language' class.... "I think that I will never see, a poem lovely as a tree"... Then Hiawatha... Robert Frost... Edgar Allen Poe... I was hooked.
I have 'tried' to write poetry from the time I knew poetry. I may not be good. But it is a way to put feelings on paper that cannot be expressed any other way.
I prefer the simple, every day language of poetry. Wordsworth, Tennyson, Whitman, are so deep. But still, sometimes, with troubled mind... there is a soothing rhythm to poetry that calms.
And where else is the 'tick-tock' of alliteration, meter, rhyme, prose, allegory, than in poetry? It flows, like a rippling stream over rocks scintillating in the sunshine. Dropping, suddenly, into a froth raged fall. Eddying a moment before catching its breath and moving on.
Some poetry must be read more than once. Some poetry can be read over and over, with different meaning appearing each read. Some poetry must be taken in tiny bites, slowly chewed and savored, swallowed and regurgitated, before it is fully ripe.
Thank you Ed, for inviting me to read this. I got much from it. Memories of poets I had long forgotten and need to find again. Thank You.
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patrick m. Mar 26, 2007, 12:06pm EDT
ps: Hey, sorry about your dog..... Mine just got diagnosed with a cancer tumor; so I know how you feel. Since you've written so much about yours, wouldn't a eulogy poem be 'helpful' 2 get u thru the loss??? I bet it would b good..... Not a big emotional "i miss my puppy bringing me my paper" sappy thing ....something allegorical .....something sophisticated ......something that evokes the relationship, the respect/unspoken understanding of lifeforms 4 each other.

Justa thought......

:-)
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Alfredo v. Mar 26, 2007, 12:12pm EDT
I do like "poëtic" creations/situations/etc. very much, but after trying for some years, I could not cope - as a reader - with good poëtry. Probably, I'm too lazy, I don't know exactly and I give myself the freedom not needing to know it.

I'm also not a "writer"; I'm a talker, storyteller, who uses written words to be able to share it. That's "my thing", so to speak.

Besides that, from time to time, I write lyrics and I accept it as lyrics, but as poëtry I would not accept it as such.

I'm not complaining; I'm just explaining and sharing.
Thanks to "poëtry", I can do so right now.

Keep going !

Greetings from Amsterdam
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Deanna P. Mar 26, 2007, 12:24pm EDT
I like poetry, the ones I understand. Thats why mine are so simple. lol. This was a great article. thanks for sharing.
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Osofo Addo Mar 26, 2007, 12:32pm EDT
My answer ? A greaat fat No....No I do not hate Poetry..
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Gretchen Lee Bourquin Mar 26, 2007, 12:39pm EDT
I am very fond of poetry, although a good poem is hard to find. Much of it is either pretentious or trite without a lot of middle ground. It is as vast as the ocean.... yes, I know, cliche as all get out. There is a brand of poetry for everyone, I think, and that brand may even change over time, but it's there
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Mariana T. Mar 26, 2007, 12:53pm EDT
I love to read some poetry especially T.S. Eliot - sometimes I don't understand what is being said on one level but somewhere in my brain the words magically embroider themselves into some meaningful and colorful piece. I've written poetry for years but not in any kind of form - just free flowing. I can see why you would like poetry as the process of writing it employs both sides of the brain - left and right. Also, may I take this opportunity to say, Ed, that I've enjoyed your poems. Thank you for making Gather a place where I enjoy interacting! Salud.
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Ryan L. Mar 26, 2007, 12:55pm EDT
10.
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Pearl 2 Mar 26, 2007, 1:00pm EDT
Dear Ed,

After reading your article and all the comments, I felt an envigorating oneness with the poetry-lovers here ...and then I went to read my email. This ditty was one of the first emails I read:


A Woman's Poem

He didn't like the casserole
And he didn't like my cake.
He said my biscuits were too hard...
Not like his mother used to make.
I didn't perk the coffee right
He didn't like the stew,
I didn't mend his socks
The way his mother used to do.
I pondered for an answer
I was looking for a clue.
Then I turned around and smacked the s**t out of him...
Like his mama used to do!



.
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Angela <:3---}~~~~ M. Mar 26, 2007, 1:27pm EDT
i am very picky about the poetry i like it has to touch my sole, i have to feel the words.
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Beryl Singleton Bissell Mar 26, 2007, 1:39pm EDT
I have a fondness for Mary Oliver that exceeds singing words and rhythm that speaks (why I like other poetry).

I love Mary Olivers because I know what she is talking about. And I happen to be enamored of this natural world.
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Keith H S. Mar 26, 2007, 1:39pm EDT
Who put all of his eggs in one bucket

I really dig verse, man
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Shelundra S. Mar 26, 2007, 1:40pm EDT
This is something that I wrote.

Could it be you do not know because you do not grow?
Could it be that we are not understanding because we do not stand for something?
Next to you I stand still, and wait....next yo you I stand still and debate.
To know, or not to know, to wait or debate, one has to know. That in life you must grow.


So in a nut shell I love poetry.
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Jerry Kays Mar 26, 2007, 1:41pm EDT
Edward, only because you asked:

When I was young and in English class, I was not overly impressed (favorably) with what went on. Later I read much of Jack London's books (not poetry) that took my mind where I enjoyed to go. At the same time I read Robert Service's "The Cremation of Sam McGee" and others … I 'loved' them.

Then for the rest of my life I pretty much quit all reading of books … eventually at mid-life I became depressed, then seeking a self cure for that, I took up reading again, but not fiction and not poetry.

Then eventually my 18 year old son was killed. That brought on a very Introspective period where I ran across some really great uplifting poems, mainly of a spiritual nature. I loved those !

Years later I had my own 'spiritual awakening' at which point everything in my life became more esoteric, internal and extremely spiritual … I became a non-stop reader then of all things pertaining to the understanding of just what had happened to me. That required the learning of many words by spending vast amounts of time in the dictionary to better understand what I was reading, much of it very scholarly and mystical, as well from very early time periods when another 'language' was being used.

During that period, years, I ran across many poems of a more spiritual nature that very much impressed me. I even wrote one myself that was spontaneous and from the heart, a form of 'automatic' writing it seemed, in response to a dear and close friend that had lost her daughter in an untimely incident.

One of your earlier commenters mentioned the names of Tagore and Rumi, that reminded me that I was very impressed by both of them also during my more mystical phase, post awakening.

Then many years even later, I read much less (having found what I was after), and now spend more time here on Gather … where I ran across 'poetry' again.

I have tried hard to read some of it, especially when I get requests from those I am connected to here … but try as I might, I do not find much that I like at all.

For most of my latter years, it has seemed quite 'faddish' in certain circles to be a 'poet' … maybe like 'artistry' for some. But I have a keen disdain for those that are pretentious in all of such … and so many seem to me to be so. Especially those that go so out of their way to use obscure special words that have no meaning at all to others that are not doing the very same thing … seemingly to just impress each other.

Some one else mentioned the word 'elitist' as what they feel many 'poets' feel themselves to be … at the very least 'seem' to be to many of 'us'. You yourself a moment ago (in my reading here) used the word 'hubris' consecutively three times in a response to a commenter. I found it difficult to understand whether you were aiming it at her for giving an opinion that you have asked for … or aimed at the people she was referring to. But he word does fit with much of what I have read based upon poetry and the requisite comments on Gather … IMnsHO.

So, being more of a "meat and potatoes' sort of guy, I find little use for 'modern' poetry as I have run across it … and I especially dislike the assumptions made by many involved in it that the likes of myself are just too dense and/or uncouth to understand, let alone appreciate the 'finer' things in life … as if their 'claiming' to do so actually made them 'better' people for it.

Poetry seems to have this 'following' that seems to me to be rather insipid and pretentious, penning one line false platitudes of 'appreciation'.

All of which just seems to go along with our societies seeming need to just fit in and go along, playing roles of following their leaders in some kind of 'political' (or otherwise) 'correctness'. Again, just IMnsHO.

If this/that makes me uncouth, so be it, at least I am honest about it. You did ask.
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Peter, who hasn't changed icons. That's Jason G. Mar 26, 2007, 2:05pm EDT
Poetry's muse sings.
Forever, people have sung.
Singing keeps the soul alive,
So sing, ye poets, sing.

A resounding "10" Ed.
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